Tibus Portal Hubs

[TK_Co]

Portal hubs from Germany.

Hello all, today I went to the Tibus workshop in Germany. A long way from Australia !!

For those of you that don't know the Tibus story, they are a father and son team from Germany. Wolfgang Tibus and Daniel Tibus. They have been modifying cars and manufacturing parts for over 30 years, been all over the world, had a shop in America and spend a lot of time rally racing with their 600hp, 180kph Mercedes Unimog.

The portals are designed and engineered by Tibus and manufactured locally from the highest grade materials. There have been three models of portal hubs made so far. 1st the 5" portal hub prototype, 2nd was the 4" portal hub and now the 4" HEAVY DUTY portal hub which was developed for the fully armoured G-Wagen with heavy duty wheel bearing and larger diameter stub axle.

The 4" HEAVY DUTY portal hub has many improvements from the original 4" hub. The housing is made from aircraft grade 7075T6 aluminium. The gears are made from 4340SAE steel and case hardened to 55 Rockwell. The stub axle had been increased from 1.4"diameter 33 spline to 1.55" diameter 37 spline and increased in length. The axle splines are longer as well and have been increased from 27 spline to 30 spline and custom CV joints made. The wheel bearings have been increased significantly,
Tibus now use the taper roller wheel bearing from the Mercedes Atego 12 ton truck with a load rating of 5.3 ton on the front axle.

All hubs come CTI (Central Tyre Inflation) ready, just remove the plugs and fit the CTI connections. Tibus are also currently working on there own CTI system.

Tibus also offer a range of fully waterproof competition winches. There full range of products can be seen on there website Welcome (http://www.killeraxles.com/html/welcome.html)

Here are some pics from my trip. I was told for 4 hubs will be ?10,000 and 6 (for a 6x6) will be ?15,000. Plus tyres and rims. They recommend the Hutchinson WA0491double bead lock rims and 315/75/R16 tyres

[TK_Co]

91612
Cad drawing

[TK_Co]

91613
Old hubs V's New hubs

[TK_Co]

91614
New stub axle V's old

[TK_Co]

91615
Internals

[TK_Co]

91616

[TK_Co]

91617
Idler gears have needle roller bearings

[TK_Co]

91618
Front hub support

[TK_Co]

91619
Hutchinson rims

[TK_Co]

91620
Front view of Merc with portals

[TK_Co]

91621

[TK_Co]

91622
White rhino with portals

[TK_Co]

91623

[TK_Co]

91624

[Bearman]

They certainly look bulletproof but are you ever really going to need them. You could buy a lot of other stuff with that sort of money.

[debruiser]

I think if your going to lift your car, this is the way to do it! Moved EVERYTHING up :D

[BadCo.]

I'll take a set :D I have been drooling over them since they came up in a thread a while back.

Was that 10k AUD?

[TK_Co]

I'll take a set :D I have been drooling over them since they came up in a thread a while back.

Was that 10k AUD?

Sorry, the ? thing didn't work. It's 10,000 euro so about $14,500 NZD

[BadCo.]

Sorry, the ? thing didn't work. It's 10,000 euro so about $14,500 NZD

With rims and tires that's not all bad. Does that include everything to whack them on? Extended brake lines etc? And shipping?

[TK_Co]

They certainly look bulletproof but are you ever really going to need them. You could buy a lot of other stuff with that sort of money.

Your so wise and Nobel Brian. And 100% correct. I could buy a lot off other stuff like another house or another 6x6 and I can hear my dad saying the same as you. So I'm not getting them today. But I can dream of tomorrow :) and yes, of cause I'm going to need them to drive over annoying things like a Prius's or large trees that get in the way :)

[TK_Co]

With rims and tires that's not all bad. Does that include everything to whack them on? Extended brake lines etc? And shipping?

Sorry mate, that's just the hubs. Rims and tyres are extra. They use the factory callipers and don't think they need any extension lines.

Well I'm off to bed as I'm in German time.

[Bearman]

Your so wise and Nobel Brian. And 100% correct. I could buy a lot off other stuff like another house or another 6x6 and I can hear my dad saying the same as you. So I'm not getting them today. But I can dream of tomorrow :) and yes, of cause I'm going to need them to drive over annoying things like a Prius's or large trees that get in the way :)

Nothing wrong with dreaming, I do a bit of it myself!

