Puma 2.2 110 must upgrades?

[1nando]

So I've had quiet a few issues with my 2013 110 2.2 (3 rear diffs, Centre diff shims, new clutch and now a new gearbox)
So a simple question, to make the puma a reliable vehicle what are the must do upgrades?
I'm not talking bull bar's, sliders, lights etc I'm talking things like Ashcroft output shaft upgrade, Ashcroft axles etc......what do you consider necessary?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

[Summiitt]

That's a terrible run with a vehicle.. I've had 3 Pumas, 200k between them and no driveline issues at all.. And they are work utes that are flogged hard from new.. Hope the gremlins are out of it for you..

[PAT303]

So I've had quiet a few issues with my 2013 110 2.2 (3 rear diffs, Centre diff shims, new clutch and now a new gearbox)
So a simple question, to make the puma a reliable vehicle what are the must do upgrades?
I'm not talking bull bar's, sliders, lights etc I'm talking things like Ashcroft output shaft upgrade, Ashcroft axles etc......what do you consider necessary?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

Find a better dealer,thats my upgrade. Pat

[AndyG]

So I've had quiet a few issues with my 2013 110 2.2 (3 rear diffs, Centre diff shims, new clutch and now a new gearbox)
So a simple question, to make the puma a reliable vehicle what are the must do upgrades?
I'm not talking bull bar's, sliders, lights etc I'm talking things like Ashcroft output shaft upgrade, Ashcroft axles etc......what do you consider necessary?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

I look with interest on this

[1nando]

Find a better dealer,thats my upgrade. Pat

To be honest I think my dealer has been very helpful. Every concern has been addressed and they are simply doing what has been instructed via the LR techs advice.

It's funny cause you read on this site about people's problems. Most are common and some are not. From my reading on this site rear 110 diffs, gearbox output shafts and shims seem quiet common. Don't know how much if not any blame can be placed upon the dealer. The dealer sells a vehicle built externally under none of their control. The vehicle is repaired under warranty via approval and advice of LR. .......

Poor TQM (total quality management) is not LR forte, this is well known among readers of this website. That's why I ask, what are the factory weak points that people belive need to addressed. Maybe some are lucky and they've had a pleasant experience with their landy....I'm just asking cause my experience has not been as pleasant. I love my landy, I do........but doubt is starting to creep in and my thoughts are becoming clouded, it seems that getting rid of it might be the only solution if I can't fix it.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

[frantic]

I don't have a puma. But from what I've read a tom woods DC propshaft is a good idea, some have gone as far as a Salisbury complete swap in the rear with Dana internal gear.
I guess it's up to you how far you want to go?
Standard suspension and tyres, lift and 255's, flares and 315's, locker rear and/ or front, extra fuel tanketc etc.??

[RVR110]

To be honest I think my dealer has been very helpful. Every concern has been addressed and they are simply doing what has been instructed via the LR techs advice.

It's funny cause you read on this site about people's problems. Most are common and some are not. From my reading on this site rear 110 diffs, gearbox output shafts and shims seem quiet common. Don't know how much if not any blame can be placed upon the dealer. The dealer sells a vehicle built externally under none of their control. The vehicle is repaired under warranty via approval and advice of LR. .......

Poor TQM (total quality management) is not LR forte, this is well known among readers of this website. That's why I ask, what are the factory weak points that people belive need to addressed. Maybe some are lucky and they've had a pleasant experience with their landy....I'm just asking cause my experience has not been as pleasant. I love my landy, I do........but doubt is starting to creep in and my thoughts are becoming clouded, it seems that getting rid of it might be the only solution if I can't fix it.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

How many Kms has your car done, how much of that has been heavy off-road use and how heavily modified is the drive train (engine right through to tyres)?

Based on the list of issues and the recurring diff issues, yours seems to be one of the more extreme cases, not the norm. If it were me I'd be getting a second opinion/engineering report. Perhaps the work being done is fixing the symptoms rather than the root cause(s). I certainly wouldn't be simply dismissing a history like that as just poor TQM.

[jimr1]

Hi , I hope you get your truck running reliable , and don't have any more problems . You would be starting to think once out of warranty them this is going to start costing heaps . I have a new 110 on order , I hope I don't have any of the problems your experiencing . good luck !!.. Jim ..

[DazzaTD5]

As I'd assume most Land Rover repairers would know, clutch replacement (a faulty ford thing), rebuilding the centre diff (excessive side gear shim wear), rear diff rebuilds, and rear axle replacement (excessive worn splines) is a pretty common "puma" thing. I prolly do more of the above work on puma Defenders than the previous TD5 model to the point I'm now having to keep parts in stock.

Clutch - This is a known fault and has plagued other vehicle models including the Ford Ranger, Mustang (from memory??) etc. The APT clutch kit seems to resolve this. As for the gearbox itself, I personally believe its a step forward in terms of reliability over the older R380.

Centre Diff - My own theory of this is the preload is not done correct from factory, there is a reason the two shims at each end of the centre diff assembly are called a "selective thrust". I suspect on build one size selective thrust is used, so some assemblies are going to be a bit tight, while others are going to have too little preload, thus causing excessive side gear movement and therefor wear. This wear is also compounded by drivers that dont use the centre diff lock while offroad and are simply relying on the traction control.

Axles - Although from that point Land Rover put in a axle seal, excessive outer spline wear became the norm, Ive had numerous new Defenders in with as little as 70K with terrible out spline wear, which makes one ponder the quality of the axles/drive hubs used. Upgrading to the HTE axle sets and front drive flanges solves this, even if you dont remove the axle seal. The outer spline is easy to lube by remove the screw on cap, packing grease in the cap and screwing it back on. This pushes grease into the splines and becomes a standard item to do at service intervals.

