d2 charging voltage

[shack]

Hi,

my td5 d2 doesn't seem too put out high enough voltage to charge my secondary batteries, its ok when everything is cold, but as soon as it heats up the voltage drops considerably, to the extent that if i start it with the a/c on it won't make the 13.2 volts required to link the bateries.This problem is much worse in summer when the ambient temps are much higher of course. I have checked a friends d2 and its doing the same, i believe they have a temperature adjusted alternator, is there something wrong with this? would a new regulator and brushes fix the problem, or are they all like this?

and yes I have checked everything with a good multimeter:)

cheers james

[PhilipA]

Hmm, I have just noticed that mine is running at about 13.6.

One factor that causes them to run low is the drag from the electric fan which AFAIK cuts in with aircon on at 28C ambient. I got out and checked mine yesterday and sure enough it was buzzing away. It is a big fan.

When the fan is not on mine runs at about 13.9 which is about right. When I was driving home yesterday I turned the aircon off and it jumped to 13.9 so it IMHO is the aircon and fan combo.

The reason I was checking mine is that last weekend I hosed out the engine bay and ever since have had the CANBUS polling sound in the AM band of the radio. This is a beat about 5-10 times a second. I know it is CANBUS because it changed when I changed gears with ignition on acc. The CANBUS seems to remain active for some time after switch off.

It only started after I had hosed out the engine bay so I cleaned all the battery and earth to body connections I could find and cleaned and reseated the ECU plugs..
No noise when moving the car in the garage so hopefully I have fixed it.
The earth on my AUX battery was dirty so that may have been it.

SO IMHO , you may have a combination of dirty terminals and high drain from the aircon electric fan.
Regards Philip A

PS I don't think as delivered they have a temperature varied alternator, but I have seen on UK sits that some of the replacement regulators have an extra wire and this is for an ECU controlled reduction in voltage as per a D3/D4. AFAIR these put out the default low voltage unless there was a signal from the ECU and a bridge between terminals has to be cut.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

The reason I was checking mine is that last weekend I hosed out the engine bay and ever since have had the CANBUS polling sound in the AM band of the radio. This is a beat about 5-10 times a second. I know it is CANBUS because it changed when I changed gears with ignition on acc.
Regards Philip A

Is that what that is Phillip?!?
its a strange sound!

[discorevy]

Noticed you said auxiliary batteries , how many are you running ?
Do you have an adjustable isolater? ?.
.

[PhilipA]

Is that what that is Phillip?!?
its a strange sound!

Yes I am sure because I also had a situation with an Xtrail that my daughter bought and nobody could get the CANBUS noise out of the phone car kit. Same noise.
I couldn't get a good go at it because she was not living at home, but it was never resolved in her case as they powered the car kit directly from the battery and tried several other different things including replacing the kit twice. Maybe a capacitor in the positive may have helped.
It also made a difference yesterday when I changed out of park and across the gears even in ACC. Logical I guess as the ECU must know it is in park before allowing cranking.
Regards Philip A

[shack]

I have 2 optimas, I have tried it with just one hooked up with no difference,and extra cables--no difference

the vsr i have is not adjustable,
the thing that gets me is it charges about 14v when cold,and my optimas sit at 13.6, then after half an hour of driving the main battery is at just over 13 and the optimas drop to about 12.7-12.9 driving along, they will not charge very well at this rate, and when i turn off the car they drop straight to about 12.1- 12.3v,

just wondering what voltage others are seeing at their main battery while running when everything is hot.

[sierrafery]

It should be above 13.5 either way, and if the load increases like when the fan kicks in or other it drops at first but then the alternator must ''compensate'' and rise to close to 14, i dont have two batteries but if i switch on the heated seats, screens, main beam, etc it happens exactly like in the description Defender Discovery 2 5 Diesel TD5 1998 2006 Alternator Regulator Brushbox | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEFENDER-DISCOVERY-2-5-DIESEL-TD5-1998-2006-ALTERNATOR-REGULATOR-BRUSHBOX-/291339207441?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item43d52b8311) , though the high temperatures can affect this thing as well but it never happened to me in the summer either

[onebob]

phew! i was worried mine was charging too high...

I installed a VDO analog Volt Gauge years ago and my D2 TD5 alternator output after cold start is over 14.5V (a needle width below 15V) and after 20 minutes or so falls back to 13.5V and stays there as long as the engine is running. I have a small 35 A/Hr Waeco fridge battery which is connected in parrallel with my 1000 CCA Cat cranking battery but only whilst the engine is running.

onebob

[Farva]

I'm experiencing the same problem.... Have many replaced the regulator and bushing before? While it may only take 15 minutes to replace once the alternator is out, how long does it take to take the alternator out?

[ballbag]

3 minutes.

[Redback]

Here's what should happen;

When you start the car, the voltage should be around the 14.0 to 14.3(from memory of my old D2)then after about 30mins of driving it will settle to 13.4 to 13.7, but usually 13.6 is where it's most constant, when you test the main battery, the auxillary batteries should be the same.

