Mini Jump Starter

[Redback]

After seeing the mini jump starter on episode 115 of Your 4x4 on Youtube, I decided to investigate them further, it seems these have been around for a while now, and the only thing that is new is there getting more powerful and they are now available with 600CCA with an amp rating of 50,000mAh, I don't really know what that means exactly, but I'm assuming it has to do with how many times it can be used over a period of time, or how many cycle I think the term is.

Now if you own a European Diesel engined vehicle(which includes Jeeps) 600 CCA is not all that big, as most Euro vehicle batteries are an AGM style battery and 900CCA minimum(eg) our D2 was 980CCA with 110Ah and our D4 is 950CCA with 90Ah storage, this is where the problem could be, will 600cca be enough to give charge to kick over a vehicle with a 900cca battery.

I think my issue really is not the CCA but the size of the device, we have a Projecta jump starter, and it is big, but only has 400CCA, I have used it many times at it does work very well, I have only used it once on our cars though and it did work to kick over our D2, am I worrying too much about the size.

Anyway, here are a few I've been looking at;

This one seems to be sold by different companies(Kingcrome/Battery World/batteries Direct) under different part numbers, but looks like it's the same model device, all around the same price, with Kingcrome being the cheapest, it is only a single purpose device.

Kincrome KP1402 Kick Start Jump Starter 600CCA Rechargeable LI ION Pack | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KINCROME-KP1402-KICK-START-JUMP-STARTER-600CCA-RECHARGEABLE-LI-ION-PACK-/221688010188?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item339da295cc)

I looked as closely as possible at the one in the YOUR 4X4 video, I'm assuming it was a promotional one for testing (had no name on it)and the closest I could get to it was this one, it also claims to be specific to diesel engines, $299 for the top one and the price is $174 for the second and a multi purpose device.
Mini Jump Starter PowerVOLT MJS004 (http://www.minijumpstarter.com/new-page-2/mjs-powervolt4.html)

Also this one, which claims to be able to start an engine up to a 4.5ltr turbo diesel V8, it's also the dearest at $240.
Super Mini Booster Jump Starter Pack | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Super-mini-booster-Jump-Starter-Pack/201231272402?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1% 26asc%3D29393%26meid%3D1903823971f2435497af519fbb9 c23c6%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D231 495052243)

Baz.

[Redback]

Anyone got a mini jump starter, I'm thinking about getting one, but would like to know if anyone with a D3/D4/RRS has one and what they think of them.

I've put a more detailed thread in the Tech section for a more technical query.

Baz.

[Tombie]

Sure do!
When I can stand/walk again I will go to the workshop and take s pic...

[Redback]

Sure do!
When I can stand/walk again I will go to the workshop and take s pic...

Thanks Mike, what's your opinion of them!!

[Ean Austral]

You mean like a thumper battery pack/ jumper type thing.


I got 1 but never used it on the D3, used it on the D2 a few times, and to run a fridge.


Downfall was size, may as well just carry another battery with you. Cost would be similar as well.


Cheers Ean

[Redback]

You mean like a thumper battery pack/ jumper type thing.


I got 1 but never used it on the D3, used it on the D2 a few times, and to run a fridge.


Downfall was size, may as well just carry another battery with you. Cost would be similar as well.


Cheers Ean

Like this, size of an iPhone
mini Jump Starter? (http://www.minijumpstarter.com/new-page-2.html)

[Tombie]

Not quite that small Baz...
91949

Works great..

[Davehoos]

local ford dealer was selling a SP tools 500 amp starter pack.
rated at running a 3 liter diesel or 5 liter petrol. showed a rating of 20 amp hr on the pack. $199. they been selling these for running camp fridges. same size as an old car radio radio.


Work mate bought ebay Christmas presents. 3 for $100 from china. about the size of a note book phone. The discussion was how can it work. It had 8 mm wires and ran a diesel 3 cyl furgy without another battery. the rating on it was 160 000 milli amphours-and that stuff all.

[Tombie]

They work because Lifepo4 can pack a hell of a punch for a short time.

[pop058]

Not quite that small Baz...
91949

Works great..

I have one of these as well. Very happy with it although only ever used it on toyotas and commodores :D

[Redback]

I'm looking at these smaller ones at 615grams, not 5kg like your's, that photo is a bit misleading and not much lighter than the large Projecta jump starter I already have, but I must say they having up to 1200CCA is impressive, I might investigate these further, there must be a smaller one.

