Gearing

[Vern]

So after posting in and taking over another thread, i thought i should start a new one.
My rangie runs the msa 5g gearbox, 1.003 trans case, 285/75/16 tyres and 3.54 diffs.
Now car goes great unladen but stick the camper on and it struggles in 4th up inclines.
I'm running 22psi boost (after intercooler) egts maxed at 700 ( generally 680ish)
Now i hit the governor in,
1st 25k ish
2nd 45k ish
3rd 80k
4th 130k run out of steam, didn't get to the governor
5th who knows😊

So i'm looking at going to a 1.222 transcase and a 5R (?) gearbox, which has a taller first and 5th, 4.9?? and 0.728.
( i would sticky the msa ratios but only have my phone so a bit hard for me)

So, my question is, and its directed at those smarter than me who can do nice graphs and stuff, what are the ultimate ratios for these engines, what suits its rev range and torque band?

Cheers

[pop058]

(newby) Mod hat on,

Gents, I have merged some posts from another thread as requested into Vern's gearing thread. Being new to this moderation thing, all did not go exactly according to plan it seams. It appears that Ancient Mariner posts all the info. The technical content however has been retained, just the original poster's information is a little vague.

My apologies for the delay and confusion. Please PM me or report any other bits that may need a little attention in regard to this.

tks Paul

[Ancient Mariner]

I run a msa 5 speed

What are the ratios?

Don't know, the ratios are in the grubbs thread, from memory box is a 5G?

5.788
2.998
1.564
1.000
0.776

Thats from memory (don't know how to cut and paste with tap a talk)

MSA5G,
5.788:1
2.998:1
1.594:1
1.000:1
0.776:1
5.798:1

From here (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1846188-post23.html)

What transfer ratio are you running? 1.003?

Steve

Thanks steveG i was close.
Yeah 1.003.
Better intercooler will help i think. Tassie is a hilly place ya know��


Thanks steveG i was close.
Yeah 1.003.
Better intercooler will help i think. Tassie is a hilly place ya know��

Yeah - and meant to be experienced at a relaxed pace ;)

More torque is always going to help, but a different transfer ratio might give you something that would pull 4th to over 90kmh, while still giving you a reasonable cruise RPM (I wouldn't want anything higher than 2200 which is what my County is at ~100kmh with the LT95).
Having to drop down to 75kmh like you've got now isn't nice, but being able to maintain 90++ towing on a decent hill would be pretty reasonable IMO.
I think I'm a around 90 on the governor in third with my setup and find it pretty reasonable while towing.
If you find the extra torque later down the track, you can always throw the 1.003 back in.
Need to know what size tyres you're going to be running to do the calcs though....

Steve

Running 285/75/16 tyres. Hit about 110 in 4th on the governor, haven't hit the governor in 5th yet. I was thinking of going to 1.113 or whatever ratio it is, but hey, could always go a few more nm. At the moment its not a lot different pulling the camper than the amarok, but thats twin turbo etc....


Running 285/75/16 tyres. Hit about 110 in 4th on the governor, haven't hit the governor in 5th yet. I was thinking of going to 1.113 or whatever ratio it is, but hey, could always go a few more nm. At the moment its not a lot different pulling the camper than the amarok, but thats twin turbo etc....

Pretty good for a 25y/o engine thats likely never had the head off :)

Just threw all your info in an online gear ratio calculator...
1.003 transfer, 3.54 diffs, 285/75-16 tyres, 3200rpm - and something doesn't seem right compared to the speeds you're getting.

Here are the gear and roadspeeds from the calculator, with your actuals in brackets:
1 ==> 24.48
2 ==> 47.27
3 ==> 88.91 (75)
4 ==> 141.72 (110)
5 ==>182.63

Using this calculator: Gear Ratio Calculator (http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html)

Steve

Wonder if mines governed lower?
Economy is 16.73l/100k thats loaded and towing.

3 rd= 3242 rpm=90kph
4 th= 3164 rpm=140 kph
5 th= 3156 rpm=180 kph :Rolling:

Noel

So pushed it without the trailer to 80k in 3rd holding it on the governor

Speedo or GPS? If its GPS you could adjust up the high idle for about 88 kph in 3rd on the flat or best get someone with a digital photo tach to check it

Noel

Gps calibrated speedo, and gps


3 rd= 3242 rpm=90kph
4 th= 3164 rpm=140 kph
5 th= 3156 rpm=180 kph :Rolling:

Noel
Can't remember but aren't these things supposed to be governed at 3600? 3-4 up hill towing is terrible

As far as i remember 4bd1 3200 and the T 3000 rpm.I would think there would be no problem at 3200 my 4H is 3200

Noel

Mine (ex Stage1 NA engine) is ~3200. I calibrated the dash tacho using an optical tacho and I'm getting 3200 flat out in 3rd.

