Brake Cylinders - rebuild, new, new genuine?

[Yorkshire_Jon]

All,
My 11" x 3" SII brake cylinders are lightly pitted in the bores (Can see it and feel it). Realistically, what options do I have?

I believe the part numbers are:
LHS - 600200
RHS - 600201

As I see it, there are 5 options:
1. Live with the weep
2. Re-build with new seal kit
3. Replace with Britpart cylinders
4. Replace with Genuine LR cylinders
5. Get mine re-sleeved with a stainless liner

#1 - not going to happen
#2 - Given Ive got damaged bores I suspect this is a waste of time
#3 - Will be OK tomorrow, what about reliability over the next few years?
#4 - Way too expensive!!
#5 - Maybe cost prohibitive, maybe can't be done?

Given the 5 options, it strikes me only option #3 and #5 are realistic.


What do most people do? Any suggestions and advice welcomed.

Thanks
J

[Mick_Marsh]

How expensive is re-sleeving? I've never found it too expensive.
How expensive is OEM? SIII ones are cheap. I can't think SII would be that much more expensive.
New cheap ones could possibly have perforations. Have a quick look at GG's New Project thread.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

How expensive is re-sleeving? I've never found it too expensive.
How expensive is OEM? SIII ones are cheap. I can't think SII would be that much more expensive.
New cheap ones could possibly have perforations. Have a quick look at GG's New Project thread.

Thanks Mick.
I don't know how much re-sleeving is. I need to check now that I know its do-able - Ive only ever heard of people re-sleeving master cylinders.

Genuine LR cylinders are approx ?130 each!!! Britpart are approx ?10 each. Ive not come across anything labelled as OEM yet.

Are the S3 cylinders the same as the S2 11x3's?

R
J

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The cylinders on the 86" are basically the same as the cylinders on the 88" up to and including the SIII the only difference may be BSF fittings versus UNF fittings, but after 60 year replacing the tube nuts on the cylinders may be a good idea.

The only one that may be useful sleeving would be the master cylinder as they are almost unobtainable, although you can convert to SII/SIIa CV or CB cylinders.

BTW you can often find NOS Girling, PBR and Lockheed cylinders.
the original Girling numbers are: LH Front GI 390073 W
RH Front GI 390072 W
LH Rear GI 390015 W
RH Rear GI 390014 W

Oops I was giving you the original 10"part numbers.

Yes the 11" X 3" wheel cylinders are the same part number right through to 1980, however they were not fitted to SII only SIIa. 3"brakes were introduced on the SIIa Forward control in 1963 and on the bonneted control in the 6 cyl in 1967.

[Mick_Marsh]

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer. The theory is they are bought from the manufacturer rather than Landrover and are therefore cheaper for the original part.

[gromit]

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer. The theory is they are bought from the manufacturer rather than Landrover and are therefore cheaper for the original part.

Problem is that the term 'OEM' seems to be much abused by Land Rover parts suppliers. They often use terms like OEM quality, OEM specification etc.

OEM was Girling (Lockheed for the very early ones) so if it hasn't got Girling cast on it probably isn't OEM


Colin

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Jon

I don't know how familiar you are with the 11" brakes but some people have trouble bleeding them.

The problem: The flexible hose goes to the the top cylinder then a pipe runs from the top cylinder to the bottom cylinder and the bleed nipple is on the bottom cylinder. Air bubles tend to rise in the system, so as you are trying to bleed the brakes the air wants to rise up to the top cylinder. You end up having to pressure bleed, back bleed or vacuum bleed.

A solution: one of my SIIA FC axle assemblies had two pipes. The flexible hose was designed to couple with flare nuts at each end. The wheel end terminated in a bracket attached to the top two bolts on the swivel seal retainer. A pipe then went to the bottom cylinder and a second pipe went back to the top cylinder and the bleed nipple was at the top. So it is easier to bleed the air out of the top cylinder.

The brackets on the swivel seal retainer are also used on SIII military Land Rovers and all you then have to do is make up the pipe from the bracket down to the bottom cylinder with a 3/16" flare nut on one end and a regular 3/16" brake tube nut on the other . You are merely reversing the flow of the other pipe.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Problem is that the term 'OEM' seems to be much abused by Land Rover parts suppliers. They often use terms like OEM quality, OEM specification etc.

OEM was Girling (Lockheed for the very early ones) so if it hasn't got Girling cast on it probably isn't OEM

ColinI thought Girling pre dated Lockheed (or that Lockheed bought out Girling) my original 1954 to 1957 (Rover Co Ltd) parts manual has the Rover part number with the Girling number in the description. Later Rover Co manuals ommitted the Girling number, presumably so that customers purchased the part with the Rover box and price.

In Australia around the 1980s for some reason the Lockheed-Girling factory (in Harp Street Clempton Park NSW) again started to use the Girling brand on their parts where they had been using the Lockheed brand through the late1970s or there abouts.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Jon

I don't know how familiar you are with the 11" brakes but some people have trouble bleeding them.

The problem: The flexible hose goes to the the top cylinder then a pipe runs from the top cylinder to the bottom cylinder and the bleed nipple is on the bottom cylinder. Air bubles tend to rise in the system, so as you are trying to bleed the brakes the air wants to rise up to the top cylinder. You end up having to pressure bleed, back bleed or vacuum bleed.

A solution: one of my SIIA FC axle assemblies had two pipes. The flexible hose was designed to couple with flare nuts at each end. The wheel end terminated in a bracket attached to the top two bolts on the swivel seal retainer. A pipe then went to the bottom cylinder and a second pipe went back to the top cylinder and the bleed nipple was at the top. So it is easier to bleed the air out of the top cylinder.

The brackets on the swivel seal retainer are also used on SIII military Land Rovers and all you then have to do is make up the pipe from the bracket down to the bottom cylinder with a 3/16" flare nut on one end and a regular 3/16" brake tube nut on the other . You are merely reversing the flow of the other pipe.

Diana,
As I suspect you've already guessed, this is my first foray into the world of drum brakes and so I know next to nothing about them. I have read some time ago about problems bleeding.

Dont suppose you have any photo's / part numbers of the bits you speak of?

Thx
J

[gromit]

I thought Girling pre dated Lockheed (or that Lockheed bought out Girling) my original 1954 to 1957 (Rover Co Ltd) parts manual has the Rover part number with the Girling number in the description. Later Rover Co manuals omitted the Girling number, presumably so that customers purchased the part with the Rover box and price.

In Australia around the 1980s for some reason the Lockheed-Girling factory (in Harp Street Clempton Park NSW) again started to use the Girling brand on their parts where they had been using the Lockheed brand through the late1970s or there abouts.

I think Arthur Goddard mentioned Lockheed on the early ones then they switched to Girling.
Whether they merged at a later date I'm not sure. Checking the internet (Wikipedia) it gets a bit confusing.
Lucas Industries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Industries)
Automotive Products - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_Products)

If correct it seems AP were using the Lockheed name in the UK ended up being sold to an Indian company.
Girling brake manufacture taken over by Lucas in 1938 and now owned by TRW.


Colin

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Maybe it was a licencing deal with Lockheed making pattern parts.