My thanks to Scouse...

[p38arover]

....for letting me help pull the heads off my P38A today to do the head gaskets.

One head gasket had burned through to the outside world and was letting the engine emit chirping sounds. The other head gasket was on the way to doing the same thing

Without Scouse, the car would still be sitting in my driveway with me being depressed about it. It had only done 42,000 km since the complete rebuild by a Land Rover specialist - full balance, HC pistons, different cam, new valve guides, ported heads, etc.(I had them build the engine ready to be dropped in by KLR Auto).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1270.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/591.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1271.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/587.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/588.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1272.jpg

[Mick_Marsh]

Not too bad. I've had heads only last 10,000km in other vehicles.

[mtb_gary]

....for letting me help pull the heads off my P38A today to do the head gaskets.

One head gasket had burned through to the outside world and was letting the engine emit chirping sounds. The other head gasket was on the way to doing the same thing

I'll post pix later.

Without Scouse, the car would still be sitting in my driveway with me being depressed about it. It had only done 42,000 km since the complete rebuild by a Land Rover specialist - full balance, HC pistons, different cam, new valve guides, ported heads, etc.(I had them build the engine ready to be dropped in by KLR Auto).
Ron


I hope you've got a nice long breaker bar for those head bolts....they are hard work!


Gary

[p38arover]

We tried a rattle gun without success so ended up with a length of pipe over the breaker bar handle. However a couple of head bolts came easily without a breaker bar.

[daf11e]

Complete rebuild by a RRSpecialist and 42000klm........did I read this right?

[pop058]

Gee, thanks Scouse. Now we will never get him to part with it :D

[Scouse]

Gee, thanks Scouse. Now we will never get him to part with it :DIt's not back together yet - you may get it cheaper than you expected ;).

[daf11e]

Complete rebuild by a RRSpecialist and 42000klm........did I read this right?

The reason I asked is that mine has been losing very little coolant (20 mls per fortnight) down on the starter motor and think I'll need to do the head gaskets.
I know it won't come cheap but finding a good repairer is one option. The other option is for me to dismantle everything down to the heads and pay someone to put the new head gaskets on in my garage then put it all back together myself.
Do you think this is a good option? I am sure someone could do with some cash for a day's work .

[p38arover]

Complete rebuild by a RRSpecialist and 42000klm........did I read this right?

Yes. That's why I was depressed. I really hoped for more.

[33chinacars]

We tried a rattle gun without success so ended up with a length of pipe over the breaker bar handle. However a couple of head bolts came easily without a breaker bar.

And there is your possible problem . Heads may have needed a re-torque after a settling in period.

Some years ago got a change over engine ( Holden 202 ) was told it had to have the head re-torqued every 5000 kms. ??? Strange but true.

[daf11e]

Never heard of re torquing a p38 before.....wouldn't it be a nightmare to get to the heads in a Bosch Thor motor to re torque and put back together ?

[Scouse]

And there is your possible problem . Heads may have needed a re-torque after a settling in period.

Some years ago got a change over engine ( Holden 202 ) was told it had to have the head re-torqued every 5000 kms. ??? Strange but true.No need for re-torqueing these days with modern gaskets & stretch bolts.


The head bolts on the P38 (and D2) are torqued initially then angle torqued.

[mtb_gary]

The 2nd 90 degrees Is the tough one!

Gary

[Bushie]

The 2nd 90 degrees Is the tough one!

Gary


Longer bar :):)


Martyn

[TheTree]

Seems like a very quick failure of those head gaskets!

Mine motor was rebuilt 50K ago and I have an issue with low manifold vacuum, I am hoping it's not the inlet manifold gasket.

Sounds like it's worth checking the torque on those head bolts

And well done Scouse [biggrin]

Steve

[p38arover]

I'm not sure why but the rebuilder used early model head bolts, not the later stretch (torque to angle) bolts.

Top: Stretch (TTA) bolts

Bottom: Pre-early bolts

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1237.jpg

[TheTree]

General opinion seems to be that the ARP Stud kits are the mutts nuts :p

Steve

[p38arover]

Why are studs better than bolts?