This
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/671.jpg

Also looking at this one
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Multi-Function-50800mAh-Auto-Car-Jump-Starter-Booster-Power-Bank-Battery-Charger-/131397750627?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1e97ea8f63

Baz.

[Eevo]

i have one
but i am sus about the amp ratings of these.

the cables simply are not thick enough to handle that amount of current.

[Eevo]

https://media.autobarn.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/500x500/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/s/ssc05_1.jpg

Jump start vehicles up to 6LT or 3LT diesel
12,800MAH lithium polymer battery

$120

[mhewitt]

They work because Lifepo4 can pack a hell of a punch for a short time.

I can believe in the battery - but I'm buggered if I can see how you can pull a whole bunch of current through the weedy little wires to the clamps...

[Redback]

Yes me too, but the one on the your 4x4 episode worked and seemed to work well, it was an Isuzu 3.0lt TD, so I'm assuming it should work as well with the D4s 2.7lt TDV6.

Baz.

[BMKal]

This one lives in the pouch in the back rest of the passenger's seat in my D4 Baz. Bought it some time ago on special at one of those 4WD and Camping Shows.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/662.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/663.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/664.jpg

I've never had to use it on the D4, but it has worked OK on the couple of occasions that I've used it on the D2 and a mate's Navara. The battery in the car that you're "jumping" still needs to have a reasonable amount of charge - I wouldn't think that this thing would start a car with a dead flat battery (though the manufacturers claim otherwise). ;)

I've found the best thing about is the range of adaptors / plugs that came with it. I've used it many times to charge phones / cameras / my portable wireless hot spot etc. You can re-charge it either from mains power or from the cigarette lighter socket in your car.

Has come in very handy on more than one camping trip. :D

[Tombie]

That's spot on BM... If the vehicle is flat - these things don't have a chance!

Even the pack I have will only just push a dead (and I mean dead) TD5 over..

[Eevo]

That's spot on BM... If the vehicle is flat - these things don't have a chance!

Even the pack I have will only just push a dead (and I mean dead) TD5 over..

there are youtubes vids where they start a car with the battery removed.

[benji]

I've got that exact sjs one that Eevo put up.
It'll start a 4.6 when the battery is at 9v with no trouble at all.
The motor did snap start though, and I wonder how much winding time it would have given me, let alone a diesel with glow plugs. .

However I've only used it the once.



Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[Tombie]

Petrols aren't as bad - lower compression...

[999]

You can make your own. there's a few youtube vids check out this guys effort, Mini BoostPack 12V Capacitor Car Battery | Laser Hacker Alternative Energy (http://laserhacker.com/?p=110).

[Eevo]

this is the one i own
JumpsPower AMG6 Pocket Jump Starter (http://www.arnosmater.com/jumpspower/amg6)
i have never used it in anger
cost me 70 or 80 bucks.


this vid is starting a subaru
not sure if its a 2l or 2.5l


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpduEXPyoA0



this vid shows it starting a few cars, one after the other

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMQN7FEU_sk

[Redback]

OK thanks guys, armed with all this, I think it may be worth getting, I've put up the Your 4x4 episode 115 below if you're interested in seeing one of these mini jump starters work on a 3.0lt Isuzu turbo diesel, it's 5 mins in, the episode is not very good, trying to get to fancy with their editing I think, also all the other episodes of this Kimberley trip are also a bit average, I was hoping I could some ideas from it, but it's like a lot of their stuff, just one big ad.

Anyway here's episode 115, go to 4.55 for the mini jump starter bit, if it doesn't start at that point.

https://youtu.be/kk1s4I5jNI8

Baz.

[mark2]

They work because Lifepo4 can pack a hell of a punch for a short time.

What can they be discharged down to safely?
Wondering how long a 50 A/hr version would run a fridge..
ie, normal practice is that there's about 50 A/hr of useful/safe capacity in a typical 100 A/hr lead acid battery before the battery doesnt like it.

The other thing I'm interested in is the charge rates that these things can accept, can they take higher rates than a lead acid battery?

