Any have a Pellet Fire?

[BigBlackDog]

We are looking at getting a pellet fire for our place. Would like a wood fire but the house isn't really compatible. Don't like the heat from the heat pump and to get the whole house comfortably warm in winter costs a fortune. Went and had a look the other day at some, they seem to put out plenty of heat, clean, easy. It's about winter temps here at the moment so good time to look!
Wondering if anyone here has any experience living with them or know anyone that does? Just after advice before I break out e hard earned like to be over informed

Rod

[LandyAndy]

What is a pellet fire????
Perhaps a link.
Cheers
Andrew

[loneranger]

Never heard of a pellet fire before.

From Google:

So what is a Pellet Heater (Stove) ?

On the outside, a pellet heater looks just like any other combustion heater, it's what's inside that makes all the difference. Pellet stoves burn recycled material at a low combustion rate by reducing the fuel load whereas a wood heater controls combustion by reducing oxygen (air control). So in fact wood and pellet heaters actually work the opposite way to each other.
Rather than burning chunks of wood, a pellet stove creates warmth by burning small wood pellets, which burn efficiently because they are so dense. They are a recycled byproduct of sawmills, so they are certainly a sustainable alternative to cutting down trees. Pellet fuel is also know as bio-fuel or bio-energy. The source of sawdust (harvested trees) is renewable and because the sawdust is waste, pellet fuel used for heating is great for our environment and our economy.
Pellet stoves don't take up a lot of space, they are much more compact than their old-timely counterparts. A small flame is visible in the center of the unit, which provides a room with a warm and cozy glow. If you prefer a more traditional look, find a unit with a large viewing glass and add ceramic logs to emphasize the flames and make your stove look more like a traditional wood burning stove.
The auger motor, convection fan, exhaust fan and electronics of a pellet stove run on a small amount electricity (around 100 watts), so it should be located near a 240-volt outlet but can operative on battery backup units if required. Pellet stoves may be purchased as inserts that fit into an existing fireplace or a purpose built cabinet that resembles a fire place. Other freestanding versions convect hot air directly into the room by means of a fan and radiate some heat as well. Hydronic Pellet heaters (boilers) create hot water that can be distributed by plumbing around a home connecting radiator panels where needed or in a concrete slab floor.


The search results seem to indicate they're mainly used in Tasmania.

[BigBlackDog]

Haha here you go Pellet (http://www.pftas.com.au/pellet/)

Essentially they burn compressed sawdust pellets, the fire is controlled like a fuel fire, where a motor speed sets how much fuel goes in the fire to control heat. Very clean burning, nice heat. Not cheap, hence the shout out for opinions

[BMKal]

No Andrew. You don't burn chook pellets in them ........... Or rabbit pellets. :no2::no2::no2::no2:

We looked at a pellet fire as one option for the house in South Arm. Bloody expensive.:o:o

So far, have left the off-peak electrical heating in there. It does the job and is probably no more expensive to run than anything else. I'm going to have to think about something for the shed when we move down there though. The shed there is about the same size as the one here in Kalgoorlie, and if I spend anything like a similar amount of time out there tinkering around, am going to need some heating. I'm thinking a good "arken ****en". :D:D:D

[korg20000bc]

We are looking at getting a pellet fire for our place. Would like a wood fire but the house isn't really compatible. Don't like the heat from the heat pump and to get the whole house comfortably warm in winter costs a fortune. Went and had a look the other day at some, they seem to put out plenty of heat, clean, easy. It's about winter temps here at the moment so good time to look!
Wondering if anyone here has any experience living with them or know anyone that does? Just after advice before I break out e hard earned like to be over informed

Rod
Yes, "Heat Pump" is a clever bit of marketing for what the rest of the world knows as a reverse-cycle air-conditioner. It is a cooling device that can be used to heat in a less-efficient mode.
I think the Aurora power company is very pleased with the up-take of this technology. Money, money, money.

Regarding the pellet heater, I have no experience but I am a bit leery of using special fuel heaters- you never know what the fuel prices are going to do.
We have a wood heater and heat-distribution ducting- which works well.
My preferred heater would be something that you can burn nearly anything in- something like a pot-belly stove.

