Seriously Bogged

[Boggs]

Finally put my D4 to the test on some very sandy tracks towing a camper trailer and got seriously bogged. (don't ask how.. embarrassing and irrelevant!). It was on a sunken sandy beachside track and the first time in three decades I have needed the assistance of another vehicle to get out. Normally on industrial vehicles I would have used the high lift jack to crank up each wheel but no hard points on this baby so didn't carry one. On board I had recovery mats, shovel and an exhaust jack. No good.. the bag just raised the chassis higher while the unbelievable suspension travel prevented the wheels coming off the dirt to get the mats under them. digging under the wheels just caused them to disappear into the hole.
I reckon you have to dig a hole metres deep to get the wheels off the ground!
When a bull bar becomes available for the MY14/15 models I will certainly be installing a winch and buying a sand plate.
As for the OEM jack.. what a piece of ****.. I wouldn't even try changing a wheel on the bitumen with that.. another item to be replaced.

[eddomak]

On board I had recovery mats, shovel and an exhaust jack. No good.. the bag just raised the chassis higher while the unbelievable suspension travel prevented the wheels coming off the dirt to get the mats under them. digging under the wheels just caused them to disappear into the hole.
I reckon you have to dig a hole metres deep to get the wheels off the ground!


Just thinking aloud here, and absolutely no experience here to speak of, but in such an instance would it be possible to pull the EAS fuse (#26?) to prevent air suspension from extending? Of course this would need to be done pre-emptively in this situation.

I just ask because I had to pull the fuse to install the GOE rods the other night.

[Geedublya]

Just thinking aloud here, and absolutely no experience here to speak of, but in such an instance would it be possible to pull the EAS fuse (#26?) to prevent air suspension from extending? Of course this would need to be done pre-emptively in this situation.

I just ask because I had to pull the fuse to install the GOE rods the other night.

Actually you need to do the opposite and extend the suspension as far as possible. Once it can't droop any further the jack starts to lift the wheel. LLAMS, rods or an IIDTool are useful to do this.

[eddomak]

Actually you need to do the opposite and extend the suspension as far as possible. Once it can't droop any further the jack starts to lift the wheel. LLAMS, rods or an IIDTool are useful to do this.
I thought Boggs was saying that the problem was he couldn't lift the vehicle high enough (beyond the reach of the suspension) to get something under it. So if you pull the fuse first to "freeze" the suspension where it is, then lift, put something under the tyre, and either lower the car or re-insert the fuse, the tyre would now be on some grippy stuff.

[Boggs]

I thought Boggs was saying that the problem was he couldn't lift the vehicle high enough (beyond the reach of the suspension) to get something under it. So if you pull the fuse first to "freeze" the suspension where it is, then lift, put something under the tyre, and either lower the car or re-insert the fuse, the tyre would now be on some grippy stuff.

An interesting idea, but I doubt any "freezing" of the suspension would stop the wheels dropping. Likely wheels and suspension components have enough weight to pull a vacuum on the airbag. Whether the vacuum pulled would eventually reach critical level to stop the drop before end of suspension travel is debateable.. proof would be in the pudding...

[eddy]

I think the procedure is something like put the suspension into off road mode,switch off, place jack under the strut arm...probably have to dig a hole to get it in there.....jack it up about an inch...wait a few seconds then lower it about half an inch.Suspension will raise the wheel enough to place your trax underneath.Start the car with doors shut,vehicle will go into extended mode, onto the trax, enabling jack to be removed........drive off...put back into normal mode.
Qued....have a beer.....

Moderators remove this post if it compromises H&S!

PS...Just tried this in the shed....did not work!Must have one of the steps wrong?Should it be jack under chassis??

[Boggs]

I hate digging... gonna buy a winch... oops... need a bull bar first... now that's another issue....

[BobD]

Never had to dig yet in soft sand around Margaret River, Albany and Esperance. Every time I thought I was hopelessly bogged, I let more air out of the tyres, down to about 14 or 16 psi, put it in rock crawl mode and have just driven straight out without a problem, even without Maxtrax. It would be a lot more difficult with a camper trailer, however.

[coolum]

Many years ago ('80's) in a 2 door rangie On Standard tyres - Fraser Is - in the Far nth of the island I had to go through the back of the Dunes to get through a beach due to tide.


I was on about 15lbs all round but it wasn't getting through in 3rd Low range ..


I had a pump handy to reinflate so I dropped them to 8 lbs and just 'drove through' like no probs.. once back on the Hard beaches I pumped back up to norm.


