Technical and Running In Advice

[LouisW]

Defender 2.2 Puma experts.

I have a few questions re running in and maintaining my New Defender 90.

1. How should I drive it, like "Miss Daisy" or with some "Purpose" ? (I have been told diesels need to be Driven!)?

2. Should I have the oil changed every 5000km ?

3. And can someone explain this catalytic or DTF (whatever that is fitted to the 2.2 Puma) whats it all about ??

Thanks Guys

PS I changed the steering wheel myself and as someone who has never picked up a Spanner in his life, I feel DEAD PROUD of myself :)

[Lagerfan]

When we got ours new a couple of years back I found an Ultra-Gauge UltraGauge OBDII Scan tool & Information Center (http://www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/) was a very useful addition, gives you access to all sorts of internals which can be useful in getting the feel for your new Deefer.

I was told by LR (several times) that changing the oil more often than the 20k intervals was a waste of your money. Jury here seems to still be out on that one but I've gone for a compromise 15k interval depending on what we've been up to, which seems to be the best advice... "it depends".

Oh and they say "drive it like you stole it" to run it in, I never understood what that means... only at night? Avoiding police stations? :D Seriously though I understand from the gurus here that diesels like to get nice and hot, hotter the better so long runs at a reasonable load are good for it when running in.

[LouisW]

When we got ours new a couple of years back I found an Ultra-Gauge UltraGauge OBDII Scan tool & Information Center (http://www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/) was a very useful addition, gives you access to all sorts of internals which can be useful in getting the feel for your new Deefer.

I was told by LR (several times) that changing the oil more often than the 20k intervals was a waste of your money. Jury here seems to still be out on that one but I've gone for a compromise 15k interval depending on what we've been up to, which seems to be the best advice... "it depends".

Oh and they say "drive it like you stole it" to run it in, I never understood what that means... only at night? Avoiding police stations? :D Seriously though I understand from the gurus here that diesels like to get nice and hot, hotter the better so long runs at a reasonable load are good for it when running in.

Thanks Mate ! I will give it some "wellie" :)

[Summiitt]

5000km oil changes won't hurt but it's abit of an old school diesel thing..on our Tdi and td5 we change at 12,000km.. The Pumas are changed at 20k.. Oils have got better as have engines, and economically I can't afford to do oil changes every 5000km.. In the case of the Pumas that would be an oil change every 6 weeks.. As for running in, warm it up then drive it hard, at around 35k my fuel consumption started to drop and the motor started to free up and pull harder. Don't drive it like miss daisy!!

[LouisW]

5000km oil changes won't hurt but it's abit of an old school diesel thing..on our Tdi and td5 we change at 12,000km.. The Pumas are changed at 20k.. Oils have got better as have engines, and economically I can't afford to do oil changes every 5000km.. In the case of the Pumas that would be an oil change every 6 weeks.. As for running in, warm it up then drive it hard, at around 35k my fuel consumption started to drop and the motor started to free up and pull harder. Don't drive it like miss daisy!!

Thanks Mate but, How hard is hard, do I exceed 4000 rpm?

[Pickles2]

Drive it normally & service it by the book. Don't let it labour & don't over rev it.
4000RPM??...Never been there,....I usually drive up to around 2800RPM, but not much more.
DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter)?.....Not fitted to Aussie 2.2Puma Defenders.
Pickles.

[simmo]

This is a timeless argument , but I agree with Pickles , just drive normally and a little bit considerately, don't flog it for the first 5000 kms, avoid high sustained speeds/ loads, avoid over torque situation, ( low revs/ hard work). I don't see how flogging the engine early on can bring a benefit to you, it's contrary to conventional ideas.

I don't see any need to change the oil if the engine has a centrifuge filter and good oil filtration. That idea has fallen out of favor. We do oil analysis after running in and the the oil is normally fine to go until the recommended oil change time. But people need to need careful about about ( "Changing oil before 20,000km is a waste of money") The oil might look clean that doesn't mean it has the same viscosity characteristic, or that the chemical additives are still the same. The longevity of those characteristics is very much dependent on the oil. Eg in my volvo 265, ( they were tough on Lube oil), the XXXX oil I was using would go in thick, 5000 km s later you could hear the cam chains and valves, and notice the LO pressure was going down. ( change to Penrite HPR30)
I have attached, (maybe :) ) a factory running in instruction for a marine CRD high performance diesel similar to the modern landrover engine for your interest.