[Tote]

These grain fueled heaters are also an interesting concept if you have access to cheap feed grain. Similar concept to the pellet heater but grain may be easier to source than wood pellets.


Home page (http://www.wheater.net.au/)

Regards,
Tote

[Rurover]

Don't have a pellet fire, but I know someone who does, and they're pretty happy with it.
The pellets are imported from Canada I think, l but I know at least one timber miller here (Mount Gambier) is seriously thinking of installing a pellet press to manufacture locally.

He plans to export the majority of his pellets as there's a big market in Europe where they use them in bulk to feed boilers used in power generation. (They can be substituted for coal in fact as a more environmentally friendly alternative).

However this feller is also keen to sell pellets into the local market if there's enough demand.

One handy thing about pellet fires is that they can be computer controlled, so you can used home automation devices to switch them on and off remotely, or by using a timer.

Alan

[BigBlackDog]

Rurover that seems a bit odd to get them from Canada? Maybe there is simply not enough supply in Australia. I have a price list showing pellets from Geelong and NSW, and the local people have just recently started doing them in Tas through a local mill.
I suspect there will be increasing limitations on conventional burning wood in populated areas due to air quality concerns, these seem like a good alternative, very popular overseas, I don't see sawdust being in short supply any time soon.

[Jojo]

Those pellet heaters are really common here, a few mates of mine have installed pellet burners instead of oil powered ones. Reason is, the fuel is relatively cheap, more expensive than logs though, but way cheaper than oil, gas or electricity for direct radiation heaters. Heat pumps, on the other hand, are more efficient, though.
It all comes down to what your requirements and conditions are. If you have access to cheap fire wood (i.e. own forest), go for a log burner. You will have to do some work, but see it as training and exercise (fire wood warms you twice...). Electricity driving a heat pump, coupled to a warm water system is the most elegant option, as it is clean, easy to use and very efficient. Air-to-air heat pumps are not my cup of tea for several reasons, but will work just as well. In the right location you might even be able to produce your own electricity for powering the system. Gas and oil are not really any viable options these days.
As for pellets, these are clean burning, easy to store, use and handle, relatively harmless to the environment, but the burner will need some maintenance and regular checks. If you have a pellet oven it is just like any log burning device but with a basket for the pellets inside the chamber instead of a grate for the logs. Some models can probably be fitted with an automated feeding system for the pellets, so you won't need to fill up yourself to maintain the burn. In my opinion, pellets make sense if you can get hold of them relatively easily and at an adequate price. If you would have to import them from around the globe they make no sense at all, IMHO. Here in our neck of the woods (pun intended) pellets are a byproduct of the forest industry and cost next to nothing (well, almost), mainly due to the fact that they aren't taxed as (heating) fuel. I am only waiting for the day when some smartarse politician comes up with the idea of draining some tax money out of this business as well. I am sure it is just a matter of time, waiting until a reasonable amount of people have gone pellets and it makes sense to tighten the taxation screw on them :mad:.
Disclaimer: I have a heat pump (ground source) coupled to the warm water system for our basic heating purposes and additional log burning ovens to supplement the system if needed. I am not too fond of pellets myself.
Drop me a line if you need more detailed advice.
Cheers

[Tank]

Would ask you to consider would you like to live next door to your wood heater, you wouldn't mind breathing in Toxic, Carcinogenic emissions so as you can enjoy your heater.
A wood heater draws air from outside the house to fuel the fire, up to 40% of what goes up your chimney on cold air inversion nights (most nights in winter) is drawn back into your house for all to breathe. One wood heater in a 24 hour period will produce the same volume of smoke as 100,000 cigarettes, 40% of that SMOKE (which has the same Carcinogenic compounds) will come back into the house to fuel the fire, the other 60% you will share with your neighbours.
Launceston has the highest Air pollution in Australia as a direct result of wood heaters, something to read other that the lying blurb published by the bastards that want to take your money while telling you how good these are for the environment and your health, sounds very familiar to the Tobacco companies back in the 50's and 60's, Regards Frank.