[TheTree]

Ron

I believe it's mainly to do with being able to torque them more accurately and easily

Head Bolts vs. Head Studs (http://www.thomasnet.com/articles/hardware/head-stud-bolts)

Steve

[Scouse]

I also think they help reduce possible damage on the aluminium block. Instead of a turning & pulling force on the block, it reduces to a pulling force when studs are used.

[p38arover]

So, instead of buying extra head bolts, should I fit an ARP stud kit?

I did think there was an issue in fitting the heads in situ when studs were used. I suppose one could fit some studs, then the head, then the remaining studs.

Aha! http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-1/134324-v8-head-gasket-gone-after-9-months.html#post1537826

See also http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/43211-arp-studs-stretch-bolts.html

And http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=72718

[Pierre]

AFAIR, the problem of fitting heads over studs occurs with RRC and D1/D2 because the scuttle ridges out over the last pair of cylinders, making access a bad language exercise.


I used ARP studs on the D2 4.6l HC rebuild just finished for No.2 son for Broome without any access problems appearing to be an issue in future. But the engine was assembled out of vehicle, not quite how you are progressing your fault. I was impressed by the ease of stud nut tensioning with this change.


Cheers


Pete

[Hoges]

Hi Ron
I used the ARP studs...they fitted with no dramas. IIRC there is a positive location dowel. Some of the studs I inserted after the head was in place. The ARP studs come with ARP's special lube which reduces the friction and maximises the clamping force. For this reason, I ignored the recommended 90 ftlbs torque setting on the instruction leaflet (my extensive reading suggested this setting applied to dry threads) and reduced it to 65-70 ftlbs on the Elring gasket kit. This comes with a composite valley gasket. I bought a Payen metal one and lightly smeared "cling wrap thin" Loctite 518 around the water jacket holes etc. Same with the upper inlet (metal) (Elring) manifold gasket.

good luck with it;)

[p38arover]

I see ARP make a specific kit for the 10 bolt 3.9-4.6 engines, kit no. 157-4301

I'll ring Fabre tomorrow to see if they stock it. It does look exxy!

[p38arover]

Pics added to my original post and to another later in the thread.

[p38arover]

BTW, my car was also leaking at the exhaust gaskets. These are the steel ones. I've bought composites for the rebuild.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1067.jpg

[bee utey]

BTW, my car was also leaking at the exhaust gaskets. These are the steel ones. I've bought composites for the rebuild.


After a few noisy failures of composite gaskets I've gone back to steel ones. Composite ones blow out a big chunk, steel ones remain intact.

[TheTree]

Ron

Composite exhaust gaskets sound like they would be much better, I suspect I have a small exhaust leak developing as well

Are they hard to come by?

Steve

[p38arover]

Are they hard to come by?


No, they are an LR part ERR6733. The old steel gaskets are handed, you need 2 of each. The new one isn't handed so you get 4.

But now Jilden has me worried!

I've been told by a couple of people now that they don't use gaskets, just high temp silicone on the joint.

[TheTree]

Maybe I will just check the torque on my exhaust bolts!

I notice the composites are available "handed" as well

Land Rover Discovery Range Rover V8 EFI Exhaust Manifold Gaskets SET OF 4 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LAND-ROVER-DISCOVERY-RANGE-ROVER-V8-EFI-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-GASKETS-set-of-4-/311333672153?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item487ceed4d9)

Steve

[p38arover]

They don't appear to be handed.

[TheTree]

I thought they were since they are in pairs, I note there are also singles available which apparently are more difficult to fit.

But if chunks get blown our of them, it's a moot point really :o

Steve

[bee utey]

The steels gaskets fit either way up, clamping them between cast iron and aluminium means the raised lines will seal either way around. Unless they are damaged they generally seal again if reused. The last 3.9 engine I fitted new exhaust gaskets to got a set of later D2 (longer) bolts and spacer tubes to keep the wretched things tight. At least they were still tight 6 months later when I worked on it again.

Land Rover Discovery Range Rover V8 Exhaust Manifold Gasket | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Land-Rover-Discovery-Range-Rover-V8-Exhaust-Manifold-Gasket-/200807395255?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2ec10dafb7)

[p38arover]

At the moment I am seriously thinking of scrapping the car. I've had enough.

