If I buy a new D2a - What about this head issue?

[Islandnomad]

I've just written off my D2a, looking to replace it with a low kms 2003-4 D2a. Is there any way to test the head prior to buying it or is it pot luck?


I've seen one with 99,000 kms does the head issue manifest itself at that age, I thought that it developed over time?

[DiscoDB]

A D2a with 99,000 kms is just run in! Providing it has regular servicing your only real issue will be dealing with plastic bits that like to break after 10years. Don't believe the head problem was a big issue for the 15P motor. Yet to see the signs on mine at 479,000 kms.

[twr7cx]

Such low km on a vehicle of that age would give me concern as to why they are so much lower than the norm...

[Islandnomad]

Yes I agree it is just run in. The head issue is the same for all D2's I believe, my last 2004 D2 had its porous head replaced recently.


Yes also interesting to an 11 year old car with only 99000kms on it. Although there is a V8 2004 for sale at the moment with only 33000kms on it, amazing!

[Eevo]

my head went before 120k km

[DiscoDB]

my head went before 120k km

So based on our instant poll, that's an average expected life of 300k km. 😄

[Islandnomad]

The issue is having had 1 with a porous head, I don't want another. How can I test it prior to buying?

[loanrangie]

The issue is having had 1 with a porous head, I don't want another. How can I test it prior to buying?


You cant, if it has cooling issues walk away.

Top of your list should be a snorkel :p.

[Islandnomad]

I guess the other answer to this question would be to go the V8 they are a lot cheaper too, wonder how much more fuel they use?

[PhilipA]

From Carsguide

Long time owner Joe McGarry says he gets 10 L/100 from his turbo-diesel on the highway when not towing. When towing his caravan he still gets 12-13 L/100 km. New owner Allan Pope also gets 10 L/100 km on the highway. Petrol models gulp up to 40 per cent more than the turbo-diesel. Land Rover claimed the V8 would average 16.7 L/100 km, the turbo-diesel 9.4 L/100 km.

Sounds about right to me. I get around 11.5 l per 100 around extra urban from a TD5 and a bout 12.5 towing my 1tonne camper.
I guess the major reason I bought a diesel is range and cost of fuel as I do long tripseg a lap of 17Kk last year. I reckon I saved about $3K in fuel compared to my RRC 3.9 with many fuel saving mods.

But I really just wanted to try out a diesel and see if I could live with them.I really like my TD5 as it has character.

But if you do smaller distance the V8 may be OK.

BUT V8s have their own problems with the poms estimating that over 50% of 4.0 litres get slipped sleeves and it is almost certain if they are ever overheated. Cheap 4 and 4.6 are getting harder and harder to find.

High mileage V8s also have lots of wear problems with cams , lifters, head gaskets, and the infamous water pumps. ( but then there are some cherry V8s around with less than 100KK, and you will be VERY lucky to find a TD5 with under 100KK) I felt lucky to find a 134KK one which now has 168KK with no huge expense problems so far.

So unless you are unlucky with a TD5 and have a porous head, or the avoidable oil pump bolt they seem to last well.

IMHO a lot of the problems with TD5 are the result of remapping causing greater heat and the warped manifolds, blown headgaskets, and maybe cracked heads.
You pays your money and you makes your choice .
But I like TD5s and would not consider a V8.
Regards Philip A

[Pedro_The_Swift]

The Holy Grail is 14LPH,,
towing or beachwork can double that.:angel:

[Eevo]

The Holy Grail is 14LPH,,
towing or beachwork can double that.:angel:

driving at 70km/h on the highway (like td5 owners), my v8 gets about about 13.5l/h.

driving along the tanami was about 20l/h

city driving is bad, about 24l/h.

having said that, the torque, power and sounds of the v8 is unmatched.

[Islandnomad]

Slipped sleeves jeez! I remember my mechanic showing me that once, just bad design isn't it?


Just spoke to my mechanic, he said that there is no way to tell about this TD5 cracked head issue, some crack, some don't.


I think I should stay away from the Discovery probably as a result. Too risky! Shame I've had 4 of them, great car.....really like them too!

[PhilipA]

driving at 70km/h on the highway (like td5 owners), my v8 gets about about 13.5l/h.



Ha Ha Good one.
I get 12.5 with mine towing the 1 tonne camper at posted speed limits (ahem) including 110plus run ups to big climbs.
The one time I tootled along east of Esperence at 80Kmh ( or a bit more to keep the TC locked) for a day without the camper , I got about 8.5L per 100km.
Funnily enough I find the biggest difference is extra urban (NSW Central Coast) where my RRC 3.9 with o2 sensors and much more would get 18-20, the TD5 gets 11.5.
Regards Philip A

[Islandnomad]

I did see a 2004 D2a with 33,000 kms yesterday, it was a V8, I've had 4 x TD5's, but I was tempted with an almost new car for $16k, sold yesterday tho....


