Welding Gal Tube

[Tote]

Having spent a fun weekend building some sheepyards I have a question for the more learned welders among us.

The yards are built from various sizes of 2mm Gal RHS with gal sheepyard mesh welded to them.
I don't own a MIG so my TIG welder was pressed into service in DC stick mode and I had a couple of very frustrating days where if I wound up the amps to get a decent arc I could only weld about 10 mm before I blew a hole in the tube.

Most welds were just Fillet welds sticking a rail to a post. I was using 3.2mm general purpose rods and the sweet spot seemed to be at around 105 amps.

The welder is one of these:WeldSmart 200 Amp Ac/Dc Pulse Tig & Stick Welder Arc | Tig Welders | WeldSmart (http://www.weldsmart.com.au/welding-australia/tig-welders/weldsmart-200-amp-acdc-pulse-tig-stick-welder-arc)

As best I can tell it just does MMA with either AC or DC, it doesnt seem to do high freq start in MMA mode. (the manual isn't very informative) and I haven't used it much as a stick welder.

I got some better results after I reconditioned the rods in the oven on Saturday night but any tips would be appreciated. Is it worthwhile to go to smaller rods which should generate less heat?

Regards,
Tote

[Ean Austral]

Gday Tote,


I am not a qualified welder but have done my fair share, 2mm thick using 3.2 rods is a bit overkill. I would have thought 2.5 rods would have been the better option. I recently welded 2 & 3mm gal tube with this size rods.
I will be interested to see what other more professional welders in the forum have to say.




Cheers Ean

[incisor]

stick welder using cellulose flux rods (http://www.cigweld.com.au/product/mild-steel-iron-powder-electrodes/ferrocraft-11/) 2.5mm will do the job pretty dam well in my experience...

some cheap galv tubing will blow back if it hits a lamination.

you'll need some of that a2 milk in the other thread to help stop the galvo guts stomach cramps if you don't have something supplying you heaps of fresh air.. ;)

[Tote]

Plenty of fresh air- biggest problem was keeping the grass wet enough to prevent a fire. Had the fire pump going a few times during the day.
Thanks for the tips.

Regards,
Tote

[BigBlackDog]

High frequency start is a TIG thing only from everything I have read. Does it have an arc force control? Sometimes call Dig function. I haven't used one but cranking that up is meant to help stop sticking in MMA welding. The other MMA function would be hot start possibly? If you have no luck send it to me and I'll find a safe corner in the workshop for it:D

[85 county]

do not listen to any of that ^^^^^^ its rubbish

you can not weld Galv. so grind it off first SOP stupid if you do not.

use a 2.5 GP rod not an iron powder rod, that's for nice clean indoor veed fillet welds which you are not doing. ferrocraft cigweld are all rubbish.

get some of these

Weldcorp 2.5mm Mild Steel Welding Electrodes - 2.5KG Pack I/N 6330042 | Bunnings Warehouse (http://www.bunnings.com.au/weldcorp-2-5mm-mild-steel-welding-electrodes-2-5kg-pack_p6330042)

Now some basics. i hope you are using a manual helmet and not an auto helmet. that you have two gloves and are holding the hand peace with one hand and the other 1/2 way down the rod until you are 1/3 burnt and then move your hand back.

if you still can only weld 10mm before dropping the guts out of it. 1 probably your hand is not steady enough IE your weld is to fat, to slow to much heat. but that comes with practice.

simple answer is just weld 5-6mm then start again at the other end, another 6mm then back to where you finished off before. a bit ruff but better than dropping bird stuff trying to fill holes.

[85 county]

High frequency start is a TIG thing only from everything I have read. Does it have an arc force control? Sometimes call Dig function. I haven't used one but cranking that up is meant to help stop sticking in MMA welding. The other MMA function would be hot start possibly? If you have no luck send it to me and I'll find a safe corner in the workshop for it:D

every thing has a high frequency start now days, if you want to pay for it!

it is really just a gimmick for those who can not!