[Keithy P38]

Once she's a goer again Ron, you'll change your mind!

Plus - April fools day was over a week ago now!

[p38arover]

No, I'm serious. I could sell the Kaymar rear bar and wheel carrier; the long range tank; and the RRS wheels. There's at least $2K.

Dunno if the top-hatted block is saleable or not.

I've also got the drawer system could sell.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1048.jpg

[Keithy P38]

Re the bar & carrier ;-) mine was due to be made in August but life got in the way, will be in the next two months now all going well.

It'd be a sad day to see another P38 off the road for good though...

[TheTree]

But if you sell it or wreck it, you will then have to start all over again :D

I feel your pain though, 40K for heads off again is just not right :mad:

Steve

[Scouse]

Relax, it'll be going back together & will be driving again soon.








Either that or it gets rolled out of my driveway & into the Nepean River....

[daf11e]

Scott,Ron, does there appear to be any reason for the gasket fail that you can summize?

[p38arover]

There is another option. I have another P38A in running order from which I could get the motor or just register it and swap the good stuff from my current driver.

As I don't do any long trips, I won't bother swapping the long range tank.

This is my other P38A:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1045.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1046.jpg

[Scouse]

Scott,Ron, does there appear to be any reason for the gasket fail that you can summize?Not to my eyes but both head gaskets were leaking around several fire rings meaning that if the failure didn't happen where it did, it was about to happen in several other places.


One odd thing that Ron picked up on was that the engine was assembled with the old type head bolts, rather than stretch bolts. As the engine was assembled by a very well known Land Rover expert, I can only assume it was done for a good reason.


There was no sign of coolant leakage into the block bolt holes which might have indicated a weakness there & resulted in a loss of bolt tension.

[p38arover]

I've measured the heads and they are pretty much on the limit for machining.

According to RAVE, the cylinder head height at each end of the head when new should be as shown below.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=92601&stc=1&d=1428562833

On my heads, they are:

LH:
A = 22.7mm
B = 62mm

RH:
A=22.45mm
B = 61.95mm

[p38arover]

I've emailed the engine builder and given him a link to a lot of the pics. I need to go and see him so I've asked when he'll be there.

[clubagreenie]

This is what happens when you use bolts. The TTY bolts just plain suck ass. The early bolts are thinner and let the heads move.

PEOPLE EVERY THREAD THAT THIS COMES UP IN I STATE:

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD USE ARP STUDS!

Theres a reason nothing else gets used in race/rally/top fuel-alcohol etc etc etc. They just plain work. Follow the intruction FOR THE STUDS FINAL TENSION. The torque steps for a 4.0/4.6 are:

Fit studs, lubed with ARP lube, finger tight. Using a short allen key with ONE finger push a little tension onthe stud into the block. Fit heads, note D2 will, P38 may need the rear most studs fitted post head placement as the head won't go over the studs in car. On a stand no issue. Lube both sides of washers and place on. Lube underside of nut, fit WITH LETTERING UP (theres small engraving on the nuts) it's not a noted requirement but at tension it may grab the washer, cause an issue. It's a small thing and besides, all those nuts all looking the same looks good.

Tensioning, by memory ARP say 85lb with their lube, 90lb with oil.

1st. 20lb, in sequence.
2nd. 40lb, in seq. Wait 15min. Check @ 40lb.
3rd. 60lb, in seq. Wait 15min. Check @ 60. Wait 15min and recheck again.
4th. 75lb, in seq. Wait 15min. Check @ 75. Wait 15min and recheck again.
5th. 85lb, in seq. Wait 15min. Check @ 85. Wait 15min and recheck again.

I usually cover the engine at this point and leave overnight and recheck everything again next morning. If anything is down, recheck again after 30min. If still loose, remove all studs and test lengths against ARP lengths, pre & post tension. They do occasionally get a stray thread that doesn't play ball.

And Ron the block is non saleable, but I have a good use for it.

Hoges: Tighten up those studs. Studs requirement overrides gasket.

[Slunnie]

Does make me wonder if it's worth considering using ARP studs. :lol2:

Honestly Ron, I'd just get rid of it. In fact I'll start heading down with a trailer now. :D

Or, you and Scott could have it together shortly and be having fine with such a fine P38 in no time.