Damien - perhaps you're getting confused with either the 4be1 which is around 3500 (shorter stroke than 4bd1), or I recall Bush65 commenting more than once that the 4bd1t was OK for around 3600 (but really needed balancing properly to operate at that RPM).

After having a decent drive in mine today for the first time in a while, and then doing some calcs I think a 1.2 transfer would be just about perfect for you. Forgetting about your super-low 1st gear, the remaining 4 would be just slightly higher geared (lower RPM) than my LT95. Being intercooled and with higher boost than mine I'd say you've pull them easily.

5th gear 100kmh @2100rpm (I get around 100@2200 in 4th which is very driveable)
Your 4th gear 75kmh@2000 and 100kmh@2700 (I'm governed to 95kmh in 3rd, so can't quite make the 100/110kmh traffic speed if I can't pull 4th).

I think mine is as good as you can get with the LT95, but I do find that 1st is a bit high when towing, would like to be able to keep up with traffic when I can't quite pull top gear, and it would be nice to drop a few more RPM in top gear for cruising.
With a 1.2 transfer you'll have all those things covered and I reckon it will be AWESOME.

Steve

Steve


As far as i remember 4bd1 3200 and the T 3000 rpm.I would think there would be no problem at 3200 my 4H is 3200

Noel
Industrial version n/a motors as fitted to the landys are governed at 3200 but T types and n/a truck motors are 3500 I believe. These are identified by the humped rocker covers.

My apology to vern if 3000 incorrect I was sure I had read it some where and it seemed to gel more with the speed he is getting:( As I have CRAFT all posts should be treated with suspicion:

100k would be 3602 rpm

Noel

I think your right steveG, without the camper its great but feels to tall when towing, think i will track down a 1.113 or 1.2 case. By the way, i use 1st all the time, 2nd your riding the clutch a little to take off.


Mine (ex Stage1 NA engine) is ~3200. I calibrated the dash tacho using an optical tacho and I'm getting 3200 flat out in 3rd.

Damien - perhaps you're getting confused with either the 4be1 which is around 3500 (shorter stroke than 4bd1), or I recall Bush65 commenting more than once that the 4bd1t was OK for around 3600 (but really needed balancing properly to operate at that RPM).

After having a decent drive in mine today for the first time in a while, and then doing some calcs I think a 1.2 transfer would be just about perfect for you. Forgetting about your super-low 1st gear, the remaining 4 would be just slightly higher geared (lower RPM) than my LT95. Being intercooled and with higher boost than mine I'd say you've pull them easily.

5th gear 100kmh @2100rpm (I get around 100@2200 in 4th which is very driveable)
Your 4th gear 75kmh@2000 and 100kmh@2700 (I'm governed to 95kmh in 3rd, so can't quite make the 100/110kmh traffic speed if I can't pull 4th).

I think mine is as good as you can get with the LT95, but I do find that 1st is a bit high when towing, would like to be able to keep up with traffic when I can't quite pull top gear, and it would be nice to drop a few more RPM in top gear for cruising.
With a 1.2 transfer you'll have all those things covered and I reckon it will be AWESOME.

Steve

Steve
I need to do the figures on rpm @ 100 in 4th and 5th with the 1.003 and 1.222 transcase, to see the difference. Been mostly driving in 4th when towing, seems ok.
Shopping list so far is water to air i/c, 1.222 transcase with atb, full airbag rear end, and then install tanks for longer range and better tyres. Need to sort it for a 3month top end trip next year.
Need to replace engine fuel lines, got a pin hole which sprayed the engine bay with diesel, temporary patch hopefully gets us home.

Very happy with this turbo, good recommendation dougal.

Steve, will come visit you in a month or so, take it for a spin and see what you think.

I've got a spreadsheet made for that kind of thing.

100km/h:
4th w. 1.003:1 ratio: 2259rpm
5th w. 1.003:1 ratio: 1753rpm
4th w. 1.222:1 ratio: 2752rpm
5th w. 1.222:1 ratio: 2136rpm

Here's the graph showing 1.222:1 in dashed line; 1:003:1 in solid line.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

What size tyre is this with?


What size tyre is this with?


285/75r16, I read that's what you're running. FWIW, I found the 1.003:1 better in my thing after trying the 1.222:1 - but if you're towing a lot of weight frequently I think the 1.222:1 might be a better choice. It would come down to your engine and how you drive it. I've found that I rarely rev my thing past 2300rpm, so long gears are what I need. If you start making boost further up the rev range maybe that would change things.

