Need help identifying a Series 3

[Warb]

I posted a question in the "Series" area of the forum, based on the supposed history of the vehicle, but got no response. So, armed with a few more details, I thought I'd try here!

I have a Series 3 109" Land rover. The VIN starts 911xxxx, Calvin says it's a Basic petrol 109", destination "home market". Serial number puts it around 1974/5, based on "end of year serial number" data on the web.

It has a military style chassis, extended dual height spring mounts, long shackles, bolt-on gearbox crossmember, "square" rear cross member (no sloping ends), "sticky out bits" under rear lights, over-riders on front bumper.

Rear springs are 8 leaf, leaves are all the same. Front springs are 11 leaf.

Dual under-seat fuel tanks, no external fillers.

"Military" centre section of dashboard, with IR light switch, rotary convoy light switch and brakelight test button. Left hand gauge is MPH speedo, right hand gauge is water temp, oil temp, fuel.

Bonnet is deluxe/recessed for spare tyre, spare retained with pin+"handle" and 3 hooks for webbing. Sprung bonnet catches, not lever.

Headlights marked FVxxxx and mushroom style side/tail/brake lights and indicators.

12V electrics.

Dual circuit brakes.

Oil cooler in front of radiator.

Engine is numbered 951xxxx which Glencoyne references as 2.25L petrol, 3 bearing, as fitted to 88" air portable. Water pump has 2 belt drive. Head cast number is 568750, appears to be stamped as 8:1 but seems to have VG (?) stamped in front of what's left of the 8 on the boss. Engine painted duck-egg blue, including inlet manifold, water pump etc.

The only id plate is the standard Land Rover one, no military plate are obvious. The Land rover plate states front axle = 1050kg, rear axle 1710kg, GVM = 2680kg. These numbers do not "add up" (on my other SIII the front axle is 970kg so they DO add up!).

Currently it is a "basic" (ute) configuration, and all external hooks etc. have been removed (even the canvas tie downs have been removed) So I cannot tell what external tools may have originally been fitted.

It looks like it might have been green (possibly the darker "NATO style" green), at least at some stage, but many coats of paint make it hard to tell!

The story has this vehicle coming from the UN in Africa to the US Olympic team in Sydney (2000 Olympics), but I can find no evidence to support that.

So based on the description above, does anyone have any other thoughts about what it was?

Edit: It's right hand drive!

[Mick_Marsh]

Photo's and full chassis number would help.
Are you sure it was ex military? Might be some strange civilian variant. A one ton for example.
It could also be a bitsa.

[pop058]

It may have had a mil chassis stuck under it. The actual number on the chassis would tell us that. IIRC, ex-mil S3s should have a 943 prefix.

[Mick_Marsh]

It may have had a mil chassis stuck under it. The actual number on the chassis would tell us that. IIRC, ex-mil S3s should have a 943 prefix.
I suspect if it is a Military chassis it would be an English Military chassis. The 943 prefix is for Australian Military chassis.

[Warb]

I've just checked and the chassis number as stamped on the front spring hanger is the same as the number on the plate in the cab, i.e. 911xxx

I'm not sure how photo's would help, it has been repainted, denuded of all hooks etc. and repainted several times, but I'll try and get some if required. Is there any particular portion of the vehicle or angle of view that will show anything especially useful? The vehicle currently has a ute cab, but I am told that it previously (during it's supposed "Olympic" period) had a custom fibreglass top and was (is) registered as a small bus.

The 911 prefix is 109" basic petrol, yet further research shows the 1050kg maximum front axle weight was specified for the 109" diesel. However the diesel had the overall weight increased to 2760kg (1050+1710) whereas this vehicle has a plate (seemingly original) that specifies 1050kg (diesel) front and 1710kg (diesel and petrol) rear, but with a total of 2680kg (petrol). And 1050+1710 does not equal 2680!!!

Apparently a bunch of RAF TACR-1 SIII vehicles (custom aluminium fire-fighting bodies) were built on 911 prefix chassis numbers, configured in military / 1 ton form but mostly with Rover front and Salisbury rear axles. I'm fairly sure this isn't one of them, but could be British military?

[JDNSW]

Sounds likely to me that it is British military - and has has significant modifications in civilian life.
Be interesting to know how it came to be here.

John

[Warb]

Be interesting to know how it came to be here.

The story I have been told is that is one of a group of 12 (?) similar vehicles that were acquired by the US Olympic Team from the U.N. in Africa. Each was then renovated, fitted with rear seats and a fibreglass roof, registered in Australia as a small bus and equipped with a custom fibreglass equipment trailer. They were then used by the US Team for the duration of the Sydney Olympics, after which they were abandoned (sold en masse, presumably). Apparently this vehicle was covered with sponsors stickers, and the external fittings were removed for "OH&S" reasons - to avoid people getting snagged on them! Certainly the current waist-down colour was applied after the were removed, which fits the story, as does the evidence of stickers being removed (top coat torn off in places!). The fibreglass station wagon shell that was supposedly fitted at that time, together with the rear seats have been removed and a ute cab fitted in their place.

But.... I cannot find any mention of such vehicles on the web, either relating to the Olympics, nor (because it occurred to me to look) for the subsequent Paralympics. So who knows?!

But if anyone remembers seeing any silver Series III's involved in the 2000 Olympics, I'd love to know!

[JDNSW]

The story I have been told is that is one of a group of 12 (?) similar vehicles that were acquired by the US Olympic Team from the U.N. in Africa.

That would be consistent with it being a home market military spec vehicle. (It may even have gone from UK military to the UN) And the significant modification in civilian life.

Certainly the position of the chassis number, overriders on bumper, and lack of other features points to it not being Australian manufactured, and the chassis number agrees with this.