[BadCo.]

Can you even fit 35" tires on the two rear axles? :P

[TK_Co]

I've measured it and should be ok. But I can't fit 37's :(

[Steve223]

Didn't a member from AULRO buy the portals and ripped them out again not to long ago after spending a year of trying to get them to work on his Defender and every time he went out with them something broke and truck was towed out???? Toying with the portal idea for quite a while but bit expensive to find out they break.

[BadCo.]

And wasn't there another member with them in his 130 off road race support truck that had good experience with them...

Edit: this one
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1058.jpg

He has a thread on here somewhere.

Edit 2: it was Oilworker (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/oilworker.html) and it might have been posted in another thread

Edit 3: found
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/36152-maxi-drive-portal-axle-drop-boxes-4.html#post1191917
Spot the irony.

[Ranga]

Be nice if they could mass produce them and bring the price down!

[TK_Co]

Didn't a member from AULRO buy the portals and ripped them out again not to long ago after spending a year of trying to get them to work on his Defender and every time he went out with them something broke and truck was towed out???? Toying with the portal idea for quite a while but bit expensive to find out they break.

Yes, chook/lain did have a bad experience. And I've spoken to several that have had very good experiences. The new HD portal looks bulletproof !!

[PhilipA]

I spent a couple of interesting hours this morning reading the 73 pages of Chooks post.

A few impressions were the great knowledge of the forum members and the tremendous added stresses on the rest of the vehicle caused by the portals when used in slow work where large amounts of torque are transmitted through the suspension and axles.

I would venture to suggest that yes many in Europe would have no problems as there are not many Mt Walkers there open to traverse.

In high speed work like rally service vehicles, there is nowhere near the torque applied to the axles and suspension, as for one thing they are probably in high ratio, and going 60Kmh upwards. Again I have spoken to tourists in the NW who have told me that they have never seen corrugations like on say the Kulumburu road.

The other lesson that I hope I learned is that the portals are not "bolt on".


They cause such changes to the suspension geometry that a complete rethink and rebuild are required. I marveled at the amount of fabrication and mechanic time that Chook spent on his. It would have had to double the cost of the portals to about 30K or so.

It makes you think what a great engineer the bloke at Maxidrive was.

Regards Philip A

[350RRC]

..............It makes you think what a great engineer the bloke at Maxidrive was.

Regards Philip A........

Mal Story, legend.

cheers, DL

[Steve223]

Yes, chook/lain did have a bad experience. And I've spoken to several that have had very good experiences. The new HD portal looks bulletproof !!


could you let me know who had the good experience here in OZ actually using them off road? Portals are still on my to do list but after what I heard about the Tibus they are out of the picture. Would be great if I could get convinced otherwise

[Steve223]

Mal Story, legend.



cheers, DL


just wish someone took Mal's blueprint and manufacture the portals again. I believe he did not sell them to MR when selling the business

[TK_Co]

could you let me know who had the good experience here in OZ actually using them off road? Portals are still on my to do list but after what I heard about the Tibus they are out of the picture. Would be great if I could get convinced otherwise

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=36152

91664

[TK_Co]

And i don't know if I'm sounding bias because I'm trying to convince myself and the mrs aswell that this is a good idea, but there were a lot of positives that came out of choocks experience. He said that the Tibus warranty support was excellent until they had a falling out and they would send any parts needed strait away. The rear stub axle was breaking after the front axle snapped and shock loaded the rear. So the portals weren't the weakest link. I had a look at the pictures of the break and they weren't fatigue breaks, they were sudden impact breaks.
Anyway, this wasn't a post to rehash chooks experience or say what could or couldn't have been the problem, this was a post to say that Tibus have made a bigger, stronger, better portal and that portals are AWESOME!! :)

[BadCo.]

And i don't know if I'm sounding bias because I'm trying to convince myself and the mrs aswell that this is a good idea, but there were a lot of positives that came out of choocks experience. He said that the Tibus warranty support was excellent until they had a falling out and they would send any parts needed strait away. The rear stub axle was breaking after the front axle snapped and shock loaded the rear. So the portals weren't the weakest link. I had a look at the pictures of the break and they weren't fatigue breaks, they were sudden impact breaks.
Anyway, this wasn't a post to rehash chooks experience or say what could or couldn't have been the problem, this was a post to say that Tibus have made a bigger, stronger, better portal and that portals are AWESOME!! :)

You should do it.

