Ropes illegal to tie a load

[LandyAndy]

I here on the wireless today that as of Anzac day it is illegal to secure a load on any vehicle with rope.Rated ratchet straps or chains and dogs must be used.Items like bags of cement or animal feed also need to be restrained in the cargo bay!!!!
Apparently its not just heavy vehicles,it also covers your ute or garden trailer.Futhermore if you do buy something from say a hardware store and they allow you to tie the load on with rope they also can be held to blame if an incedent arises.
From what I heard it is not a WA thing,its national.
MADNESS:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew

[vnx205]

I don't accept the suggestion in the sites I looked at to confirm what you had heard, that straps are necessarily safer than slings.

Are those of us who know how to tie knots and who have been safely securing motorbikes, kayaks, boats, timber, furniture, white goods and other items for half a century now going to be forced to buy webbing straps because some people don't know how to correctly use ropes?

EDIT.
The report on the ABC site mentions "certified rope", so it seem the right rope will still be OK.

New road compliance and enforcement regulations will require drivers to use approved webbing, tie-downs or certified rope (rope which has been endorsed by Australian standards).
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-18/new-road-rules-for-wa-from-april/6329922

[Slunnie]

That's interesting. When I got my HR license I had to demonstrate that I could secure a load using chain and dogs and also with tensioned ropes.

[Roverlord off road spares]

The ban on ropes is probably to stop people trying to hang themselves due to the frustration of nanny laws.

[V8Ian]

I here on the wireless today that as of Anzac day it is illegal to secure a load on any vehicle with rope.Rated ratchet straps or chains and dogs must be used.Items like bags of cement or animal feed also need to be restrained in the cargo bay!!!!
Apparently its not just heavy vehicles,it also covers your ute or garden trailer.Futhermore if you do buy something from say a hardware store and they allow you to tie the load on with rope they also can be held to blame if an incedent arises.
From what I heard it is not a WA thing,its national.
MADNESS:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
AndrewBeen like that on the right coast for ages Andy.

[V8Ian]

EDIT.
The report on the ABC site mentions "certified rope", so it seem the right rope will still be OK.

New road compliance and enforcement regulations will require drivers to use approved webbing, tie-downs or certified rope (rope which has been endorsed by Australian standards).
WA road transport changes to come into place in April - ABC Rural (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-18/new-road-rules-for-wa-from-april/6329922)
For all practical purposes, rope is banned. Have you ever seen a rope with SWL tags?

[EastFreo]

That is ridiculous. Learning a simple half hitch and a truckie's hitch isn't hard and I reckon easier than using some of the strap contraptions around.

[joel0407]

So has new legislation been passed? Does it actually specify a load restraint must be rated?

If you tie anything on, it is your responsablilty. If something goes wrong and the rope gets tested and it's discovered the rope was insufficent for the load then you are liable.

If I was given a ticket for insecuring a load with an unrated rope, I'd be asking the question how they have determined the rope I am using in insufficent. And I'll take that to court thanks.

I use Telstra rope for near everthing since being a Telstra Subie for over 9 years. I hear all sorts of rubbish how I cant use it to secure a load. Well it is actually rated rope. The only problem would be if I tied somthing down that exceeded it's rating.

Happy Days

[Red90]

So basically anyone tying anything down will need to get a load calculation performed by an engineer and signed off and then tested and rated securing devices used attached to rated and tested load points....

Insane.

[joel0407]

Well I had a little, not a lot but a little bit of a read of some of the links provided by the ABC page.

I followed through a little and one of the things I browsed was the "Load Restraint Guide". It says the restraint needs to secure the load in the following conditions (or something like that).

0.8 g deceleration in a forward direction,
0.5 g deceleration in a rearward direction,
0.5 g acceleration in a lateral direction, and to
0.2 g acceleration relative to the load in a vertical direction.

So 0.8g is 80% of the weight of the item. If something weighs 100kg, the securing rope needs to secure it to 80kg. Telstra rope has a SWL of 200kg. So 2 lengths of Telstra rope holding an item to a head board has a SWL of 400kg (straight line). The requirement is for only 0.5g rearward. So 1 length of Telstra rope is enough to hold 800kg to a head board. Then you'd need to same laterally and it's going to be way over kill for the length you have over the top, holding it down.

I can tell you now if I was securing something 800kg, I would be using more than 3 lengths of Telstra rope.

So to put this into perspective. I could use 1 peice of Telstra rope from the front of a car trailer to a single tie point of a Suzuki Swift and back to the front of the trailer, do the same on the rear and that would be legal.

I don't think too many people need to get there knickers in a not over this. I suspect most of us use overkill when it comes to securing stuff.

Happy Days

[donh54]

To think, I used to cart bags of cement, fertiliser, horse and dog food, flour, sugar, etc, etc on a road train throughout Central and northern Qld, over mostly gravel (if you were lucky) or blacksoil tracks, through creekbeds and up and down jumpups, with nothing but a few ropes (not even nylon) and a tarp holding them on!
Biggest problem as I see it, is the huge number of so-called truck drivers out there who got their licence at so-called testing facilities, jump into a 600 HP Kenworth and hit the highways with their shiny chrome and dazzling led lights. When the inevitable happens and it all turns to poo, the first thing that pops out of their mouth is "the load shifted, Officer!" Equally young and inexperienced copper puts that in his report, and later on some desk-polisher puts out a report on the vast number of heavy vehicle accidents involving "shifting loads". Recommendation - we need a Load Restraint Guide. End result - we have a guide, now we can enforce compliance! After hassling truckies for a few years, some bright young thing realized what a huge revenue raiser there could be in checking car trailers and utes at the tip on Saturday morning.

