Added a Sand Switch to Traction Control

[DiscoKym]

After adding the CDL lever and reading up a bit I decided to add the what I call Sand Switch. From what I read traction control and ABS can be a bugger on sand driving.

As we all know on the 1999 - 2001 Disco when you add the CDL lever it disables/reduces traction control and ABS.

I put in a switch to make the SLABS think it is still running with an open centre diff. So getting the use of both modes. I just hope the speaker wire I used is heavy enough? I figured it was just a trigger wire so low current, when I got to the SLABS the wire is substantial thickness??????? Holding the wire while it is running shows no warming of the wire.

New sand switch, Hazard switch with blank cover with S engraved in it.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/discovery-2/90026d1422663125-added-sand-switch-traction-control-img_1009.jpg

Connection to the SLABS.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/discovery-2/90027d1422663138-added-sand-switch-traction-control-img_1010.jpg

After posting this I thought I could have used a momentary switch and just hold it in while starting??? Oh well I can set and forget... :-)

[CU55TM Disco]

Is this also applicable to D2A??? As id lke to be able to Disable the TC sometimes.

[DiscoKym]

Not that I am aware of from what I have read.

The 2A has the SLABS reprogrammed to not turn off TC with CDL.

Anyone else know? Pipe in guys..

[twr7cx]

TC works on my D2a with factory fitted CDL both when engaged and disengaged.

TC is fantastic once your have a set of helical gear LSDs fitted.

[ozscott]

Everyone has a view on ETC in sand. Having driven extensively in sand including towing in the sand with just ETC for years and then with CDL fitted and i love the 2 combined in sand. I have also used it with just CDL before the Slabs wiring mod and i have a d1 with just CDL.

Cheers

[bob10]

From what I read traction control and ABS can be a bugger on sand driving.

As we all know on the 1999 - 2001 Disco when you add the CDL lever it disables/reduces traction control and ABS.


:-)
Actually, no on both counts. Go for a drive on sand. It may surprise you, I have never been let down, and my D2 has gotten me out of situations my poor driving got me into. I will quote the instructions given to me with my CDL kit. Bob


": The centre diff lock is operated by pushing the right hand lever [ next to HI/LO lever] forward, when the diff lock light on the dash illuminates the diff lock is engaged, this lever can be engaged either when the vehicle is stationary, or in motion [slow] when it is engaged as above the traction control is still functional. If the engine is switched off and restarted while the diff lock is engaged the traction control will no longer operate . when the diff lock is no longer needed pull the right hand lever rearward again and when the diff lock light goes out, the diff lock has disengaged. Please note if the abs/traction control has been disabled while in diff lockthe engine will need to be switched off and restarted to enable ABS operation."


And that is exactly how I find it after quite a lot of sand driving.

[scarry]

^^^^^^^^what he said

I had three D2's over the years,one was a D2a,did a lot of sand driving,never had an issue with TC.

My son's Puma recently had the TC/ABS disabled due to a faulty wheel sensor,while on Fraser island.
The vehicle was hopeless in the sand compared to when the TC/ABS was working correctly.

[sierrafery]

Is this also applicable to D2A??? As id lke to be able to Disable the TC sometimes.

It's the same for manual or auto, the difference is between facelift and non-facelift modells... what you want is the opposite of what the OP did cos he inserted a switch on the diff-lock switch circuit to interrupt it while the diff is locked so the SLABS ''thinks'' is not locked and keep the TC at full capacity... if you want to disable the TC you'll have to do the other way around to switch an earth to the SLABS on the diff-lock circuit to trick it that the diff is locked while it isn't and inhibit the TC...see attachment

[Hastykiwi]

^^^^^^^^what he said

I had three D2's over the years,one was a D2a,did a lot of sand driving,never had an issue with TC.

My son's Puma recently had the TC/ABS disabled due to a faulty wheel sensor,while on Fraser island.
The vehicle was hopeless in the sand compared to when the TC/ABS was working correctly.

Not speaking for you, but the D2a Tc was less aggressive than the earlier D2's, so there may be circumstances where it is not so noticeable. Having tested a 2000 D2 extensively in sand (WA) with CDL lever added, I have found in limited circumstances, that TC can be an issue. Most of the time it isn't, BUT if having to get up a long sand hill, at speed, with and uneven surface, and limited acceleration space, TC can inhibit acceleration and maintenance of momentum. This is about the only time I have had to restart the car and get rid of TC, leaving it with CDL and open diffs. Otherwise, early D2 with TC and CdL = weapon!!

cheers
Nick

[DiscoKym]

yes I suppose I should have mentioned it's to turn TC & ABS on and off when starting.

Much easier than moving the lever in and out of lock to start the car.

I'm using at the moment while the front driveshaft is out so the TC & ABS remains on as usual.

[MR LR]

Not speaking for you, but the D2a Tc was less aggressive than the earlier D2's, so there may be circumstances where it is not so noticeable. Having tested a 2000 D2 extensively in sand (WA) with CDL lever added, I have found in limited circumstances, that TC can be an issue. Most of the time it isn't, BUT if having to get up a long sand hill, at speed, with and uneven surface, and limited acceleration space, TC can inhibit acceleration and maintenance of momentum. This is about the only time I have had to restart the car and get rid of TC, leaving it with CDL and open diffs. Otherwise, early D2 with TC and CdL = weapon!!

cheers
Nick
I second this, whilst in the perfect world, with the correct tyre pressures, TC and CDL is flawless, the reality CAN very occasionally be somewhat different. D2's don't habe CTIS, so to say "your tyre pressures are wrong, that's why TC set your brakes on fire and got you bogged", can be a flawed argument, conditions change... I know I sometimes prefer driving on sand without it, but I learnt without it ;)

And that is why a switch is a good option...

[discorevy]

Not speaking for you, but the D2a Tc was less aggressive than the earlier D2's, so there may be circumstances where it is not so noticeable. Having tested a 2000 D2 extensively in sand (WA) with CDL lever added, I have found in limited circumstances, that TC can be an issue. Most of the time it isn't, BUT if having to get up a long sand hill, at speed, with and uneven surface, and limited acceleration space, TC can inhibit acceleration and maintenance of momentum. This is about the only time I have had to restart the car and get rid of TC, leaving it with CDL and open diffs. Otherwise, early D2 with TC and CdL = weapon!!

cheers
Nick

^^^^^^^^ what he said , long uneven sand hill with a D2, much better without tc , plenty of sand in sandgroper land, by the time the brake has been applied to spinning wheel the car has already moved another few metres to where that wheel could have had traction, if the brake wasn't applied in the meantime sapping power to maintain required momentum, in other situations tc works well,
Cheers

[iPom]

Early D2 SLABS/TC was programmed to work without the CDL - Hence the somewhat aggressive nature at times.

In the later D2a the SLABS was re-programmed to work with CDL.

Myself, Offtrack and others have fitted the later re-programmed SLABS unit to our pre-facelift D2's, for around $100 and an hour or so time it's a good modification. It has certainly improved the 'drivability' off road and IMHO you will find that the TC will not be working against you. I have spent a considerable amount of time driving in the sand on Teerwah Beach just south of Fraser Island and I would certainly rather have TC than not.


As Twr7cx has said, the best set up is with helical gear LSD diffs (Ashcroft ATB for example).

Dave

[NobbyTD5]

IPom
great bit of info
I mainly drive on sand in a CDL upgraded 2001 D2 and like the idea of CDL & moderate TC
Is there a discussion on how to do this swap somewhere or even better a photo tutorial. I am wondering how hard it is?
will any D2a Slabs ECU do the trick ? need anything else?


Anyone got a suitable SLAB's unit !


cheers
Nobby

[iPom]

Nobby, this thread started by OffTrack covers the change over to the later SLABS ECU.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/135178-slabs-ecu-replacement.html

Ebay, a wrecker or the AULRO Markets will source you a unit. I, like OffTrack, sourced one from the US. I was in a hurry and couldn't find one in Oz at the time.

I paid $100 + shipping. You will need a Nanocom to load up your settings, easy to do.

Dave

[ozscott]

Towing in sand is certainly assisted by combination of both. I could have left mine selectable on off etc but after testing decided it was better on all the time. As i say even peops with a lot of sand driving will have differing views on this. I recall an extensive test in a major mag a few years ago and it too concluded that when comparing the same vehicles ETC on all 4 wheels in sand was better than open diffs only including dune climbing. I dont rely on that but rather my experience. I have towed well over 2 tonn in deep sand and etc with the v8 grunt was a very good thing.

Cheers

Cheers

[iPom]

As you say Ozscott, it's a very subjective matter, I, like you, prefer TC on all the time, especially with the updated SLABS ECU.

[Hastykiwi]

IPom
great bit of info
I mainly drive on sand in a CDL upgraded 2001 D2 and like the idea of CDL & moderate TC
Is there a discussion on how to do this swap somewhere or even better a photo tutorial. I am wondering how hard it is?
will any D2a Slabs ECU do the trick ? need anything else?


Anyone got a suitable SLAB's unit !


cheers
Nobby

IMHO I wouldn't change it. The point I was making was that the instances where I would turn TC off were extremely limited, basically only in certain circumstances in sand, and as other have said, just adjusting tyre pressure could also be a fix. In all other situations, dirt, rock etc i reckon the early TC with CDL is far superior to a D2a. Think of it this way, if your in a situation where you think Tc is inhibiting you, you have a couple of options available to overcome it. Alternatively, if you change the ECU, you lose all of the benefits, for a gain in a very limited set of circumstances.

cheers
Nick

[twr7cx]

Not speaking for you, but the D2a Tc was less aggressive than the earlier D2's

The later model SLABS ECU's are available from the USA for cheap. You can upgrade to the newer revised TC settings that way.