I just like the D2, can't get away from it, I'm a D2 tragic!

[gusthedog]

I did see a 2004 D2a with 33,000 kms yesterday, it was a V8, I've had 4 x TD5's, but I was tempted with an almost new car for $16k, sold yesterday tho....


I just like the D2, can't get away from it, I'm a D2 tragic!

That's coz they're the best ;)

I like mine better than my folks 200 series Sahara. And I can buy 11 or 12 disco's for the price they paid for theirs :D

[Eevo]

Ha Ha Good one.
:p couldnt help myself

[Pippin]

If you buy another TD5 and get salvage of your wet one you won't have to worry about the head.
Nick

[discorevy]

Maybe all the v8 owners have to use l/h as a measurement coz it looks better than their l/hundred figures:eek:;)

[Eevo]

Maybe all the v8 owners have to use l/h as a measurement coz it looks better than their l/hundred figures:eek:;)

i dont know about others, but i was using l/h as liters per hundred km, not per hour.

[discorevy]

My bad, just saw Pedro's post and interpreted that as the well known
Litres Per Hour, which would be the same ,but only if doing a constant 100kph:)

[Eevo]

My bad, just saw Pedro's post and interpreted that as the well known
Litres Per Hour, which would be the same ,but only if doing a constant 100kph:)

not always.

100km/h on the black top uses less than 100km/h on sand.



liters per hour, is a good measurement for flying

[discorevy]

The method of measurement is what I am referring to
100k is 100 k
1hour is 1 hour
Eg: beach @100 kph 24 litres = 24 lph = 24 litres /hundred k
Blacktop @ 100kph 12 litres = 12 lph = 12 litres / hundred k
Litres per hour is also marine terminology as well as flying

[gusthedog]

By 'k' I assume you either mean 'km' the abbreviation for kilometres or 'kmh' the abbreviation of kilometres per hour?

[discorevy]

.....k ? :)

[Eevo]

k!!

[PhilipA]

I think the D2 is not a Manuel but an auto.

Regards Philip A

[Islandnomad]

I think my post is getting hijacked.


Just found a D2a in Cairns for $8k

[discorevy]

I think the D2 is not a Manuel but an auto.

Regards Philip A

Ha ha nice one, so no auto's in Barcelona then. Apparently the Manuel's are all fawlty
Sorry about that Island nomad
Can you buy your old one back?.

[Rok_Dr]

From Carsguide
Sounds about right to me. I get around 11.5 l per 100 around extra urban from a TD5 and a bout 12.5 towing my 1tonne camper.
I guess the major reason I bought a diesel is range and cost of fuel as I do long tripseg a lap of 17Kk last year. I reckon I saved about $3K in fuel compared to my RRC 3.9 with many fuel saving mods.

But I really just wanted to try out a diesel and see if I could live with them.I really like my TD5 as it has character.

But if you do smaller distance the V8 may be OK.

BUT V8s have their own problems with the poms estimating that over 50% of 4.0 litres get slipped sleeves and it is almost certain if they are ever overheated. Cheap 4 and 4.6 are getting harder and harder to find.

High mileage V8s also have lots of wear problems with cams , lifters, head gaskets, and the infamous water pumps. ( but then there are some cherry V8s around with less than 100KK, and you will be VERY lucky to find a TD5 with under 100KK) I felt lucky to find a 134KK one which now has 168KK with no huge expense problems so far.

So unless you are unlucky with a TD5 and have a porous head, or the avoidable oil pump bolt they seem to last well.

IMHO a lot of the problems with TD5 are the result of remapping causing greater heat and the warped manifolds, blown headgaskets, and maybe cracked heads.
You pays your money and you makes your choice .
But I like TD5s and would not consider a V8.
Regards Philip A

Hi Phillip

Great summary. Having trod a similar path as you from a soft dash classic to td5 D2a I couldn't have put it better myself. Only thing to add is I get 14-15l/100km towing a 1.8 tonne van.

I find the D2a gives me the right balance of old vs new tech and luxury, plus the td5 has enough power and torque for my needs. Where else can you find beam axles and separate chassis with cruise, climate control, abs, airbags, full time 4wd and auto (if desired) without spending a mint optioning up a defender?

But to answer islandnomads question. I wouldn't obsess about heads being a problem. The weaknesses of the d2 are well known and a pre purchase inspection by a land rover specialist should uncover them. I'd also be wanting to see a good service history supported by actual invoices to support the Kms travelled.