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[rangieman]

Mmmm does this mean ropes on Tarps have to be rated:p
I like many others prefer ropes over rachet tie downs . Mainly the type for cars or trailers are just crap you can tie a rope tighter than most of those crap rachets.
I have been driving heavy trucks for a lot longer than most of these so called know it all politicians and have never ever lost a load using ropes

[shanegtr]

Well I had a little, not a lot but a little bit of a read of some of the links provided by the ABC page.

I followed through a little and one of the things I browsed was the "Load Restraint Guide". It says the restraint needs to secure the load in the following conditions (or something like that).

0.8 g deceleration in a forward direction,
0.5 g deceleration in a rearward direction,
0.5 g acceleration in a lateral direction, and to
0.2 g acceleration relative to the load in a vertical direction.

So 0.8g is 80% of the weight of the item. If something weighs 100kg, the securing rope needs to secure it to 80kg. Telstra rope has a SWL of 200kg. So 2 lengths of Telstra rope holding an item to a head board has a SWL of 400kg (straight line). The requirement is for only 0.5g rearward. So 1 length of Telstra rope is enough to hold 800kg to a head board. Then you'd need to same laterally and it's going to be way over kill for the length you have over the top, holding it down.

I can tell you now if I was securing something 800kg, I would be using more than 3 lengths of Telstra rope.

So to put this into perspective. I could use 1 peice of Telstra rope from the front of a car trailer to a single tie point of a Suzuki Swift and back to the front of the trailer, do the same on the rear and that would be legal.

I don't think too many people need to get there knickers in a not over this. I suspect most of us use overkill when it comes to securing stuff.

Happy Days
Dont forget a knot in a rope will lower its SWL a bit - how much depends on the knot

[numpty]

Bollocks :o

I've rarely had a rope come undone on a load, but many times rat **** straps have broken or released themselves.

As others have said tying the correct knot is not difficult. The old firies adage comes to mind "if you can't tie knots, tie lots"

[Redback]

As far as I know, any form of restraint when carrying a load, has always needed to be rated and rated to the load you're carrying.

I would imagine they are just reminding people of this fact, mainly to try and stop joe blow from tying down his 6 lengths of 4 x 2 planks with 6mm nylon rope and bungie straps.

Baz.

[p38arover]

That is ridiculous. Learning a simple half hitch and a truckie's hitch isn't hard and I reckon easier than using some of the strap contraptions around.

Wanna bet, James?

I've never been able to tie knots, even the most simple. They always come undone.
When I was in the VRA on Norfolk Island (which mainly trained for cliff rescue) they'd never let me near a rope!

Edit: if I want a knot to stay tight, I glue it. Seriously.

[Ancient Mariner]

How do rope cargo nets comply or do you have to strap down every thing under ?
Have also been told overcentre chain dogs are not legal need to be ratchet type A twitch of wire thru a link and around the handle never had a problem:confused:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I use Telstra rope for near everthing since being a Telstra Subie for over 9 years. I hear all sorts of rubbish how I cant use it to secure a load. Well it is actually rated rope. The only problem would be if I tied somthing down that exceeded it's rating.

Happy Days

Yes it is rated,,
and its only legally to be used once!
(thats why OZ is full of it)

I would think the manufacturer would laugh you out of court trying that on with used stuff.... ;)

[DiscoMick]

Yep I was told you have to use a cargo net on a trailer. Also the holes in the net have to be too small to fit a fist through or we will be fined. So I bought a net with small holes plus I use ratchet straps.

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[Ancient Mariner]

Yep I was told you have to use a cargo net on a trailer. Also the holes in the net have to be too small to fit a fist through or we will be fined. So I bought a net with small holes plus I use ratchet straps.

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Just making the point most nets are rope and also have yet to see one with mesh that small

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Before I left Toowoomba all the tradies were getting pinged for not covering their loads,,
and Repco etc were making a killing selling load nets,,
until some bright spark started using proper fishing/trawler netting and oky straps.
sent repco broke overnight;):D

[87County]

"Covering" any load in any trailer or open ute back is now insisted upon in NSW (assume elsewhere as well).

It would seem that the unrated supercheap cargo nets and the cheapest blue plastic tarp fulfil the requirement.

I cannot see how a plastic sheet (secured in any unspecified manner) helps secure a load (e.g. Firewood).

Rulemakers Rule !

[Roverlord off road spares]

My mate just informed me that some one got done for Unrestrained Gum boots in a back of a ute in QLD

[SSmith]

Have also been told overcentre chain dogs are not legal need to be ratchet type:

Incorrect.
Over centre are an OH&(B)S nightmare but not illegal.
Most transport companies will not accept them on their sites as a result of too many people injuring themselves. When told they are not allowed to use them on site most people mis interperet it as being illegal.

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[Tombie]

Site policy is all loads are ratcheted down ...

No-one here can put the load tension using any knot that a quality ratchet can produce..


As a side note, in SA fishing rods, bait buckets, etc in a boat (not in the closed cabin) are treated as an unsecured load.

[incisor]

My mate just informed me that some one got done for Unrestrained Gum boots in a back of a ute in QLD

happens all the time :p

seen one guy pulled over who had them stuffed between cab and tray and he was less than impressed going by the colour of his face as he was having the discussion with the guy from the purple striped ute..

[Homestar]

Incorrect.
Over centre are an OH&(B)S nightmare but not illegal.
Most transport companies will not accept them on their sites as a result of too many people injuring themselves. When told they are not allowed to use them on site most people mis interperet it as being illegal.

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Yep, our company will not accept the use of these due to idiots hitting themselves with them while undoing them, but not illegal. Ratchet chains to be used by all out transport subbies on all loads. Had a bit of push back by some subbies to start with, but most of them seem to like the ratchet chains better now.