Now the question - in a D3 with 18" 'What would be the absolute minimum pressure that be recommended to make sure the wheels stay on the beads and get you out of the soft stuff..


Yes --- bearing in mind its just to get you through the problem and then re-inflate.. I would not go off into the Tree roots afterwards as we know the sidewalls will only last seconds.


Would an 18" handle 8 lbs? for a short low speed run?

[eddy]

Probably another dodgy statement....but I think in an emergency in sand it should be ok to go down to 7Psi ie 0.5 Bar without too much steering input.
The disco is supposed to have rims that hang onto the tyres pretty well.

[Drizzle]

Now the question - in a D3 with 18" 'What would be the absolute minimum pressure that be recommended to make sure the wheels stay on the beads and get you out of the soft stuff..


Yes --- bearing in mind its just to get you through the problem and then re-inflate.. I would not go off into the Tree roots afterwards as we know the sidewalls will only last seconds.


Would an 18" handle 8 lbs? for a short low speed run?

Taken from the AULRO Discovery 3/4 & RRS FAQ ;)

"How do I drive in sand?
Select Sand mode in Terrain Response and ensure stability control (DSC) is switched off. Use low or high range depending on speed, and consider manually selecting gears, keeping the revs high in the soft stuff. Don't use HDC to descend in sand, come down on the gears, often 2/3 low or first high. Tyre pressure guide:

Rim size / pressure
17 / 16
18 / 18
19 / 20
20 / 22

You can go 50% lower than this in extremes but reinflate as soon as you can. Other variables for tyre pressure are weight and tyre construction. The tougher the tyre, the more you need to deflate it, and the greater the vehicle weight the less you can deflate.

All of the other sand driving techniques that can be found in many places apply.

Also have a read one of our classic threads -> http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-zone...ing-wrong.html"

[coolum]

Sounds like the official Min is around 9 psi .


Any lower and you could be in trouble .. however if your bogged and have no help, I guess its no real risk to go lower till you can get out .. as your stuffed anyway.


But you could end up destroying the tyres I guess .


Sounds like 9 is the min for Me.
Thanks all

[Celtoid]

Finally put my D4 to the test on some very sandy tracks towing a camper trailer and got seriously bogged. (don't ask how.. embarrassing and irrelevant!). It was on a sunken sandy beachside track and the first time in three decades I have needed the assistance of another vehicle to get out. Normally on industrial vehicles I would have used the high lift jack to crank up each wheel but no hard points on this baby so didn't carry one. On board I had recovery mats, shovel and an exhaust jack. No good.. the bag just raised the chassis higher while the unbelievable suspension travel prevented the wheels coming off the dirt to get the mats under them. digging under the wheels just caused them to disappear into the hole.
I reckon you have to dig a hole metres deep to get the wheels off the ground!
When a bull bar becomes available for the MY14/15 models I will certainly be installing a winch and buying a sand plate.
As for the OEM jack.. what a piece of ****.. I wouldn't even try changing a wheel on the bitumen with that.. another item to be replaced.


Hi Mate,


Did you say recovery mats or do you mean MaxTrax (or similar)?


I got bogged right to the floor pan on Moreton Is years ago .... sand was like talc. I had Scorpion ATRs on (19") at 18 PSI. Sand mode on and DSC off. Rock Crawl did not work either. I 'fooled' the suspension into contingency height .... but the car just sank again.


When I backed out there was a perfect print of the D4 on the sand .... the whole underside. :D


I used MaxTrax to get me out. I only dug a tiny bit in front of the wheel (well back as I was reversing) and the Trax were at a pretty steep angle off horizontal and the tyre just bit after a little bit of movement and out she came (car). Sunk straight away again ....LOL...and had to dig to recover the Maxtrax but second attempt (with a fraction more Welly once clear of the Trax) and she kept going.


Probably a lot harder with a trailer.


Cheers.

[discotwinturbo]

I have been as low as 10psi on the factory 19's. Climbed out of a deep bog easily in rock crawl, but just before put her in emergency height.

On 18's the lowest I have needed is 12psi and nothing will hold her back....and that was with my camper on the back also with 12psi.

Brett.....

[BobD]

I think the worst recovery I have done with Maxtrax is my son in law's GQ Patrol on a beach south of Greenough. He followed a quad bike track onto a steeply sloping very soft loose sand beach down near the water. We used two Maxtrax under the front wheels and did about 20 shifts to get him back to the top of the beach. Each time the front and rear wheels went over the Maxtrax and then he stopped dead. We got him out though. Just took a long time and a lot of digging out the buried Maxtrax.