Rear Diff - 2002 onwards Defenders used the P38 diff, the failures seem higher, but once rebuilt if done correctly that really should be it. I fail to understand how a diff can be repaired/replaced three times??? Even under warranty, why would they not rebuild the diff (as its then going to be fixed once) nor can I see how that can be blamed on the manufacturer.

Other mechnical items to do:
*Change grease nipples on front prop shafts to a 90 deg one will actually allow a grease gun to be connected.
*Add a grease nipple to the clutch pedal pivot shaft.
*Underbody corrosion protection.

Again, personally I think the puma Defender is a good improvement over the previous model in terms of overall reliability.

Ofcourse once a Defender owner gets that bug there are heaps of cool mods to do.

Regards
Daz

[1nando]

How many Kms has your car done, how much of that has been heavy off-road use and how heavily modified is the drive train (engine right through to tyres)?

Based on the list of issues and the recurring diff issues, yours seems to be one of the more extreme cases, not the norm. If it were me I'd be getting a second opinion/engineering report. Perhaps the work being done is fixing the symptoms rather than the root cause(s). I certainly wouldn't be simply dismissing a history like that as just poor TQM.

29000 kms. Never tows, hardly any heavy off road use. I'm a professional driver so I'm pretty sure I can drive......I think I've just been unlucky .

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

[1nando]

As I'd assume most Land Rover repairers would know, clutch replacement (a faulty ford thing), rebuilding the centre diff (excessive side gear shim wear), rear diff rebuilds, and rear axle replacement (excessive worn splines) is a pretty common "puma" thing. I prolly do more of the above work on puma Defenders than the previous TD5 model to the point I'm now having to keep parts in stock.

Clutch - This is a known fault and has plagued other vehicle models including the Ford Ranger, Mustang (from memory??) etc. The APT clutch kit seems to resolve this. As for the gearbox itself, I personally believe its a step forward in terms of reliability over the older R380.

Centre Diff - My own theory of this is the preload is not done correct from factory, there is a reason the two shims at each end of the centre diff assembly are called a "selective thrust". I suspect on build one size selective thrust is used, so some assemblies are going to be a bit tight, while others are going to have too little preload, thus causing excessive side gear movement and therefor wear. This wear is also compounded by drivers that dont use the centre diff lock while offroad and are simply relying on the traction control.

Axles - Although from that point Land Rover put in a axle seal, excessive outer spline wear became the norm, Ive had numerous new Defenders in with as little as 70K with terrible out spline wear, which makes one ponder the quality of the axles/drive hubs used. Upgrading to the HTE axle sets and front drive flanges solves this, even if you dont remove the axle seal. The outer spline is easy to lube by remove the screw on cap, packing grease in the cap and screwing it back on. This pushes grease into the splines and becomes a standard item to do at service intervals.

Rear Diff - 2002 onwards Defenders used the P38 diff, the failures seem higher, but once rebuilt if done correctly that really should be it. I fail to understand how a diff can be repaired/replaced three times??? Even under warranty, why would they not rebuild the diff (as its then going to be fixed once) nor can I see how that can be blamed on the manufacturer.

Other mechnical items to do:
*Change grease nipples on front prop shafts to a 90 deg one will actually allow a grease gun to be connected.
*Add a grease nipple to the clutch pedal pivot shaft.
*Underbody corrosion protection.

Again, personally I think the puma Defender is a good improvement over the previous model in terms of overall reliability.

Ofcourse once a Defender owner gets that bug there are heaps of cool mods to do.

Regards
Daz

Thank you Daz. This is some of the best help I have had in one single post. I appreciate your time for writing such detailed information.


Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

[PAT303]

29000 kms. Never tows, hardly any heavy off road use. I'm a professional driver so I'm pretty sure I can drive......I think I've just been unlucky .

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

I don't think you've been unlucky,I think your dealer is just throwing parts at your vehicle in the vain hope it fix's it,you cannot have three faulty diffs.If you look at your vehicle,all the parts you have had replaced gives us a reason to believe they are all drive line clunks or backlash problems and the usual fix is to replace that pesky useless P38 diff,I've had that very same problem twice and I told my dealer straight out that the diff is not being replaced,the reason is because I can lock the handbrake,jack one wheel and get stuff all movement when rotating the lifted wheel.My first problem was caused by the axle drive flanges wearing,$70 later I had steel ones and problem solved,second time it started clunking on take off and then really bad when on/off the throttle,that was the adapter shaft failing.My vehicle has now got 110,000k's on it and to get it to clunk I have to dump the clutch,my Tdi has got 470,000k's on it and it doesn't clunk unless I dump the clutch,it's never had the center diff shimmed but it did wear out the axle flanges.The clutch,axle flanges and adapter shaft are all known fault points and all cause a cranky drive line,the A frame joint is another,you don't have enough miles for that but it gives the impression of a sloppy P38 diff,these vehicles have been going for 8 years now,if the gearbox's had a fault like spline wear,bearing faults etc they would have shown up by now but they haven't,I would not look at the gearbox-T/C for the problem.Just lastly a bloke I shoot rifles with works for WA diff centre,he works on lots of LR's,two last week and he told me on saturday that it's worn bearings that causes most LR diff's to be replaced,with rebuilt originals or Ashcrofts if you want more strength. Pat

[newhue]

1nando, I have taken a break from this forum for 12 months and to come back and read your post nothing has changed. Please don't loose faith in the vehicle, as it seems since Tdci was released in 07, most of what was the problem then, is still now. Lets face it, if LR do not change the body or front diffs in 25 years, transfer boxes or rear diffs in 15 or so, they aren't going to change manufacturing contracts or failures to quick. I'd just play the game (look concerned but really who gives toss as it's under warranty) until its out of warranty, then shazam! ithe ol Defender becomes reliable.

I've had all sorts of things happen to my 2010. Odd things like a new transfer box because my clutch was rattly. The car ran fine, it had a slight clutch noise so I asked a question about it, and that was the result. That was on the second clutch. Still it was no cost to me and the cars behaves now with 125k as it did then with 60k on it.