[87County]

My mate just informed me that some one got done for Unrestrained Gum boots in a back of a ute in QLD


But, seriously, open ute backs or trailers are just not on with "authorities" at the moment - if there is anything therein it must be "covered" .

[SSmith]

No-one here can put the load tension using any knot that a quality ratchet can produce..

Exactly! quality ratchet, used correctly. Every ratchet failure i have heard of, one of those was lacking.

When i teach load restraint courses (coincidently yesterday) i make an exercise out of restraining a 1t pallet using ropes, first figuring out how many it takes to meet the .8g, .5g, &.2g standard in the load restraint guide (Its quite a few) then compare to how long it takes to do the same using a quality ratchet - most see my point :p

That said, ropes have their place. I still do, and always will, teach ropes.

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[DiscoMick]

Just making the point most nets are rope and also have yet to see one with mesh that small



I bought two recently. The first, from Supercheap, had holes big enough to put a fist through, so no good it seems. The second, from Autobarn, which cost $44, has very small holes and lots of clips and seems to work.
I wouldn't rely on it to hold any load on its own, so I also use ratchet straps.

[oldyella 76]

A couple of years ago Vic Roads put out a booklet on how various loads were to be restrained , probably 1/2 an inch thick which showed how machinery,wool bales, pipes and all manner of things were to be secured. Well they existed until someone there thought of what happens when the load that is secured as per their book shifts and injures someone? They then pulled the book and now you can't get it. A handy book though.
On the subject of straps, make sure they are not twisted one of my clients got done for 160 bucks for having a twisted strap.
Lindsay.

[SSmith]

A couple of years ago Vic Roads put out a booklet on how various loads were to be restrained , probably 1/2 an inch thick which showed how machinery,wool bales, pipes and all manner of things were to be secured. Well they existed until someone there thought of what happens when the load that is secured as per their book shifts and injures someone? They then pulled the book and now you can't get it. A handy book though.
On the subject of straps, make sure they are not twisted one of my clients got done for 160 bucks for having a twisted strap.
Lindsay.

Some of that info is now in the load restraint guide. Also individual guides are still available from vic roads.

P.S. the fine can be per twist! if they are having a bad day.

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[cjc_td5]

A couple of years ago Vic Roads put out a booklet on how various loads were to be restrained , probably 1/2 an inch thick which showed how machinery,wool bales, pipes and all manner of things were to be secured. Well they existed until someone there thought of what happens when the load that is secured as per their book shifts and injures someone? They then pulled the book and now you can't get it. A handy book though.
On the subject of straps, make sure they are not twisted one of my clients got done for 160 bucks for having a twisted strap.
Lindsay.

Was that twisted through the tensioning ratchet or a twist in the strap elsewhere? A twist through the ratchet is stupid and lazy, but a twist where the strap is tensioned but not restrained against the load will stop the strap from chattering in the wind.

Cheers,
Chris

[Davehoos]

Im a local government mechanic NSW. have to provide staff with equipment.


workcover issue rule. an inspection check /audit all load and lifting stuff has to be carried out by out side contractor.


biggest issue is uncovered loads. we had been buying shade cloth material for ant open utes. hyway patrol love to pull you over carry a spade or crow bar in the tray. most of our new toyota now have locking tool boxes. very little authorities question box trailers.

[Toxic_Avenger]

I understand the benefits of a quality ratchet strap.
I bought a 6m long 1.5 tonne rated ratchet strap from SX trailers for 10 bucks.

So for a hot tip, see a truck/trailer wholesaler for honest prices on quality gear.
A comparable ratchet strap at supercheap was upwards of 60 bucks for a pair, and looked to be an inferior quality product.

[SSmith]

a twist where the strap is tensioned but not restrained against the load will stop the strap from chattering in the wind.

This is true but in their eyes, it does not matter where the twist is.

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[copba]

I've heard about police sitting outside bottle shops nabbing tradies who'd bought a carton of beer and put it in the back of their ute.

I can't see how a carton of beer, or a bag of cement is going to 'jump' out of a ute,as long as the ute has sides of course, and they don't generally slide much anyway.

Mr Newton is holding it down.

And IF it did 'jump' out, how the hell is one of those cheap nets from supercrap going to stop it?

It's all gotten rediculous, common sense isn't very common.

[cjc_td5]

Site policy is all loads are ratcheted down ...

No-one here can put the load tension using any knot that a quality ratchet can produce..


As a side note, in SA fishing rods, bait buckets, etc in a boat (not in the closed cabin) are treated as an unsecured load.

Interesting about stuff in boats, seems logical that gear inside should be "secured". What about the boat itself though. A 1.5T boat is secured to a trailer with a piddly small winch rope and chain?

To my knowledge they are supplied from the manufacturers with no strap across the back but many owners place a strap over the rear of the hull as insurance for if the winch or bow chain fails etc. I have to place a twist in this strap otherwise it chatters insanely, am I honestly better off taking it off altogether?? :-(

The world makes no sense.

[SSmith]

I can't see how a carton of beer, or a bag of cement is going to 'jump' out of a ute,as long as the ute has sides of course, and they don't generally slide much anyway.

Mr Newton is holding it down.

And IF it did 'jump' out, how the hell is one of those cheap nets from supercrap going to stop it?



Under normal driving conditions, yes they tend to stay put.

Under heavy braking and or accident conditions they can get out. It is a very slim chance, and it takes bugger all resistance to stop it happening, 20% of its mass to be precise. So a 20kg bag of cement takes 4kg worth of force to stop it jumping over the sides. So put a fish scale on your cheap net and if it can hold at 4kg then it is sufficient to restrain that part of the force.

