Third Roof Cross Bar on Lower Section of Roof

[eddomak]

I thought I should probably start a new thread rather than go too far off topic...

This is on a solution for fitting a third roof bar on the front/lower section of the roof when you don't have long rails (factory, Rhino, or otherwise). It will enable you to carry longer loads (timber, sheet goods, kayaks, roof boxes, OzTents, and/or distribute the weight better to allow the rear door to open etc). It can be easily put on, or removed.


To be perfectly honest, I am about to get this installed but have already consulted with Roof Rack World and have measured it up for length and level to existing rear bars, as well as how well the rubber base sits on the existing black trim, and am sure they can do it, and the quote is $175. I can supply you with all the part numbers from the quote once I get home tonight.

Anyway, the idea is to do this:
1) remove plastic plugs on the lower section of roof (just above the driver/passenger's head) to expose threaded hole (that is used for attaching factory long rails).
2) position these bars (exact model number coming) in place with appropriate height spacer if necessary (even though by nature they are already taller than the existing RST, so they are quite close already)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/683.jpg
4) Use single screw through each leg straight into the threaded hole

When the bar is removed, then put some plastic plugs back in.

The advantages (over installing another section of short rail on the lower section of roof):
1) Faster initial install (for Roof Rack World) - no cutting plastic, riveting short rail into place etc) = cheaper!
2) Faster to put rail in place - 1 screw per side, whereas the other suggested leg needs 2 screws per side
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/684.jpg
3) Simpler solution - why put in a rail when there is only the ability to vary the distance around 2cm?

The disadvantage is that I will need to buy bulk pack of plastic plugs as they will eventually break with too many in/out's. But these are cheap.

The part numbers are:
RLT506 - Track Leg Kit
VA137B - VA BAR BLACK 1375mm
VA-FK2 - VA Bar Fit Kit for RLCP Legs

And here is a a shout out to the team at Roof Rack World Artarmon who always do an aweseome job in pre-sales queries as well as all the times I have had to deal with them. EVERY staff member there has been knowledgeable and friendly no matter how busy it gets, and everyone I have recommended has appreciated their service. Well done!

[RobA]

We have three Rhino aero bars fitted with two on the high section and one on the low side. This gives us the following; an opportunity to fit a wire basket that holds around 90% of our average touring needs and a 2.1m wire mesh platform that holds, spare tyre, JC and space case when we are doing a Simpson crossing for example. Roof Rack City Adelaide fitted the rails and twin screw clamping bases per your second photo as we reckon that spreads the load more evenly on the roof and offers two points of contact with the rails so is less of a point load

Rob

[letherm]

Hi Eddomak.

If you do get the part number I would certainly like to be informed as I like the idea of the additional third roof rack bar with the single screw mount. I mainly want it for added security with long stuff on the roof - lengths of timber for example so a single screw should be quite sufficient. BTW, where did you get the plugs from? Could do with some as well. The dealer originally had to scavenge some to go into the holes left after they installed the rails.

Thanks for going to the trouble of posting this - appreciated :)

Regards,
Martin

[eddomak]

Hi Eddomak.
If you do get the part number I would certainly like to be informed as I like the idea of the additional third roof rack bar with the single screw mount.


The part numbers are:
RLT506 - Track Leg Kit
VA137B - VA BAR BLACK 1375mm
VA-FK2 - VA Bar Fit Kit for RLCP Legs



I mainly want it for added security with long stuff on the roof - lengths of timber for example so a single screw should be quite sufficient.

I agree. In the end the long rails are also mounted via that single screw point anyway. The weight goes through the pads (and screw) to the roof, but it is still the same amount of shear force in the end.



BTW, where did you get the plugs from? Could do with some as well. The dealer originally had to scavenge some to go into the holes left after they installed the rails.


When I get some I'll let you know.