If you test the main battery and your voltage isn't going past 13.2 with the motor running, then I would say it's the alternator, or at least alternator related, have it checked, most auto elecs will do it for free.

Baz.

[shack]

I bought the kit yesterday to replace the brushes and reg, from memory i think it would take most people a bit longer than 3 mins too remove the alt:)

anyway , I'll post back with my results once it arrives and I get it installed

[Mundy]

Deja vu all over again. I raised the question by OP some about a year ago.

My D2a does the same. Cold alternator outputs 14.6V, hot 13.6V. At the risk of starting an argument (again), I solved my second battery charging issue with a Ctek dc to dc charger. Has other advantages but lets not start.

[shack]

I have been seriously thinking about that as well, just didn't know they existed !
,I've looked on here but not found any info, anyway the last couple days been pretty cool in the morning, 18 today for instance ,and its charging like a champion, find it very frustrating

mundy could you please link too your post about it ?

found it

[Eevo]

dont waste your time with a dc to dc charger
plenty of info on this forum why they are a waste of time (literally) and money.

[shack]

The only thing that would make me get one would be if I cant get the charging voltage up on the car, it may be putting out plenty of amps but if it never gets above 12.8 or 12.9 volts it will take forever to charge a battery,as i said before, its ok when cold,but when hot it's useless

[Eevo]

13.6volts will still charge.
if its below 13.6 when hot, something is wrong

[Fluids]

Mine was always 14.2 to 14.6v regardless. Then one day it started doing what the OP has outlined. It can be mid 14s from a cold start but it eventually bounces between 13.13 and 13.94 by the Evo2. Makes charging the camper batteries a bit dubious.

I bought a new Denso alternator and they are specd as a 14v alternator (fixed, no temp compensation). It's specd for charging the original fitted D2 battery which is a calcium battery and needs the higher charging voltage.

My research leads me to believe that if your alternator is producing sub 14v then the reg/rectifier is failing.

Once I fit the new Denso alternator I'll be able to compare ....

Sent from my iPhone using two tin cans and a length of twine

[Mundy]

I replaced my alternator with another original. The first one was stuffed by ingress of dirty water and grease. After change, same performance.

I don't disagree that if you have a highly discharged second battery then the initial charge will be quicker with the alternator even at 13.6V as my dc to dc charger limits charge current to 20amps but the alternator is not limited to that. However, once it gets past the initial charge, the dc charger increases the charging voltage to up to 14.6V to maintain the 20amp charge till the battery is fully charged which the alternator won't do at 13.6V (not for a long time anyway). For my type of usage (travelling and camping) I found it difficult to get the second battery to a full charge between camp spots. The ctek charger also has an efficient solar panel input which works for me and a battery maintenance function which should keep the battery in better shape longer.

I know there's a lot of differing opinion on this. I can only relay what I have found to work for me.

[shack]

So the new parts arrived,
went over to the workshop tonight too fit them, the ambient temp is only about 24 degrees and the thing is charging like a champ.

With the fridge running the optimas are sitting at 13.2 - 13.6 volts with the engine running, this has me concerned that there is nothing wrong with the alt, just that its not very efficient when hot, looks like a lot of work to do on the off chance it might help.

Has anyone else had this issue and fitted a new reg and brushes and seen any improvement?

[shack]

Good news everybody,

decided to fit the new reg and brushes today, longest "3 minutes" of my life,
had too buy more torx bits too get the alt off, anyway after much annoyance and fiddling, just got it all back together at 7pm, went for a spin and it is exactly the same as before,


anyway all up with tools and parts it cost $132 and 5 hrs labor for no improvement,

as a land rover owner I view this as one of my biggest success stories and suggest everyone give it a go.:)

cheers

[shack]

Well,
some differences I have noticed are:
1: the vehicle rpm effects the amount of charging voltage,before this made essentially no difference, at idle its barely making 12.9 volts, however

2:after some driving the alternator seems to have improved somewhat,it is holding voltage better at idle,and now

3:after another half hr of driving it seems to be charging at least as good,if not better than it ever has,this surprises me on several fronts,the only thing i can think of is that maybe there was some residue on the brushes, who knows, but here's the kicker,


4:So yesterday I decided too do some "extreme" backyard mechanicing, accidently shorted out something I shouldn't have been playing with, car would still start and run but no accessories would work inside,cig lighter radio, ac compressor would run but blower fan wouldn't and battery light was on, and battery wasn't charging, however all of this went away if i revved the engine up, except for the alt charging, even the battery light went off,it took some figuring out I can tell you,

blew this fuse: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/400347015264?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/400347015264?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)ssPageName=STRK%3AME BIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/400347015264?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

the alternator fuse, "made" a new one and its the best its ever been,:) funny thing is did an ohm test and it was still making a circuit, just wondering if this could be the problem for some others who have replaced the alt but made no difference

cheers james