We are looking at getting a pellet fire for our place. Would like a wood fire but the house isn't really compatible. Don't like the heat from the heat pump and to get the whole house comfortably warm in winter costs a fortune. Went and had a look the other day at some, they seem to put out plenty of heat, clean, easy. It's about winter temps here at the moment so good time to look!
Wondering if anyone here has any experience living with them or know anyone that does? Just after advice before I break out e hard earned like to be over informed

Rod

[Tank]

Sorry just realised it WAS a quote from GOOGLE. Would have been paid for it's position on Google though





This quote sounds familiar.
Quote: "The source of sawdust (harvested trees) is renewable and because the sawdust is waste, pellet fuel used for heating is great for our environment and our economy."



First up the saw dust comes from trees, SHOW me anywhere in the world that trees are being grown quicker, or at the same pace than they are being cut down.
Australia is 35 years behind catching up to equalise cut down/grown/ renewable resource, that is if the rate of destruction remains no worse than it is now.
Australia is the third worst land clearer in the world behind Indonesia and Brasil.
So Renewable resources don't even get a look in.
In the next 10 years or so you won't be able to afford to burn wood as most will be used to produce Ethanol.
What doesn't make sense to me is: First we cut down a tree, which absorbs Carbon Dioxide and produces OXYGEN, which all things on this Planet need to SURVIVE, it's like "going to war for peace" or "screwing for virginity", Regards Frank.











Never heard of a pellet fire before.

From Google:

So what is a Pellet Heater (Stove) ?

On the outside, a pellet heater looks just like any other combustion heater, it's what's inside that makes all the difference. Pellet stoves burn recycled material at a low combustion rate by reducing the fuel load whereas a wood heater controls combustion by reducing oxygen (air control). So in fact wood and pellet heaters actually work the opposite way to each other.
Rather than burning chunks of wood, a pellet stove creates warmth by burning small wood pellets, which burn efficiently because they are so dense. They are a recycled byproduct of sawmills, so they are certainly a sustainable alternative to cutting down trees. Pellet fuel is also know as bio-fuel or bio-energy. The source of sawdust (harvested trees) is renewable and because the sawdust is waste, pellet fuel used for heating is great for our environment and our economy.
Pellet stoves don't take up a lot of space, they are much more compact than their old-timely counterparts. A small flame is visible in the center of the unit, which provides a room with a warm and cozy glow. If you prefer a more traditional look, find a unit with a large viewing glass and add ceramic logs to emphasize the flames and make your stove look more like a traditional wood burning stove.
The auger motor, convection fan, exhaust fan and electronics of a pellet stove run on a small amount electricity (around 100 watts), so it should be located near a 240-volt outlet but can operative on battery backup units if required. Pellet stoves may be purchased as inserts that fit into an existing fireplace or a purpose built cabinet that resembles a fire place. Other freestanding versions convect hot air directly into the room by means of a fan and radiate some heat as well. Hydronic Pellet heaters (boilers) create hot water that can be distributed by plumbing around a home connecting radiator panels where needed or in a concrete slab floor.


The search results seem to indicate they're mainly used in Tasmania.

[loneranger]

Sorry just realised it WAS a quote from GOOGLE. Would have been paid for it's position on Google though





This quote sounds familiar.
Quote: "The source of sawdust (harvested trees) is renewable and because the sawdust is waste, pellet fuel used for heating is great for our environment and our economy."



First up the saw dust comes from trees, SHOW me anywhere in the world that trees are being grown quicker, or at the same pace than they are being cut down.
Australia is 35 years behind catching up to equalise cut down/grown/ renewable resource, that is if the rate of destruction remains no worse than it is now.
Australia is the third worst land clearer in the world behind Indonesia and Brasil.
So Renewable resources don't even get a look in.
In the next 10 years or so you won't be able to afford to burn wood as most will be used to produce Ethanol.
What doesn't make sense to me is: First we cut down a tree, which absorbs Carbon Dioxide and produces OXYGEN, which all things on this Planet need to SURVIVE, it's like "going to war for peace" or "screwing for virginity", Regards Frank.

The site I quoted is the same one Big Black Dog linked to and is from one of the shops selling Pellet fires. I put up the info as I had no idea what a pellet fire was.

I'm in WA and wear shorts all year round :D.