[Hoges]

This is what happens when you use bolts. The TTY bolts just plain suck ass. The early bolts are thinner and let the heads move.

PEOPLE EVERY THREAD THAT THIS COMES UP IN I STATE:

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD USE ARP STUDS!

Theres a reason nothing else gets used in race/rally/top fuel-alcohol etc etc etc. They just plain work. Follow the intruction FOR THE STUDS FINAL TENSION. The torque steps for a 4.0/4.6 are:

Fit studs, lubed with ARP lube, finger tight. Using a short allen key with ONE finger push a little tension onthe stud into the block. Fit heads, note D2 will, P38 may need the rear most studs fitted post head placement as the head won't go over the studs in car. On a stand no issue. Lube both sides of washers and place on. Lube underside of nut, fit WITH LETTERING UP (theres small engraving on the nuts) it's not a noted requirement but at tension it may grab the washer, cause an issue. It's a small thing and besides, all those nuts all looking the same looks good.

Tensioning, by memory ARP say 85lb with their lube, 90lb with oil.

1st. 20lb, in sequence.
2nd. 40lb, in seq. Wait 15min. Check @ 40lb.
3rd. 60lb, in seq. Wait 15min. Check @ 60. Wait 15min and recheck again.
4th. 75lb, in seq. Wait 15min. Check @ 75. Wait 15min and recheck again.
5th. 85lb, in seq. Wait 15min. Check @ 85. Wait 15min and recheck again.

I usually cover the engine at this point and leave overnight and recheck everything again next morning. If anything is down, recheck again after 30min. If still loose, remove all studs and test lengths against ARP lengths, pre & post tension. They do occasionally get a stray thread that doesn't play ball.

And Ron the block is non saleable, but I have a good use for it.

Hoges: Tighten up those studs. Studs requirement overrides gasket.


This is very good info...thank you! I'm thinking however that given the noise is like a small trumpet blast, that I need to replace the gasket. I will definitely stage the head tightening as per the above next time.

Just for info...how does one properly re-tension a head without removing it...
Do you begin in the middle and simply tension it in correct sequence with the max recommended setting on the tension wrench... or does one start from the outside, "de-tension" completely and then re-tensiuon as per the above sequence?

[clubagreenie]

You don't with TTY bolts.

With the studs you shouldn't need to either (or std bolts for that matter) gasket material usually dictates re-tensioning requirements. The payen monotorque gaskets were a revolution (composite) in gaskets. as they didn't require re-tensioning. Some MLS (multi layer steel) need it, as do older type steel. The gasket dictates re-tensioning requirements, fastener type dictates tension.

Rover TTY bolts had a range of approx 28% in final tension, stretch at different points on the bolt as well. Some were twisting the head without shaft rotation etc etc.

With approx $3000- spent on testing just the rover and it pretty much followed the results of testing the Toyota UZ series TTY bolts I haven't built an engine, infact any critical fastener (head, main cap, rod, flywheel/flex plate, diff etc etc) have been nothing but ARP fasteners.

[Hoges]

I used the ARP studs and the Elrin composite gasket but limited the torque to 70ft lbs... probably not enough:( So I'm guessing I need to replace the gasket and tension it as per prev. post?

[d2dave]

This is very good info...thank you! I'm thinking however that given the noise is like a small trumpet blast, that I need to replace the gasket. I will definitely stage the head tightening as per the above next time.

Just for info...how does one properly re-tension a head without removing it...
Do you begin in the middle and simply tension it in correct sequence with the max recommended setting on the tension wrench... or does one start from the outside, "de-tension" completely and then re-tensiuon as per the above sequence?

As has been stated, TTY bpllts are to be left alone once tightened.

The old style bolts, if retension is necessary, is done in the same order as when the head was fitted.
However, you do it one bolt at a time and loosen it first then retension.

[clubagreenie]

Since you used studs I would re-tension. From 70 do small steps or 5lb and let rest for a while. Basically as above, but a bit longer. BUTU check they are at 70 to start with.

[p38arover]

What is the price of an ARP stud set in Oz?

