1986 ignition relay

[Chucaro]

My RRC still having the problem to loose all the power (like if the battery was disconnected) and I wonder if the cause can be a bad connection or faulty ignition relay.
Where it is located the relay? Can be under the dash near the steering column?
Once lost the power I have to wait few minutes for it to come back.
The fault is under petrol and gas.
I wonder if it can be a faulty change over switch as well.
Inputs appreciated :)

[bee utey]

Once again, less of the hypotheticals and more of the testing. :)

Now, as a Land Rover owner you need to understand the basic colours of the important wires on your vehicle, they didn't change for many many years.

1. ALL unfused permanent battery supply wires are plain brown without stripes. You can test any of these for power anytime the battery is connected and you should find battery voltage.

2. ALL unfused ignition wires are plain white, no stripes. So you cast your eye under the dash, looking for relays and connection plugs to the ignition switch. ALL plain white wires installed by LR should be unfused ignition.

3. On my '89 wreck there's a bunch of relays hanging up high above the brake pedal. Many have plain white wires to them so I assume they are ignition relays of some sort. No idea how similar the '86 is.

4. Now to inspect any terminal block you look for crispy discoloured plastic around any connections that have these wires in them. When you dismantle these discoloured connectors you usually find the brass terminals are discoloured too and very weak. They tend to heat up when current passes through them and disconnect. When the current stops they cool down and sometimes reconnect. They will need to be cut out and redone, either with solder or screw terminals of some sort.

5. Also, neither the petrol or the gas will run unless there is an ignition signal from the negative side of the coil to the respective electronics. This wire is white with a black stripe at the coil.

6. Now to test an intermittent circuit, hang a temporary lamp off the dash somewhere, e.g. an old tail lamp globe. Earth one side of the globe holder and run a wire off the other side to whatever circuit you are currently testing. If the globe goes out at the same time as you car stops then you may be closer to identifying the problem connection.

7. Finally there's the hot wire, this means you run a new wire from a known good point (say the ignition switch) to the affected component, e.g. the ignition coil. If this keeps the vehicle running then you fault is somewhere in between these two points.

If you're having trouble getting your fingers to work, find a young lad with good eyesight and give him a torch, tell him what to look for. Classic Rangies aren't that hard to diagnose. ;):eek::p

[Chucaro]

Thanks mate, I will lubricate "my own hinges" and proceed to inspect the components :)
Why the car designers not designed cars with all the electrics and mechanical components accessible for people with only one elbow ?
To easy I guess :D

[DoubleChevron]

Your kidding me ... they have colour coded hte wiring in a useful way :o :o That's unheard of, I'm used to random colours with terminal sleaves that once denoted what the wire was ( if you had a manual) all these sleaves aged to be the same colour though.

Nothing beats the early bosch injection systems.... I think early bosch only owned one roll of wire ................. and it was black. :angel:

seeya,
Shane L.

[Homestar]

Your kidding me ... they have colour coded hte wiring in a useful way :o :o That's unheard of, I'm used to random colours with terminal sleaves that once denoted what the wire was ( if you had a manual) all these sleaves aged to be the same colour though.

Nothing beats the early bosch injection systems.... I think early bosch only owned one roll of wire ................. and it was black. :angel:

seeya,
Shane L.

Yes, the wiring actually is easy to work out in them. In fact, I think it's the only thing Lucas got right. Colour coding on most British vehicles back then was done to a standard. The chart below is not the best, nor complete, but gives you an idea. Colours are the same from early series vehicles right through until the Bosch systems were installed in the 90's.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[350RRC]

Been there done that Arthur,

something like this might sort it, and I know it is wrong year:

Range Rover Classic Steering Lock KEY SET PRE 1985 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Range-Rover-Classic-Steering-Lock-Key-Set-Pre-1985-/251331806129?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a848b03b1)

cheers, DL

[DoubleChevron]

Yes, the wiring actually is easy to work out in them. In fact, I think it's the only thing Lucas got right. Colour coding on most British vehicles back then was done to a standard. The chart below is not the best, nor complete, but gives you an idea. Colours are the same from early series vehicles right through until the Bosch systems were installed in the 90's.

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j443/Bacicat2000/D97EB186-5352-4D89-9715-903388750B26-583-000000F86AB25727_zpsc028c1c3.jpg

I'll be damned.... that matches the wiring to the center brake light I was chasing on a '92 model. I'm going to print that guide out and stick on the shed wall next to the trailer plug wiring diagram I always forget.

seeya,
shane L.

[sppigot]

My RRC still having the problem to loose all the power (like if the battery was disconnected) and I wonder if the cause can be a bad connection or faulty ignition relay.
Where it is located the relay? Can be under the dash near the steering column?
Once lost the power I have to wait few minutes for it to come back.
The fault is under petrol and gas.
I wonder if it can be a faulty change over switch as well.
Inputs appreciated :)

Resurrecting an old thread but I am having the same problem with my 86 Rangie. Been over the wiring trying to find it but nothing stands out in terms of old connectors etc and cleaned up everything I can see just in case so would be interested in what you found to fix this.

Not sure how to test it as the problem seems to be that the ignition switch just cuts all the power and it happens intermittently. Looking through the manual I can see that the 86 doesn't use an ignition load relay ie. everything goes through the ignition switch (if there is a relay it isn't in the drivers footwell or on the passengers side of the firewall and it isn't in the wiring diagrams I have access to) tho of course some things have their own relays eg. heated rear window etc I'm wondering whether the gas solenoids plus everything else that doesn't have its own relay are/have been pulling too much load through the ignition switch and have damaged it as the gas tank and cut off solenoids click rapidly sometimes before the power is cut?