[Tote]

do not listen to any of that ^^^^^^ its rubbish

you can not weld Galv. so grind it off first SOP stupid if you do not.

use a 2.5 GP rod not an iron powder rod, that's for nice clean indoor veed fillet welds which you are not doing. ferrocraft cigweld are all rubbish.

get some of these

Weldcorp 2.5mm Mild Steel Welding Electrodes - 2.5KG Pack I/N 6330042 | Bunnings Warehouse (http://www.bunnings.com.au/weldcorp-2-5mm-mild-steel-welding-electrodes-2-5kg-pack_p6330042)

Now some basics. i hope you are using a manual helmet and not an auto helmet. that you have two gloves and are holding the hand peace with one hand and the other 1/2 way down the rod until you are 1/3 burnt and then move your hand back.

if you still can only weld 10mm before dropping the guts out of it. 1 probably your hand is not steady enough IE your weld is to fat, to slow to much heat. but that comes with practice.

simple answer is just weld 5-6mm then start again at the other end, another 6mm then back to where you finished off before. a bit ruff but better than dropping bird stuff trying to fill holes.

Yep,
Doing most of that stuff. Auto Miller helmet though, yep to the gloves and the control of the electrode with the spare hand and welding in short lengths was how I was getting it done, I think my major problem was probably the 3.2m rods.

Thanks for the suggestions,

Regards,
Tote

[incisor]

do not listen to any of that ^^^^^^ its rubbish

you can not weld Galv.

wonder what i was doing for all them years... silly me

the cellulose rods burn hotter than your std rod and burn thru the glav..
unless it is millimeters thick.

did it many times over the years when i was on the tools

give it a try all knowing one...

[85 county]

wonder what i was doing for all them years... silly me

the cellulose rods burn hotter than your std rod and burn thru the glav..
unless it is millimeters thick.

did it many times over the years when i was on the tools

give it a try all knowing one...

ok ill argue, iron power rods as you recommended will not burn though squat, ether you have your rods mixed up or you are just wrong.

also this guy is out side, and is not welding veed fillets. iron power are just way to wet for that. they are not a GP or all position rod.

and you should never burn though galv, well OK if you do not like life

[incisor]

ok ill argue, iron power rods as you recommended will not burn though squat, ether you have your rods mixed up or you are just wrong.

from my link...


Ferrocraft 11 is a cellulose electrode suitable for high penetration welding applications using both AC and DC power sources. White flux colour for easy I.D.

mate.. go try one instead of talking...

[85 county]

from my link...



mate.. go try one instead of talking...

time served and indentured

[incisor]

funny that..

me too :p

[flagg]

I found these to be great when welding gal:

*3M Particulate Welding Respirator 8212 N95 (http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3M-PPE-Safety-Solutions/Personal-Protective-Equipment/Products/Product-Catalog/~/3M-Particulate-Welding-Respirator-8212-N95-with-Faceseal-80-Case?N=7576200+8690968+3294160606+3294161345+32945 29207&rt=rud)

It is really nasty stuff, and worth the $50 or so I paid for the box of 5.

Still grind the gal back though, it will be much cleaner and easier. Touch it up with some cold gal when its cooled off, and rust won't be a problem.

[Toxic_Avenger]

Politics aside,

Use a GP6013 "13" rod, and grind the gal back as others have mentioned. Zinc vaporizes at 700 degrees, the weld pool is upwards of 1200 degrees, hence all the fume and spatter and crap weld.

110A would be right for a 3.2mm rod, you would be best with a 2.5mm and between 70-90A- suck it and see how it goes. Learn how to read a weld to fine tune your amps.

Iron powder rods 7024 grade are high deposition for thick section-4mm and upward. They are not an all positional rod like gp's, so you'll get into strife with the out of position sections of the job. The only people I know who buy 7024's are guys in structural production- think roof support beams manufactured in a workshop-places you need massive weld penetration and fast weld speeds... which is realistically the domain of MIG.

[85 county]

Politics aside,

Use a GP6013 "13" rod, and grind the gal back as others have mentioned. Zinc vaporizes at 700 degrees, the weld pool is upwards of 1200 degrees, hence all the fume and spatter and crap weld.

110A would be right for a 3.2mm rod, you would be best with a 2.5mm and between 70-90A- suck it and see how it goes. Learn how to read a weld to fine tune your amps.

