Selectro free wheeling hubs

[jamesnedtaylor]

Found my first leak after about 3 months after fixing them all coming from the o ring on the hub bit now gotta find a o ring that's about 3-4 inches may have to root around work for one :) I don't know why I'm happy about a leak but the joys of owning a Land Rover never a free moment :)


1969 109" 2a named loti

[Homestar]

Or ditch the free wheeling hubs... :angel:

[jamesnedtaylor]

I was really temped but I got all the normal set up I just need to clear up the garage (mud everywhere from flooding) to do anything that complex lol even tho I like the look of the freewheeling hubs :) im a strange fella me ;)


1969 109" 2a named loti

[ashhhhh]

Any of the usual places sell them, I bought mine through CLR spares when they were still operating.

You may find it still leaks though, one of mine actually has a groove worn into the alloy so the o-ring doesnt do its job anyway. JB Weld or something would probably solve it, havent bothered yet. :p

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Or ditch the free wheeling hubs... :angel:
As he said! :D

Less problems with the standard flanges, but seaking "O" rings is still one of them.

[gromit]

As he said! :D

Less problems with the standard flanges, but seaking "O" rings is still one of them.

An O-ring supplier should be able to help.
My local guy prefers to measure the actual housing rather than a tired/damaged/hard O-ring that's been removed.
I think they will splice them from a length for static applications

Renseal (http://www.renseal.com.au/)


Colin

[jamesnedtaylor]

An O-ring supplier should be able to help.
My local guy prefers to measure the actual housing rather than a tired/damaged/hard O-ring that's been removed.
I think they will splice them from a length for static applications

Renseal (http://www.renseal.com.au/)


Colin

Thanks Colin,lotz of landies, ash

Gunna pop into a few of my local shops to see if I can find one to me it dosnt look to bad but as I well know all it takes is one lil nick

:) James


1969 109" 2a named loti

[vnx205]

I know that a lot of members criticise free-wheeling hubs and I know that there is the potential for some minor problems, however, you shouldn't assume that you will definitely have problems or that you should get rid of them immediately.

When I bought my 1973 LWB Series III in 1980, it had free-wheeling hubs. It still had them 200,000 km later in 2006, when I sold it. I only locked them in when I needed them. During that time they did not cause any problems.

Whether they provided any benefit is hardly relevant, since I didn't have to pay for them or fit them.

While it might not be worth spending the money to buy them, if they are already there, then it is possible that you will have the same trouble free run that I had. In which case it isn't worth the effort to remove them.

[Homestar]

I guess I haven't been as lucky then. Of the 2 vehicles I've had with them fitted when I bought them, both had massive failures - I'm talking a handful of metal fragments... One was already knackered when I bought it, the other we (my brother and I) killed on about the second trip we did in our 2a. Weren't doing anything that the axles couldn't handle, but it was the end of our fun for the day.

If you've used them without issue, great news, but I think it just adds one more point of failure, which I have seen fail twice.

[jamesnedtaylor]

I know it's almost blasphemy but I very much doubt loti will go off roading much but they were on her when I got her never thought of the problems they may give me later on just a part of her history and I've tried to keep her as I got her if I end up breaking one of them I have a spare diff (normal cap ) that I would change but i agree I have seen other post that don't like them maybe some of us are lucky :)


1969 109" 2a named loti

[vnx205]

Maybe some brands are better than others. Mine were AVM.

[S3ute]

Hello from Brisbane.

For what it's worth I fitted a set of AVM hubs to a 109" we had on our farm back in the 80s. It was in the foothills of the Barrington Range in the Hunter and rarely out of low range. Never had any problems in nearly 20 years.

Having said that, I have no plans to fit freewheeling hubs to my present truck which doesn't have them and is mainly going to get road use. General opinion seems to be that freewheeling hubs offer little gain for the cost.

Cheers,

[JDNSW]

In my experience of free wheeling hubs over the last fifty years, I have yet to see any fail, although I have seen a few give trouble (oil leaks common).