Thanks for going to the trouble of posting this - appreciated :)


No worries! I thought I should post it up anyway as it sounds like a moderately simple solution for those times you just need that extra length. I started this search because my new OzTent was so long that it would drape onto the roof, and it seemed getting the Rhino long narrow wire mesh basket would be both expensive and add another 20kgs to the roof as well as taking even more time to fix onto the roof racks each time I wanted to use it. I found the rear bars alone fine for 90% of what I do, and don't like the look of having 3 bars there all the time.

[ColinD4]

Hi eddomak,

I also have the 3 bars as RobA and would be interested to know how you are getting the extra height with the single screw leg to ensure the 3 bars are level, which you will need to for the Oztent. The RLTF (2 screw) are designed to take the height spacers but can't see how you can use these on the single screw leg?

Colin

[RobA]

Colin well spotted. Yes one more reason why we use the twin bolt setup. We have the Rhino spacers in the front bar to keep it all level and it works perfectly. If you carry any real weight up there the platform/tray has to be level or or it will create enough torsional force to rip it all out. Seen this happen with overloaded racks in the Simpson almost every trip

Rob

[eddomak]

OK, with all the interest, I got it fitted this morning, and here it is, in all its glory. :D

The leg style was a little different from the original picture, but was indeed the one listed in the parts list they gave me. Also I decided to go with a shorter bar than the original quote as it is closer to the bar length that I already had - I would not have needed the extra 11cm. This also happened to bring the cost down to $172.50 fully installed.

Final parts list:

RLT506 - Track Leg Kit 2 ($92)
VA126B - VA Bar Black 1260mm ($74.50)
VA-FK2 - VA Bar Fit Kit for RLCP Legs ($6.00)
M6 x 50mm Bolts x 2 (complimentary)


As you can see, it is totally level with the existing rear RST legs on the track.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/eddomak-albums-d4+front+roof+rack-picture5243-perfectly-level.jpg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/eddomak-albums-d4+front+roof+rack-picture5242-perfectly-level-2.jpg

A close up on the legs and spacers
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/eddomak-albums-d4+front+roof+rack-picture5244-rack-place.jpg

And just the spacers...
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/eddomak-albums-d4+front+roof+rack-picture5245-rack-leg-spacer.jpg

You will need M5 x 50mm stainless steel screws
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/eddomak-albums-d4+front+roof+rack-picture5237-m5-x-50.jpg

... which are longer than the screws supplied with the Rhino legs
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/eddomak-albums-d4+front+roof+rack-picture5236-bolt-comparison.jpg

The original plastic plug (10mm) which unscrews, and the factory M5 threaded hole.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/eddomak-albums-d4+front+roof+rack-picture5238-oem-plastic-plug-10mm.jpg

I was concerned whether the front of my Thule top box would be lower than the new front bar and bump into it, but no problems - with plenty of clearance, so if you have a longer box it is probably OK as well.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/eddomak-albums-d4+front+roof+rack-picture5241-oztent-thule-side.jpg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/eddomak-albums-d4+front+roof+rack-picture5246-thule-rear-clearance.jpg


Plenty of room for both the top box and the OzTent.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/eddomak-albums-d4+front+roof+rack-picture5239-oztent-thule-front.jpg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/eddomak-albums-d4+front+roof+rack-picture5240-oztent-thule-rear.jpg


So I hope this helps out someone.

Once again Roof Rack World Artarmon were great (talk to Paul) and really liked this solution and took some pictures. They took less than an hour, and would have taken less if I hadn't asked them to change over from the longer bars (that Rhino recommended) to the shorter ones.

[letherm]

Hi Eddomak

Thanks for all of the pictures etc. Brilliant :D

Looks like a trip to Artarmon is in order.

Regards,
Martin

[kenl]

Are you sure they are not M6? On my d4 they certainly are.

[eddomak]

THANKS kenl! Just checked and they ARE M6 x 50mm.

It looks like I can't edit the original post, so hopefully a moderator can do it for me. (Please)

[Melbourne Park]

I am looking for roof rack options for my D4.

But I have an Oztent 5 model, and used it a few times on my Prado (a 90 series 1997 V6 GLX).

