IT RUNS AGAIN!

[worane]

Got my beast running again. Thankyou Discorevy for pushing me towards The injector removal and reseat. One of the washers was showing tracking over the surface.
Also the washers from the Sunshine Coast were wrong, (hole in center was far too large).
It was a bit hard to get it running . It would not rev to start with but was getting better every time I tried starting it.
Just on dark , it started to pour rain so I left it till the morning . Time will tell.
I have to say the best thing I have done is to have RACV Ultimate cover.
They flatbedded me home this morning.
I am still not sure about the timing but will tackle that tomorrow after I have road tested it.

[discorevy]

Your welcome mate ,
Sounds like you have the rocker cover on already , but might be an idea to check cam timing before the test drive. Easier to do with fan off , turning crank clockwise with 24 mm socket
Cheers

[worane]

Hi again. Well it started after I got the juice pumped up to it. It could be that I had not finished clearing all the air yesterday.
When it started it would only run at idle , no throttle response. Suddenly it picked up and revved well.
When put into gear it was not going to move forward (auto).
Only by revving it out of gear and then selecting drive would it move, then it went well.
Drove it about 5 kms down the road still the same, not happy to take off. It only needed a few more revs to get it going. Is this the timing as I think it could be and do I change it by rotating the cam sprocket on the front. If this is so , by how much and when do I know when I have it right?

[Bundalene]

Probably worth doing an engine oil change before too long.





Erich

[discorevy]

Yes its your cam timing , have to go , but read last couple of pages on page 2 epic dragons headgasket yay , remember to turn motor by hand
Until you are sure you have it correct this is cam timing .... You don't want to bend valves
Cheers

[worane]

I have me a rocketship. played with the timing and all of a sudden it is pulling well again.
A big thank you to all of you who have taken the trouble to help another landrovian. This forum rocks.
It is also about learning about your rover and how it works. Thanks.
Regards Nick.
By the way , I changed the oil and filters after I put the head back on last week.

[Pippin]

This is an earlier post of mine below to Epic Dragon on getting the timing correct, if you do this with Discorevy's comments also you should get it right. The rattling should disappear as air in the injectors is finally displaced, but it may also be the lifters that have some residual air.





Ideally you need to lock both with pins, for the bell housing pin a drill of a suitable size will do to position the crank at TDC on No.1 cylinder. With the pin also in the camshaft the workshop manual describes the process as follows:
12. Check that mark on camshaft sprocket is positioned between the 2 coloured links on timing chain.
13. Position sprocket to camshaft, fit and lightly tighten 3 new bolts then loosen bolts half a turn.
14. Clean fixed guide Allen screw and apply Locktite 242 to screw threads.
15. Fit fixed timing chain guide Allen screw and tighten to 25 Nm (18 lbf.ft)
16. Clean timing chain tensioner and fit new sealing washer.
17. Fit timing chain tensioner and tighten to 45Nm (33 lbf.ft)
18. Tighten camshaft sprocket bolts to 37Nm (27lbf.ft)
Etc.....................................
Nick

[worane]

This morning I went to start the disco. Again it started well but was a little slow to rev to the throttle and ran a little roughly.
Later I drove it into town 35 kms.I found it a bit gutless and a little slow off the lights.
I now know it is timing on the cam sprocket but can anyone tell me from my description if I need to go clockwise or anti clockwise on the cam sprocket when I go to move it and how much I need to move.
It seems a bit of an ordeal to pull the fan and remove the rocker cover and lock the cam every time I want to move the timing. Then to have to put it all back only to have to do it again.
any suggestions welcome.
Regards Nick.(Worane)

[discorevy]

Lock crank at tdc from drivers side of bell housing , remove cam plug and rocker cover , camshaft cutout should line up exactly with hole , if not then , without letting crank move.. loosen 3cam sprocket bolts and turn cam until it lines up with cutout ... Without letting cam or crank move turn cam sprocket by hand as tight as you can anti clockwise when looking from front of car and tighten sprocket bolts to specs, this ensures no slack in chain
Seems a bit odd that it was running OK before .......you didn't use silicon between head halves by any chance?

[Pippin]

It Sounds like something else as the Cam timing is not that critical, were the lifters removed from the head and if so were all components kept in their proper order Cylinder 1,2 etc. also the lifters must be kept upright at all times. Discorevy also has a point re silicon.

