Alko anti-sway and DSC

[stewmair]

Wheeling downhill at 90kph pulling a 22'6" Pamplona caravan which has Alko anti-sway I was buffeted by a passing B double. The van started to sway then the DSC started a mighty battle with the Alko anti-sway that almost tore the steering wheel out of the hands.
Eventually managed to stop but next time I will be ready to turn off the DSC.

[Tombie]

Id be turning off the vans version.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

which way was the truck going?
(mine only ever sways by overtaking trucks)

why not switch off the Alko?

[mowog]

Wheeling downhill at 90kph pulling a 22'6" Pamplona caravan which has Alko anti-sway I was buffeted by a passing B double. The van started to sway then the DSC started a mighty battle with the Alko anti-sway that almost tore the steering wheel out of the hands.
Eventually managed to stop but next time I will be ready to turn off the DSC.

Have you raised this with Alko?

I asked them a while back about the potential of the 2 systems fighting each other. Seems it can happen.

I would turn off the ALKO system and use the LR system only.

[gghaggis]

Wheeling downhill at 90kph pulling a 22'6" Pamplona caravan which has Alko anti-sway I was buffeted by a passing B double. The van started to sway then the DSC started a mighty battle with the Alko anti-sway that almost tore the steering wheel out of the hands.
Eventually managed to stop but next time I will be ready to turn off the DSC.

Turning "off" the DSC (which only really de-sensitises it) won't disable the trailer stability assist. You'd be better turning off the Alko until they figure out how to make it work with car systems.

Cheers,

Gordon

[RoverLander]

This is interesting and i feared conflict between the D4 and caravan ESC when i purchased our 21 foot van. We have done over 25,000 kms around Australia and i never once noticed the caravan or car esc kick in.

I normally stick to a maximum speed of about 100kmh and often a bit below that.

How fast were you going when this happened? Was the downhill steep and were you already on the brakes as the truck passed?

I am wondering what could trigger what happened to you. Its not something i want to experience!

Peter

[stewmair]

I was travelling on a moderate decline at 90 kph as stated. MY 07 D3 does not have anti-sway, only DSC. You cannot turn off the Alko system or tow without the anti-sway bar down.

[Redback]

I was travelling on a moderate decline at 90 kph as stated. MY 07 D3 does not have anti-sway, only DSC. You cannot turn off the Alko system or tow without the anti-sway bar down.

Your D3 has Dynamic Stability Control and Trailer Stability Assist, which is in the old term is(anti sway) all Discovery 3, 4 and RRSs have it and you can't turn TSA off, only DSC, but as said doesn't fully turn off.

Baz.

[winaje]

Your D3 has Dynamic Stability Control and Trailer Stability Assist...

Funny that, everything I have ever read about TSA stated that it came in on the D4...

[gghaggis]

TSA is an extension of the DSC algorithms - the D4 will react faster to a sway condition than a D3, but the D3 is still capable of controlling dangerous caravan sway.

Having said that, none of these systems are "magic" - there are always conditions they can't control, and the driver still needs to be cognizant of the large lump attached at the back!

Cheers,

Gordon

[Redback]

TSA is an extension of the DSC algorithms - the D4 will react faster to a sway condition than a D3, but the D3 is still capable of controlling dangerous caravan sway.

Having said that, none of these systems are "magic" - there are always conditions they can't control, and the driver still needs to be cognizant of the large lump attached at the back!

Cheers,

Gordon

What he said, Gordon always explains better anyway:D

Baz.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

The old school fix using the brake controllers manual overide should have sorted it out quickly,,,:confused:

[stewmair]

The Alko anti-sway and braking system doesn't have a manual override. It is quite a different system, all in the drawbar and brakes. It has no in-car control.
Unfortunately that is how it is. I'm sure I can live with it.
"Desensitizing" the DSC should, I hope, do to stop the battle if it happens again.
In spite of the battle the sway didn't get out of control and we didn't lose it. The car and the van continued in a ragged but straight line.
To answer the other question; the lorry was overtaking me at well over the B double speed limit. There was a moderate crosswind between stands of trees, all set up for a problem!

[slug_burner]

So what makes you say the systems were fighting each other? My understanding is that the Alko system applies he brakes to the trailer. Does the TSA stop the braking on the Alko system? Given what was in the video, the LR system works even if not connected electrically to the trailer. Alko applies brakes to both wheels on the trailer and the DSC and TSC use the vehicle brakes applying them diagonally, on one side or however the algorithm requires. I don't know how the systems could fight each other. Maybe the systems actually worked and without them you would have lost it.

[Redback]

So what makes you say the systems were fighting each other? My understanding is that the Alko system applies he brakes to the trailer. Does the TSA stop the braking on the Alko system? Given what was in the video, the LR system works even if not connected electrically to the trailer. Alko applies brakes to both wheels on the trailer and the DSC and TSC use the vehicle brakes applying them diagonally, on one side or however the algorithm requires. I don't know how the systems could fight each other. Maybe the systems actually worked and without them you would have lost it.

Maybe the AL-KO system is reacting to the LR system trying to correct the sway, so as one system corrects, the other system tries to correct what the other system is doing:eek:

If you know what I mean, clear as mud:(

So one system is doing one thing and the other system is doing it's thing and it has actually made things worse and probably why LR don't recommend any other systems in conjunction with TSA and DSC, don't mention WDH, I did once but I think I got away with it:D

Baz.

[slug_burner]

Redback,

My understanding of the Alko system is that it puts the brakes on both wheels of the trailer. It does this after detecting lateral g on the trailer. I don't know enough about the LR systems to be able to say anything that will add to this thread. My question was to try and find out why the OP thinks the systems were fighting each other.

Will most likely never know unless you could conduct a repeatable experiment to turn things on and off to see if it takes longer to bring things under control.

[Redback]

Redback,

My understanding of the Alko system is that it puts the brakes on both wheels of the trailer. It does this after detecting lateral g on the trailer. I don't know enough about the LR systems to be able to say anything the will add to this thread. My question was to try and find out why the OP thinks the systems were fighting each other.

Will most likely never know unless you could conduct a repealed experiment to turn things on and off to see if it takes longer to bring things under control.

Yes, you're probably right, I only know from what has been said about both systems and one of things that a lot will argue/discuss for and against, just like the discusions on WDH;)

Here's the video describing how it works in the D4, if you haven't already.

https://youtu.be/5aDTvql4OYk

Baz.

[disco4now]

the lorry was overtaking me
A truck overtaking is definitely what has the greatest effect on a van in my experience, especially in a cross wind. You can see the van get sucked across about a foot as they come along side if they are close.

[mowog]

The single biggest problem with passing trucks is your own reactions and steering inputs. People tend to panic when they feel the movement. Sometimes the movement is huge sometimes its not.

The one single thing you shouldn't do is over react and try and correct to much, sometimes just holding course is the best way. If you start fighting the movement you are just creating a bigger problem that can get away from you very quickly.

If the tug isn't heading towards the bush then just hold the steering in the case of a D4 the trailer stability system will get things back in order.