But hey
Its all common sense

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[lewy]

glad i don't drive trucks anymore.I have trouble getting the straps to work.I remember when the straps started to be used we were told that we had to put a twist in the strap as they would fray from vibrating in the wind.

[loneranger]

When we used to carry our kayaks on the roof of the car standard practice was to use a strap on each roof bar and one at the front and one at the rear. The instructions supplied by Rhino, Thule etc stated to put several twists into the strap to minimise vibration and chattering.

Now I carry them on the camper trailer and boat trailer I secure them across each contact point onto the carriers. I don't tie at each end anymore. I guess on the camper trailer I may have to consider this. They never move and I check them every time I stop. Plus we keep an eye on them whilst driving.

[rrturboD]

I have been advised by local certifier of lifting gear etc that if pinged on a twisted strap, not at anchor point or ratchet ... fight it (can usually do by letter) as there is nothing in the laws about twisted straps AND a twist stops the wind chattering.

[350RRC]

glad i don't drive trucks anymore.I have trouble getting the straps to work.I remember when the straps started to be used we were told that we had to put a twist in the strap as they would fray from vibrating in the wind.

I've always put a twist in them after having one fray through in 300 k's. Know now it is illegal haha.

Next will be annual inspection and certification of ratchet straps...... at 10 times the purchase price.

People who design these rules, without any common sense, are assuming that everyone is as useless as them.

that is all, DL

[350RRC]

I have been advised by local certifier of lifting gear etc that if pinged on a twisted strap, not at anchor point or ratchet ... fight it (can usually do by letter) as there is nothing in the laws about twisted straps AND a twist stops the wind chattering.

You just reminded me of the 'Moebius strip'......... a strip of paper with a half twist joined up with tape for demo purposes.

If you draw a line on one side along the middle and keep following it around the line will join up to where you started. i.e. both sides are the 'same side'.

Where is the twist? That could either amuse or annoy a Magistrate.

DL

[mekon76]

Bit of a nanny state law, I just wish people would learn to tie down properly whatever they're using, having successfully dodged a ladder falling from a ute at speed whilst on a motorbike with no space to go.

There was a bloke on a motorbike forum I'm on that was cleaned up by a dinner table flying off a car. He had a very long road to recovery.

[EastFreo]

Wanna bet, James?

I've never been able to tie knots, even the most simple. They always come undone.
When I was in the VRA on Norfolk Island (which mainly trained for cliff rescue) they'd never let me near a rope!

Edit: if I want a knot to stay tight, I glue it. Seriously.

I have to admit I was taught as a kid by a ex truckie who ended up working on our family farm for about 40 years. He was very particular about how to tie down equipment and drilled it into us. Taught me a lot of very useful tips actually.

[d2dave]

I have rated ratchet straps and lots of rope. In most cases I can tie down a load in a trailer with rope much faster than a ratchet strap.

And I can do it that tight that I can bend either the attaching rail or the trailer floor. There are horses for courses. Sometimes I use a ratchet strap, but mostly I use ropes.

Occasionally I also use just duct tape. I don't care what the law is, I will continue using ropes. Unless something goes wrong you won't get pinged for it.

As a side note. How many people would know that the original Telecom rope had a ribbon running through the yellow strand which said Telecom Australia along its length.

Below is a sample of some that I have.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/691.jpg

[Blknight.aus]

I have rated ratchet straps and lots of rope. In most cases I can tie down a load in a trailer with rope much faster than a ratchet strap.

And I can do it that tight that I can bend either the attaching rail or the trailer floor. There are horses for courses. Sometimes I use a ratchet strap, but mostly I use ropes.

Occasionally I also use just duct tape. I don't care what the law is, I will continue using ropes. Unless something goes wrong you won't get pinged for it.

As a side note. How many people would know that the original Telecom rope had a ribbon running through the yellow strand which said Telecom Australia along its length.


Below is a sample of some that I have.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/691.jpg

how many people know of the teltale, know the purpose of the teltale wrap and how many people know that telecom, paramata or telstra rope as its called is certified and has a registered specification and is therefor complaint or tiedown work under the new regs?

[joel0407]

Yes it is rated,,
and its only legally to be used once!
(thats why OZ is full of it)

I would think the manufacturer would laugh you out of court trying that on with used stuff.... ;)

I'd like to see evidence of this, mate. I very highly suspect it's just another myth.

Telstra only use it once as the cost of labor while rodding ducts when it breaks, far outways the cost of the rope. Telstra ducts can be pretty abrasive on the rope as well with a heap of dirt often washed in and it's worse when the ropes are pulled over concrete pit and man hole edges.

Most of my stuff is kept in pretty good condition and out of the sun, unless it's in use.

Happy Days

[Homestar]

I'd like to see evidence of this, mate. I very highly suspect it's just another myth.

Telstra only use it once as the cost of labor while rodding ducts when it breaks, far outways the cost of the rope. Telstra ducts can be pretty abrasive on the rope as well with a heap of dirt often washed in and it's worse when the ropes are pulled over concrete pit and man hole edges.

Most of my stuff is kept in pretty good condition and out of the sun, unless it's in use.

Happy Days

When using the stuff for it's designed purpose it needs to meet the requirements of specification for Telstra serial Item 675/00294 & 675/00083, which states (amongst other things) you can only use it for a single use. That's why you find the stuff lying around everywhere and why contractors buy it by the pallet load. As the certification for this rope is based around the Telstra rope contact, you could argue that using it again for tying a load to your trailer is ok, but the certification document for it sure won't say that. Not all yellow and blue poly ropes meet this certification in the first place and are just copies.