Presumably a fix/test would be to install a relay to take the load off the ignition switch using the existing link from the ignition switch as the trigger for the relay (ie. terminal 86) and prolly buy a new ignition switch. But before that am interested in your experience.

Thanks, Simon

[discojools]

I have a power problem in my 83 RRC. Just sometimes I go to start the car and there is no power at all. I then try again and all is good. Is there a relay that could be causing the problem and if so where would I find it? I think once or twice I have also lost power when driving and switching the wipers on too.

[DoubleChevron]

Once again, less of the hypotheticals and more of the testing. :)

Now, as a Land Rover owner you need to understand the basic colours of the important wires on your vehicle, they didn't change for many many years.

1. ALL unfused permanent battery supply wires are plain brown without stripes. You can test any of these for power anytime the battery is connected and you should find battery voltage.

2. ALL unfused ignition wires are plain white, no stripes. So you cast your eye under the dash, looking for relays and connection plugs to the ignition switch. ALL plain white wires installed by LR should be unfused ignition.

3. On my '89 wreck there's a bunch of relays hanging up high above the brake pedal. Many have plain white wires to them so I assume they are ignition relays of some sort. No idea how similar the '86 is.

4. Now to inspect any terminal block you look for crispy discoloured plastic around any connections that have these wires in them. When you dismantle these discoloured connectors you usually find the brass terminals are discoloured too and very weak. They tend to heat up when current passes through them and disconnect. When the current stops they cool down and sometimes reconnect. They will need to be cut out and redone, either with solder or screw terminals of some sort.

5. Also, neither the petrol or the gas will run unless there is an ignition signal from the negative side of the coil to the respective electronics. This wire is white with a black stripe at the coil.

6. Now to test an intermittent circuit, hang a temporary lamp off the dash somewhere, e.g. an old tail lamp globe. Earth one side of the globe holder and run a wire off the other side to whatever circuit you are currently testing. If the globe goes out at the same time as you car stops then you may be closer to identifying the problem connection.

7. Finally there's the hot wire, this means you run a new wire from a known good point (say the ignition switch) to the affected component, e.g. the ignition coil. If this keeps the vehicle running then you fault is somewhere in between these two points.

If you're having trouble getting your fingers to work, find a young lad with good eyesight and give him a torch, tell him what to look for. Classic Rangies aren't that hard to diagnose. ;):eek::p


LOL ... I've just deleted this as I've said the identical thing above....

[350RRC]

I have a power problem in my 83 RRC. Just sometimes I go to start the car and there is no power at all. I then try again and all is good. Is there a relay that could be causing the problem and if so where would I find it? I think once or twice I have also lost power when driving and switching the wipers on too.

Much more likely to be the ignition switch itself. The copper contacts in the actual switch hanging off the end of the lock barrel wear with age and this displays a variety of (sometimes weird and intermittent) symptoms.

A whole new unit (barrel, keys and switch) is only about $100.

cheers, DL

[discojools]

I have a new ignition switch so will try that at some point. Had wondered if that's what the problem is. It is the original ignition switch fro 83.

[sppigot]

Resurrecting an old thread but I am having the same problem with my 86 Rangie. Been over the wiring trying to find it but nothing stands out in terms of old connectors etc and cleaned up everything I can see just in case so would be interested in what you found to fix this.

Not sure how to test it as the problem seems to be that the ignition switch just cuts all the power and it happens intermittently. Looking through the manual I can see that the 86 doesn't use an ignition load relay ie. everything goes through the ignition switch (if there is a relay it isn't in the drivers footwell or on the passengers side of the firewall and it isn't in the wiring diagrams I have access to) tho of course some things have their own relays eg. heated rear window etc I'm wondering whether the gas solenoids plus everything else that doesn't have its own relay are/have been pulling too much load through the ignition switch and have damaged it as the gas tank and cut off solenoids click rapidly sometimes before the power is cut?

Presumably a fix/test would be to install a relay to take the load off the ignition switch using the existing link from the ignition switch as the trigger for the relay (ie. terminal 86) and prolly buy a new ignition switch. But before that am interested in your experience.

Thanks, Simon

My ignition switch has been replaced less than 5 years ago so although I was suspicious of it (since the symptoms were the same then) and thought about replacing it in the above I wanted to check elsewhere. So I bit the bullet and stripped the sheathing I had put on the wires to the coil some years ago to find that the wires themselves were in very poor shape. The insulation on these very thin wires was dry and crumbly and perhaps melted in places (why are they so thin and weedy?) so much so that the positive, negative and earth wires could actually touch in places and short out the ignition, causing complete loss of ignition etc. Curiously the damage was all downstream of a connector about 20cm from the coil. Anyway have replaced the wires and removed the negative one which actually wasn't connected in my implementation and all is ok after an extended drive and a few days so hopefully the problem is fixed.

So yes: suspect the worn out/original ignition switch but check the wires to the coil for age and damage as well.

Also be careful of how you setup your tests: I installed a relay to check all this wiring by getting power direct to the coil +ve but I triggered the relay from an ignition wire (doh!) so that of course when the short took out the ignition, the trigger for the relay disappeared as well - didn't think that one through quite enough..... :( should have gone direct to the battery.

All of the above kind of begs the question as to why the insulation on these wires appears to have melted in places but that could have been due to the deterioration of the insulation and this short or anything in the cars previous life (though I don't remember the wires being in poor condition when I sheathed them some years ago!). Most importantly the new wiring does not get hot.

Good luck and hope the above helps!
Simon