Basically, I don't think you can calculate which case is better; you just have to try the options until one fits with you, your vehicle and your usage. That's my 2c anyway.

Dervish, what size tyres are you running though?
Turbo or non turbo?


Dervish, what size tyres are you running though?
Turbo or non turbo?

I'm on 235/85r16s, turbo. The difference in RPM caused by changing tyres is minimal unless you make drastic changes.

285/75r16 (dotted), 235/85r16 (solid) [MSA-5G, 1.003:1 LT230, 3.54 diffs]:

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/ScreenShot2015-01-14at81618am_zps70924600.png

I think i will still change ratios as this car will be towing a camper mainly.
After the last few days however i may even scrap the whole landrover ordeal��


I think i will still change ratios as this car will be towing a camper mainly.
After the last few days however i may even scrap the whole landrover ordeal��

Sounds like your recent Tasmanian episode has put a strain on the LR Isuzu love affair.

Sorry to hear of your car problems, sure way to spoil your holidays. Hope things start to look up for you.

Things will look up when i roll safely into my driveway without breaking a second shaft.
Had some 4wdriving and beach driving planned next, now just putting around like a typical tourist��


I've got a spreadsheet made for that kind of thing.

100km/h:
4th w. 1.003:1 ratio: 2259rpm
5th w. 1.003:1 ratio: 1753rpm
4th w. 1.222:1 ratio: 2752rpm
5th w. 1.222:1 ratio: 2136rpm

Here's the graph showing 1.222:1 in dashed line; 1:003:1 in solid line.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
Dervish, anychance you can punch the 1.222 figures in but with a 315/75/16 tyre?


Dervish, anychance you can punch the 1.222 figures in but with a 315/75/16 tyre?

Sure, here's one with your current setup in dotted lines; 315/75r16 and 1.222 LT230 in solid. The proposed gearing puts your second gear virtually exactly where my first is.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/ScreenShot2015-01-16at84250pm_zpse45892d9.png

Thanks, i'm just looking to improve my 4th gear, make it more usable when towing. A 1.1 transcase would be ideal, but will trial a 1.2 and see how it goes, might see if i can get a good runner, stick it in, see how it goes, then build it up.
Or find an msa box with better ratios

I may even look at going the 1.2 t/case and a msa-5a (or mxa-5r) gearbox which has a taller 1st and 5th (4.976? and 0.728)(all other ratios same as 5g box), once again would be great to know rpm on these (285 tyre)


I may even look at going the 1.2 t/case and a msa-5a (or mxa-5r) gearbox which has a taller 1st and 5th (4.976? and 0.728)(all other ratios same as 5g box), once again would be great to know rpm on these (285 tyre)

TBH I think the taller first is irrelevant; from the looks of it you wouldn't use it on the road anyway. The taller 5th suits the 1.222:1 much better though.

100km/h:
4th w. 1.003:1 ratio (current): 2259rpm
5th w. 1.003:1 ratio (current): 1753rpm
4th w. 1.222:1 ratio & MSA-5R: 2752rpm
5th w. 1.222:1 ratio & MSA-5R: 2004rpm

Here you go; your current setup (dotted) vs. 285s, MSA-5R, 1.222:1 TC (solid).

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/ScreenShot2015-01-17at25118pm_zps900ea59c.png


Mods: I feel like we've derailed this thread; perhaps this discussion could be moved to one of the gearing threads?

Agree when i stop i'm going to start a new thread and see if we can merge it all

Dump it in my build thread as its all over the place now :D Good for the number of views.

Mods, can you please merge to my fearing thread?

[Vern]

Ok, so am getting back into this car.
Current gearing is as below. I found 4th was to tall for towing on hills and 3rd to low. 105987 and then this is what i am looking at doing with a different gearbox and tranfercase.
105989
So for the brains trust, whats peoples thoughts?😊

[Vern]

Oops noticed it was in mph, now in km.
106058old 106059new

[Adrian18]

Interestingly using the 1.222 trans the gearing is still taller than the landcruiser v8 ....i find 1.22 ok 1.1 to tall towing ect .....could someone please make 1:1.1 gears☺

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[Vern]

1.1:1 would solve all my problems and save me some coin.
Will get the msa5r this weekend, rebuild the 1.192, then after easter will fit it all up

[Adrian18]

1.192 is that the 23d trans you were talking about on fb ....how'd you find out it was 1.192 if so

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[Vern]

Nah its a 29c that i have. Came from an isuzu county as did the 23b.