[NavyDiver]

I think anyone can get bogged at times on the amazing beaches in WA mate. I have many times saddly years ago now.

I would suggest you look at rock sliders. On my D3, when needed, I use a high lift jack on the sliders. It lifts both left or right side wheels and would beat a high lift jack on a bull bar in my experience. The OEM jack is not my cup of tea, I broke mine jack while knee deep bogged in mud 20km from help in the middle of a dry mud flat with nothing to winch off:eek: Got out after a lot of round trips to a stand of trees 2km away with stuff to shove under my tires :(

The skinny rubber is the only reason I do not have a D4! If you can get down to 18inch the ballooning would be much better on yours which makes a huge difference in sand with vehicles which weight close to 3 tonnes even with out a trailer on.

I would love to get bogged at white hill again- as long as I have my fishing rods of course:D

[LandyAndy]

Finally put my D4 to the test on some very sandy tracks towing a camper trailer and got seriously bogged. (don't ask how.. embarrassing and irrelevant!). It was on a sunken sandy beachside track and the first time in three decades I have needed the assistance of another vehicle to get out. Normally on industrial vehicles I would have used the high lift jack to crank up each wheel but no hard points on this baby so didn't carry one. On board I had recovery mats, shovel and an exhaust jack. No good.. the bag just raised the chassis higher while the unbelievable suspension travel prevented the wheels coming off the dirt to get the mats under them. digging under the wheels just caused them to disappear into the hole.
I reckon you have to dig a hole metres deep to get the wheels off the ground!
When a bull bar becomes available for the MY14/15 models I will certainly be installing a winch and buying a sand plate.
As for the OEM jack.. what a piece of ****.. I wouldn't even try changing a wheel on the bitumen with that.. another item to be replaced.

Gordon mentions in his course that maxtracks work exceptionally well with the Terrain Response electronics.
Now you have it off your chest,can you disclose the embarrasing incident??? It is relevent to us newby D3/D4 owners,always good to know of pitfalls in advance.
Any pics????
Thanks
Andrew

[Blknight.aus]

4 psi if you're gentle

[scarry]

Gordon mentions in his course that maxtracks work exceptionally well with the Terrain Response electronics.
Now you have it off your chest,can you disclose the embarrasing incident??? It is relevent to us newby D3/D4 owners,always good to know of pitfalls in advance.
Any pics????
Thanks
Andrew

i got my D4 very badly bogged late one day on the track entrance on the eastern side of Moreton island.Sand was very dry and soft.

The fishing was great,the drive back not so good.

Brain fade was the issue:(

Not enough momentum,DSC left on:(

I should have known,have done heaps of sand driving in the D2,never had any worries.

Once the vehicle was bogged,i lowered the tyres from 18 to 12 psi,rock crawl,extended height.
Then an hour on the long handled shovel,and out it came.

If we didn't have the shovel,we probably would have been there for the night

Damm good exercise,we were both completely stuffed,no one came along to help.It was just on dark when we got out.

[coolum]

Can you tell on circumstances plz?

[LandyAndy]

Was warned about the DSC at Gordons course.And the fact that you need to make sure its disabled EVERY time you move on sand as it will re-set.
Andrew

[gghaggis]

On 18" 60 profile tyres I've been down to 9psi for serious extraction. You should rarely have to jack the car to get out of a sand bog (read my booklet), but if you do the car should be AT LEAST at off-road height, if not extended first. A 500mm air jack should manage from there.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Boggs]

I was using Max Tracks, angle was sharp and wheels just melted the knobs on the tracks!

[Boggs]

Gordon mentions in his course that maxtracks work exceptionally well with the Terrain Response electronics.
Now you have it off your chest,can you disclose the embarrasing incident??? It is relevent to us newby D3/D4 owners,always good to know of pitfalls in advance.
Any pics????
Thanks
Andrew
I became bogged when I tried to reverse into a potential turn-around point. I had forgotten to disable the trailer override brakes... so car was trying to push against a brick wall! Dumb and dumber!
Thanks for the input all. Comments about the DSC noted, I had read something about this before but didn't retain it in my memory bank. I will fit rock sliders that can facilitate the use of a high lift jack as one post suggested, and probably a winch.
While I was disappointed in this experience, I can say that after owning the Disco for 5 months I could NEVER go back to a lesser vehicle and am happy to spend what is needed to make it a viable replacement for the old Troopy.

[BobD]

285 tyres on 18 inch rims help a bit but the standard tyres are not much worse as long as you lower pressures to less than 18. Since I got the 285 tyres I haven't really looked like getting bogged after lots of WA sand driving, except when I stupidly don't let down the tyres because I'm lazy.


The main limitation I have compared with a lifted cruiser is the ramp over angle. My son's D1 will do it, my son in law's Patrol and 80 series will do it but the D4 will hang up on the middle, even in Llams raised height. Other than that the car is easily as capable as a Patrol or Cruiser in sand and wombat holes. Rocks are also good but a bit too easy to damage stuff that you wouldn't worry about in a Troopy or GQ Patrol!


Boggs, get Gordon's booklet if you haven't already got it and try to do a GOE course. You don't need mods to make it capable you probably just need to learn how to drive it, since a lot of stuff is so different from the old ways we are used to. Don't forget Rock Crawl when you get stuck. If there is any traction, even a single tree root or a bit of firmer sand, it will find it and get the car moving. It is amazing how it will walk out of stuff in Rock Crawl that you thought was terminal when in Sand Mode.


See you on the tracks sometime demonstrating how capable the D4 is to all the traditional 4WD owners out there!

[Tombie]

I was using Max Tracks, angle was sharp and wheels just melted the knobs on the tracks!

Sounds like too much throttle - Crawl onto Maxtrax.

[scarry]

Was warned about the DSC at Gordons course.And the fact that you need to make sure its disabled EVERY time you move on sand as it will re-set.
Andrew

That is what always catches me out,if the engine is turned off and then on again DSC will come back on,also if you change TR modes,you will find DSC turns on in grass,gravel and snow mode,even though it may have been turned off in another mode.The DSC off light will go out.

DSC will also sometimes come on in some modes,even if it is turned off,although i have never seen this happen in sand mode.
The orange DSC light will flash on when it is on,even though the DSC off orange light is on at the same time.

Hope the above is not to confusing….

And as Tombie has said,always crawl onto maxtrax,as it says in their instructions(that no one ever reads)

[BobD]

In low range for proper control and low wheel speed!


By the way Boggs, were you in low range? The D4 needs to be in low range to activate all of its smart off road stuff properly, especially the cross linking of the suspension and other terrain settings.

[Boggs]

In low range for proper control and low wheel speed!


By the way Boggs, were you in low range? The D4 needs to be in low range to activate all of its smart off road stuff properly, especially the cross linking of the suspension and other terrain settings.

Initially I had her in "cactus" mode.. aka sand... then went to low range when bogged. yes, it's all a bit confusing... definitely going to by Gordon's booklet and get to one of his courses.. just need to find a date that doesn't conflict with my FIFO roster..

[LandyAndy]

Initially I had her in "cactus" mode.. aka sand... then went to low range when bogged. yes, it's all a bit confusing... definitely going to by Gordon's booklet and get to one of his courses.. just need to find a date that doesn't conflict with my FIFO roster..

I would order Gordons book asap,its basicaly Gordons speil for the course.I think things would have sunk in beter for me if I read the book before the course.It fits nicely in the owners handbook for futher reference.The course is great.I have known Gordon for quite some time,you will enjoy listening to him.

I dont think Im ready to follow him thru Harvey in winter yet,he is a mad man:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Andrew

[gghaggis]

I dont think Im ready to follow him thru Harvey in winter yet,he is a mad man:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Andrew

?? :angel: :angel:

Not coming to the advanced weekend training then Andy?

[Boggs]

I would order Gordons book asap,its basicaly Gordons speil for the course.I think things would have sunk in beter for me if I read the book before the course.It fits nicely in the owners handbook for futher reference.The course is great.I have known Gordon for quite some time,you will enjoy listening to him.

I dont think Im ready to follow him thru Harvey in winter yet,he is a mad man:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Andrew
Just ordered the book. Trouble is I don't get home for 3 weeks so the War Office will read it and then she'll tell me everything I have done wrong!

[scarry]

Just ordered the book. Trouble is I don't get home for 3 weeks so the War Office will read it and then she'll tell me everything I have done wrong!

HA HA i get that all day,anyway.

She got in the drivers seat and had a go up a wet slippery slope a few weeks ago,got out and said,i am sure the old one (D2a) would have got up this.:confused:

No way any vehicle had a chance,it was way to steep and slippery.

[LandyAndy]

?? :angel: :angel:

Not coming to the advanced weekend training then Andy?

Mate I find it hard enough driving thru the city wondering who is going to run into me next!!!!!!!!
Andrew

[Celtoid]

Initially I had her in "cactus" mode.. aka sand... then went to low range when bogged. yes, it's all a bit confusing... definitely going to by Gordon's booklet and get to one of his courses.. just need to find a date that doesn't conflict with my FIFO roster..


I wouldn't sweat it mate, once you've had the car for a while ... if you use it off road often enough ....thinking about what you are about to do, understanding the car and the settings just becomes second nature. Realising things like the suspension and TC work better in low-range for example.


Not that I'm any expert by any stretch but once you get a better feel for it and a better understanding, your confidence grows. What once scared and challenged you before doesn't anymore as you know the car will take it on. I imagine this would be the case if you continually tried harder and harder stuff......which I haven't. But I've easily driven past or assisted plenty of other bogged cars.


Of course, at some point the car can only do so much and the conditions and the laws of physics will win in the end. In other words .... you can still get bogged and stuck ... LOL!!!


On the MaxTrax front. I was surprised how easy it is to burn the nubs off. The first time I used them ... low range ... can't remember if I was in Sand or Rock-Crawl but even with what I thought was very little throttle, I slightly scorched a couple. I now know you have to be really light on the gas. The car has a lot of low down grunt and the MaxTrax are just no competition if the wheels spin. However, I've used them several times since then with no issue. I've seen a few others destroy theirs however.

[ade]

Maxtrac are ****e. Get the glass fibre waffle boards.much better and you can bridge with then to

[Redback]

Maxtrac are ****e. Get the glass fibre waffle boards.much better and you can bridge with then to

I have those glass fibre bridging ladders/recovery tracks, these work really well and I also used them as a flat surface to jack up the daughters Amarok to change the front wheel after the wheel nuts came loose, we were on a very slippery muddy track on a bit of a slope, these things are bloody strong as well as very good recovery tracks.

Baz.

[eddomak]

I have those glass fibre bridging ladders/recovery tracks, these work really well and I also used them as a flat surface to jack up the daughters Amarok to change the front wheel after the wheel nuts came loose, we were on a very slippery muddy track on a bit of a slope, these things are bloody strong as well as very good recovery tracks.

Baz.

Hi, I did a quick google, but am wondering if I am looking at the right things (glass fibre 4wd mat) - can anybody post a link or pictures to some?

[BobD]

I've found Maxtrax perfect for getting other people out of bogs. Very rarely used them for myself, though, although the once or twice that I have used them they have been great.

[ytt105]

Try this.

Love the video!

MUPUTRAX - Multi-purpose Recovery Tracks, Sand Ladders, Camping and 4x4 Gear (http://www.muputrax.com.au/)

Regards

[Redback]

I got these, Tuff Traxx, similar to the Muputrax, but half the price, weigh 7.5kg each, brilliant bit of gear, come with a free bag.
Tuff Traxx 4Wd Bridging And Recovery Tracks. Set Of 2. Jpmbl - Ventilation Vents (http://specials.ventilation-vents.com.au/tuff-traxx-4wd-bridging-and-recovery-tracks-set-of-2-jpmbl/)

Baz.

[Reddahaydn]

Many years ago ('80's) in a 2 door rangie On Standard tyres - Fraser Is - in the Far nth of the island I had to go through the back of the Dunes to get through a beach due to tide.


I was on about 15lbs all round but it wasn't getting through in 3rd Low range ..


I had a pump handy to reinflate so I dropped them to 8 lbs and just 'drove through' like no probs.. once back on the Hard beaches I pumped back up to norm.


Now the question - in a D3 with 18" 'What would be the absolute minimum pressure that be recommended to make sure the wheels stay on the beads and get you out of the soft stuff..


Yes --- bearing in mind its just to get you through the problem and then re-inflate.. I would not go off into the Tree roots afterwards as we know the sidewalls will only last seconds.


Would an 18" handle 8 lbs? for a short low speed run?


I would have no issues putting it down to 8psi just to get you out of that situation.


this is probably the obvious so my apologies if you did try this...


my tactic would have been unhook the trailer and let the tyres down to 7-8psi. That would generally let you drive out especially as the chassis/diffs can all be lifted by the air suspension.


I would pump them straight back up to 14psi or so afterwards tho.

[Redback]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, if you get bogged in sand mode, go to rock crawl mode and ease yourself out, I've done this in river sand, a lot easier to get bogged in river sand, using rock crawl got me out.

Baz.