[worane]

Yes the followers and every thing was removed to do the machining of the head.
I was a bit misleading about it running so well . Everything is a bit relative when it has not been running for a week.
I took it to be going well. However when it was taken into heavy traffic in the city it did show it's faults.
Main reason for the gasket change was pressurization of the coolant it ran like a clock before that.
Thank you both for your help. I will have a go at it tomorrow.
I have not been locking the crank in the bell housing. It is auto. What do I lock is with? I don't see why I have to lock it if the cam is not moving . What am I not seeing?
Also I note that when the detent in the cam is in line with the pin hole on top that the cam is not anywhere near the highest point of the cam lobe.Is this wrong?
No, no silicone in the halfs.

[discorevy]

Don't worry about cam lobe position as your probably looking at the lobe for the injector anyway. You can not get the cam timing correct without knowing if no1 piston is at Tdc , again , this is done by placing a locking pin or drill bit so that it lines up with the hole in the ring gear /flywheel ( I only do this once then mark with a paint pen on the harmonic balancer and a corresponding spot on the timing cover), then follow my above post, sorry to contradict you again pippin but cam timing is critical not just on td5s but all 4 strokes

[worane]

Yes I get it about locking the cam with a drill bit . but why lock the bell housing when the crank in not moving and with the cam locked.Also with the slow throttle response I have and running smelly (rich) that is going on , which direction do I turn the cam sprocket to regain my crisp acceleration?

[discorevy]

I said in my previous post to lock the crank with drill bit, you need to know where the crank is in relation to the cam , this needs to be correct , but if you just want to blindly advance the cam timing then turn the sprocket anti clockwise

[Pippin]

Discorevy I assume that after I have sent a previous post on the proper process for setting the Cam timing those instructions were followed reasonably closely hence my comment that it is not that critical. This post is getting a bit competitive, we are all trying to give the best advice but it is important that it is followed carefully and posts are not taken out of context.

[discorevy]

Yes I get it about locking the cam with a drill bit . but why lock the bell housing when the crank in not moving and with the cam locked.Also with the slow throttle response I have and running smelly (rich) that is going on , which direction do I turn the cam sprocket to regain my crisp acceleration?

Appreciate what your saying Pippin but you can see that hasn't been understood , so I am trying to give the best advice based on 30 years as a qualified mechanic , as I wouldn't like to see worane or anyone else bending valves , hence my reply to your statement of cam timing not being that critical . I don't view that as competitive..

[PhilipA]

I agree.

It's maybe not critical IF you are timing it against TDC .

But if you are not at TDC then the cam timing can be anywhere.

From his comments the OP doesn't seem to accept that he needs to find TDC . Maybe I misunderstand also but that is how I read his responses.

Maybe the OP can set us straight on how he is finding TDC if he is not using the method designed by Land Rover. IE drill or special tool from LR in flywheel.
Regards Philip A

[Pippin]

It all comes down to a really important point that work done on a TD5 and particularly the head should not be commenced until there is a good understanding of the process to be followed from Rave or a Workshop Manual and used as a guide through the process. Discorevy I apologise for getting a bit uptight but it is born out of frustration that the basic rules of this procedure are not being followed by many when attempting work on the head. If they had been the Cam timing would have been straightforward because the crank would have been set at TDC before the head was removed and many other potential problems avoided.

[worane]

Gentlemen,
I really do appreciate the trouble you are going to on my behalf.
I have locked the cam shaft with a drill bit and moved the crank to get to that position in a clockwise direction.
What my question was, and I have not so far got an understanding of, is Why do I have to lock the crankshaft as well as I have the drill bit peg in the camshaft so TDC should not be moving.
If I do have to lock the crank shaft through the bell housing, what size drill is best to use and does it drop into a detent? Or does it have to be screwed into place.
sorry to be so dense.
Regards Nick.

[worane]

I have just reread Discoverevvy"s previous posts and realize I missed the meaning of the bell housing pin he mentioned there.
This revelation makes my last post somewhat redundant,
However I still would like to know what sort of peg I need to use.
.

[PhilipA]

It looks like this.
91373
Regards Philip A