The problem with them on Series Landrovers, in my opinion, is not that they are likely to fail, but that they offer little benefit, but do run the risk of lubrication failure on the top swivel bushing, as this depends on oil thrown by the spinning U-joint. This can be avoided by simply engaging four wheel drive (not on the move) for at least a few hundred metres every week or so.

I have tried my current 2a carefully with hubs engaged and disengaged, and can find no appreciable difference in performance, and no measurable difference in fuel consumption. In practice, I leave them engaged all the time except when doing long distance highway driving.

John

[numpty]

Or ditch the free wheeling hubs... :angel:

What he said :D

Seriously though, if they're no trouble, leave them on. I've just replaced the old MAP fwh's on my S1 with standard flanges as one had a cracked outer plate and leaked oil. As John said, I've never been able to distinguish any advantages or disadvantages one way or the other.

[S3ute]

Hello again.

I only have experience with the Warn, AVM, and Aisin (on Toyotas) hubs, so can't relate to Fairey types etc. However, I often wonder if some of the reported failures are due to not operating the hubs correctly.

An old mechanic at CSIRO originally pointed out to me that locking the hubs didn't necessarily lock the hubs unless you heard the audible click of the ring gear engaging. Sure enough if you didn't hear it but gently rocked the truck back or forward more often than not you would hear that "click, click" as they engaged. My thoughts are that some folks lock the hub then engage 4wd, especially low, and stick the gin into it when the hubs have only partly engaged the axle - the result.....

So, for travel in the back blocks we would engage the hubs when you met the gravel, ensure they had engaged by slowly taking up the clutch and off you went. Never had any trouble with them. But again, we only used free wheeling hubs because the trucks came fitted with them.

Cheers,

[UncleHo]

I have AVM's on the 2a and when it was the daily driver I would engage them for 10klm every week,so that they stirred the oil in the swivel housings and rotated the front prop shaft to negate spline wear,now that it is on historic rego and not used much I leave them engaged for trips of less than 50k, I did find a very slight improvement in performance and fuel economy with front drive disengaged.

cheers

[jamesnedtaylor]

I beleave I spelt mine wrong here's a pic :) 91384


1969 109" 2a named loti

[JDNSW]

Hello again.

.......
An old mechanic at CSIRO originally pointed out to me that locking the hubs didn't necessarily lock the hubs unless you heard the audible click of the ring gear engaging. Sure enough if you didn't hear it but gently rocked the truck back or forward more often than not you would hear that "click, click" as they engaged. My thoughts are that some folks lock the hub then engage 4wd, especially low, and stick the gin into it when the hubs have only partly engaged the axle - the result.....

So, for travel in the back blocks we would engage the hubs when you met the gravel, ensure they had engaged by slowly taking up the clutch and off you went. Never had any trouble with them. But again, we only used free wheeling hubs because the trucks came fitted with them.

Cheers,

The only hubs I have actually owned, Warn and Husky, had arrows or other marks to show when the hub is engaged.

Neither use a ring gear - Warn use a dog clutch that has the hub part moved axially by a multistart thread - it has pointed ends on the teeth for easy engagement, although if the transfer case is in four wheel drive it is possible that the dog clutch may still refuse to engage, but this is clearly indicated by the markings on the hub.

The Husky hubs have four substantial steel keys that move radially to engage, with engagement by spring and disengagement by cam. If the keys are not opposite the keyway, they will engage within a quarter turn of the wheel.

John

[JDNSW]

I beleave I spelt mine wrong here's a pic :) 91384


1969 109" 2a named loti

Just a minor spelling error!

John

[S3ute]

The only hubs I have actually owned, Warn and Husky, had arrows or other marks to show when the hub is engaged.

Neither use a ring gear - Warn use a dog clutch that has the hub part moved axially by a multistart thread - it has pointed ends on the teeth for easy engagement, although if the transfer case is in four wheel drive it is possible that the dog clutch may still refuse to engage, but this is clearly indicated by the markings on the hub.

The Husky hubs have four substantial steel keys that move radially to engage, with engagement by spring and disengagement by cam. If the keys are not opposite the keyway, they will engage within a quarter turn of the wheel.