It looks like they were about A$235 http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/123609-fitted-arp-studs-my-3-9-v8-today.html

[clubagreenie]

Somewhere there

[p38arover]

Got the parts:

Vacuum test and surface heads: $182
Cometic head gaskets (2): $440
ARP stud kit: $308

Total $930

[clubagreenie]

For everything else there's mastercard.

How long before it goes in your other "infamous" thread?

[p38arover]

Sssshhhhhh!

[p38arover]

It's been quite pleasant not having the Rangie here. I was thinking this morning I could quite easily just walk away and leave it in Scouse's driveway.

[Scouse]

Great, I'll leave your new friend in there.


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=93053&d=1429770548


There might be tadpoles next week :D.

[p38arover]

How did that get in?

[Scouse]

He/she was on the A pillar last weekend when I opened the door to check what water had come in. The door was left open all day Sunday.
I tarped the windscreen up & opened the door again this morning to check again & he was just sitting there (as frogs do).


He's not there now so he's probably found somewhere safer & will give you a nice surprise on a nice windy section of Tasmanian road.

[Scouse]

**
He was still inside - under a heatshield.


I've popped him in the ashtray.

[d2dave]

It's been quite pleasant not having the Rangie here. I was thinking this morning I could quite easily just walk away and leave it in Scouse's driveway.

Go and wash your mouth out with soap.:)

[bee utey]

**
He was still inside - under a heatshield.


I've popped him in the ashtray.
That would be worth a "rebate".:D

[p38arover]

:angrylock: :oops2: :BigCry:

Scouse and I were putting the heads back on yesterday and I screwed up and caught one of the heads on either the studs or the exhaust manifold, scoring it at the fire ring.

This morning I took it back to the engine repair shop to have it reskimmed. The workshop really wanted to do both heads to match them but the other one is already bolted up and torqued down.

If you are doing this, make sure you have the exhaust manifold covered with cloth.

One thing with the Cometic gaskets is that they are slightly bowed and comprise 3 layers which separate. Getting them to stay on the dowels in the block isn't easy. It wouldn't be so bad on an engine stand where one can rotate the block to keep the block surface horizontal.

[daf11e]

I can imagine the words:censored: hope all good from here........best of luck mate

[TheTree]

Now that IS depressing :(

Good luck with the rest of the job mate!

[p38arover]

All going and back home.

Sincere thanks to Scouse for letting me help him.

New exhaust, new gaskets, heads machined.

[TheTree]

Well done Scouse and assistant :D

My next adventure under the bonnet involves tracking down a vacuum leak which may mean replacing the valley gasket though I hope it's the plenum or trumpet base gaskets which has the leak.

Steve

[d2dave]

Good to hear it is purring again and you are now back in love.:BigThumb:

[daf11e]

Glad you're back on the road :)

[clubagreenie]

Making popcorn for Ron's other thread. Hope it stays warm.

[Scouse]

Glad you're back on the road :)How do you think I feel?
:cool:

[clubagreenie]

He didn't park it behind yours did he?

[daf11e]

How do you think I feel?
:cool:


I can probably only Imagine....:twobeers::arms:

[TheTree]

On the subject of those pesky exhaust manifold bolts I came across this kit

S S Header Bolts Gaskets Nord Locks FOR Rover V8 TVR | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/S-S-header-bolts-gaskets-nord-locks-for-Rover-V8-TVR-/360238736884)

It should not be hard to source SS bolts and those nord lock washers so it may be an option as long as there is room for the washers

Steve

[Scouse]

On the subject of those pesky exhaust manifold bolts I came across this kit

S S Header Bolts Gaskets Nord Locks FOR Rover V8 TVR | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/S-S-header-bolts-gaskets-nord-locks-for-Rover-V8-TVR-/360238736884)

It should not be hard to source SS bolts and those nord lock washers so it may be an option as long as there is room for the washers

SteveI've never had a problem with the original flanged exhaust manifold bolts. The problem is the heat shield bolts/rivnuts :twisted:.

[TheTree]

I've never had a problem with the original flanged exhaust manifold bolts. The problem is the heat shield bolts/rivnuts :twisted:.

Did you put lock washers on them ?