I've always thought after the fact, if I just sent my P38 to a diff shop to be re shimmed or adjusted it would have ridded all the bangs I had in the drive line. After repeated "na that's normal" from the dealer I ended up putting a Salisbury in which solved all the bangs and clunks instead. LR would not even have the P38 checked, and I was going on a long remote trip and didn't want a failure, so I had to do something. I don' t believe for one second those bangs are normal, and mine is living proof. No one would make a car and honestly think that is acceptable for a brand new vehicle. Well LR does it seems. Or perhaps to scabby to stop getting the drive great assembles where ever they do. Poland? Ucrain?

There are blokes on here who have used lockers on standard axels, and used them hard and regularly. 2 to 3 years before the flanges conked out. But if the flanges are well greased, something LR don't seem overly astute to, they will last for some time in open diffs with normal use IMO.

To be honest just let the warranty period do it's thing. Maintain a good relationship with the dealer and marvell at how much new stuff you get. Mine got re bushed at the end because I asked for them to have a look. Maybe new axels and flanges could be order if you ask.

[berniebgf]

1Nando,

There is some good information on the following video that would be worth reviewing, I would think most of the basic content would be valid across various models. Watch the end for tips on different issues and causes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHCMZq-XYqo

Plenty of other content on this Guys Channel

best regards

Bernie

[DazzaTD5]

IMHO, I think a lot of puma issues are compounded by the dealers (or the dealer to Jaguar Land Rover relationship??), owners taking their new Defender back to the dealers countless times to repair the same fault again again and again.

I'm sure like plenty of other indy Land Rover repairers, it really didnt take me too long to work out "new" issues with the Defender puma when they first started to come in with problems. Most were nothing more than a progression from repairs already learnt over the years with previous Defender, Discovery models. Some like the clutch rattle (gets thrown around as "gearbox rattle on idle") arent a new thing from a repairers point of view, but it wasnt a common thing on Defenders (some may remember 300tdi would do it now and then).

Don't know about other indys, but I'm not actually a rocket scientist and working on Land Rovers isnt rocket science (but does require some passion I guess (reads, Im a nut job?)) So how the hell do dealers seem to mis-diagnose or simply arent repairing the fault, how could they possibly not have learnt the faults of a model???

For the ones that have had "endless" faults with their Defender puma, my guess would be they are over the run around, back and forth, issues not resolved more than the actual vehicle fault itself.

This really isnt a "promo" for indy Land Rover repairers, its just how I see it (and quite happy if a mod feels the need to delete this post).

On topic to the thread though..
Axles - If your Defender puma is shiny new, get the drive flanges (yes leave the original axles) changed out to the HTE ones (standard width splines), this as already mentioned will allow the greasing of the outer splines as a normal service item and should in theory prevent early wear.

Regards
Daz

[PAT303]

Daz,steady up mate,writing replies about the TDCi defender based on first hand knowledge and facts is not allowed here or you'll be forever labelled a one eye blinkered fanboy like me,or did you not know that?. Pat

[AndyG]

[QUOTE=DazzaTD5;2339883

On topic to the thread though..
Axles - If your Defender puma is shiny new, get the drive flanges (yes leave the original axles) changed out to the HTE ones (standard width splines), this as already mentioned will allow the greasing of the outer splines as a normal service item and should in theory prevent early wear.

Regards
Daz[/QUOTE]

Could someone expand on this, whats HTE and if a non dealer changes the flanges more warranty hassles?

[1nando]

I like AndyG would love if someone could please explain this axle stuff in a little more detail please......

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

[PAT303]

Take a wheel off and you will see the cast axle drive flange bolted to the outside of the hub,take the rubber cap off with a screwdriver and you will see the end of the axle poking out,with the handbrake locked turn the wheel left/right and watch for movement between the axle and flange,there will be and that movement causes a clunk.Change the cast ones for aftermarket steel ones. Pat

[PAT303]

Could someone expand on this, whats HTE and if a non dealer changes the flanges more warranty hassles?

Doesn't affect warranty and fix's an annoying problem.Buy them from the UK,they are cheap. Pat

[DazzaTD5]

Could someone expand on this, whats HTE and if a non dealer changes the flanges more warranty hassles?

Apologies......I sometimes forget not all Land Rover owners are first gen owners or arent know-it-alls (just kidding there folks)

HTE (High Tough Engineering) is a brand name of after market "heavy duty" axles and drive flanges.

As already answered, remove a wheel and the centre hub you will see a drive flange with 5 retaining bolts and a centre rubber dust cap. Removing the dust cap you will see the end of a splined axle with a retaining cir-clip. Its these outer splines that run dry and are hard to lube correctly. Further in about 200mm (where you cant see) is a inner axle seal that prevents diff oil from running out to the axle splines (which would of course then lube the outer splines) Land Rover (I guess) in there great wisdom thought it better to prevent "oil leaks" from the dust cap rather than lubing the splines.

Early Defenders didnt have the axle seal and didnt suffer this outer spline wear. To remove the seal requires the complete hub assembly to be dismantled. Using the HTE (or other after market) drive flange ends allows the outer splines to be lubed with grease (as mentioned in previous posts).

I'd only recommend using either the HTE or the ones from Ashcroft Transmissions. I believe there are some cheap rubbish knock offs available.

here is a link to my website, scroll down down down until you get to the pic of the HTE axle sets and all should become clear.
Land Rover TD5 (http://www.aztech4x4.com.au/land_rover_td5_15.html)

Regards
Daz

[Dopey]

If buying new gaskets for the drive flanges,
Take the flanges with you to make sure that the gaskets actually fit on the flanges....
A lot of the gaskets are to small.
Also the gaskets come in different thicknesses.

Regards,
Mike.

[AndyG]

Is it possible, or worthwhile shoving some grease in with the standard axle, drive flange as an interim measure. And does this apply to both ends or just the rear?