Definitely do it. You can't take your money to the grave!

[Steve223]

what is the biggest tyre size I can run on them? 37"?

[TK_Co]

You should do it.

Definitely do it. You can't take your money to the grave!

lol, I just told the mrs that and I got a deathly stare !!!

[TK_Co]

what is the biggest tyre size I can run on them? 37"?

I do know they had them on a jeep there with 37's. I wouldn't imagine you would want to go any bigger.

I can't fit 37's on mine as the rear tandems would rub on my 6x6

[Steve223]

I do know they had them on a jeep there with 37's. I wouldn't imagine you would want to go any bigger.

I can't fit 37's on mine as the rear tandems would rub on my 6x6


I will give them a call on Monday, do you know whether they have the portals for a D2?

[brendanm]

It is interesting to see people considering Tibus Portals. I was out with Iain when many of the breaks occurred. I can tell you Iain could not have been kinder to his vehicle and wasn't going stupid when let down by the stub axle.
Often I was in front of Iain and eased the car through the terrain. heard the bang reversed back and re-drove the same track with an extra two and a half tonne on the back. I think you were closer to the money when heaping praise on Mal's genius. Tibus latest efforts would need to be a massive improvement. I think the problem is in the axle, in that it is part of the lower gear. When the axle shears it not only leaves you stranded though also with three wheels. The worst occasion was a 24 hour recovery and that was only back to the closest sealed road.
If you are set on portals, maybe look to develop some with the best of all knowledge already established. It has been done before. Try and utilise as many standard Landrover components as possible. And work in with industry experts where required.

[BadCo.]

I will give them a call on Monday, do you know whether they have the portals for a D2?

What diff's does a d2 have? The same as the front of the defender?

I thought I saw oilworkers puma had a rear Salisbury fitted, so maybe they won't work on a D2...

[TK_Co]

I will give them a call on Monday, do you know whether they have the portals for a D2?

They have portals for Land Rover, Toyota, jeep, ect. Have a look and shoot them an email. International phone calls are expensive !!

[33chinacars]

Here's an alternative . Dana 44 /60 . Not cheap US$ 12,500 front & US$ 11,000 rear.

ProRock Portal Axle (http://www.dynatrac.com/axle-assemblies/prorock-44-portal-axle.html)

[Pateyw]

Do you know why Wolfgang stopped making the 5" prototype portal that worked

[TK_Co]

Do you know why Wolfgang stopped making the 5" prototype portal that worked

They gear ratio was 1.6 and was too slow. Especially for me that already has 4.7 ratio diffs. Top speed would be ridiculously slow. Any other reasons I'm not sure about.

[TK_Co]

Here's an alternative . Dana 44 /60 . Not cheap US$ 12,500 front & US$ 11,000 rear.

ProRock Portal Axle (http://www.dynatrac.com/axle-assemblies/prorock-44-portal-axle.html)

Thanks,
But I've looked at those befor. There more for rock climbing with the big gear reduction and also they won't fit on a 6x6 as there wide track

[Don 130]

This mob (http://motorsports.axletech.com/faq.asp) mentioned in an earlier post, claim to be working on portals for Rover axles.
Don.

[33chinacars]

Both this ProRock Portal Axle & this Welcome - AxleTech International Motorsports (http://motorsports.axletech.com/portal.asp) are manufactured by AxleTech International Motorsports (AIM) . Can make in any width you want . And can come as a bolt on conversion for various axles.

[Pateyw]

The Ashcroft gear set 1.003 for your transfer case brings the ratio back to Normal . But suppose you can't get the 1.6 portals anyway .
Have the new generation portals been tested yet .

[TK_Co]

Do you know why Wolfgang stopped making the 5" prototype portal that worked

From Wolfgang Tibus
We stopped to make the 1,6-1 portals because they are good for offroad competition but not for street and travel.
We used on the 1,6-1 portals also different brakes and it does not make sense to change to many parts. Now we use the stock Rover brakes which makes it easy to get spare parts.
We have to make the cars street legal and this is also a reason why we can not change the overall gear ratio more than 7%.