Oh, the rating on the certified stuff is around 600kg single line pull.

[Ratel10mm]

Dave, iirc the telltale dates back to (at least) the days of sailing ships in the Royal Navy. Each RN rope walk used a different colour telltale so that the rope could a) be traced to point of manufacture, and b) if (or when) stolen it was evidence that the rope belonged to the Crown, rather than the 'owner'.
And c) the telltale is in one twist, this marking that twist & making it much easier to follow the twists correctly when splicing.

[d2dave]

In the Telecom rope the ID tape was there for theft purposes. This was later dropped as the cost outweighed the benefit.
As for single use, I did ask a Telecom bloke once and he told me that they were supposed to use it more than once, they just didn't because of laziness.

My two best friends are EX Telecom. I will ask them when I next talk to them.

The reason there is so much of this around, I believe, is that it is copied and used everywhere. I reckon most of what is out there is not from Telstra but other sources.

I purchase a new whole roll a few years back from a swap meet.

[d2dave]

Futhermore if you do buy something from say a hardware store and they allow you to tie the load on with rope they also can be held to blame if an incedent arises.
From what I heard it is not a WA thing,its national.
MADNESS:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew

I am aware of chain of responsibility laws. They were around when I got my HC license back in 2005.
However when it comes to the hardware store, I can really see when purchasing a couple of lengths of timber at Bunnings, an employee walking out to the carpark to watch it being restrained.

As for rated rope. How is a cop who pulls me over going to know if and what my rope is rated at? Even if it was written on the rope, how will he know what the load of stuff secured weighs?

Unenforceable I reckon. As I said earlier, I will still be using rope.

[Eevo]

As for rated rope. How is a cop who pulls me over going to know if and what my rope is rated at? Even if it was written on the rope, how will he know what the load of stuff secured weighs?

Unenforceable I reckon. As I said earlier, I will still be using rope.

in SA the cop will defect on suspicion of not meeting standards.

[bob10]

Dave, iirc the telltale dates back to (at least) the days of sailing ships in the Royal Navy. Each RN rope walk used a different colour telltale so that the rope could a) be traced to point of manufacture, and b) if (or when) stolen it was evidence that the rope belonged to the Crown, rather than the 'owner'.
And c) the telltale is in one twist, this marking that twist & making it much easier to follow the twists correctly when splicing.


That's correct, and afaik, it is still the same today. As we found out in Darwin, back in the 80's, when one of our young sailors , in an attempt to woo a young maiden on the sailing ship, " Eye of the Wind ", then in Darwin harbour, gave away one of our old head ropes. Eye of the Wind was raided by the Police [ something to do with a funny weed] , our rope was found, along with tell tale thread. Interesting times. Bob

[Homestar]

In the Telecom rope the ID tape was there for theft purposes. This was later dropped as the cost outweighed the benefit.
As for single use, I did ask a Telecom bloke once and he told me that they were supposed to use it more than once, they just didn't because of laziness.

My two best friends are EX Telecom. I will ask them when I next talk to them.

The reason there is so much of this around, I believe, is that it is copied and used everywhere. I reckon most of what is out there is not from Telstra but other sources.

I purchase a new whole roll a few years back from a swap meet.

Yep, plenty around and good stuff to have on hand. I keep a roll in the garage for all sorts of things. :)

[Scouse]

I have some of the thin blue & yellow rope too but I'd never use it to secure a proper load though. I find it's too thin & slippery to use with a decent truckies hitch & the loop doesn't hold well.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/677.jpg

[SSmith]

Bit of a nanny state law, I just wish people would learn to tie down properly whatever they're using, having successfully dodged a ladder falling from a ute at speed whilst on a motorbike with no space to go.


Define "tie down properly"
Ask 10 different people get 12 different opinions.

The load restraint guide gives a standard to acheive and the written law needs to be there to prosecute against those who donot comply.
I beg to differ, not being nanny state in this case

Yes the thing about rated rope is taking things too far.... or is it? there is actually nothing saying rated rope must be used, but it will be up to you to prove it is strong enough for the task - good luck! as the case for duct tape being used for ladders etc, again if you can prove it it strong enough to withstand accident level forces, fine. The police or traffic authority issues the fine, you try to get it reversed in court. Good luck with that.

Sent from my GT-S7562L using AULRO mobile app

[p38arover]

I have some of the thin blue & yellow rope too but I'd never use it to secure a proper load though. I find it's too thin & slippery to use with a decent truckies hitch & the loop doesn't hold well.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/677.jpg

Crikey! How does one remember how to do that? Even with pictures I couldn't tie that. My wife laughs at me as I tie my shoelaces (which regularly come undone).

[Eevo]

hold in 1 hand, twist other hand
loop end
finish with clove hitch

[p38arover]

finish with clove hitch

That is meaningless to me.

[UncleHo]

Hey Eevo

Show how you shorten a rope :)

[Scouse]

My wife laughs at me as I tie my shoelaces (which regularly come undone).I don't think it's anything to do with shoelaces.



:)

[SSmith]

Crikey! How does one remember how to do that? Even with pictures I couldn't tie that.

I find very few people that i try to teach can pick that method up. There are easier ways to learn, easier done than said tho.
If we ever meet Ron ill take up the challenge :p

Sent from my GT-S7562L using AULRO mobile app

[Eevo]

Hey Eevo

Show how you shorten a rope :)

sheepshank or a pair of snips

[d2dave]

Ron. It is not hard to learn, but if you do not do it regularly, especially early on after learning, it would be easy to forget.

When I learned the truckies hitch I practiced it regulary, sometimes sitting at the table. My lifestyle also has me doing it often, so to me it is now like ridding a bike.