Doh, front, CVs different geometry, different problems, different solutions

Finally, which grease, I'm thinking high temp bearing type?

[ProjectDirector]

IMHO, I think a lot of puma issues are compounded by the dealers (or the dealer to Jaguar Land Rover relationship??), owners taking their new Defender back to the dealers countless times to repair the same fault again again and again.



I'm sure like plenty of other indy Land Rover repairers, it really didnt take me too long to work out "new" issues with the Defender puma when they first started to come in with problems. Most were nothing more than a progression from repairs already learnt over the years with previous Defender, Discovery models. Some like the clutch rattle (gets thrown around as "gearbox rattle on idle") arent a new thing from a repairers point of view, but it wasnt a common thing on Defenders (some may remember 300tdi would do it now and then).



Don't know about other indys, but I'm not actually a rocket scientist and working on Land Rovers isnt rocket science (but does require some passion I guess (reads, Im a nut job?)) So how the hell do dealers seem to mis-diagnose or simply arent repairing the fault, how could they possibly not have learnt the faults of a model???



For the ones that have had "endless" faults with their Defender puma, my guess would be they are over the run around, back and forth, issues not resolved more than the actual vehicle fault itself.



This really isnt a "promo" for indy Land Rover repairers, its just how I see it (and quite happy if a mod feels the need to delete this post).



On topic to the thread though..

Axles - If your Defender puma is shiny new, get the drive flanges (yes leave the original axles) changed out to the HTE ones (standard width splines), this as already mentioned will allow the greasing of the outer splines as a normal service item and should in theory prevent early wear.



Regards

Daz


Interesting reading and getting a bit paranoid now.
My 2013 110 is due for second service in May and will probably point out a couple annoying noises I hear.
One is clutch pedal squeak which I greased but no change.
The other is noise when stationary, I hear a small rattle coming from gearbox area and disappears when I press the clutch or rev the engine. This noise is more pronounced from outside the cabin.

Let's hope they will sort it.

[PAT303]

No need to be paranoid,a few issue's that need sorting is all,no different to timing belts,injector looms,P gaskets or plastic head dowels,each model brings it's own new supprises. Pat

[DazzaTD5]

Is it possible, or worthwhile shoving some grease in with the standard axle, drive flange as an interim measure. And does this apply to both ends or just the rear?

Doh, front, CVs different geometry, different problems, different solutions

Finally, which grease, I'm thinking high temp bearing type?

The difficulty is getting the grease into the outer splines (yes its both front & rear, the outer spline setup is the same, as in they go dry) on a standard setup as it only has a rubber dust boot. The after market axles (or rather the drive flanges) such as the HTE brand have a outer "dust" cap that is metal and screws onto the threaded drive flange end. This allows the inside of the cap to have some grease put in it, then when its screwed on the grease is forced down the splines, its very easy and as already mentioned becomes a standard service item to do.

Oh and another note, if just replacing the drive flange ends make sure you buy the standard length splined ones, they are the one marked WITHOUT the "X"

They arent expensive, $100 a set? dunno or each, still cheaper than doing the whole lot. I source most of my parts from Rovercraft.

Regards
Daz

[DiscoMick]

Has anyone mentioned extended front seat runners? They made a huge difference to mine, with my long legs. Weren't expensive either from Mulgo. Also recommend the Mulgo brackets to allow the rear side doors to open to 90 degrees - easy to fit and really open up the door spaces. I would also recommend a rear wheel carrier (mine is Mantec to open with the door) and the doorstay to hold the heavy rear door open, so it doesn't slam shut.
These items just make the vehicle so much more usable I reckon they should be standard equipment from the factory.
I also plan to order a kit of stainless steel bolts to replace the galvanized ones on the door hinges, which rust.

[AndyG]

Getting Silicone I/C hoses to avoid hose failure. I don't know what the procedure is for out of warranty vehicles is to get the appropriate combination of brackets, cable ties and chewing gum to make this a permanent fix.

You would hope the fix was available for all vehicles with this design fault.

[MrLandy]

Koni Raid shock absorbers, especially if you do long km's on dirt, first priority.

[Pickles2]

Has anyone mentioned extended front seat runners? They made a huge difference to mine, with my long legs. Weren't expensive either from Mulgo. Also recommend the Mulgo brackets to allow the rear side doors to open to 90 degrees - easy to fit and really open up the door spaces. I would also recommend a rear wheel carrier (mine is Mantec to open with the door) and the doorstay to hold the heavy rear door open, so it doesn't slam shut.
These items just make the vehicle so much more usable I reckon they should be standard equipment from the factory.
I also plan to order a kit of stainless steel bolts to replace the galvanized ones on the door hinges, which rust.
Disco, I've heard & read about the Mantec Rear Wheel Carrier. Seems to be a good product.
I've also heard & read about difficulties fitting to various 90s & 110s with alignment of existing bolt holes in rear cross member etc, & whether it'll fit with bumperettes etc?
What has been your experience?
Pickles.

[AndyG]

And a Traxide wiring kit to resolve a few LR quirks.

[ralph_ef9]

hi everyone, im new here still waiting on my MY15 90 DEFENDER to arrive, after all the reading i feel like WOW, and this is my first DEFENDER.:(

[1nando]

hi everyone, im new here still waiting on my MY15 90 DEFENDER to arrive, after all the reading i feel like WOW, and this is my first DEFENDER.:(

Ralph_ef9, don't be discouraged or disheartened. There are many, many people on here that have had trouble free motoring. Even though I've had all these issues (hopefully sorted) I love my car. It is hard to explain but owning a defender is a unique experience. Congrats on your purchase ☺

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

[ralph_ef9]

Ralph_ef9, don't be discouraged or disheartened. There are many, many people on here that have had trouble free motoring. Even though I've had all these issues (hopefully sorted) I love my car. It is hard to explain but owning a defender is a unique experience. Congrats on your purchase ☺

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

Hey man thx! I'm not expecting the defender reliable like a BMW or Merc, but please just not too much break down parts.