Cheers

Steve

[Fluids]

driving at 70km/h on the highway (like td5 owners), my v8 gets about about 13.5l/h.

LOL!!!

That's a BAD day driving at 110 for me .... Or an average day towing a loaded KK.

70km/hr ... Ha

:)

Sent from my iPad using Braille

[Eevo]

LOL!!!

That's a BAD day driving at 110 for me .... Or an average day towing a loaded KK.

70km/hr ... Ha

:)

Sent from my iPad using Braille


list of mythical creature:
unicorn
yetti
td5 owners driving over 70kh/h

:p

[Pedro_The_Swift]

list of mythical creature:
unicorn

non- chipped TD5 owners that are happy with the cars performance

yetti
td5 owners driving over 70kh/h

:p

:angel::angel::angel:

[Fluids]

Why is it that the V8 drivers bag out the Td5 owners ...

... but the Td5 drivers don't bag out the V8 drivers ?

Got something to do with the colour GREEN ?

:Rolling:

Love your work guys! ;)

[Islandnomad]

What on earth is wrong with the performance of an unchipped TD5?????

[Rok_Dr]

Nothing!

I think Pedro is getting mixed up with series 3 diesels :D:D:D

If not then I'm the unicorn and I should have asked the ENT surgeon to fit a horn while I was under the knife earlier in the week (but that's another story) ;)

Cheers
Steve

[Fluids]

... but then, by the time my Td5 is getting close to being run-in .... YOUR V8 is up for a rebuild !!!

Ooops ... did I say that ? :Rolling:

Here endeth, the bagging :angel:

:)

[Eevo]

we all know td stands for total disaster :D

[Islandnomad]

Definitely hijacked!!!!

[clubagreenie]

V8's pay for fuel.
Diesels pay for rebuilds.

[Fluids]

Definitely hijacked!!!!

Sorry about that ;) ... Bit of friendly D2 jibing ...

We now return you to our scheduled programming.

IMHO I don't think the porous head issue is as common as it's made out to be. You only ever hear of the ones that have the issue, and never about all the ones that don't have the issue ... Right ?

A quick check using the blotter/copy paper method and dripping the engine oil off the dipstick onto the paper and checking the bloom that develops would be a quick and nasty way of initially assessing wether there was diesel in the engine oil from a porous head or leaking injectors ....

How is the hunt progressing ? The 2 examples Dr Rock posted looked good.

Sent from my iPad using Braille

[DiscoDB]

Sorry about that ;) ... Bit of friendly D2 jibing ...

We now return you to our scheduled programming.

IMHO I don't think the porous head issue is as common as it's made out to be. You only ever hear of the ones that have the issue, and never about all the ones that don't have the issue ... Right ?

A quick check using the blotter/copy paper method and dripping the engine oil off the dipstick onto the paper and checking the bloom that develops would be a quick and nasty way of initially assessing wether there was diesel in the engine oil from a porous head or leaking injectors ....

How is the hunt progressing ? The 2 examples Dr Rock posted looked good.

Sent from my iPad using Braille

I agree - I think the concern about head issues with the D2a is overstated. I am sure there have been plenty who have been convinced they had a problem by a repairer when the actual problem could as been as simple as leaking injector washers (which coincidently would be fixed with a new head as you would fit new washers on the injectors at the same time).

Go for a well maintained, low KM D2a, give it a remap, and then you will passing the V8's at both the petrol stations and on the road..... (-;

[Fluids]

Ooo Ooo he said V8 .... Can't help ourselves !

Can we ? :Rolling:

;)

Sent from my iPhone using two tin cans and a length of twine

[Eevo]

well and truly off topic


Q: How is a golf ball different from a TD5?
A: You can drive a golf ball 200 metres.

Q: Why are there footpaths beside streets?
A: So TD5 owners have a safe place to walk home.

Q. Whats the difference between a TD5 and a Tampon?
A. A tampon comes with its own tow rope


Q. How do you make a TD5 accelerate 0-60 km/h in less than 15 seconds?
A. Push it off a cliff.

Q. What is found on the last two pages of every TD5 owners manual?
A. The bus timetable.



Q. What do you call a TD5 at the top of a hill?
A. A miracle?

Q. What do you call two TD5's at the top of a hill?
A. A mirage.


Q. How do you make a TD5 go faster downhill?
A. Turn the engine off.

Q. Why don't TD5's sustain much damage in front end collisions?
A. The tow truck takes most of the impact.


Q. Whats the difference between a TD5 and a shopping cart?
A. A shopping cart is easier to push.


Q. What did the V8 say to the TD5?
A. Would you like a tow home?

[Islandnomad]

Off topic or not I did laugh out loud!