[BigJon]

I have some of the thin blue & yellow rope too but I'd never use it to secure a proper load though. I find it's too thin & slippery to use with a decent truckies hitch & the loop doesn't hold well.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/677.jpg

If the loop that the arrow is going through in the first pic is made into a double loop, the rope won't pull through / slip off.

[V8Ian]

If the loop that the arrow is going through in the first pic is made into a double loop, the rope won't pull through / slip off.
It will with some synthetic ropes.

[87County]

There are easier ways to learn, easier done than said tho.
If we ever meet Ron ill take up the challenge :p

Sapp

I've heard that Ron has a penchant for buying faulty goods, so he's more than likely been sold some faulty rope .....

[Sketer]

Is a cow considered a load.... Do I use a strap or a rope to tie it down... and does the stuff that flows out the back end affect the rating of the restraint I need???:wasntme:

Sketer

[DiscoMick]

Is a cow considered a load.... Do I use a strap or a rope to tie it down... and does the stuff that flows out the back end affect the rating of the restraint I need???:wasntme:

Sketer

Better use a net. And a bucket.

[Blknight.aus]

Dave, iirc the telltale dates back to (at least) the days of sailing ships in the Royal Navy. Each RN rope walk used a different colour telltale so that the rope could a) be traced to point of manufacture, and b) if (or when) stolen it was evidence that the rope belonged to the Crown, rather than the 'owner'.
And c) the telltale is in one twist, this marking that twist & making it much easier to follow the twists correctly when splicing.

all almost all correct...

the tell tale also allowed the rope to be quickly identified when you had multiple lines in one location. Some also had a different material woven into them so they could be distinguished by touch.

back to the telstra/telecom/parmatta rope.

the other thing the plastic insert provided was a wear indication function. when the rope was placed under tension or roved the plastic trace and the markings on it would be distorted and smudged. A well roven rope would show obvious signs of wear but one that had only been stretched not so much.

On paper if your length of rope hadn't come off of the drum you would find a section near the end and check the plastic trace, if you could read it you could use it.

[carjunkieanon]

http://www.bullsbrookscouts.com/resources/_wp_generated/wp9fb1db88_06.png

Make the bight on the right hand side longer when it goes through the loop and then tie a hitch around the rope that goes over the load. Then, once you the free end tight, to give you even more tensioning, tie a second truckies hitch on that, pull tight, then finish with clove hitch to the rail.

[scarry]

Crikey! How does one remember how to do that? Even with pictures I couldn't tie that. My wife laughs at me as I tie my shoelaces (which regularly come undone).

Even i can do that one.Once you have done it many times,like riding a bike,you never forget.

It was drilled into me as an apprentice,tying large commercial refrigeration cabinets onto HQ utes.In those days they had proper heavy duty tie rails running down both sides of the tray.Not like the utes today.

As for telstra rope,we use it all the time.:)

[Scouse]

Make the bight on the right hand side longer when it goes through the loop and then tie a hitch around the rope that goes over the load. Then, once you the free end tight, to give you even more tensioning, tie a second truckies hitch on that, pull tight, then finish with clove hitch to the rail.That makes it harder to undo when unloading. I just like to undo the finishing clove hitch, yank on the rope & the main hitch comes undone.
Easy peasy when using the right rope & can make a big difference when you have to release up to 10 of them on a truck.

[p38arover]

Off to Google clove hitch.....

.... nah, that looks impossible to remember.

[Albert]

The cops were fining people in CQ for a while for things like work boots on ute trays, I even had a friend threatened with a fine for unrestrained load for things inside her car!
Happily some one fought it in court. I cant remember the exact wording, but the judge said it had to have a reasonable chance of falling off/out to be fined. The cops have not been enforcing it since.

[Red90]

If a person is knowledgeable enough and caring enough to determine the correct level and method of load restraint, they will do it regardless of whether they use a strap, chain or rope.

The "other" people that do not have the knowledge or level of care will not use the correct restraint regardless of whether it is a rope or strap or chain.

Making it illegal to use a rope does not make any actual impact in restraint safety.

[Ratel10mm]

all almost all correct...

the tell tale also allowed the rope to be quickly identified when you had multiple lines in one location. Some also had a different material woven into them so they could be distinguished by touch.

back to the telstra/telecom/parmatta rope.

the other thing the plastic insert provided was a wear indication function. when the rope was placed under tension or roved the plastic trace and the markings on it would be distorted and smudged. A well roven rope would show obvious signs of wear but one that had only been stretched not so much.

On paper if your length of rope hadn't come off of the drum you would find a section near the end and check the plastic trace, if you could read it you could use it.

Good point Dave, I'd forgotten that one. I have seen some yachts using multiple colours of rope for the same reason.

Interesting about the Telstra Trace, too.

[Blknight.aus]

Good point Dave, I'd forgotten that one. I have seen some yachts using multiple colours of rope for the same reason.

Interesting about the Telstra Trace, too.

one of the oldest fastest boaties I've ever had the privilege to aspire to taught me the importance of it. Not only were his lines colour coded and subtly different his hook up hardware and eyelets were all subtly different. I scoffed at him so to prove his point he sat me at the tiller, blindfolded himself then rigged up and handled the sails while I did the steering.


If I remember it rightly the lesson was

"why, when you're operating in such a intensely physically interactive environment would you want to rely on just one sense which is so easily obscured and not directly connected to what you are doing?"

[mick110]

i to think this is a poor law, i grew up in scouts and what you can do with a rope out ways what you can do with a strap, ie ab sailing rock climbing, all sorts of lashings we built tables stools , suspension bridges and any thing you could think of, a good rope with the right not will never loosen and when its wet it will even tighten, a cheap strap with a Chinese spring will fail long before a rope will, i use ropes all the time and find for odd shaped loads a rope is the correct tool for the job, i will continue to use a rope, no strap will ever compare. just my opinion .

[CraigE]

There are a couple of misconception regarding ropes. Most decent ropes have some sort of rating so can be used for appropriate circumstances, though you may need to prove the rating. Adding an additional rated rope or strap does not neccesarily increase the capacity of the load tied down, eg just running 2 x 200kg rated ropes across a load does not automatically change the rating to accommodate 400kgs. It is to do with the impact load force on that rope so in a lot of cases will still only be 200kg max. then as soon as you put any knot in a rope it reduces load capacity by 20-30%. Then there is also calculating the force exerted on the rope. It is not just the weight of the item being carried, but the force exerted in circumstances of deceleration etc. So in effect a 20kg item can easily become nearly 80kg in force in certain situations.
Roping and tying down loads vertically over a load is also fairly different from securing horizontal movement so require different methods.
I generally use static kernmantle rope for heavier loads as it is rated to 3000kgs and even as in rescue when working with a safety margin of 8-1 is still way in excess of most laods.
I think you would have most police officers silenced if you actually asked them to calculate the load and determine the force and load restraint required. We would all need to carry a riggers handbook and calculator with us or have a good understanding of rigging calculations.

[loneranger]

As someone who has very limited ability when it comes to knots I use straps. However they are a lot more limited in the way you can tie down a load. If the actual law change is to ban the use of ropes it is ridiculous as they are far more versatile than any strap.

I did a bit of searching and was unable to find anything in relation to actual law changes. So is this a change in the interpretation of the law or an actual change to the legislation? There is a big difference.

[hodgo]

Learning to tie knots
I have read all the posts regarding rope and the use of, and having spent nearly 10 years driver training with the army and nearly 3 yrs with the Road Transport Training Council loading and lashing was subject that I spent a lot of time teaching. Old army training always starts with the care and use of your equipment. As Mick 110 said its a poor law and if I was fined I would be inclined to settle the case in a court. Just about any rope o r strap that comes into contact with any petroleum product will lose its rated strength quickly, While with the RTTC, I was called upon to write a report on the restraints used by a transport company that was involved in an accident due to its load moving, It was hard to say which broke first but the 12 mil polly. Rope had broken and one strap had snapped, On close inspection of the strap I found that all the stitching on the end of it where the hook is was rotten due to having come in contact with petroleum and possibly other chemical products it was another accident waiting to happen, and the rope was 50% stained from oil
Polypropylene ropes are all so very sanative to high UV and I have seen then wear from the inside from being left or draged on the ground, grit etc gets into the fibbers and chafe the stands.
When teaching any one to tieknots the best way is to have the student sit behind you on step or stairs so that they are not getting a mirror view I had a group of students that I had to teach how to splice rope using this method it worked.
In regards to the truckies hitch I have seen several variations of this knot and most work successfully, but I have seen a lot slip while being tied or at a time when they are under greater stress than when tied. This is due to either the tier not knowing how to tie it correctly and or new or unsuitable rope.
Just as a point of interest I once witnessed a LWB Landrover bogged to the axles recovered with 12mil rope with three truckies hitches in one rope recovered by two soldiers.


Hodgo

[DiscoMick]

I imagine the cops are favouring ropes because mugs like me have not had expert training in how to tie ropes and so straps are much easier for us to get right. And then a net is there to catch bits of the load which fly out.


However, I must say when I recently threw a net over a trailer load of mulch I got from the tip I was pretty skeptical about whether the net would actually do much if I hit a strong wind. Judging by the trails of mulch along the roadside on the way out of the tip I'd say my scepticism was justified. Even throwing a tarp under a net might not have caught it all.

[Redback]

As someone who has very limited ability when it comes to knots I use straps. However they are a lot more limited in the way you can tie down a load. If the actual law change is to ban the use of ropes it is ridiculous as they are far more versatile than any strap.

I did a bit of searching and was unable to find anything in relation to actual law changes. So is this a change in the interpretation of the law or an actual change to the legislation? There is a big difference.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I would imagine it's a reminder that like any restraint including rope needs to be rated, I would say they are changing the "the interpretation of the law "

Makes sense that if all other forms of restraints are rated, then rope should be also.

Baz.

[BMKal]

I just spent all morning hunting around Kalgoorlie for some turnbuckles to secure a 40 litre Engel fridge to the fridge slide. Needed them correct length with hooks both ends - not easy to find so I found out. Eventually found at a small 4WD Accessories place who used to sell Engel fridges and accessories.

Option 2 if I could not find turnbuckles was to use 4 small ratchet straps, or possibly cam-lock luggage straps - but I couldn't find any small enough to do that either.

Option 3 was going to be 4 lengths of rope with truckies hitches, at least until I get across to Adelaide later in the week and could find something better.

BUT ..................... 2 of the places that I went to suggested that I just use elasticized "occy" straps. :eek:

Seriously ..................... holding a loaded 40 litre Engel in place with oversized elastic bands. Some people simply have no idea. Both places that suggested this option were well known auto accessories stores. ;)

[DiscoMick]

I just use ratchet straps. Engel do sell rated straps, I seem to remember.

[p38arover]

I use straps. They are quite short and have hooks and eyes. I think they are Andy Strapz. I'll check later. They could be Michelle's. See Fridge Tie Down Kit - MSA 4x4 Accessories (http://www.msa4x4.com.au/products/fridge-tie-down-kit/) (no pics there)

They look like these:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/xKFzW_rX5mo/maxresdefault.jpg

[loneranger]

When I was tying my boat trailer down to the camper yesterday I looked at my straps. All of my Rhino straps are rated. The cheaper blue and white ones I have didn't have anything that I could read but from memory when you buy them the display box has ratings on them.