Anyone recommend factory warranty? Extend warranty?
My MY15 defender 90 won't be here till end of May, I'm doing all the research here want to make the car reliable as possible. :)

[PAT303]

The axle flanges cost less than one Land Cruiser shock,will leave the factory with the Adapter shaft packed with grease and mine,as well as many others lived for years where people went for their ''big trip'',to put things into perspective. Pat

[AndyG]

And it would seem that after 60 years of practice the MY15 Defender has very few glitches, and people are getting a good run out of them.

And a common thread is maintain them properly, as they tend to get a harder life than most vehicles.

[DiscoMick]

Disco, I've heard & read about the Mantec Rear Wheel Carrier. Seems to be a good product.
I've also heard & read about difficulties fitting to various 90s & 110s with alignment of existing bolt holes in rear cross member etc, & whether it'll fit with bumperettes etc?
What has been your experience?
Pickles.


We found the Mantec carrier pretty easy to fit. The bottom arm bracket went straight into existing holes. On the top bracket we had to drill out one rivet, remove the interior trim and then push the new bolt through and line it up on the steel frame. Then we measured and drilled the second hole in the body and bolted it on. The backing plate with the retracting arm simply bolted on to the door to replace the original plate. The only mistake we made was to do the bolts on the arm brackets up too tight and then had to loosen them a bit. We also fitted a door opening support down the bottom.
Suddenly, the rattling from the door stopped. Its great being able to open the wheel carrier and door in one action and the door support holds it open.
We didn't fit bumperettes so I can't comment on them except to say that, looking at the pictures, I can't see how the door carrier would affect them at all.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[loneranger]

We found the Mantec carrier pretty easy to fit. The bottom arm bracket went straight into existing holes. On the top bracket we had to drill out one rivet, remove the interior trim and then push the new bolt through and line it up on the steel frame. Then we measured and drilled the second hole in the body and bolted it on. The backing plate with the retracting arm simply bolted on to the door to replace the original plate. The only mistake we made was to do the bolts on the arm brackets up too tight and then had to loosen them a bit. We also fitted a door opening support down the bottom.
Suddenly, the rattling from the door stopped. Its great being able to open the wheel carrier and door in one action and the door support holds it open.
We didn't fit bumperettes so I can't comment on them except to say that, looking at the pictures, I can't see how the door carrier would affect them at all.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

Fitting a Rijidij rear wheel carrier got rid of the annoying squeak we couldn't find at the back of the car.

[DiscoMick]

Fitting a Rijidij rear wheel carrier got rid of the annoying squeak we couldn't find at the back of the car.

Yeah, that back door shouldn't be asked to carry the weight of the spare over corrugations. Our door is slightly warped as a result.

Gotta say though, the extended seat runners are the single most important thing I've done to the Defender. Even with the seat right back on the original runners my knees were almost into the dashboard. Now I can stretch out and relax.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[DazzaTD5]

Clutch - This is a known fault and has plagued other vehicle models including the Ford Ranger, Mustang (from memory??) etc. The APT clutch kit seems to resolve this



Re: clutch kit: I put some of you on a bum steer there, the brand is "AP" as in "AP Driveline" (which I believe is now AP Lockheed).

Apologies to all..
Regards
Daz

[DiscoMick]

The latest LR Owner International has an interesting article about 40 essential mods to a Defender. Most of them are quite cheap. Its given me a few ideas...
Interestingly, they include HD axles and flanges. They also recommend better shocks, teamed with the standard springs.

[Surrufus]

And a Traxide wiring kit to resolve a few LR quirks.

Do you mean a headlight wiring kit Andy?


The latest LR Owner International has an interesting article about 40 essential mods to a Defender. Most of them are quite cheap. Its given me a few ideas...
Interestingly, they include HD axles and flanges. They also recommend better shocks, teamed with the standard springs.

Would most newsagents have this? Or is it a special order kind of thing?

[DiscoMick]

Do you mean a headlight wiring kit Andy?



Would most newsagents have this? Or is it a special order kind of thing?

I bought mine in a newsagent on Tuesday. You can subscribe for print, digital or both. Just search their website.

[AndyG]

[QUOTE=Surrufus;2358180]Do you mean a headlight wiring kit Andy?


Yes, apparently Power goes via the switch mechanism rather than a relay

[robh]

One thing not mentioned so far, lock wheel nuts, get rid of them and replace with standard ones. Do it now.

I've read several threads on this forum relating to the lousy quality of the lock nut adapter and thought "they're not that bad". I was wrong, they are that bad. I attempted my second wheel rotation today only to find the "key" (adapter) deformed and cracked on the first wheel. As per Murphy's rule, I got the spare off and 3 of the wheels but the last one was too tight to budge. Luckily with vise grips and a bit of pipe used as an extension, I was able to loosen it but it took hours. Standard wheel nuts immediately ordered, should be here early next week.

Rob

[Surrufus]

After market wheel nuts and lock nuts worth doing?

[RVR110]

After market wheel nuts and lock nuts worth doing?
Not necessary...just replace the lock nuts with genuine standard nuts.

[PAT303]

Maybe if you don't over tighten the nuts and anti seize them the problem won't happen?. Pat

[inken_dave]

Interesting reading and getting a bit paranoid now.
My 2013 110 is due for second service in May and will probably point out a couple annoying noises I hear.
One is clutch pedal squeak which I greased but no change.
The other is noise when stationary, I hear a small rattle coming from gearbox area and disappears when I press the clutch or rev the engine. This noise is more pronounced from outside the cabin.

Let's hope they will sort it.

What was the outcome of the noise in or around gearbox when clutch pedal was out and in neutral?

[ProjectDirector]

What was the outcome of the noise in or around gearbox when clutch pedal was out and in neutral?