[discorevy]

V8's pay for fuel.
Diesels pay for rebuilds.

362000kilometres not even a rebuild in sight for my td5
how's the ultra reliable V8 going
Couldn't resist:p

[Islandnomad]

Not very nice things to say about TD5's, jeez. One of the best cars on the road in mho. Until you turn it into a submarine that is!!! Inside joke...

[DiscoDB]

I love the V8's. Once combined a new Disco 3.9L short motor with reconditioned 3.5L EFI Rangie Heads and fitted to a RR Classic. The combination was incredible. Lots of fun, and quick between fuel stops. Sounded so good.

I love the Td5. With an uprated intercooler and a tuning box (remap would be better) accelerates as quick as a the stock D2 V8, and since new has already saved me over $50,000 in fuel - that saving is as much as the car cost when new. And at 479k, the only thing that needs a rebuild is the gearbox.

Been tempted to upgrade to a D3 but can't decide between the Jag V8 or the Tdv6. Head says Diesel. Heart says V8. May just have to settle for a TdV8 RRS. If only they fitted this to the D3. Now that would have been the ultimate combination.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I can tell you nothing else LR make will catch a 2010 V8 D4,, I dont care how many re-maps you stick in it....;)

[tommo1166]

I did see a 2004 D2a with 33,000 kms yesterday, it was a V8, I've had 4 x TD5's, but I was tempted with an almost new car for $16k, sold yesterday tho....


I just like the D2, can't get away from it, I'm a D2 tragic!

Sounds like the one I got in Brisbane, came from Ascot, presumably used to go to bowling club once a week. Apparently traded on a new Disco.
When new it had all the treatments done, paint protection, corrosion protection, upholstery protection, window tint.
Only blemish I have found is driver's side window tint has a few blemishes. Otherwise could be just off showroom floor.

[bob10]

So, this is really a toyo/Nissan thread, isn't it. Anyone who knows anything about diesel engines will know the TD5 was the best diesel engine put into a land rover. It is not the engine that is the problem, it is the operators, and so called maintainers. The elephant in the room was the electronics. It frightened people. It may surprise some to know a TD5 D2 broke the record , driving from England to Cape town. Without a problem. Those who embraced the technology, took the time to understood the vehicle, realised what an asset it was, felt comfortable with it. As for engine changes, head problems, etc, another urban myth , but made reality in Australia in remote areas because no one knew how to maintain the vehicle.


Not the vehicles fault ,the IQ level here was below what was necessary. And now, we have V8 land rover drivers actually trying to convince us, their fuel guzzling, liner slipping engines, are the real deal. And we also have the 300tdi group , with no turbo, & timing belt issues, living in the past, refusing to accept the future of diesel engines. No wonder the Defender will be a thing of the past, unfortunately. Bob

[MR LR]

driving at 70km/h on the highway (like td5 owners), my v8 gets about about 13.5l/h.

driving along the tanami was about 20l/h

city driving is bad, about 24l/h.

having said that, the torque, power and sounds of the v8 is unmatched.
Cruising at 120 on the highway my td5 will return 10.8L/100km average, this jumps to 13.5l/100km when towing the ski boat (1 tonne) at THE SAME SPEED.

If I drop my cruising speed to 100kph it'll do 9's, and still stay around 13.5l/100km when towing about 3t.

My car is manual and chipped, and goes better than a stock V8...

[DiscoKym]

So, this is really a toyo/Nissan thread, isn't it. Anyone who knows anything about diesel engines will know the TD5 was the best diesel engine put into a land rover. It is not the engine that is the problem, it is the operators, and so called maintainers. The elephant in the room was the electronics. It frightened people. It may surprise some to know a TD5 D2 broke the record , driving from England to Cape town. Without a problem. Those who embraced the technology, took the time to understood the vehicle, realised what an asset it was, felt comfortable with it. As for engine changes, head problems, etc, another urban myth , but made reality in Australia in remote areas because no one knew how to maintain the vehicle.


I have an article in a 4WD magazine here somewhere that looked at ALL the new diesels in 4WD's. Their conclusion was of all the DID and CRD the only safe one for outback travel was the TD5 land Rover.

It shocked me to read it so I had to read it again.

They are quoting $23,000 to get a new V8 Landcruiser going again after dirty diesel. :o

[Epic_Dragon]

My td5 remembers towing a certain v8 out of saunders gorge eavo LOL! Not that it was motor related but still haha. Buy seriously my td5 most of its driving has always been 100kms or more. Even before chip.
On posters topic i dont think you will have issues with buying another d2a :)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

What on earth is wrong with the performance of an unchipped TD5?????

Oh look!
another one,,,
:tease:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/216592-remapping-td5.html