I mounted the Oztent as far back as I could as I think it saves fuel - I had it poking out the back a bit.

I also mounted the Oztent on a large sized polyethylene cutting board. I attached some bridge eye mounts to the chopping board, and then attached the chopping board to the roof rack, with some elastic with hooks on the end.

So ... this meant that when you remove the Oztent, the board bends downwards in accord with the angle of the Oztent. This results in the Oztent sliding up very easily, and sliding down very easily.

The downside of this system, is that with the Oztent off, the board can vibrate if left alone!!! I had not thought of that!!!

If you put some teflon sheet onto the board, it the Oztent slides on even easier!!

I don't know why Oztent don't have a fitting to allow easier one person sliding on and off a bar??

But I'm now using a Disco because I bought a Matrix Australian Off road trailer ... its even faster than an Oztent!! And warmer too!!

[scarry]

This is our set up,i thought long and hard about the front rail.Decided to try without it.
What i ended up doing is picking up the long thin rack off gumtree,it is made for the Oztent.The long handled shovel also fits in as well.I fitted the two rhino rails as far apart as possible,on the high section of the roof,but made sure the rear upper tailgate would still open fully.

We have travelled extensively like this,over some very rough and corrugated roads and never had an issue.The blue foam is to protect the tent rubbing on the rack on rough roads.

As there is only two of us,we don't need a full length,wide rack.

Apologise for the quality of the pic.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/371.jpg (http://picturepush.com/public/14587276)

[eddomak]

Final parts list:

RLT506 - Track Leg Kit 2 ($92)
VA126B - VA Bar Black 1260mm ($74.50)
VA-FK2 - VA Bar Fit Kit for RLCP Legs ($6.00)
M6 x 50mm Bolts x 2 (complimentary)



Please note that someone from this forum quoted the part numbers above and in double checking what is actually installed, to the part number in red, it seems there is a discrepancy and the photo on the Rhinorack website (http://www.rhinorack.com.au/products/roof-rack-parts/spacers/vortex-bar-rlcp-fit-kit_va-fk2) . Maybe it is just what they used to charge against on the invoice? Anyway the part installed is shown below with the factory numbers:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/875.jpg

[Redback]

Please note that someone from this forum quoted the part numbers above and in double checking what is actually installed, to the part number in red, it seems there is a discrepancy and the photo on the Rhinorack website (http://www.rhinorack.com.au/products/roof-rack-parts/spacers/vortex-bar-rlcp-fit-kit_va-fk2) . Maybe it is just what they used to charge against on the invoice? Anyway the part installed is shown below with the factory numbers:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/875.jpg

I have a few of those(in the link) and 3 Vortex cross bars sitting in the garage gathering dust, tried to sell them, but knowone seems interested.

Baz.

[l00kin4]

Please note that someone from this forum quoted the part numbers above and in double checking what is actually installed, to the part number in red, it seems there is a discrepancy and the photo on the Rhinorack website (http://www.rhinorack.com.au/products/roof-rack-parts/spacers/vortex-bar-rlcp-fit-kit_va-fk2) . Maybe it is just what they used to charge against on the invoice? Anyway the part installed is shown below with the factory numbers:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/eddomak-albums-d4+front+roof+rack-picture5481-plastic-spacer.jpg

If it helps anyone, I think the photo in the link to the Rhino website is for the kit to fit the bars to the legs. The base pad/s come with the leg kit:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=97303&stc=1&d=1438728404

Above extracted from the full instructions: http://vpm.cdn.rhinorack.com.au/Instructions/Parts/Legs/RLT500.pdf

David

[Parkes]

I have a few of those(in the link) and 3 Vortex cross bars sitting in the garage gathering dust, tried to sell them, but knowone seems interested.

Baz.

Hi Baz,

I'm looking at getting a third bar, would you be interested in selling one?

Are they the style in the link below are the feet the ones that go into the LR roof rails?