Thanks for reminding me. The clutch rattle was due to known issue of loose clutch plate springs, so they replaced it with new clutch kit that fixes this issue. Big job for them I suppose but they were really good about it and no questions asked.

The clutch pedal squeaky noise was from the clutch box as I suspected so they lubricated the box. Noise is gone for now, most likely to come back though.
There is a fix shown somewhere on this forum where the bolt on the side of the clutch box is replaced by a grease nipple.

For some unexplained reason though the 40k service was free of charge, that was a pleasant surprise, that's $900 in my pocket.

I have to say this dealer has been great to me so far.

[DazzaTD5]

Thanks for reminding me. The clutch rattle was due to known issue of loose clutch plate springs, so they replaced it with new clutch kit that fixes this issue. Big job for them I suppose but they were really good about it and no questions asked.

The clutch pedal squeaky noise was from the clutch box as I suspected so they lubricated the box. Noise is gone for now, most likely to come back though.
There is a fix shown somewhere on this forum where the bolt on the side of the clutch box is replaced by a grease nipple.

For some unexplained reason though the 40k service was free of charge, that was a pleasant surprise, that's $900 in my pocket.

I have to say this dealer has been great to me so far.

Yes the "Puma gearbox rattle in neutral" (faulty clutch) is a well known issue and also plagued the early Ford Ranger, Ford Mustang (in the US) and I'm sure if searched the Ford Transit also suffered this (as they all share the same gearbox/clutch).

Odd that a 2013 Defender was suffering this as I'd heard Land Rover had gone to the same branded AP clutch that was being used as a replacement. I suppose this means the clutch replacement jobs will continue to roll it. Atleast with a Defender puma clutch replacement is the easiest that its ever been in any Land Rover bar none!!

While I generally consider it bad form to say anything negative about another repairer..... had a customers brand new Defender 2.2 in for fitting accessories, just had its first service at "somewhere" (new vehicle, your guess). Air filter could not have even been looked at, let alone changed, absolutely black. "inspect air filter and replace as necessary" or the what 40K fuel filter change spec... what a joke or would be if people werent paying for such a thing. hope most get a better job for a $900 service (it takes very little time to have a look at the air filter to see if its been changed or needs changing).

And yes just to clarify so people dont think I'm being mis-leading, I am a indy Land Rover repairer so my opinions shouldn't be considered unbiased or neutral.

Regards
Daz

[PAT303]

Daz,can you PM me your contact details,my Tdi is in need of some long overdue luving. Pat

[specwarop]

Best upgrade is to sell it and buy a Land Cruiser.

[1nando]

Best upgrade is to sell it and buy a Land Cruiser.

What they don't have their problems? :rolleyes:

I almost sold my defender to buy a Cruiser in the midst of all the issues i was having, until I started to do a bit of research.
I have been unlucky and needed a few things replaced but I can honestly say that I'm confident my issues are now sorted. The vehicle drives better than when I first bought it.
I have no regrets and couldn't be happier, I've never had a vehicle put a smile on my face the way my land rover does......I love it, but you land cruiser owners just don't get that.
Leaf sprung rear end, massive lazy engine that chews oil and eats fuel, wheel track from front to back 100mm out, front diff prone to bending like soft cheese, front axle is easily overloaded (people in the mines have been complaining about weak front axles), fuel pumps etc...........I could keep going.

The land cruiser is a excellent vehicle, no doubt, but I can't stand that every land cruiser owner thinks that they somehow own Gods chariot. Forums are a place where one can get advice and ask for help, as a result a lot of what is available to read is negative, no different to a Toyota land cruiser forum.

I started this post as to rectify and weak points that my defender has, every vehicle has weak points. If you don't have anything to contribute to the conversation then please refrain from commenting.




Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

[MLD]

Would most newsagents have this? Or is it a special order kind of thing?

Isubscribe.com.au OR LRO.com for a subscription. A little gift comes from the postal gods each month for about $100 a year. If you have an interest in older or unique LR's it's a great publication. Recently there was a cover of a 110 with a 5.9ltr cummins turbo diesel on 37's. Land cruiser owners eat your heart out, the cummins will climb a tree off torque on idle. :D MLD

[noyakfat]

Best upgrade is to sell it and buy a Land Cruiser.

I have owned two land cruisers in my life. An 80-series wagon and a 75-series cab-chassis. Both had the 1HZ engine.

I owned the cab-chassis for a few years and never had a single issue with it. Never a breakdown nor any other reliability problem (and I took it all over the place with lots of low range driving, and quite extensive touring through 3 states). I loved that vehicle. I also stuck to a strict service regime and it never missed a beat.

However, vehicles (like people) are not all the same, despite mass production techniques. Some are better than others, even within the same make and model run. As mentioned already, quick checks of the various forum sites for other makes will certainly show any number of problems (some common, some unusual).

I bought my 110 Puma new (delivered April 2014). I drive it to work every day, and out to play in the Brindabella ranges as much as I can. I recently completed a driving trip back home to Qld, via western NSW, and back to the ACT via the coast. I did not have a single issue with the vehicle.

To date, I've done just over 21,000 km and have not had one single problem or reliability issue. As with many other Defender owners, I get a huge smile every time I drive it, and find myself taking the long way home more often than the short-cuts :)

Each to their own, regarding vehicle preferences, but reality and history shows every vehicle can potentially have problems.

Enjoy the drive :)

[LoveB]

I'm at 70,000KM now.

Apart from recalls and me wanting to change the jackshaft

I've not had a single issue with it

[DiscoMick]

Best upgrade is to sell it and buy a Land Cruiser.