I would change the gearbox , transfer case, and diff oils after the first 5000-10000k, Those gears will be lapping themselves in , and the debris will have not be filtered out, but held in suspension mostly.

cheers simmo

[LouisW]

Drive it normally & service it by the book. Don't let it labour & don't over rev it.
4000RPM??...Never been there,....I usually drive up to around 2800RPM, but not much more.
DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter)?.....Not fitted to Aussie 2.2Puma Defenders.
Pickles.

Thanks Pickles. I meant change at 4000rpm not drive there :) but I will change around 3000 to 3500 and drive under 3000

I was told that DPF are fitted to new defenders not catalytic converters. Either way can you explain the difference to me ?

[LouisW]

This is a timeless argument , but I agree with Pickles , just drive normally and a little bit considerately, don't flog it for the first 5000 kms, avoid high sustained speeds/ loads, avoid over torque situation, ( low revs/ hard work). I don't see how flogging the engine early on can bring a benefit to you, it's contrary to conventional ideas.

I don't see any need to change the oil if the engine has a centrifuge filter and good oil filtration. That idea has fallen out of favor. We do oil analysis after running in and the the oil is normally fine to go until the recommended oil change time. But people need to need careful about about ( "Changing oil before 20,000km is a waste of money") The oil might look clean that doesn't mean it has the same viscosity characteristic, or that the chemical additives are still the same. The longevity of those characteristics is very much dependent on the oil. Eg in my volvo 265, ( they were tough on Lube oil), the XXXX oil I was using would go in thick, 5000 km s later you could hear the cam chains and valves, and notice the LO pressure was going down. ( change to Penrite HPR30)
I have attached, (maybe :) ) a factory running in instruction for a marine CRD high performance diesel similar to the modern landrover engine for your interest.

I would change the gearbox , transfer case, and diff oils after the first 5000-10000k, Those gears will be lapping themselves in , and the debris will have not be filtered out, but held in suspension mostly.


cheers simmo


Thanks Simmo I will drive it normally and take your advice about changing the gear box, transfer & diff at 5000km.

But no harm will be done if I change the oil early just the cost

[AndyG]

Well, I got mine in Sept, and 3 weeks later and 5,000 km via Birdsville, Marree, Lake Eyre, Innaminka I gave it a service at an independent. Change oil & filter and went over the dangly bits with a torque wrench, 0 issues.
I made a point of varying the engine load in the first 1000 km and gave it a fang up the Toowomba Ranges. 2400 is my normal change point and beyond 3000 no point.
Simmo makes a good point re the driveline and I will have the oils changed at the next service.
Given the recommended service for arduous use is 10,000 I will be doing that. As mine is a toy not a commute, and hopefully will spend its time on the dirt.
BTW you will find the service schedule in the files up top.
And we'll done on doing the wheel.
How did your ebay sale go?

[LouisW]

Well, I got mine in Sept, and 3 weeks later and 5,000 km via Birdsville, Marree, Lake Eyre, Innaminka I gave it a service at an independent. Change oil & filter and went over the dangly bits with a torque wrench, 0 issues.
I made a point of varying the engine load in the first 1000 km and gave it a fang up the Toowomba Ranges. 2400 is my normal change point and beyond 3000 no point.
Simmo makes a good point re the driveline and I will have the oils changed at the next service.
Given the recommended service for arduous use is 10,000 I will be doing that. As mine is a toy not a commute, and hopefully will spend its time on the dirt.
BTW you will find the service schedule in the files up top.
And we'll done on doing the wheel.
How did your ebay sale go?