Does it have an Australian compliance plate or equivalent? If not, is it registered? And if so, how did it get registered? By that date of manufacture it should have had one, although it was near the start of the scheme (1972 I think) so may have slipped through.

John

[Warb]

No, it doesn't have an Australian compliance plate that I have yet found. Yes, it is registered........ However it is registered as having been made in 1980. It has two engineering reports noted on the registration, but I don't know what they relate to.

Lack of a compliance plate is not really important. Even a vehicle that once had one (they can't be re-issued, apparently), can be registered on the basis that it was previously registered in Australia. And imported road vehicles built before 1989 don't need one anyway. I know Australia likes to have different rules in each state, but for Tasmania (excerpt from Tas Light Vehicle Inspection Manual, the first one my Google search found!):

"Vehicles approved for importation as road vehicles with a date of manufacture prior to 1 January 1989 do not require a compliance plate, however they do require a Vehicle Identity inspection by the Departments Transport Inspectors prior to be passed for registration if the vehicle has not previously been registered in Australia."

I haven't searched for the rules in other states, but I'd assume they're similar.

[Warb]

It's looking like this vehicle is a British Military Series III, either GF or GJ, according to people on the Ex-Military LR Association forum.

It has a couple of things that I'd not seen before, including the exhaust running through holes in the chassis. Are Australian 109's configured this way, or do their exhaust systems go "around" the chassis the way civilian ones do?

90590

[JDNSW]

........
It has a couple of things that I'd not seen before, including the exhaust running through holes in the chassis. Are Australian 109's configured this way, or do their exhaust systems go "around" the chassis the way civilian ones do?

90590

Mine does, anyway, although it is a 2a.

John

[Warb]

Excellent! And I've had confirmation that the "straight" intermediate exhaust (part 501221) continued in to the military SIII 109 in it's twin fuel tank form.

I've also now traced and spoken to the dealer that purchased some of these vehicles after the Olympics and he's confirmed the Nike/Olympic/UN story (and the associated trailers). I've also got the registration history that shows the first rego (business use) in July 2000, 2 months before the Olympics, and sale to a dealer a few months after the Olympics ended.

But wait, there's more! I've now found and retrieved the "Nike" custom fibreglass roof, internal roll cage/seat belt mount and barn style rear door that were fitted at first Australian registration. And identified three layers of paint prior to the Nike Silver. First is a typical LR gloss green, then a lighter matt khaki green, then white (UN) and finally Nike silver.

So it would seem the history is as originally suggested. British army spec LR, UN use in Africa, imported and customised by Nike for the Olympics, then subsequent civilian owners.

Now I just need to decide what to do with it! Personally I don't like the silver colour........

90591

[JDNSW]

Sounds like you have really done well with research, I suggest that the matte khaki paint probably means that it went into the British Army before UN service - if bought straight into UN service I would think the white UN paint would have gone straight on the green.

Whereabouts are you? I wouldn't mind seeing it some time.

John

[Warb]

We're in the Mudgee/Gulgong area. PM me if you're passing through - I have it in my head you're near Dubbo somewhere? Or maybe you just mentioned Dubbo in a post at some point?

[JDNSW]

Yes, about 60k out of Dubbo. I don't often get to your area, and when I do it is usually trying to get to Sydney or Newcastle in a day, so in a bit of a rush, but I do get that way occasionally.

John

[UncleHo]

That vehicle sounds like a British MOD Series 3 LWB,as I have a 1980 ex MOD lightweight (S3 88" Airportable) which is ex-Brunei, yours would have the heavy rimmed headlights without the normal S3 civilian headlight surround plates,the tail lights are probably the mushroom screw type as are mine,this sounds like an ex MOD LWB vehicle that was a private import at about the time of the Olympics,my vehicle was originally bought by the previous owner from a person in Sydney by the name of Brown,it appears he deals in ex-military vehicles from wherever, that is the only information I have.

[Warb]

.....,this sounds like an ex MOD LWB vehicle that was a private import at about the time of the Olympics........

I've made a number of enquiries, and I'm now fairly certain that this is indeed an ex MOD vehicle.

I haven't, as yet, written to Nike to see if they have any record of their bit of the story, but I have spoken to a dealer who claims to have full knowledge of the "Nike Olympic Land Rovers" and he has stated categorically that the story is true; Nike did import a bunch of ex-UN Land Rovers from Africa and equip them with custom roofs and trailers, and apparently he has had subsequent involvement with them. He even mentioned the name of someone who he knew still had one of the trailers, but the name meant nothing to me!

The details are as you describe, mushroom lights, no headlight surrounds etc. The removal of some paint has also revealed a green/black camo paint scheme, and during disassembly a 1993 L1 A2 5.56x45mm blank cartridge emerged. The UN apparently never carry blanks, so it looks like this vehicle was still in the hands of the British army in the mid 90's.

I would be interested to know if yours has a civilian style Land Rover ID plate (the black Solihull chassis number plate, assuming it is also pre "standardised VIN") in addition to any military nomenclature plates, and if so what axle weights are specified. There seems to be some deviation from the accepted norms, and even from the specs as stated in the Army documentation. It had me worried at first, but I've since found other examples that share the same data!

[UncleHo]

My lightweight has a momenclature plate (military ID plate) fixed to the right side of the dash panel near the door it's about 60mm square,it gives the vehicle's make,series,type,and chassis No. Yours could have similar or the 4screw holes where it has been,my vehicle was from a group of vehicles brought into Darwin from Brunei in 1999, they were impounded by Customs & AQIS and eventually auctioned off,there was also a couple? Of LWBs and 2? Bedford 3ton trucks,yours could be from that lot :)

cheers