Transmission failsafe mode

[Randy Lover]

Hi Everyone,
I've been reading your threads for a long time but now I need to ask a few questions so I've joined!

Brief history of my current pickle:
2002 TD6 HSE with a remap owned for about a year, gearbox serviced 10k ago at 143000kms (unloved before coming to me)
Was towing a 2.1ton trailer from Sydney to Darwin my GCM was about 5.1/5.2ton.
Keeping revs under 3K mainly 2250-2500 rpm. Speed around 110 on the flat, letting it slow down to whatever it felt comfortable up hills.
200kms east of Longreach my 'transmission failsafe mode' came on just after refuelling. I pulled over let everything shut down then started it all up again, dash was clear. Few hundred meters down the road it came on again, each time locking in 4th I think it is. Pulled over too look underneath saw coolant behind front left tyre on the under body. No other fluid leaks evident. Looking under the bonnet I could see it was coming from the reservoir cap, more than 140 psi is it??? Coolant was hot but no movement of the needle. Coolant topped up by the side of the road.
Few hours later after everything had cooled down we took off again with a clear dash and everything going smoothly.
This time keeping around the 100kph and mostly 2250rpm we went a further 250kms. Again, after a pit stop (didn't turn the car off) the failsafe mode popped up again. Under the bonnet this time we have a coolant leak at the front of the engine, top at the centre. Under where the front engine cowling would normally be, but this was left off when I got a new radiator last week by the mechanic. Coolant level was checked and ok with the little stream recirculating with no apparent air blocks in the system. No movement of the temperature needle. Turned everything off again but the failsafe stayed on and I could smell transmission fluid. Pulled over straight away. Underneath this time there was fluid leaks on 2, what look to be hydraulic hoses on the near side of the gearbox. I had also lost all drive at this stage whilst in drive.
Tow truck called and transported that night to the nearest town.
The next morning after being unloaded I started it up and put it in drive, this time it definitely selected a gear this time which it wasn't doing the afternoon before.
I've left Nicki at the scene of the crime (Blackall, QLD) with the Ra Ra and trailer to call around trucking companies tomorrow when the Easter break has finished to try and get both up to Darwin.
Does anyone have a trusted Landie mechanic in Darwin that is familiar with this model?
And secondly anyone have this gearbox problem before?
Any tips would be much appreciated.
I'm hoping that the head gasket is not gone and the gearbox is still in one piece, fingers crossed!!
Thanks, regards Graham & Nicki.

[donrover0]

It sounds like transmission overheating; that'll make it go to 3rd gear.
My 2003 did same one day in 40 degree with car on car trailer behind. 10 minutes cool down and away again. I've since fitted another trans fluid cooler into the system.
A lot of transmission heat comes from the torque converter if it isn't locked up.
Loss of drive-- low fluid pressure/ heat and possibly low fluid level. OR tc or way out. OR time for a tranny overhaul

[33chinacars]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it sounds like your auto's on the way out. Probably time for a rebuild of Trans & torque converter .

[Homestar]

Welcome to the forum guys, I just wish it was on better terms. I agree with the above from 33chinacars, sounds like the trannie is on its last legs :(. Unfortunately a very common issue with these transmissions when they get on a bit - as you have mentioned, it had nothing done to it before you got it. Chipping the engine won't have helped the cause - they are only just rated to take the torque from the standard tune. Running the engine at 2250 to 2500RPM puts it almost in the max torque range - which is perfect for towing, but not perfect for a transmission on the way out.

If you go down the full rebuild path, I would strongly recommend you send the trannie to Sydney - Rhys from Furious performance - is about the best in the business with these units (and is a member on here) and people from all over the country send their units to him. In the grand scheme of the overall costs of a rebuild, the transport is a very small component.

Email him at - rhys.b@furiousperformance.com.au or call him on (02) 9453 3222. He is a great guy to chat to and will know what is what.

I would love to say that I think it's something simple, but in this case, I doubt that - be prepared to dig deep for this - if you're paying to have someone remove and install the trannie as well as the cost of the rebuild and new trannie cooler and lines (a must) you may not get any change from $7K. :(

Been there, done that (doing exactly what you were doing) - as have many here. If you love everything else about the Rangie (and we all do :D) grit your teeth, get it done properly and you'll have many years trouble free motoring again.

