Braking problems

[John1991]

Hey guys got a 54 series 1 with a fairly worked 202 having trouble with brakes just wondering what and how people have upgraded their braking system thinking of maybe using a Suzuki or hilux booster and master cylinder any suggestions and help will be greatly appreciated

[wrighty]

The easiest thing to do is to fit LWB brakes with front brakes from a 6 cylinder or stage 1 which have wider front shoes. All should bolt on.

[John1991]

I have a set of diffs I want to put under it they are series 2 I believe, fully floating they have wider drums and shoes but I am more interested in solving the problem of bleeding the brakes having trouble at the moment where I bleed the brakes and they great next day no brakes again everything is new can't figure it out

[wrighty]

Does it have standard brakes on it now? Original? Originals brakes will have 10" drums. If it has 11" drums fitted on the rear check that the adjustment cams are central on the adjustment peg on the shoe.

[wrighty]

Another trick is to clamp the brake hoses in turn with a brake hose clamp or carefully with vice grips to isolate a problem. You can also clamp both front hoses & the rear one to see it the problem is in the master cylinder.

[John1991]

All standard replaced everything except the steel lines I just thinking a more modern setup might be way to go I'll try the clamps first thou

[John1991]

And would u know how hard it would be to convert to disc

[JDNSW]

All standard replaced everything except the steel lines I just thinking a more modern setup might be way to go I'll try the clamps first thou

The problem with "a more modern setup" is that you then have an experimental setup, which may have even more problems, such as incorrect front/rear braking effort..

The standard setup certainly should not need bleeding every day. You need to find the real problem. It is likely that you have one (or more) of the following problems:-

1. A faulty 'new' component, most likely the master cylinder.

2. Adjusters not staying put

3. Incorrectly installed return springs on brake shoes

4. Incorrect adjustment of the pushrod on the master cylinder

Also remember that you can bleed brakes at any union, although from your description I doubt this is needed.

As others have suggested, upgrading brakes using Series 2/3 lwb components, including perhaps 'six cylinder' front brakes will improve braking substantially above standard. Fitting a booster can also reduce pedal pressure. Fitting dual circuit brakes will be possible, but not as easy, due to the master cylinder being below the floor.

Disc brakes can be fitted, but the conversion will be quite expensive, for little advantage except resistance to fade and being less affected by wading. A booster is essential for discs, as is engineering approval.

[John1991]

Thanks for that as u can imagine I've checked and reche?ked the brakes multiple times I reckon u would be right at pointing Blame towards master and those pushrods especially as I believe certain parts of the pushrod setup are custom by the fact that their stainless

[John1991]

I'll try a new master it's just that I have been lead to believe that brake issues are common in land rovers especially the bleeding of them is this not the case ?

[wrighty]

The "bleeding" problem is usually caused by incorrect adjustment or mismatched shoes which means that proper adjustment is impossible & it takes a couple of pumps to get the shoes back close to the drums. Are the brakes standard or does it already have 11" brakes fitted? As JDNSW has said you can check for air at any union not just the bleed nipples. I use gravity to bleed brakes by making sure there is always plenty of fluid in the reservoir & then starting at the master cylinder crack each joint in turn & let the fluid flow until no air comes out. Most workshop manuals say to start at the wheel furtherest from the master cylinder but this only pulls air into places that may not have air in them. Try the clamping off of brake hoses I suggested last night as that should isolate where the problem is.

[John1991]

Cheers guys for help and they are standard 10" for now I will start stuffing around with it in a minute I'll try the things u guys have suggested and hopefully have work brakes today

[JDNSW]

I'll try a new master it's just that I have been lead to believe that brake issues are common in land rovers especially the bleeding of them is this not the case ?

I have been driving and maintaining Series Landrovers for over fifty years. I have never had brake issues that did not have a clear and definite cause, typically worn shoes, leaking oil seals, or leaking cylinders. I have never had real issues bleeding brakes, always just followed the manual instructions, and it worked. (You really need two people though)

My current 2a has always had reasonably good brakes, and currently, with new shoes and drums they are probably as good as new - which, for unboosted brakes stopping up to over three tonnes (including unbraked 750kg trailer) is not too bad, although pedal pressures are high by current standards, and they will fade and stop working after wading.

I think one of the problems is that we now have a generation of professional and home mechanics that have grown up with discs, and simply do not understand drum brakes!

John

[wrighty]

If you get REALLY stuck I commute from the Sunny coast & sometimes end up in Rocky. If you figure it out yourself you'll remember!

[John1991]

Thankyou for ur help guys