[Scouse]

No lock washers.

I've never heard/seen them coming loose or seizing.

[p38arover]

This time, I fitted brass bolts into the heat shields, not steel.

Years ago, exhaust manifold nuts were always brass so they never seized.

I'm just back from 4 days away in the Rangie and it ran well.

[Hoges]

Hi Ron, glad it's all running well.. as a matter of interest... what torque did you use for the ARP studs?

[p38arover]

Hi Ron, glad it's all running well.. as a matter of interest... what torque did you use for the ARP studs?

100 ft lbs - we had trouble getting the torque. See http://arpinstructions.com/instructions/157-4301.pdf

Hmm, I just found this: WARNING: ARP stud kit 124-4003 on Rover V8!!! - Tools and Fabrication - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=72718) - that's a bit worrying. Note that I used kit 157-4301

[Hoges]

I also used the 157-4301 kit but on the basis of other posts etc set the torque at 65-70 ftlbs...:( This may have been on the issue of using the earlier kit.

Clubgreenie is recommending 85 ftlbs. The original recommendation in the instructions I got with the 157-4301 kit were to torque to 90 ft lbs using their special goo under the washers. Seems they have upped it.

From what I've been able to glean on other sites e.g LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum (http://forums.lr4x4.com), there's a difference between the kit 124-4003 for the 14 bolt heads and the later kit as above.

While some well experienced folk on rr.net report regularly using the earlier kit to good effect on 4.6L engines, it appears the earlier kits had insufficient depth into the head with the 7/16th thread, hence the cases of threads pulling out of the block...may have also been a problem with the block..

(a) What sort of trouble did you have getting 100 ft lbs... did the stud turn?

(b) Should I remove or at least loosen the lower inlet manifold bolts prior to re-tensioning the head?

All advice welcome!

[Scouse]

Hmm, I just found this: WARNING: ARP stud kit 124-4003 on Rover V8!!! - Tools and Fabrication - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=72718) - that's a bit worrying. Note that I used kit 157-4301I mentioned that to you when we were fitting the studs. Yours are fine - long thread section into the block / short thread section for the nuts.

[p38arover]

(a) What sort of trouble did you have getting 100 ft lbs... did the stud turn?

(b) Should I remove or at least loosen the lower inlet manifold bolts prior to re-tensioning the head?

(a) The problem was the body and arm angles leaning across the engine to try and pull 100ft. lbs., especially with my dodgy shoulder. Scouse had to do some of the tensioning. A couple of times in the tensioning process, as the torque climbed, there were little slips of a fraction of a turn which did concern me.

(b) Ahh, that I can't help with. I'd hate to make a wrong call. Even so, tensioning from where you are to 100 ft.lbs. won't make much difference in head gasket thickness and thus may not affect the inlet manifold. But I don't know.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

FWIW,, studs, lube and at least 85lb,,
ask me how I know,,go on,, it'll only take an hour(and a thousand bucks or so--)
:angel:

[Hoges]

Pedro... not sure about the "thousand bucks" implication... did you have a stud snap?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

no,
just two(actually 3!) headgaskets---
:angel:

[mtb_gary]

You guys are making me paranoid (I think that's what the P stands for in P38a). I replaced my head gasket around 7500 k's ago. Today I just had to do a compression test to make sure all was ok. Compression varied between 135 and 138 between all cylinders :D.

I can relax again :p

Gary

[finallyrangie]

Never relax, that's when they sneak up on you:wasntme:

[clubagreenie]

I used the old kit as that was all that was available. Looking at the pics from that original thread there's an issue with the installation or the kit as there's too much thread sticking out of the holes (as was mentioned a few posts down).

I've used them at 80pounds in alloy and cast blocks at 14:1+, 10,000rpm+ and 800HP + all without issues. As for the posters statement "they may not be suitable for use on engines that have had previous head fitment" Well that would preclude use on any engine that wasn't a new bare block. And the number of people using them in the applications they are used in without significant failures, at least of the studs and the studs could hardly "cause" block failure. I ALWAYS measure the hole depth, compare to the stud and test fit everything AFTER cleaning and chasing the threads.

Maybe that's why an engine assembly takes me a month or so.