The eBay sale went better than expected sold everything at what I though was a good price for me :)

[ozrob]

I bought my MY13 Defender 110 on the 19th December 2013, I drove it out of the dealership in Albury and drove it at highway speeds for five hours on the way home, I also commute 160km per day to work.
Nil issues with the engine...drove it like I stole it....I now have 64000km on the clock.
Do the regular servicing at the recommended intervals and you will be fine as oils have advanced a lot in the past 20 years as the 2.2 takes a high quality engine oil.
The Aust version does not have a DFP filter...but they have a catalytic converter.

[tact]

Here is a link (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/176542-new-110-dc-family.html#post1935864)to the strategy I decided to follow... written more than a year and a half ago.

Now with 32,000k on the clock no issues.


edit: maybe this post (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/176542-new-110-dc-family-2.html#post2163092) written a year later than the above is better info....

[PAT303]

I would change the oils as per Land Rovers servicing,early changes are wasting good oil,don't drive like miss Daisy,let it idle for 30 secs first thing in the morning and take it easy for a K or two and then drive it like normal,short change first to second,second to third and then take it up to 60 and into fourth.Once it's warm you can skip gears,first to third and then fourth,or 1st,3rd,5th taking it to 2400 rpm before changing,don't run it in,potter along or any of that crap,drive it. Pat

[Wheatos]

Here is a link (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/176542-new-110-dc-family.html#post1935864)to the strategy I decided to follow... written more than a year and a half ago.

Now with 32,000k on the clock no issues.


edit: maybe this post (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/176542-new-110-dc-family-2.html#post2163092) written a year later than the above is better info....

That's a great report, and I'm particularly interested in the explanation of throttle use at different stages.

What's the theory for this (in laymans terms)? I'm getting my new 110 very soon, so am keen to understand these little techniques.

Cheers.

[loneranger]

I didn't have any particular approach to running either of ours in. I drove according to how they responded better. What I noticed was higher revs when changing gears resulted in less backlash and in general slightly higher revs in normal driving gave a better, smoother drive.

[PAT303]

I had mine bouncing off the speed limiter within a hour of buying it,same with my Tdi and that old girl ticked over 473,000k's yesterday. Pat

[tact]

That's a great report, and I'm particularly interested in the explanation of throttle use at different stages.

What's the theory for this (in laymans terms)? I'm getting my new 110 very soon, so am keen to understand these little techniques.

Cheers.

I gleaned most of the "modified drive-it-like-you-stole-it" plan from a few other sites. Maybe Google "running in modern small turbo diesels". I can't remember the sites to give proper attribution.

The thinking seems to be that modern turbo diesels need to be driven such that they are on boost pretty often so as to properly seat and seal piston rings. I.e. Make them "work" from scratch.

"Work it" reportedly doesn't mean revving the crap out of it. Nor does it apparently mean foot to the floor in tall gears with lowish revs...(labouring/lugging the engine)

Some sites (and some people here) advocate thrashing from day 1. But even they will say you must properly warm up the engine first and at least don't lug the engine (boot down hard, too low revs, too high a gear)

I am not an expert. I just read up on the various variations of "drive it like you stole it" and settled on something like that... Short of thrashing, and no long durations at a constant speed in the early stages.

[YOLO110]

I was told that DPF are fitted to new defenders not catalytic converters. Either way can you explain the difference to me ?

A Cat converts converters combined carbon monoxide (CO) with unburned hydrocarbons (HC) to produce carbon dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O) that also reduce oxides of nitrogen (NOx).

A Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) doe what is says on the tin! Unburnt diesel (like we see coming out of many truck exhuasts) contains many small particles. The DPF captures these and as it gets hotter, literally then burns them off. If you don't drive your car for long enough, the filter can get clogged.

I have no idea why OZ environmental legislation does not require the same compliance with emissions as is in Europe now. DPF 's and Cats are fitted to all diesel cars... no soot out the back of diesel trucks or cars here, almost no diesel smell either! Considering the engines are designed to run with these in place, its pretty nuts they take the DPF off for the OZ market! :confused:

(Euro laws also specify 'ultra low sulphur diesel' which is higher up the refining tree, hence more expensive. I am guessing because we don't have that in OZ, a DPF could become clogged pretty quickly?)

Hope that helps!

Pete :)