[BMKal]

Was looking for ratchet straps small enough to tie the fridge down too. I thought that with the number of Engel and Waeco sellers in this town, somebody would have something ........................ no such luck.

All sorted now though ............ the turnbuckles I picked up from Fanetti's have done the job. He even broke open a kit and only charged me for the turnbuckles rather than the complete Engel kit, as I already had the brackets. :D

Picked up some of these retractable ratchet tie-down straps from SupaCrap today - $40 for two of them. Ideal for holding the tent and other camping gear up on the roof and no long tails to tie up to stop them blowing in the wind.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/436.jpg

Bunnings have similar, but $55 for a pair of them in there.

[Homestar]

Is this legal? It's using a ratchet strap so it must be fine right?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[BigJon]

Strap is twisted, no good.

[Homestar]

Damn! so close...

[Toxic_Avenger]

Is this legal? It's using a ratchet strap so it must be fine right?


http://perfectlycursedlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Seems-legit-random-28286619-552-414.png

[Blknight.aus]

you also havent engaged the hook on a rated point and the tail on the free end is more than 30 cms long and the excess length isn't appropriately secured.

I also cant see the rating printed on the strap or the evidence of the tag that carries that info

the restraint is not positioned to provide any forwards or backwards restraint of the load and the strap has obviously damaged the load, you can clearly see where its cut into the top of it.

[Milton477]

I use 6 of these to secure multiple 8x4 melamine/chipboard/ply etc sheets to my roof bars. I have tried ratchet straps & rope in various configurations but nothing works anywhere near as well to stop the middle boards sliding out. If I am to lose the load, it will take the roof bars with it. Just have to be careful not to crush the roof bars with the 8500 newtons force these clams can apply. They also work well with SHS, RHS, angle iron, lengths of timber etc. I wonder what the "authorities" will say when they catch up with me one day. Haven't had a load come loose in 15 odd years of using this method.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/newattachment.php'do=manageattach&p=

[Eevo]

if a cop complains, just tie him/her up and ask if they feel adequately restrained.

[joel0407]

if a cop complains, just tie him/her up and ask if they feel adequately restrained.

That's a fantastic response.

Happy Days

[SSmith]

you also havent engaged the hook on a rated point and the tail on the free end is more than 30 cms long and the excess length isn't appropriately secured.

I also cant see the rating printed on the strap or the evidence of the tag that carries that info

the restraint is not positioned to provide any forwards or backwards restraint of the load and the strap has obviously damaged the load, you can clearly see where its cut into the top of it.

Thanks for taking over, I got tired of feeding the trolls :p

Sent from my GT-S7562L using AULRO mobile app

[d2dave]

A couple of years ago Vic Roads put out a booklet on how various loads were to be restrained , probably 1/2 an inch thick which showed how machinery,wool bales, pipes and all manner of things were to be secured. Well they existed until someone there thought of what happens when the load that is secured as per their book shifts and injures someone? They then pulled the book and now you can't get it. A handy book though.

Lindsay.

This one?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/135.jpg

[DiscoMick]

Is this legal? It's using a ratchet strap so it must be fine right?

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=92142&d=1427535983

Where is the net?

[LandyAndy]

Where is the net?

Its what you are using to look at the pic!!!
Andrew

[DiscoMick]

I think the holes in that net are too large - a copper could certainly put his fist though them.

[bee utey]

Its what you are using to look at the pic!!!
Andrew
In fact, you could rope down the load with a roll of cat5 network cable and you could claim it was rated...:cool:


I think the holes in that net are too large - a copper could certainly put his fist though them.

No doubt optic fibre cable would be more suitable...national broadband netting...

[joel0407]

In fact, you could rope down the load with a roll of cat5 network cable and you could claim it was rated...:cool:



No doubt optic fibre cable would be more suitable...national broadband netting...

Optic cable is rated. As long as you use a properly attached snotter, I couldn't see the problem.

[rangieman]

Well on the weekend i broke what is acclaimed to be against the law :angel:
Picked up 2 sheets of 3.6 lazer light and 4 lengths of 2.7 metre 40x90mm treated pine all tied on the roof rack with rope using the tried and tested Truckies knot.
I feel so guilty . Not realy i could not give a toss and if i ever get pulled over and questioned i will argue the point.
In 30 years of truck driving i have tied knots thousand,s of times i can honestly tie knots blind folded good enough to go anywhere in the country and not come loose.

[Mick_Marsh]

Interestingly, last week I saw a white van with some electrical conduit ratchet strapped to the roof bars. I didn't see if they were rated but I assume they were. He was traveling towards me. He slowed and turned left, however, the conduits continued at the same speed in the same direction.
It was the laws fault, not his. He did as the law instructed him.

Take away common sense and there is no sense at all.

[bsperka]

http://i.imgur.com/DlzegdU.jpg

I don't understand, I was using straps....

[Eevo]

all good sir, the rope is rated

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/73.jpg

[joel0407]

It was the laws fault, not his. He did as the law instructed him.


Doesn't the law instruct him to properly secure his load?

We would tie 25 lengths of 100mm Telstra conduit on an angle from the tray of a Hilux ute to up over the head board. We would back up to a wall to load them and tie them on. They were always tied with Telstra rope and I never lost one. We did however employ/hire some guys through Skilled Engineering. They were just employed as labourers so I guess I can't be too harsh that they weren't very skilled. More than one of those guys managed to loose more than one length.

It's all about how you use the rope not the rope.

Happy Days.