On Saturday my bog standard Defender 110 on original tyres went everywhere at Emu Creek 4WD Park near Tabulum that my BIL's 80 series, with a lift, big mud tyres and a rear locker, managed - except for one spot where the only issue was clearance, since the 110 is not lifted like his 80. I could have gotten up that climb if I had been prepared to scrape the fuel tank.
He commented that he was having to use the 80s power (recently retuned) and charge obstacles which my 110 just idled over. My low-first was much lower than his low first. In fact, most of the time I used second or even third low, saving first-low for the steepest descents and ascents, mostly just to protect the tyres from big bangs and to not have to use the brakes while descending. Even without a lift, my 110 only scraped once on the 110 litre aftermarket fuel tank.
Plus, mine only uses 10 l/100kms while his 80, since the retune, is guzzling 17-18 l/100km.
Pretty clear choice, I reckon.

[PAT303]

Best upgrade is to sell it and buy a Land Cruiser.

Did you get the responses you were looking for?. :p Pat

[Surrufus]

What about re-tune/flash tune and egr removal?

[DazzaTD5]

Best upgrade is to sell it and buy a Land Cruiser.

Could you believe a quote like that on a Land Rover forum in especially the Defender section would be anything but trolling???

Although I generally don't buy into "this brand over that brand" as there is often blind biased opinions on both sides....

IMHO.... As someone that used to work on the 76 series Land Cruiser (and Hilux) on mine sites, apart from the incredibly torquey V8 diesel the rest of it is rubbish and is prone to as many failures as any brand, the hilux same deal, great engine, rest of it is rubbish. And the purchase price of a 76 series wagon??? good grief!

Both still have leaf sprung rear suspension, as a fair comparison... doesnt a horse and cart use leaf springs?? :p

Regards
Daz

[DiscoMick]

Can't remember if I've mentioned it in this thread before, but I think the best single upgrade to a Defender is the extended front seat rails, so the seats can be pushed back to get more comfortable. Cheap, easy to fit and worth every dollar. Should be standard.

[Pickles2]

Can't remember if I've mentioned it in this thread before, but I think the best single upgrade to a Defender is the extended front seat rails, so the seats can be pushed back to get more comfortable. Cheap, easy to fit and worth every dollar. Should be standard.
Disco, I've heard glowing reports of them, but I've never seen 'em.
I've also heard that whilst you certainly do get more leg room, the height of the seat is increased, which could be a bit of a worry for taller drivers?
Pickles.

[TheYeti]

Best upgrade is to sell it and buy a Land Cruiser.

Couldn't resist, 80 series with 35 muds using the factory LR (with original continental tyres) as an anchor after failing to follow the same line as the mighty defender.
93956
Sorry to hijack enjoying the read.

Ben

[Landi]

Priorities for me were recovery points (front and rear), underbody protection, and cargo barrier. APT killed a couple of birds with one stone with the steering guard; I have nugget to thank for rear recovery; and autosafe do a great barrier that fits perfectly.

[kogvos]

Disco, I've heard glowing reports of them, but I've never seen 'em.
I've also heard that whilst you certainly do get more leg room, the height of the seat is increased, which could be a bit of a worry for taller drivers?
Pickles.
Absolutely something to consider. I'm 2 metres tall and the extended seat rails do put my head into a blind area so I have to do some bending around to see everything.

There is a clear trade-off that you have to weigh up. It's worth trying before buying if you're an abnormally tall freak like me. I'm happy for anyone to check out mine if you're around Sydney.

[rick130]

Can't remember if I've mentioned it in this thread before, but I think the best single upgrade to a Defender is the extended front seat rails, so the seats can be pushed back to get more comfortable. Cheap, easy to fit and worth every dollar. Should be standard.


Disco, I've heard glowing reports of them, but I've never seen 'em.
I've also heard that whilst you certainly do get more leg room, the height of the seat is increased, which could be a bit of a worry for taller drivers?
Pickles.

All that needs to be done is four spacers plus longer bolts under the existing base, legalities aside....:angel:

It gives you much more leg room for those of us over 6' and is well worth it, but I see it could be an issue if your height is in your torso and not your legs.
I'm all legs and vision out to the side is a little restricted, but to the front is fine.

[Pickles2]

I'm just on 6', I have the seat right back, and TBH, after 20K+, it's not a real worry for me, but a bit of extra length in my legs & it would be.
My Son In Law has a big Jeep Wagoneer, about an '88 model I think, 360V8 etc, but He just LOVES Gracie, and the whole Defender "thing", but unfortunately, being 6'8" He simply cannot get himself into either of the front seats,...impossible for him to get into the cabin area!!
Pickles.

[rick130]

Pickles, I'm a smidge under. 6'2", but have a 37" inseam.
I can see 6'8" being an issue !

[PAT303]

I'm just on 6', I have the seat right back, and TBH, after 20K+, it's not a real worry for me, but a bit of extra length in my legs & it would be.
My Son In Law has a big Jeep Wagoneer, about an '88 model I think, 360V8 etc, but He just LOVES Gracie, and the whole Defender "thing", but unfortunately, being 6'8" He simply cannot get himself into either of the front seats,...impossible for him to get into the cabin area!!
Pickles.
Bloody hell Pickles,6'8'':o,did you own a chook farm or something:D.Give Mulgo(Daniel) a call,his seat rails are the best IMHO,the other types lift the seat as well as extend and I found them annoying. Pat

[cccp53]

Hello Giants , I have the rails 3cm up and up to 5 cm back ,and it works the best for me ( I am 5'9")

[PAT303]

Sexiest deefer steering wheel I've ever seen. Pat

[stewie110]

IMHO, I think a lot of puma issues are compounded by the dealers (or the dealer to Jaguar Land Rover relationship??), owners taking their new Defender back to the dealers countless times to repair the same fault again again and again.

I'm sure like plenty of other indy Land Rover repairers, it really didnt take me too long to work out "new" issues with the Defender puma when they first started to come in with problems. Most were nothing more than a progression from repairs already learnt over the years with previous Defender, Discovery models. Some like the clutch rattle (gets thrown around as "gearbox rattle on idle") arent a new thing from a repairers point of view, but it wasnt a common thing on Defenders (some may remember 300tdi would do it now and then).