Iron powder rods 7024 grade are high deposition for thick section-4mm and upward. They are not an all positional rod like gp's, so you'll get into strife with the out of position sections of the job. The only people I know who buy 7024's are guys in structural production- think roof support beams manufactured in a workshop-places you need massive weld penetration and fast weld speeds... which is realistically the domain of MIG.

in fact iron powder rods were what we used before mig welders were around, and used as you explained, do not use them often now days. maybe for a very fat cosmetic weld, noting looks as sexy as a good iron power weld.

[incisor]

no politics involved, seems just a lack of comprehension :p

13's are fine if you have time to for grinding and prep etc etc but don't always work as well as they should if conditions don't suit.

11's just burn thru it and the light flux just peels up and off if you have your amps right... quick wire brush, squirt of cold gal and your done.

if you ever do commercial quantities of galv handrails or welding rolled glav framing etc onsite you'll soon see the advantages of 11's over 13's.

we used to go through 8 or 10 boxes of 11's for every box of 13's we used when doing light galv work as the 13's were rarely used for the root run and only used for looks in tricky spots.

22's were my favorite rods....

in the late 70's / early 80's i used to weld underground mine switch boxes done in 25mm plate and they wouldn't allow mig welds or sub arc, so we had to use the long 5mm 22's on 1m square boxes... was fun in summer but nice in winter

even more fun watching them try to blow the odd one up in testing...


leave you with it...

[Toxic_Avenger]

Admittedly I've never used a 6011 rod, but going over the info I have, it doesn't mention that it is a suitable rod for galvanized materials. It's marketed as a pipeline rod, for root, hot fill, and capping passes on pipe.
Maybe it's a case of "your results may vary", but in my experience, for the average punter building sheep pens without pockets deep enough to stretch to China, a gp 6013 would be fine.

Might also be worth checking out a cigweld product called smoothcraft. It's a rutile-ilmenite flux rod which may be more suitable. Great edge wetting and particularly good for thin gal jobs. With your burn thru symptoms, you'll also be happy to know they do this rod in a 2.0mm which is smaller than most others.

[incisor]

Admittedly I've never used a 6011 rod, but going over the info I have, it doesn't mention that it is a suitable rod for galvanized materials. It's marketed as a pipeline rod, for root, hot fill, and capping passes on pipe.
benefit of my experience shall we say...

the blurb also mentions high penetration, they were / are used in pipe welding and ship building which s where i came across them originally before i ended up in a job where they did galv in all sorts of things from handrails to rolled / formed glass house frames and used them extensively

like i said to the other fella that didn't bother to read the blurb and continued bleating that it was a high iron powder rod..

if you get the chance try one... they are cheap and in my experience great for what the op originally said he wanted to do.

in my experience

[Ancient Mariner]

Just did a couple or runs to see what you blokes were on about
One is with 2.5 satincraft 13 at 65 amps slight weave with the zinc ground off.The other 3.2 satincraft 13 at 90 amps thru the zinc The welder a 50+year old AC pie warmer the opp a 70 year old who shakes like a dog ****ting razor blades has a 2.5 x mag lens as well as2.5 x reading glasses You shouldn't have to grind off the zinc on duragal or pipe:o but would be best on hot dipped

[Tote]

Got a packet of these suckers this afternoon Austarc 12P | General Purpose | Arc Welding Electrodes | Filler Metals |?WIA (http://www.welding.com.au/filler-metals/view/austarc12p) the packet does recommend them for Gal so I'll see how they go.
The cellulose rods are pretty difficult to find, Blackwoods only get them in on order and the shop where I got the other ones didn't stock them either. I might have a look at Gasweld tomorrow and see if they have any so I can test the difference as my curiosity is now aroused.

Regards

Tote

[incisor]

Got a packet of these suckers this afternoon Austarc 12P | General Purpose | Arc Welding Electrodes | Filler Metals |?WIA (http://www.welding.com.au/filler-metals/view/austarc12p) the packet does recommend them for Gal so I'll see how they go.
The cellulose rods are pretty difficult to find, Blackwoods only get them in on order and the shop where I got the other ones didn't stock them either. I might have a look at Gasweld tomorrow and see if they have any so I can test the difference as my curiosity is now aroused.

Regards

Tote

yeah they won't be as popular as they used to be.

they were nicknamed sparklers by many in my day... you'll see why if you find them :p