[LandyAndy]

Would ask you to consider would you like to live next door to your wood heater, you wouldn't mind breathing in Toxic, Carcinogenic emissions so as you can enjoy your heater.
A wood heater draws air from outside the house to fuel the fire, up to 40% of what goes up your chimney on cold air inversion nights (most nights in winter) is drawn back into your house for all to breathe. One wood heater in a 24 hour period will produce the same volume of smoke as 100,000 cigarettes, 40% of that SMOKE (which has the same Carcinogenic compounds) will come back into the house to fuel the fire, the other 60% you will share with your neighbours.
Launceston has the highest Air pollution in Australia as a direct result of wood heaters, something to read other that the lying blurb published by the bastards that want to take your money while telling you how good these are for the environment and your health, sounds very familiar to the Tobacco companies back in the 50's and 60's, Regards Frank.

I put up with several inconsiderate feral neighbors.
In no way am I going to consider ANY emmisions from my house fire,my shed fire,my wood fired outside oven or any of my arken ****en fires.
BRING ON WINTER!!!!!
Andrew

[crash]

A couple of friends have the grain / corn heaters and they like them. One is a dairy farmer so he gets his corn / grain at bulk feed price.
An advantage is that you can place them on any external wall as the chimney goes straight out.
BUT what they both have said is that "what is in the smoke" as it is very corrosive, eating out guttering that was above the "chimney" and even corroded up a stainless BBQ that was close by.
One advantage of burning corn is that you sometimes will find some Popped corn inside!
Their is also very little ash to deal with when compared to conventional wood heaters.

[Tote]

Would ask you to consider would you like to live next door to your wood heater, you wouldn't mind breathing in Toxic, Carcinogenic emissions so as you can enjoy your heater.
A wood heater draws air from outside the house to fuel the fire, up to 40% of what goes up your chimney on cold air inversion nights (most nights in winter) is drawn back into your house for all to breathe. One wood heater in a 24 hour period will produce the same volume of smoke as 100,000 cigarettes, 40% of that SMOKE (which has the same Carcinogenic compounds) will come back into the house to fuel the fire, the other 60% you will share with your neighbours.
Launceston has the highest Air pollution in Australia as a direct result of wood heaters, something to read other that the lying blurb published by the bastards that want to take your money while telling you how good these are for the environment and your health, sounds very familiar to the Tobacco companies back in the 50's and 60's, Regards Frank.

Unfortunately I can only intermittently get coal for my register grates and have to make do with briquettes most years.
In the rest of the fireplaces we burn dead timber depriving the termites of a good feed.

Regards,
Tote

[BigBlackDog]

tank, where do those figures come from? not arguing the point just wondering is all. As I said I suspect traditional wood fires will face restrictions in the future. pellets are supposedly a lot more clean burning, supposedly about 4 times less mass needed for the same output. That has to be better, plus they are constantly burning feed air, so not getting the fuel rich smoking that show combustions can get. Be interesting to know what is in the exhaust of them.
The other thing to consider with electricity is where does it come from? Mining and burning coal isn't great. Has has to be extracted from the earth, what's the effect of that long term? Rhetorical questions obviously It is not as simply as we would like to hope. Energy production and use is a huge topic which I don't want to get involved in.

Good points all and a lot of things I hadn't thought of.

[Jojo]

Would ask you to consider would you like to live next door to your wood heater, you wouldn't mind breathing in Toxic, Carcinogenic emissions so as you can enjoy your heater.
A wood heater draws air from outside the house to fuel the fire, up to 40% of what goes up your chimney on cold air inversion nights (most nights in winter) is drawn back into your house for all to breathe. One wood heater in a 24 hour period will produce the same volume of smoke as 100,000 cigarettes, 40% of that SMOKE (which has the same Carcinogenic compounds) will come back into the house to fuel the fire, the other 60% you will share with your neighbours.


Sorry folks, but this is utterly rubbish. Modern wood burners, either for logs or wood chips, are completely different from the ancient ones referred to above. They burn almost as efficient and clean as pellet burners and will not produce any harmful emissions at all, especially if coupled with a filter and burning untreated wood only.
Comparing the old style burners with the most recent ones is about akin to comparing an old fashioned IDI-Diesel engine to a modern common rail type.
Btw, if smoke or emissions are drawn back into the house you are having a problem with your chimney and this should be sorted asap, no matter what fuel you are using.
Cheers

[Homestar]

Just looking at the link posted earlier and it says the average Tasmanian house would use around a tonne of pellets over Winter. One thing I can't seem to find is a supplier of the pellets, and the cost of these.

Any links to point me in the right direction?

Cheers - Gav.

Oh, and there are plenty of sustainable forests around the world as well as right here in Australia. Not talking natives, although some are, but pine grown in and around the Latrobe Valley in Vic, and around Mt Gambier in SA are fully sustainable. I'm sure there are other examples. Have been for decades otherwise the paper mill at Maryvale and the sawmills at Mt Gambier would have run out of timber years ago. I'm not saying that replacing vast tracts of land with pine forests is the best solution, although I think most pulping wood is now eucalypt, just pointing out that in those 2 areas, more trees are planted and grown each year than are harvested. With Mt Gambiers declining economy, I think someone turning their hand to pellet production there - as mentioned earlier, is a great idea.

[BigBlackDog]

Pellet fire Tas make their own pellets here in Hobart, $9 for a 15kg bag. I get the impression most people buy a tonne on a pallet. They set up the pellet machine at a local timber mill, keeps transport cost low. They also list pellets from Geelong and NSW and NZ on there price list, on a ever increasing scale of $ though naturally. I wish I could burn my lawn, it's pretty sustainable at the moment

[Tank]

Typical reply from a typical (I'll burn whatever I want and **** everyone else) wood heater owner.
If JoJO or anyone else who thinks wood heater emissions are harmless
Quote fro jojo:" will not produce any harmful emissions at all", then remove your flue (chimney) and breathe all that loverly wood smoke.
Just like in India where 3 million people die every year from Nose, mouth, throat and lung cancer AS A DIRECT RESULT OF WOODSMOKE FROM COOKING/HEATING FIRES INSIDE THEIR HOMES.
BTW jojo and others where do you get your misinformation from.
Mine comes from the DAR@CSIRO, Australian and American Medical Journals, Australian Lung Foundation, NSW Department of Health, State EPA's, National Pollution Inventory and other pages of CREDIBLE non vested sources.
Tell me all those experts out there what is the current PM emission allowable from a brand new Domestic Wood Heater (DWH), anyone know?
The National Heritage Advisory Council did a snap audit on emissions of of every DWH available through retail outlets, MORE THAN 60% failed and couldn't even meet emissions from 20 year old standards.
So you dreamers out there that think they are doing the environment a favour by burning wood, which absorbs Carbon dioxide, whilst producing Oxygen and then gets burnt and produces more PM air Pollution in one 24 period than a modern car does in it's entire lifetime.
2/3 of Australia's forest (since white settlement are gone) so how is cutting wood and burning it renewable. Most people who have no Idea think that burning wood produces Carbon Dioxide which is reabsorbed by new trees, CORRECT, except the largest and worse Green House Gas is METHANE and new trees do not reabsorb Methane or the myriad of other GHG, only Carbon Dioxide, check it out, Regards Frank.













Sorry folks, but this is utterly rubbish. Modern wood burners, either for logs or wood chips, are completely different from the ancient ones referred to above. They burn almost as efficient and clean as pellet burners and will not produce any harmful emissions at all, especially if coupled with a filter and burning untreated wood only.
Comparing the old style burners with the most recent ones is about akin to comparing an old fashioned IDI-Diesel engine to a modern common rail type.
Btw, if smoke or emissions are drawn back into the house you are having a problem with your chimney and this should be sorted asap, no matter what fuel you are using.
Cheers

[Homestar]

So does that mean I'm going to die sitting around a campfire at night talking ****? Will that be offset by the preserving actions of the alcohol I'm consuming at the same time? :D

[Tank]

Unfortunately I can only intermittently get coal for my register grates and have to make do with briquettes most years.
In the rest of the fireplaces we burn dead timber depriving the termites of a good feed.