[discorevy]

while obviously a subjective matter , I would think the ultimate combination to be lsd rear, variably intrusive tc (any wizards ?) , low tyre pressures, and an experienced driver would get up all but the steepest uneven sand hill (not forgetting sand temperature ) . However the only thing I would tow that was well over 2 tonne would be an operating hovercraft:o
towing well over 2 tonne , deep sand = deep s%*# ,
I know this from retreiving tourists from the local beach who thought that having an off road caravan / heavy camper trailer meant that they could go through deep soft hot sand

[iPom]

For a $100 (As Twr7cx said, maybe cheaper from the US), I'd say buy a revised ECU and test it out yourself. It's a simple install and very little to change with a Nanocom (Mainly SLS settings).

If you don't like it, you simply sell it on and reinstall your old SLABS ECU.

As I've said before it is a subjective matter and each to there own.

Dave

[ozscott]

I didn't say towing over 2 tonn was easy or for anyone not utterly familiar with the area and conditions but it can be done. Stock lsd's are a bit of a waste of time versus lockers or etc or Ashcroft ATB sensing diffs.

Cheers

[Hastykiwi]

The later model SLABS ECU's are available from the USA for cheap. You can upgrade to the newer revised TC settings that way.

I wouldn't dream of it. The more aggressive algorithms are by far a benefit overall. Just a couple of sand situations where you have to think again.

NIck

[discorevy]

I didn't say towing over 2 tonn was easy or for anyone not utterly familiar with the area and conditions but it can be done. Stock lsd's are a bit of a waste of time versus lockers or etc or Ashcroft ATB sensing diffs.

Cheers

May be wrong , but I thought ashcroft atb was a torsen type LSD , I wouldn't bother with clutch type
unless someone came up with a hybrid type similar to those found in bitso****ees

[Tombie]

Everyone seems to be forgetting in all of this..

Variability in brake choice

If you have cheap arse pads or crap rotors, your fluid is aged etc etc etc

Or if you have hard metal pads, slotted rotors, soft pads...

Way too many variables....

I've seen TC do nothing in a vehicle with high temp pads and stock rotors because they couldnt bite down...

[iPom]

DBA 4X4 Survival Series rotors with Bendix 4X4 pads (recommended by you Mike I think) with less than 3K on them, Castrol React DOT 4 Brake Fluid - flushed and filled when I fitted the rotors, Terrafirma +50mm stainless steel brake lines, calipers overhauled, all in good order.

I rest my case ........

[Tombie]

DBA 4X4 Survival Series rotors with Bendix 4X4 pads (recommended by you Mike I think) with less than 3K on them, Castrol React DOT 4 Brake Fluid - flushed and filled when I fitted the rotors, Terrafirma +50mm stainless steel brake lines, calipers overhauled, all in good order.

I rest my case ........

Nice combo... ;)

[iPom]

Cheers Tombie, works really well.

You are absolutely correct in the observation regarding the state of play with the vehicles braking system.

Certainly overlooked by many regarding how their Traction Control is performing.

[3doug6]

When I get around to putting a CDL lever in I'll probably put a switch in for those dirt roads with lots of bumpy rocks. I've noticed the TC charging up and attempting to work often when I'm driving at a relatively high speed (2nd+ high or 3rd+ low). And since I'm driving slow enough to not lose control just seems unnecessary since I'm not going to stop. Hence I see it as unnecessary wear and tear on the system. Sometimes the light will be lit for 50 m or so (kudos to the responsiveness of the system).

I've not done much sand so I can't really comment on that.

[Hastykiwi]

When I get around to putting a CDL lever in I'll probably put a switch in for those dirt roads with lots of bumpy rocks. I've noticed the TC charging up and attempting to work often when I'm driving at a relatively high speed (2nd+ high or 3rd+ low). And since I'm driving slow enough to not lose control just seems unnecessary since I'm not going to stop. Hence I see it as unnecessary wear and tear on the system. Sometimes the light will be lit for 50 m or so (kudos to the responsiveness of the system).

I've not done much sand so I can't really comment on that.

Absolutely would not do that. First if u lock CDL u will find it will reduce the incidence of the TC activating. Second, with no TC you will also have no ABS, which might be useful on that sort of surface.

cheers
Nick

[EddyEddys]

Is all this talk of sandswicthes making anyone else hungry?

[bob10]

May be wrong , but I thought ashcroft atb was a torsen type LSD , I wouldn't bother with clutch type
unless someone came up with a hybrid type similar to those found in bitso****ees


This may help. For me, Maxidrive rear locker, Quaife LSD in the front. At least then you have a 4WD. Bob


Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/limited-slip-differentials.html)