Don't know about other indys, but I'm not actually a rocket scientist and working on Land Rovers isnt rocket science (but does require some passion I guess (reads, Im a nut job?)) So how the hell do dealers seem to mis-diagnose or simply arent repairing the fault, how could they possibly not have learnt the faults of a model???

For the ones that have had "endless" faults with their Defender puma, my guess would be they are over the run around, back and forth, issues not resolved more than the actual vehicle fault itself.

This really isnt a "promo" for indy Land Rover repairers, its just how I see it (and quite happy if a mod feels the need to delete this post).

On topic to the thread though..
Axles - If your Defender puma is shiny new, get the drive flanges (yes leave the original axles) changed out to the HTE ones (standard width splines), this as already mentioned will allow the greasing of the outer splines as a normal service item and should in theory prevent early wear.

Regards
Daz

Hi Daz,

This is the first time that I have read the term "HTE" I am interested to know what that actually means.

[1nando]

Hi Daz,

This is the first time that I have read the term "HTE" I am interested to know what that actually means.

Hy tough engineering......don't worry, I found out on this thread too:)

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

[DiscoMick]

All that needs to be done is four spacers plus longer bolts under the existing base, legalities aside....:angel:

It gives you much more leg room for those of us over 6' and is well worth it, but I see it could be an issue if your height is in your torso and not your legs.
I'm all legs and vision out to the side is a little restricted, but to the front is fine.

My rails are the ones through Mulgo which are longer, but do not lift the seat any higher. I'm tall with long legs and arms and didn't want height, but I did want more length to get the legs in more easily.
Now I'm comfortable without actually having the seat all the way back, so it could go even further. I also find my elbow no longer rubs on the door handle, as it did at the standard position, so it's all good.


I also fitted Mulgo's extenders for the rear side door openings so the doors open to 90 degrees, giving much easier access. Only cost a few bucks, but make a lot of difference when people or items are being loaded or unloaded. For example, its now much easier to lift our 40 litre Engel fridge into the rear side door opening than it was before, because the door is now held fully open.


Another good thing I fitted was a stay to hold the back door open. This has proven very beneficial now we have rear drawers fitted, since the door is held open and then the drawer slides out without hitting the inside lining on the door. This was a Mantec door stay.


Another must we have fitted is the Mantec rear wheel carrier which opens with the rear door in one movement. When we got the 110 the wheel was still on the rear door, which was rattling and had begun to deform because of the weight. With the wheel carrier holding the wheel, the door doesn't rattle at all, even on the worst corrugations, and seals much better. Worth every dollar, I reckon.


These are all simple things, but so good that I reckon they should be standard.

[Tombie]

Mick they have to lift the height - even marginally...

As that is how they (a) Fit the extra set of bolts (b) clear the lip at the back of the seat box...

[DiscoMick]

Mick they have to lift the height - even marginally...

As that is how they (a) Fit the extra set of bolts (b) clear the lip at the back of the seat box...

I'll have to check, but I think mine has a bit of an upkick in it at the back. So minor its not noticeable.


http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Mulgo+seat+rail+extenders&qpvt=Mulgo+seat+rail+extenders&qpvt=Mulgo+seat+rail+extenders&FORM=IGRE

[cuppabillytea]

Here's one little Mod that for me was essential. I found that hard right hand bends and leans to the left, greater than about 15 degrees, had me wanting more support for my left arm. The B pillar does a great job when you're going the other way. So I came up with this mod and had my Brother Bob make it for me. It's tailored to fit me so it could never be a store bought option. The cutaway is to allow unimpeded gear lever movement. The lower passenger side is for my shorter Missus and the rise in-between prevents the passenger/navigator from sliding into the driver when it's a rougher ride.

Sorry about the mess in my car. It's the traveling with Kids thing.

[Tombie]

Here's one little Mod that for me was essential. I found that hard right hand bends and leans to the left, greater than about 15 degrees, had me wanting more support for my left arm. The B pillar does a great job when you're going the other way. So I came up with this mod and had my Brother Bob make it for me. It's tailored to fit me so it could never be a store bought option. The cutaway is to allow unimpeded gear lever movement. The lower passenger side is for my shorter Missus and the rise in-between prevents the passenger/navigator from sliding into the driver when it's a rougher ride.

Sorry about the mess in my car. It's the traveling with Kids thing.

Very cool!!!!

An ExBox fitment achieves a similar result :cool:

[Landi]

Just installed some HITUFF HD drive flanges all round, and Nugget's sealed air system on the Land Rover RAI. I can't believe what a difference they've both made. I'd say most backlash is gone. Much, MUCH better drivability at low speeds in traffic. I really think the HD flanges are the way to go. Mine's 2015 110 with 20k on the clock. The axles still seemed fine. Nugget's kit is great as well: very defined intake noise now which sounds great, and it may just be me but it also seems to have slightly improved throttle response. Could be wrong though, or it could just be how smooth everything is now with the HD flanges. Anyway, 2 highly recommended pieces of kit!

[PAT303]

We have come a long way from blaming the poor old P38 for all our ill's haven't we. :). Pat

[DiscoMick]

I'll have to check, but I think mine has a bit of an upkick in it at the back. So minor its not noticeable.


Mulgo seat rail extenders - Bing images (http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Mulgo+seat+rail+extenders&qpvt=Mulgo+seat+rail+extenders&qpvt=Mulgo+seat+rail+extenders&FORM=IGRE)

Yep, an upkick at the back there is.

[AndyG]

Back to the Op original theme, to address excess heat in the cabin, hot hand brake get some exhaust wrap

[mike_beecham]

Hi All
I am looking at the HD Flanges. The Ashcroft ones are half the price of the HTE? I would expect the Ashcroft version to be of an excellent quality.

Has anyone purchased them from the UK - what was the freight cost?

Thanks

[PAT303]

They are cheaper from the UK,just like all LR parts. Pat