[Pateyw]

I guess he has his reasons from a business point of view .
It's just a shame as they do the job .
The brakes were a problem though I had to fit a hydroboost to get adequate braking but that really was no issue as the braking is incredible now.

[Pateyw]

One other thing to mention is I personally would not be fitting portals for travel or street use ,I just don't see the need for clearance on the street .

[MLD]

One other thing to mention is I personally would not be fitting portals for travel or street use ,I just don't see the need for clearance on the street .

Not even in Woolies carpark that is filled with Abath's and Mini's that you can park on?

Wombat clearance?

Small crawling children clearance?

You can build a storage box in the middle of your garage and park over it.

So many positives and possibilities!

MLD

[Toxic_Avenger]

Not even in Woolies carpark that is filled with Abath's and Mini's that you can park on?

Wombat clearance?

Small crawling children clearance?

You can build a storage box in the middle of your garage and park over it.

So many positives and possibilities!

MLD

Positives such as eating baked beans for every meal... for the rest of the year!!!
:p

[TK_Co]

Not even in Woolies carpark that is filled with Abath's and Mini's that you can park on?


So many positives and possibilities!

MLD

I think those annoying jumbuck protons would be good to :)

As for street driving / carparks, neither the 6x6 or portals are purchased with the purpose of driving to the shops to do the groceries.

The purpose of the 6x6 is to get out bush and explore!! And the portals are to help with that without changing the driving characteristics.

And as for the hydro booster I will be thinking of that too, the old 6x6 breaks aren't super sharp.

[Steve223]

After having another good chat with Ian who had the Tibus portals and removed them again I think I will pass on them. Don't them to be suited what we do with the trucks here and last face it for Touring I like to keep it simple so would not want to have portals and so far would have never needed them touring. For the play truck it would makes sense but don't think they are mode for it.

[BadCo.]

After having another good chat with Ian who had the Tibus portals and removed them again I think I will pass on them. Don't them to be suited what we do with the trucks here and last face it for Touring I like to keep it simple so would not want to have portals and so far would have never needed them touring. For the play truck it would makes sense but don't think they are mode for it.

Oh so Ian has been using the new heavy duty portals?

[Pateyw]

Ok so it was the heavy duty portals that failed ,not the earlier models

[TK_Co]

Ok so it was the heavy duty portals that failed ,not the earlier models

I've spoken with lain and I'm pretty sure it was not the heavy duty portals he had. He had the first model of 4" that came out. When the 4"HD portals came out there relationship broke down.

[Pateyw]

So the new generation heavy duty portals may perform all going well .
Have they been tried and tested yet .

[Steve223]

Oh so Ian has been using the new heavy duty portals?


No he hasn't but from the information I received from Ian and the Landrover Mechanics who worked on it just stronger stub axel will not do the job according to them the design is flawed.

It also seems like that there is a lot of other work needed when receiving the portals (which is very little documents or mentioned) so it's not a straight bolt in.

Again if you want to spent the money speak with KLR or Ian or read the forum posts.

Don't get me wrong I love for the portals to work and to put a pair in my D2 but it's a expensive exercise and I would do this only if I see the portals working in Australian condition (not touring but rock crawling)

Would be great if someone here would give it another go and post the results...

[PhilipA]

Don't get me wrong I love for the portals to work and to put a pair in my D2

I meant to say earlier that with a D2 you will have a whole different set of issues.

You do realize that a D2 axle is completely different to Defenders and D1s, so you would potentially need another set of axles, and then either weld the D2 suspension points on, or cut off all the D2 body suspension mount points and replace with Defender/RRC type points.

All this will cost you not just one arm and leg but 2 arms and 2 legs and I am sure lead to many happy hours with a certification engineer.
Regards Philip A

[goingbush]

Someone that has just been to a 4x4 show in Germany posted this picture on the Iveco Daily 4x4 Facebook group, he posted it to to show the brakes. Not sure what type of axle , G-Wagen ??, thought it might be of interest here.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/615.jpg

[mickygee]

thanks for that, one of the best pics of a portal so far!! yes looks like a G-Wagen portal by the looks of that drilled cross brace

[Steve223]

I've measured it and should be ok. But I can't fit 37's :(

has been a while just wondering did you end up buying the Tibus Portals? What is your experience with the HD ones?