John

John,

Yes you are correct that they have arrows on the outside to mark engaged and free, but for the hubs I was referring to the inner mechanism (I probably incorrectly called it a ring gear - in the AVMs there is a toothed ring held laterally by springs) that locks the freewheeling outer hub to the driven inner axle bearing frequently doesn't immediately engage until the teeth actually line up. This is the quarter turn I suppose.

On the Toyotas it was quite common to turn the mechanisms and line the arrows up - but the inners and outers didn't necessarily immediately lock. Once the hub and wheel starts to rotate they generally do - hence the click which is quite audible. This is fine on a gravel road where you use the 4wd for stability, but in a hilly situation where you might stop, engage the locks and them immediately power off in low range there is the chance to strip the engaging mechanism and/or overload the rear axles.

That was the theory anyway.... Never found out.

Cheers,

[jamesnedtaylor]

:) yeah I'm not very good with spelling as I'm dyslexic but I give the grammar nazis something to do :)


1969 109" 2a named loti

[JDNSW]

John,

Yes you are correct that they have arrows on the outside to mark engaged and free, but for the hubs I was referring to the inner mechanism (I probably incorrectly called it a ring gear - in the AVMs there is a toothed ring held laterally by springs) that locks the freewheeling outer hub to the driven inner axle bearing frequently doesn't immediately engage until the teeth actually line up. This is the quarter turn I suppose.

On the Toyotas it was quite common to turn the mechanisms and line the arrows up - but the inners and outers didn't necessarily immediately lock. Once the hub and wheel starts to rotate they generally do - hence the click which is quite audible. This is fine on a gravel road where you use the 4wd for stability, but in a hilly situation where you might stop, engage the locks and them immediately power off in low range there is the chance to strip the engaging mechanism and/or overload the rear axles.

That was the theory anyway.... Never found out.

Cheers,

The Husky hubs I mention above would be likely to fail in the scenario you suggest, as they would not engage until the keyways lined up. It sound as if the hubs you describe would work like the Warn ones I am familiar with but with spring loaded engagement, which would have the effect you describe. Perhaps a different model Warn, with the spring loading intended to solve the problem I mentioned where it would not engage.

John

[dandlandyman]

Those alloy Selectro units are the only ones I don't like - the outer cap fastenings are too fragile. I have only one set of those where the main housing is cast iron but I don't know if that solves the problem.

At the moment I much prefer the AVM units (similar to Warns and later Selectros). I've put a set of Fairey units on my Series 3 trayback so I can get a bit of experience with them. I have one set of MAP hubs on a S2A 6cyl I got from 'Marko66' but for the foreseeable future I can't get any experience with them. The English market seems to like them though.

I do notice just a little extra drag and steering reaction when I have them in, but it's not much of anything.

[Bull]

Gday James,

Did you manage to find a replacement O-rings for your hubs. I went through the same drama with leaking hubs. I took my whole hub down to a specialist seal place in Sydney and got it measured up. I ask asked for for a slightly thicker seal seal and they gave me a 63x2mm o-ring. They are a perfect fit, very snug. Dirt cheap too about $6 for 4. Time will time how well they work.

[simmo]

Hi If you measure the ID of the O ring and the width of the O ring groove with your vernier the local repco or bearing service place will be able to help. If you get the right O ring it should not be a problem. You should not need to have them made , the hub maker will normally select an an O ring from the standard series of O rings. In this case probably the "imperial sizes".

http://www.fluidseals.com.au/files/IMPERIAL%20O%20RING%20SIZES%20BS1806%20AS568A.pdf

This link will give you a free chart.
The O ring section should be a little bit less than the width of the groove , so the two surfaces can clamp metal to metal and the o ring can crush into the groove. Example if the o ring groove is 1/8" wide and you put a 3 mm section metric O ring in the o ring will stand proud by about 0.25 mm, it should work well. I little bit of grease on the O rings is good, if desperate some RTV Blue will guarantee a seal. good luck.

[jamesnedtaylor]

Thanks all i got an o ring and fixed that side i took the other side of and its cracked all the casing so chasing down one of them :)


Thanks again
James