[Defender Mike]

Welcome to the forum guys, I just wish it was on better terms. I agree with the above from 33chinacars, sounds like the trannie is on its last legs :(. Unfortunately a very common issue with these transmissions when they get on a bit - as you have mentioned, it had nothing done to it before you got it. Chipping the engine won't have helped the cause - they are only just rated to take the torque from the standard tune. Running the engine at 2250 to 2500RPM puts it almost in the max torque range - which is perfect for towing, but not perfect for a transmission on the way out.

If you go down the full rebuild path, I would strongly recommend you send the trannie to Sydney - Rhys from Furious performance - is about the best in the business with these units (and is a member on here) and people from all over the country send their units to him. In the grand scheme of the overall costs of a rebuild, the transport is a very small component.

Email him at - rhys.b@furiousperformance.com.au or call him on (02) 9453 3222. He is a great guy to chat to and will know what is what.

I would love to say that I think it's something simple, but in this case, I doubt that - be prepared to dig deep for this - if you're paying to have someone remove and install the trannie as well as the cost of the rebuild and new trannie cooler and lines (a must) you may not get any change from $7K. :(

Been there, done that (doing exactly what you were doing) - as have many here. If you love everything else about the Rangie (and we all do :D) grit your teeth, get it done properly and you'll have many years trouble free motoring again.

Rhys is the man, i had my Td6 box serviced a couple of weeks back at his shop. There are now upgraded torque converters, carbon clutches and harder valve bodies available to build a better , stronger 5L40e . I wouldnt trust any old auto shop especially in Darwin where things are a little Lacksadazial. Pull it out & send it down is how i would go.:)

[Randy Lover]

Hi All!
Thank you for your responses and related contacts. The Ra Ra and trailer got to Darwin late last night. I'm about to jump on a plane back to Sydney for a week so they will stay in the trucking yard till I get back. I'll touch base with your. contacts while I'm there and let you know what the tranny oil looks like in ten days!
Who'd have though giving a 13yr old prestige vehicle a performance upgrade then asking it to move 5 tonne to Darwin would cause so much trouble, ha.

Sometimes I wish I didn't inherit this gene from my dad. I actually got a stronger one than he did!
Thanks again, I'll keep you posted.

[Randy Lover]

Hello all,

The RA RA lives again! It got there by the below process. :)

We drained the transmission fluid, smelt burnt and was black.
We removed the transmission/ transfer case. Removed transfer case off the back when it was out from underneath the car.
After realising it was essentially a commadore transmission I was a bit more at ease with getting it fixed locally (Darwin). Dropped it off to Mick Taylor Automatics and was told it would be 2 weeks and worst case scenario of 5K.
6 weeks later got a call it was told it would be $7700 and he would have to order parts......
We thanked him for his efforts and picked the tranny up that day with no money exchanging hands....................
It got put back in a crate I made and was on the back of a truck to Sydney that week.
Was delivered to Wyong Automatics (our family has been going to these guys since owning my first car - 88 F250 with a C6 back in the late 90's).
Few weeks later we gave them $4000 and it was in its crate again and on its way back up here.
I've just driven it out of the shed to wash it this afternoon. Very happy considering I've only ever done oil changes before.
Cheers Graham and Nicki.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't have a choice, I was born this way - thanks Dad!

1991 Perentie 6x6 - expedition vehicle
2002 L322 TD6
2003 TD5 Disco (gone)
In the market for a Perentie 6x6 crew cab (rug rats on the way)

[peter g]

Did you replace the transmission heat exchanger (often called cooler) as well ?
A partially blocked unit could have been the trigger for fluid to overheat.

[33chinacars]

Hope you also replaced torque convertor & oil cooler . Any metal particles with soon destroy you new trans

[drivesafe]

Hi Randy, keep an eye on your transmission.

I went through the same type of failure many on here have had and I made the mistake of sending it to a reputable auto expert, and I genuinely mean he was a good auto guy.

But $5k and 12 months later, it started playing up again. This lead to me trading it in.

Trading it in was the biggest finical mistake of my life, I should have had a real expert in these vehicles fix it, like Rhys!

[Randy Lover]

Hi All,
Yes, TC was also done. Cooler and lines were replaced with new units.
That said, I'll never put a trailer on the back of it again, I've lost all confidence in this gearbox...... Shame.
On another note I drove a '08 TDV8 with 6speed box yesterday. That was lovely...... Anyone know if this box has similar problems?
Lovely power which also make me wonder if the box can handle it?
Cheers,Graham.