Regards,
Tote


Then there's the animals, birds, insects that feed on termites. Also the carbon in the wood is not recycled back into the soil which is essential for the growth of vegetation. Instead of releasing the dead woods carbon over a couple of hundred years, you shove it in the fire and release CO2, CO, NOS, Methane, DIOXINS, Furans, Ligneous compounds PAH's, POP's BaP's and a whole host of Toxic and Carcinogenic compounds, like Lead and Mercury, it's so good to see you really care for the environment and you and your neighbours health.
Go to the National Pollution Inventory and see what we are actually breathing, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

So does that mean I'm going to die sitting around a campfire at night talking ****? Will that be offset by the preserving actions of the alcohol I'm consuming at the same time? :D


There are many types of alcohol(ic) drinks as there are many types of wood smoke, they will all KILL you if you breathe enough of it, (like booze will).
An open fire, camp/bush fire smoke has different chemical and PM properties to a woodheater which has controls (Air intake, flue control).
If you restrict air to a fire it will burn/smoulder longer, when a wood heater reaches the desired temperature the air controls are used to restrict air to fuel the fire.
These supposedly new wood heaters claim to burn cleaner because the air controls don't allow the air fuel to be restricted and because they burn hotter they have what is falsely known as a secondary burn, which reduces emissions.
BUT when the heater has reached it's desirable temp. and the house becomes too warm the operator closes the (supposedly unclosable) air inlet and the heater cools down, the secondary burner fails to work and the wood smoulders filling your street with smoke that is 20 TIMES more Carcinogenic than the same volume of Cigarette smoke.
How young do you want your kids or the neighbours kids to start smoking.
REMEMBER WHEN YOU CAN'T BREATHE, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS,
BTW the National Health and Advisory Council snap AUDIT of all Wood Heaters sold in Australia showed that the over 60% failure rate was because the AIR Flow Controls had been modified by the manufacturers or importers so woodheater owners could load up their heaters so they would still be smouldering in the morning or when they got home from work, because it was unpleasant to have to light the fire all the time. Retailers biggest selling point is you only need to light up once, right through till warmer months. Australian regs. state the woodheater flue cannot be closed far enough to let the wood smoulder or produce smoke, a woodheater smouldering for up to 18 hours a day will produce more PM air pollution than a new car will produce in it's entire lifetime, Regards Again

[Jojo]

Well then... Given the obvious dangers of wood burning, I am amazed that mankind made it past the cave state to being able to enjoy the benefits of clean nuclear power and the like.:p

[Homestar]

There are many types of alcohol(ic) drinks as there are many types of wood smoke, they will all KILL you if you breathe enough of it, (like booze will).
An open fire, camp/bush fire smoke has different chemical and PM properties to a woodheater which has controls (Air intake, flue control).
If you restrict air to a fire it will burn/smoulder longer, when a wood heater reaches the desired temperature the air controls are used to restrict air to fuel the fire.
These supposedly new wood heaters claim to burn cleaner because the air controls don't allow the air fuel to be restricted and because they burn hotter they have what is falsely known as a secondary burn, which reduces emissions.
BUT when the heater has reached it's desirable temp. and the house becomes too warm the operator closes the (supposedly unclosable) air inlet and the heater cools down, the secondary burner fails to work and the wood smoulders filling your street with smoke that is 20 TIMES more Carcinogenic than the same volume of Cigarette smoke.
How young do you want your kids or the neighbours kids to start smoking.
REMEMBER WHEN YOU CAN'T BREATHE, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS,
BTW the National Health and Advisory Council snap AUDIT of all Wood Heaters sold in Australia showed that the over 60% failure rate was because the AIR Flow Controls had been modified by the manufacturers or importers so woodheater owners could load up their heaters so they would still be smouldering in the morning or when they got home from work, because it was unpleasant to have to light the fire all the time. Retailers biggest selling point is you only need to light up once, right through till warmer months. Australian regs. state the woodheater flue cannot be closed far enough to let the wood smoulder or produce smoke, a woodheater smouldering for up to 18 hours a day will produce more PM air pollution than a new car will produce in it's entire lifetime, Regards Again

Straight through to the keeper...

[Tank]

Well then... Given the obvious dangers of wood burning, I am amazed that mankind made it past the cave state to being able to enjoy the benefits of clean nuclear power and the like.:p


You are the one that said there were no harmful emissions from a woodheater, Right, well then remove your woodheater flue and we will see, EH!, Regards Frank.
BTW, I'll bet the Japs wish you had been there for their latest clean fuel BBQ, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

Straight through to the keeper...


I figured as much, bit slow with the bat? Regards Frank.