Defender dyno tune HPF-Dandenong

[ProjectDirector]

I happen to be doing some work in Dandenong, Melbourne a few days ago and drove passed this big workshop called HPF. They do performance tunes and happen to also include the 2.2 defender. They have 4wd dyno to do their tuning.


Does anyone know them or had any experience with them.
Landrover Common Rail Diesel ? Horsepower Factory (http://www.hp-f.com.au/catalog/common-rail-diesels/landrover-common-rail-diesel/)
Cheers

[Pickles2]

I happen to be doing some work in Dandenong, Melbourne a few days ago and drove passed this big workshop called HPF. They do performance tunes and happen to also include the 2.2 defender. They have 4wd dyno to do their tuning.


Does anyone know them or had any experience with them.
Landrover Common Rail Diesel ? Horsepower Factory (http://www.hp-f.com.au/catalog/common-rail-diesels/landrover-common-rail-diesel/)
Cheers
HPF are VERY well known, but I do not know them with respect to anything to do with LandRovers or Diesels, only petrol V8s, Supercharging, Turbos etc, mainy on V8 Commodores, in which field they are known to be very good.
Pickles.

[POD]

Very interesting, given that I work in the area...will be interested to hear if anyone has used them.

[ProjectDirector]

HPF are VERY well known, but I do not know them with respect to anything to do with LandRovers or Diesels, only petrol V8s, Supercharging, Turbos etc, mainy on V8 Commodores, in which field they are known to be very good.
Pickles.


Well it will good to see if anyone on this forum had any experience with them

[PSI250]

I have had first hand experience with them, not rover related though.
Tuned my subaru last year and have not had an issue, made good power and has had no issues since ( it doesn't get babied either :-) ) they were very professional to deal with and happy to take the time to talk about the car / work.

As I said; non rover related although I don't think that would matter in this case.

They did tune les Richmonds LSA powered firestorm rangies too.

[ProjectDirector]

Update: spoke to these guys yesterday and apparently they haven't yet remapped a defender. They will also provide drivetrain warranty on new cars but this will come in a few months. The guy seemed confident doing a defender but I am not sure if I want to be the guinea piq. I don't think there is another place in Melbourne that will remap defenders and taking it to Bruce Davis is not an option.

[filcar]

Update: spoke to these guys yesterday and apparently they haven't yet remapped a defender. They will also provide drivetrain warranty on new cars but this will come in a few months. The guy seemed confident doing a defender but I am not sure if I want to be the guinea piq. I don't think there is another place in Melbourne that will remap defenders and taking it to Bruce Davis is not an option.



Have you considered the current BAS group buy offer?

[ProjectDirector]

Have you considered the current BAS group buy offer?


No, I prefer to walk into a workshop that I can see the outcome, that's just me.
I would do this after warranty is expired, another few months from now.

[Tombie]

No, I prefer to walk into a workshop that I can see the outcome, that's just me.
I would do this after warranty is expired, another few months from now.

To help you...

Would you rather walk into a workshop that regardless has never tuned one of these vehicles...

Or would you rather a tune from a man who has the runs on the board, with thousands of successfully and safely modified tunes...


I can run a dyno, and make it read almost anything I want - thats the nature of dyno work... if you want to manipulate outcomes you can (within reason).

I will put money on it - you aren't willing to pay the required dyno time to ensure the entire map is correct - or that they wont be able to resolve the low speed shunt issue which took Pete multiples of man hours to sort.

Ask if they understand the EGR disable process, throttle response issues etc... and ask who does the program...


I know, regardless, where I would be willing to hedge my bet...


I too, even over here in Whyalla have heard of those guys and they build some serious LS1 engines :cool: and they are good at it.... The SS club guys love them! (I wouldn't own one but lads mate is a member).


Wrestle with this in your head for a while - think of it as risk analysis!

[ProjectDirector]

To help you...

Would you rather walk into a workshop that regardless has never tuned one of these vehicles...

Or would you rather a tune from a man who has the runs on the board, with thousands of successfully and safely modified tunes...


I can run a dyno, and make it read almost anything I want - thats the nature of dyno work... if you want to manipulate outcomes you can (within reason).

I will put money on it - you aren't willing to pay the required dyno time to ensure the entire map is correct - or that they wont be able to resolve the low speed shunt issue which took Pete multiples of man hours to sort.

Ask if they understand the EGR disable process, throttle response issues etc... and ask who does the program...


I know, regardless, where I would be willing to hedge my bet...


I too, even over here in Whyalla have heard of those guys and they build some serious LS1 engines :cool: and they are good at it.... The SS club guys love them! (I wouldn't own one but lads mate is a member).


Wrestle with this in your head for a while - think of it as risk analysis!


Fully understand and appreciate what you are saying. I didn't say that I will go with them, given they didn't do a defender before but it is an option. The other thing is I am not sure how much experience they have with diesels given their expertise is with V8 cars.

Anyway, still thinking.....

[rangieman]

To help you...

Would you rather walk into a workshop that regardless has never tuned one of these vehicles...

Or would you rather a tune from a man who has the runs on the board, with thousands of successfully and safely modified tunes...


I can run a dyno, and make it read almost anything I want - thats the nature of dyno work... if you want to manipulate outcomes you can (within reason).

I will put money on it - you aren't willing to pay the required dyno time to ensure the entire map is correct - or that they wont be able to resolve the low speed shunt issue which took Pete multiples of man hours to sort.

Ask if they understand the EGR disable process, throttle response issues etc... and ask who does the program...


I know, regardless, where I would be willing to hedge my bet...


I too, even over here in Whyalla have heard of those guys and they build some serious LS1 engines :cool: and they are good at it.... The SS club guys love them! (I wouldn't own one but lads mate is a member).


Wrestle with this in your head for a while - think of it as risk analysis!

Id have to argue the point here :cool:
Sorry but where did these other guys in the uk get their experience . Pluck it from the sky i bet not they did the hard yards :p
So why put down someone local in oz that are willing to go the full 9 yards for us ;)
Personly id prefer a tune that was suited to our climate than the uk:angel:

[Beery]

Fully understand and appreciate what you are saying. I didn't say that I will go with them, given they didn't do a defender before but it is an option. The other thing is I am not sure how much experience they have with diesels given their expertise is with V8 cars.

Anyway, still thinking.....

Hi Project Director,
While you're still thinking, just keep in the back of your mind the BAS group buy offer. Its still available until the 5th July.
I took up the offer and just last weekend applied to my 130. I don't think there's too much to be concerned about re the lack of a physical workshop. People like Gary at Alive and Pete at BAS have put countless hours/months/years of development and testing into their OWN Defenders and other LR models.
As you say, I'd be a bit cautious about the fact that they have never remapped a Defender and probably dont really understand the vehicle and all its quirks that well either (not saying they dont know what they're doing at all).

Cheers
Tom

[Tombie]

Id have to argue the point here :cool:
Sorry but where did these other guys in the uk get their experience . Pluck it from the sky i bet not they did the hard yards :p
So why put down someone local in oz that are willing to go the full 9 yards for us ;)
Personly id prefer a tune that was suited to our climate than the uk:angel:

And you actually agreed with me in your first paragraph!!!

The locals may go the 'full 9 yards' and tune a vehicle...

In this case a vehicle they have NO experience with and have never tuned before.

So how much dyno time are you willing to pay for? I know Pete has spent countless hours just sorting the low throttle shudder, let alone ramp after ramp on each section of the mapping to ensure perfect performance. AT dyno rates you would get a tune that was fully tested for maybe $5-6,000 if you were lucky.

My post even praised the local boys and their work so unsure what your problem is..

The guys with the UK experience are now exactly that - very experienced... Pete was supplying Gary @ Alive (Gary was a B-A-S distributor) and does extensive development work and dyno work to prove his tunes... Then spends hours road testing them before the public get a chance to have them.

As for a local tune - suited to Aussie conditions... Thats always been an amusing comment...

Are you claiming they will tune and then test in -10c thru to 55c - Highly unlikely... In fact, it won't happen...

Like all dyno runs, the vehicle will be lifted to temp and then run up on the rollers...


Nope, in this case - Like the brand itself - I'll stick to the known, respected tuners with years of experience...

If I had an LS1 in need of a tune - Then I would head there for certain...:cool:

As I said, ask them about EGTs, Throttle surge smoothing and EGR close... If they can do the lot they may be worth consideration. However, since they have never tuned one, I wonder who is writing their code..

[rangieman]

And you actually agreed with me in your first paragraph!!!

The locals may go the 'full 9 yards' and tune a vehicle...

In this case a vehicle they have NO experience with and have never tuned before.

So how much dyno time are you willing to pay for? I know Pete has spent countless hours just sorting the low throttle shudder, let alone ramp after ramp on each section of the mapping to ensure perfect performance. AT dyno rates you would get a tune that was fully tested for maybe $5-6,000 if you were lucky.

My post even praised the local boys and their work so unsure what your problem is..

The guys with the UK experience are now exactly that - very experienced... Pete was supplying Gary @ Alive (Gary was a B-A-S distributor) and does extensive development work and dyno work to prove his tunes... Then spends hours road testing them before the public get a chance to have them.

As for a local tune - suited to Aussie conditions... Thats always been an amusing comment...

Are you claiming they will tune and then test in -10c thru to 55c - Highly unlikely... In fact, it won't happen...

Like all dyno runs, the vehicle will be lifted to temp and then run up on the rollers...


Nope, in this case - Like the brand itself - I'll stick to the known, respected tuners with years of experience...

If I had an LS1 in need of a tune - Then I would head there for certain...:cool:

As I said, ask them about EGTs, Throttle surge smoothing and EGR close... If they can do the lot they may be worth consideration. However, since they have never tuned one, I wonder who is writing their code..

Of course your right . Some of your tunes flopped which you admitted too previously.
You and i may differ on opinions :cool:. But at the end of the day if said company want to tune a diesel or different vehicle with their reputation on the line and yes do it with egt`s and so forth why would you not !

We both know that ambient temps can and do effect a tune :cool:

What im realy getting at is if this company want`s the buisness they realy should do what the market and customers requires in our country and if they are prepared to foot some of the cost`s invovled (dyno time ) all good then in my opinion:)

[ProjectDirector]

I am not sure where their tuning programs come from but it is called CRD-Flash tuning.
On their website they talk about what tombie suggested, quote "reprogramming the ECU gives us the unparalleled ability to alter torque management tables, throttle mapping, boost pressure, fuel pressure & injector timing "
Like I said I don't know how much experience they have with diesels so I will need to find out more. The phone conversation was not enough, I will drop in next couple of weeks.

[Pickles2]

HPF have an EXCELLENT reputation,.......on V8 petrol V8s,....I've been there, that is their forte,...I'm familiar with them.
I also am aware of what BAS & Alive do, & what their "forte" is.
So, would I send my LS1 to be tuned by BAS?..absolutely no way, for exactly the same reason I wouldn't send my Defender to HPF!!.....Not knocking either company, simply, Horses for Courses.
Pickles.

[voltron]

Tuning isn't rocket science. Coming from a petrol background before the defender, I had a powerful R34 GTR . I wouldn't hesitate for a second to take my Defender to the same guys who tuned my Gtr knowing very well they would probably have never seen one before. It's all the same thing, air, fuel and cooling. A good tuner is a good tuner regardless of the vehicle. When I rang them they laughed at me but were happy to do it. In the end I didn't purely because it defeated my purpose of why I switched to the defender in the first place and just decided to happily plod along.

[Tombie]

Tuning isn't rocket science. Coming from a petrol background before the defender, I had a powerful R34 GTR . I wouldn't hesitate for a second to take my Defender to the same guys who tuned my Gtr knowing very well they would probably have never seen one before. It's all the same thing, air, fuel and cooling. A good tuner is a good tuner regardless of the vehicle. When I rang them they laughed at me but were happy to do it. In the end I didn't purely because it defeated my purpose of why I switched to the defender in the first place and just decided to happily plod along.

And did the GTR have throttle curves, EGR etc modified in the ECU? Or just timing and AFR?

Funny that a "good tuner" can take a vehicle and set a few parameters in 2-3 hours that a manufacturer spends hundreds of hours working on :cool:

When I built my 5.0L Supercharged V8 - We ran the dyno for over 40 hours dialling in all the parameters and still had room for improvement...

Adjusting temperature compensation maps etc takes a lot more than a few hours and $1000 ;)

Its ok if you've done all that work before on a particular model vehicle, then you can tweak out the tune to accommodate mild variation between the same engine variants. Its very different on an engine you haven't done the long yards on...

Hopefully these boys will sink their teeth into this market - alas I'm guessing their bread and butter will remain LS1 / Rice tuning.

[voltron]

And did the GTR have throttle curves, EGR etc modified in the ECU? Or just timing and AFR?

Funny that a "good tuner" can take a vehicle and set a few parameters in 2-3 hours that a manufacturer spends hundreds of hours working on :cool:

When I built my 5.0L Supercharged V8 - We ran the dyno for over 40 hours dialling in all the parameters and still had room for improvement...

Adjusting temperature compensation maps etc takes a lot more than a few hours and $1000 ;)

Its ok if you've done all that work before on a particular model vehicle, then you can tweak out the tune to accommodate mild variation between the same engine variants. Its very different on an engine you haven't done the long yards on...

Hopefully these boys will sink their teeth into this market - alas I'm guessing their bread and butter will remain LS1 / Rice tuning.

So you wouldn't use a tuner who your familiar with and trust to tune your defender. Maybe I'm naive but I would in a heart beat. I get it when your pushing the boundary for every KW but is that the case in this situation. Why are you comparing a manufactured tune to an aftermarket tune. one is trying to find the best all round tune with multiple compromises and most aftermarket tune are aiming for something totally different. But they have the advantage of working from the base tune from the manufacturer. I've never heard of anyone spend only a few hours on the dyno, maybe in commodore world.😉

[Tombie]

Commodore world? Never tuned a Commodore in my life and wouldn't!!! :)

Looking at the power gains for the LR products they are offering the tunes are very generic maps.
I'm guessing not much different to the Autologic type tunes offered for earlier models.

Pete from B-A-S is getting far better with his bespoke tunes.

Btw - My 5.0l tune was a Discovery 1 V8 5.0 stroker.

And as you mentioned - a tuner tweaking a factory map is often only working timing and AFR.

B-A-S also modify Driver demand type settings to provide a far more enhanced experience.

I've got plenty of friends in the Dyno/Tuning game and they do Ricers through to Muscle cars...
Almost all tuning done in real time on a Dyno involves tweaking AFR and timing... Rarely if ever does anything else get changed.