[LandyAndy]

The L322 auto is a GMH box,the Sport runs a ZF box.The ZF box is much better,but there are pitfalls.
Worth reading here.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/125041-disco-3-4-automatic-transmission-faq.html
ENJOY
Andrew

[rar110]

Hi All, Yes, TC was also done. Cooler and lines were replaced with new units. That said, I'll never put a trailer on the back of it again, I've lost all confidence in this gearbox...... Shame. On another note I drove a '08 TDV8 with 6speed box yesterday. That was lovely...... Anyone know if this box has similar problems? Lovely power which also make me wonder if the box can handle it? Cheers,Graham.

The ZF 6 speed was fitted to the L322 2006-2010, & RRS until 2013. The 6HP26 does have a very good reputation. Mine lasted to 240,000 and was very smooth to the end. It's downfall came from a LR failure to apply lubrication to the output shaft spline before attaching the transfer case. The spline on the shaft corroded and wore away until I lost drive. Up to then there was no sign of a problem. Comments on a UK forum site suggest this problem is showing up in a few of the earlier 6HP26 RRVs.

All fixed again. I was lucky enough to source a used box & TC. I had the TC removed to check the output spline for wear and lubrication. The spline was like new and it was greased up. A transmission service was done on the original tranny at 130,000 & 230,000km.

[Blade74]

I have a 2010 and I find it can be a bit sluggish in changing like most older automatics and also when it disengages and re engages sometimes it can be a little rough.
Not quite a thud but kinda grabs quickly.
It's only done 75000km and has had a service and also transmission firmware upgrade.
My 2010 Discovery 4 that I bought new had the same feel to it.
Is there anything to stop the harshness of it grabbing gear?
It seems like a trait of this automatic.

[rar110]

I have a 2010 and I find it can be a bit sluggish in changing like most older automatics and also when it disengages and re engages sometimes it can be a little rough. Not quite a thud but kinda grabs quickly. It's only done 75000km and has had a service and also transmission firmware upgrade. My 2010 Discovery 4 that I bought new had the same feel to it. Is there anything to stop the harshness of it grabbing gear? It seems like a trait of this automatic.

Mine really gets up & goes. It's going great. There seems to be one change down that is noticeable but hardly a thud. Otherwise it's great.

I test drove a new Paj 18 mths ago, and that had a thud when changing down for a hill climb.

I'm doing some beach driving on the weekend. I'll see how it goes there.

[Blade74]

I think it tends to be when you have braked and the transmission seems to let go of the gear. Then when you gently put your foot down it grabs again.
Almost seems like a thud but not quite.

[birdie370]

For the benefit of members recently had this problem it turned out to be failure of the electrical motor attached to the transfer box . Initially the message was Transfer case in Neutral My reaction must be an error how with the car proceeding can the box be in neutral and I persisted however returning from Brisbane the transmission overheating came up then transmission in fail safe. Got home but car would not climb driveway . Problem fixed with second hand motor $700 from Adelaide triumph spares (normal new price $2300 ) and Ricks $ wheel drive Nerang Fitting $229

[rar110]

For the benefit of members recently had this problem it turned out to be failure of the electrical motor attached to the transfer box . Initially the message was Transfer case in Neutral My reaction must be an error how with the car proceeding can the box be in neutral and I persisted however returning from Brisbane the transmission overheating came up then transmission in fail safe. Got home but car would not climb driveway . Problem fixed with second hand motor $700 from Adelaide triumph spares (normal new price $2300 ) and Ricks $ wheel drive Nerang Fitting $229



Is that on a transfer box for a 6hp26 transmission ? If so I'm glad I kept my old trans & transfer box.

[Roverlord off road spares]

For the benefit of members recently had this problem it turned out to be failure of the electrical motor attached to the transfer box . Initially the message was Transfer case in Neutral My reaction must be an error how with the car proceeding can the box be in neutral and I persisted however returning from Brisbane the transmission overheating came up then transmission in fail safe. Got home but car would not climb driveway . Problem fixed with second hand motor $700 from Adelaide triumph spares (normal new price $2300 ) and Ricks $ wheel drive Nerang Fitting $229

I found this.... repair guide by bending the potentiometer pins, the problem is from lack use of the change in high to low ranges, it causes a wear spot on the carbon,moving the pins allows fresh area of contact.
fullfatrr.com - View topic - Transfer box motor? (http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic15193-45.html)