Vortex Bar - #VA106S | Rhino-Rack (http://www.rhinorack.com.au/products/roof-rack-parts/bars/vortex-bar-silver-1065mm-_va106s)

Cheers,

Andrew

[winaje]

Hi Baz,

I'm looking at getting a third bar, would you be interested in selling one?

Are they the style in the link below are the feet the ones that go into the LR roof rails?

Vortex Bar - #VA106S | Rhino-Rack (http://www.rhinorack.com.au/products/roof-rack-parts/bars/vortex-bar-silver-1065mm-_va106s)

Cheers,

Andrew

Baz' bars are currently atop my D3, sorry mate.

[Parkes]

Baz' bars are currently atop my D3, sorry mate.


No worries mate, glad to hear that Baz got rid of them all in the end.

Cheers,

Andrew

[RobA]

We use 3x Vortex bars for long trips as that is when we put the long platform up but for shorter trips we remove the front bar and use the two rears and our mesh basket which is fine for pretty much everything including a Simpson but for the Kimberley and anything over say 3 weeks the long mesh platform goes up.

Removal of the front bar is simple with only the key required

Rob

[Aussie Jeepster]

124964
So, just making sure this is the right list of parts. It looks right to me but with all the other photos mixed up, I wanted to make sure.

[l00kin4]

124964
So, just making sure this is the right list of parts. It looks right to me but with all the other photos mixed up, I wanted to make sure.

In the context of the original discussion, it is the right list. That pic seems to have survived the mix-up.

David

[Ludes]

G'day
Wonder if anybody sees any issues using this two cross bar configuration, 1st bar on the lower roof section, 2nd bar on the mid mounting point of the upper roof. Long surf board and kayak only for the moment.

166038

[loanrangie]

None at all.

[Mick n Ange]

I've just been trying to find a solution to the same issue. I have a D3 which has the short track and was purchased with 2 x Rhino Sportz (discontinued) bars attached. I would like to add a 3rd bar to the front (lower) section, directly into the factory mounting point.

The best option IMHO is the Rhino Backbone system, BUT, at $506 just for the Backbone rails, and then $85 per HD bar fitted, plus the cost of a kayak carrying kit, the cost quickly escalates.

Being a scrooge I dived headlong into this thread trying to sort out my solution as cheaply as possible.

So I need the new front bar to sit at ~145mm above the mounting point to be in line with the two existing racks. Unfortunately the OP solution wasn't going to work. I spoke to Rhino, Rola & ProRack on the phone and the only way I can figure out how to get it to work is using the following ProRack parts. I've ordered them today from SCA Goulburn. Hopefully everything arrives in the next week or so and I can have it fitted ready to carry our Kayak for Christmas holidays.

Fitting Kit K436 (Legs)
Fitting Kit K436 | Prorack Australia (https://www.prorack.com.au/fitting-kit-k436)
Heavy Duty Bar Height Packers - 8 Pack

Heavy Duty Bar Height Packers – 8 Pack | Prorack Australia (https://www.prorack.com.au/heavy-duty-bar-height-packers-8-pack)
Heavy Duty Bar Silver 137.5cm Single
Heavy Duty Bar Silver 137.5 cm Single | Prorack Australia (https://www.prorack.com.au/t17half-heavy-duty-bar-silver-1375-cm-single#details-block)
Kayak Carrier
Kayak Carrier | Prorack Australia (https://www.prorack.com.au/kayak-carrier)

Total cost =~ $500 (less than the Backbone rails themselves, let alone all the additional kit)

Once it all arrives and I've fitted it I'll post again with some photos.

Hopefully this helps someone else looking to solve a similar issue.

[veebs]

I'm probably missing something here - why not simply install the extended roof rails, and use a standard cross bar?

[3Disco]

Frontrunner did do a loadbar kit. Photos below

[loanrangie]

I'm probably missing something here - why not simply install the extended roof rails, and use a standard cross bar?

You could fit aftermarket rails but the quality seems a bit lacking from what ive read and you wouldn't end up much in front, i'm sure there is a much cheaper option though as rhino make legs than will bolt directly to the mounting points.