[Blknight.aus]

bThey are good little things but they have limitations.

first off they work because lithium like nicad batteries can dump all their available power as fast and as hard as their internal construction will allow. while as little as 10AH doesnt sound like much but when you dump all of it in under 5 seconds its a lot, a lot of lot.

The wires are the size they are on these units as the first form of protection on the battery, as they heat up the resistance increases so the current draw stabilizes.

Generally these units dont carry the full current required to crank an engine they make up the difference between what the battery can provide and whats needed to keep the ECU/ignition working while the engine is cranking.


Be careful of the show pony tests, they're loaded, generally all the vehicles will have been stated and have warm engines and the batteries be low on charge but not dead flat. I've even seen one test done where the battery terminal protectant was only cleaned off of the places where the clamps were being attached and the multimeter reading was being read off of the still gooped posts. Mr demo man was less than happy when I caught him on slight of hand moving the probes to under the clamps to show just how much power the jump pack was pushing out. The other trick is to have a load on the battery when they do the initial reading.

I've no doubt whatsoever though that the good quality ones will start a warm modern diesel with no other power available. Heres why.

CCA.

CCA how many amps (average) your battery can push at -18degc for 30 seconds while maintaining a battery voltage of higher than 7.2V .

What if you don't need it for that long? lets say you need twice the CCA amp rating but for only 1/10 of the time to achieve a start? lets say at room temperature your battery can provide 10000A for 2 seconds but after 4 seconds to the full time its only pushing out 300Amps and when its cold those numbers halve. your jump pack might be lucky to get a 150CCA rating.
Go out and with the car unlocked and ready to start time how long it takes you to go from first pushing the key into the ignition and turning it to the start posiiton to having the engine running. If you have one of those fancy push button start jobbies count it from the time you get the proximity indication to the time it starts and then add a second (to allow for all the security stuff to work)

did anyone go past 5 seconds? did anyone have the starter crank for more than 2?

and heres the difference between your lead acid technology battery and those lithium ones. your lithium can dump every thing at once it will spit every erg its got in one go it will only pass the CCA test once before its flat. With a lead acid battery you cant so if you let the battery sit for a little while it will let you have another go at the CCA test.

but then none of that counts once the engine is running. because then all the works done and the alternator is doing its thing.

As for the running a 3 cyl fergi all day.. Not surprising really, they're a mechanical diesel, once its started you only need enough power to keep the fuel solenoid open, something like 150 mA If its the older version you dont even need that.



Id get one myself if I didn't have a rock solid dual battery system, a solar panel, enough cabling to remote power from the vehicle, a back up charging system, a set of jumper leads and an old school manual that I can push start in 5 degrees without a battery.

In the opposite way that Baz would be offended if you bought him a generator to use while camping I wouldn't be offended to receive a quality one of those jump packs as a gift.

I would also happily get one as a present as a battery tank/backup starter for someone who do extended time away from mains power but want or need (kids) to power up minor electrical gear (media players/small lights/radios) and wanted one (assuming they were on the gifting list in the first place)

But a big safety tip. Once the engine is started DO NOT leave the alligator clips attached in an attempt to fast charge the pack. Bad things happen. The same applies for the larger SLA packs but they generally just have their life shortened and dont emit kill you dead bad gasses or catch fire.

[Redback]

What can they be discharged down to safely?
Wondering how long a 50 A/hr version would run a fridge..
ie, normal practice is that there's about 50 A/hr of useful/safe capacity in a typical 100 A/hr lead acid battery before the battery doesnt like it.

The other thing I'm interested in is the charge rates that these things can accept, can they take higher rates than a lead acid battery?

I think I read in the specs of one of them that said they maintain 80% of their charge, if that's the case it may not run the fridge for as long.

Baz.

PS; thanks for all the great info Dave, I did know about not leaving them connected after starting the car:BigThumb:

[Eevo]

What can they be discharged down to safely?
Wondering how long a 50 A/hr version would run a fridge..
ie, normal practice is that there's about 50 A/hr of useful/safe capacity in a typical 100 A/hr lead acid battery before the battery doesnt like it.

The other thing I'm interested in is the charge rates that these things can accept, can they take higher rates than a lead acid battery?

from what ive read, you can take them down to 20%
and they can take a higher charge rate.

[Redback]

from what ive read, you can take them down to 20%
and they can take a higher charge rate.

Just realised what he meant:rolleyes: