Theft of vehicles with keyless ignition

[Tote]

Why you should keep your keys in the freezer....

Why keeping your keys in the freezer can stop thieves breaking into your car (http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/consumer-security/why-keeping-your-keys-in-the-freezer-can-stop-thieves-breaking-into-your-car-20150415-1mm25p.html)

A very interesting story regarding how a little lateral thinking can allow someone to open and maybe start your car fitted with keyless entry.

Regards,
Tote

[Eevo]

this isnt new.

any system can be defeated.

[Slunnie]

Does the freezer act as an RF proof box or similar? Interesting read!

[Tote]

Yes, the freezer acts as a faraday cage, a metal cash tin would achieve the same objective.

Regards,
Tote

[RHS58]

I'd be worried pulling your frozen key out of the freezer will cause condensation to occur inside the key and create corrosion and electrical gremlins.
I've had problems with a camera I used in subzero temp,s getting moisture condensing inside when the camera was brought inside where it was warm.
Why not wrap the key in alfoil, or put it in a metal cash box?

Ron

[bee utey]

Well if a frozen key doesn't get the thief into the car a well aimed frozen chicken will.:p

[Tombie]

Well if a frozen key doesn't get the thief into the car a well aimed frozen chicken will.:p


Thanks for that... My day just got a little better!

[Tombie]

So would the fridge, with less thermal shock.

Or a saucepan with lid, a metal cash box etc

[Ferret]

Wrap your keys in aluminium foil. Wrap a little around your head too. :D

Anyway, it is an interesting angle, an amplifier to increase the range of the vehicles radios.

[benji]

Why not change the communication so that they key fob initiates the unlocking sequence?

There are also other devises that record your key fob when you lock the car so that it can be opened the second you're out of sight.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[scarry]

Why not go back to a normal ****ing key and all will be good:)

[87County]

Why not go back to a normal ****ing key and all will be good:)

It's all been gimmicked for your convenience :)

(electronic gimmicks are cheaper than old fashioned keys - I'm not sure how difficult it will be to hotwire when it stops working in a remote location)

[scarry]

It's all been gimmicked for your convenience :)



And security.

What about all those new RR that were stolen in the UK?
Something like 300 in one month.
The old Classic would have been more secure:D

[Homestar]

Do the modern keyless entry systems use the same frequency to allow the engine to start? I can see them breaking into cars using a device like this, but if your key has an RFID chip as well, then that will stop them from physically taking the vehicle. The RFID is passive, and can't have its signal boosted like the entry system can.

I don't keep anything of value in the car anyway.

[Eevo]

proper car security

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUFJwr1d880

[rufusking]

BlackBox have an item called CAN-LOCK from what I understand disables the keyless entry system and reverts to convention button open.

News - NANOCOM Evolution (http://nanocom-diagnostics.com/news.php?articleid=106)

[AndyG]

Well if a frozen key doesn't get the thief into the car a well aimed frozen chicken will.:p

I'm not recommending this, but in a previous job the store manager caught someone stealing a frozen chicken, so he locked him in the freezer for an hour, then gave him a good pelting with frozen chickens. :o

Another time someone tried to steal a liter of cooking oil, feeling sorry for the hungry person he let him drink it all down before chucking him out.

Ah PNG :D

[BBS Guy]

Hiya all

The security loop hole that allows the quick and easy theft of vehicles with Keyless ignition is a subject that I happen to have taken a very keen interest in since mid 2012 when reports of a sharp rise in such equipped BMW thefts became public knowledge.

https://www.google.com/search?q=BMW+easy+theft+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=Easy+BMW+theft

In the face of overwhelming publicity, BMW had to admit the problem with a promise to sort it, which actually they cannot IMHO, and other vehicle manufacturers denied their vehicles had the same security problem, even although the reality is that by simple logic alone, they all do. Nothing new there then ;)

The fact that this all started so long ago and due to an inability for manufacturers to combat this, and that this has now indeed exploded into other brands like LR kinda proves my point.

The simple facts that hopefully anyone can appreciate are this:

Vehicle manufacturers must either produce a vehicle that if all Key fobs are lost is scrap, or must have a way to learn a new Key to it without an existing key being present. Of course all opt for the latter.

EU legislation dictates that the Diagnostic equipment that vehicle manufacturers supply to their dealers (In Land Rovers Case this is the SDD) can also be purchased by absolutely anyone.

Hence in 2011 I used my own SDD to program a new Key bought of EBAY to our 2011 Range Rover Sport test rig which we had no Key for and have since done the same on other vehicles.

If someone has access to origional manufacturers diagnostic equipment, it is of course relatively easy to then produce alternate equipment that does this task.

The reason manufacturers are unable to solve this problem themselves is that although they may change the software that communicates with their Keyless vehicle Module (KVM) to do key learning, akin to changing the combination number to a lock, along with any change they make, they are forced to also supply the new combination number too that can be overcome with a simple software upgrade.
That is why, although LR knew of this problem years ago, even week old vehicles are still easy targets

And that is why, some time ago we developed our pretty ingenious CAN-LOCK device which rufusking mentions. the CAN-LOCK is specifically designed to combat this high tech problem with a high tech solution.

The CAN-LOCK is small enough to easily be secreted almost anywhere in the vehicle and is tapped into the Vehicles CAN BUS.

It constantly monitors absolutely all CAN BUS communication traffic and can easily identify any attempt by any equipment to communicate diagnostically with the vehicles KVM module which it then actively blocks.

It is so effective that it quite literally makes the KVM module diagnostically dissapear to any and all equipment, be it LR's own, ours or any other that trys to communicate with it, making it utterly impossible to even read fault codes from the KVM module, let alone learn a New Key.

using the Blackbox solutions channel on you tube we have provided a couple of videos demonstrating the CAN-LOCK

https://youtu.be/-deKrZBndCU

and on a days old L405

https://youtu.be/3GbAGkx3AoY

The CAN-LOCK does not interfere with the normal operation of keyless entry or ignition in any way. It is totally transparent

In fact I have had one fitted to my own Keyless Vehicle for almost 2 years now without any negative effect or problem.

[SBD4]

Glad you're on our side Collin! Great product!

[Boggs]

maybe I'm missing something but I can't see this product on the Black Box company website
Google search comes up with nothing either, just how to pick a lock with a coke can!

[letherm]

Hiya all

The security loop hole that allows the quick and easy theft of vehicles with Keyless ignition is a subject that I happen to have taken a very keen interest in since mid 2012 when reports of a sharp rise in such equipped BMW thefts became public knowledge.

https://www.google.com/search?q=BMW+easy+theft+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=Easy+BMW+theft

In the face of overwhelming publicity, BMW had to admit the problem with a promise to sort it, which actually they cannot IMHO, and other vehicle manufacturers denied their vehicles had the same security problem, even although the reality is that by simple logic alone, they all do. Nothing new there then ;)

The fact that this all started so long ago and due to an inability for manufacturers to combat this, and that this has now indeed exploded into other brands like LR kinda proves my point.

The simple facts that hopefully anyone can appreciate are this:

Vehicle manufacturers must either produce a vehicle that if all Key fobs are lost is scrap, or must have a way to learn a new Key to it without an existing key being present. Of course all opt for the latter.

EU legislation dictates that the Diagnostic equipment that vehicle manufacturers supply to their dealers (In Land Rovers Case this is the SDD) can also be purchased by absolutely anyone.

Hence in 2011 I used my own SDD to program a new Key bought of EBAY to our 2011 Range Rover Sport test rig which we had no Key for and have since done the same on other vehicles.

If someone has access to origional manufacturers diagnostic equipment, it is of course relatively easy to then produce alternate equipment that does this task.

The reason manufacturers are unable to solve this problem themselves is that although they may change the software that communicates with their Keyless vehicle Module (KVM) to do key learning, akin to changing the combination number to a lock, along with any change they make, they are forced to also supply the new combination number too that can be overcome with a simple software upgrade.
That is why, although LR knew of this problem years ago, even week old vehicles are still easy targets

And that is why, some time ago we developed our pretty ingenious CAN-LOCK device which rufusking mentions. the CAN-LOCK is specifically designed to combat this high tech problem with a high tech solution.

The CAN-LOCK is small enough to easily be secreted almost anywhere in the vehicle and is tapped into the Vehicles CAN BUS.

It constantly monitors absolutely all CAN BUS communication traffic and can easily identify any attempt by any equipment to communicate diagnostically with the vehicles KVM module which it then actively blocks.

It is so effective that it quite literally makes the KVM module diagnostically dissapear to any and all equipment, be it LR's own, ours or any other that trys to communicate with it, making it utterly impossible to even read fault codes from the KVM module, let alone learn a New Key.

The CAN-LOCK does not interfere with the normal operation of keyless entry or ignition in any way. It is totally transparent

In fact I have had one fitted to my own Keyless Vehicle for almost 2 years now without any negative effect or problem.

Hi Colin.

One question.

What happens when you take a car fitted with the Can-Lock into a LR dealer for service. Wouldn't they need this sort of access? Also, will this jeopardise the warranty?

Martin

[Tombie]

This is a solution to what I believe is not an Australian problem.

All the D3/4/RRS that have been stolen that I have seen reported had the thief drive off after retrieving the keys (home invasion).

[letherm]

This is a solution to what I believe is not an Australian problem.

All the D3/4/RRS that have been stolen that I have seen reported had the thief drive off after retrieving the keys (home invasion).

Valid point but I presume "our" thieves will soon enough find out about the problem and start using it to steal LR's etc.

I always believe in Murphy's Law :)

[Tombie]

Valid point but I presume "our" thieves will soon enough find out about the problem and start using it to steal LR's etc.



I always believe in Murphy's Law :)


Market demand...

In the UK - Xenon headlights and D4 tail lights seem to be popular targets.. The door opened, bonnet popped and the lights quickly removed only to appear on eBay soon after!

They don't have the ease of disposal over here...

If they want your vehicle here - it's flat bed, tow away..
Or break in while you sleep and pinch the keys of the kitchen bench...

Hint: don't take keys to bed with you. If someone does break in, it's better they get them and leave. Rather than drop into your room and "coerce" you into handing them over...

[BBS Guy]

Thanks Chaps.

SBD4:
Many Thanks, I think most know we are always on the right side

It is however just a regular part of what we do ourselves that allows us to fully know and understand this vunerability and just how it is being exploited at the technical level.

Of course we could have just stood by, but all my chaps here just love a challenge, and as such, coming up with a clever counter measure in the form of the CAN-LOCK became something of a matter of pride over Profit.

Boggs:
The CAN-LOCK is in the accessories section of the BBS web site shop and also on the Nanocom-Diagnostics.com web shop

letherm:
If a dealer should need acess to the Keyless vehicle module for some reason, then you as the owner and person knowing where the Can Lock is actually fitted can then simply disconnect it before it goes into the dealer.

Regards any warranty aspect, It would be sucicidal for LR to do anything negative in respect of any owner adding any third party security equipment, especially when they cannot prevent this themselves and even the metropolitan police are now publically advising Land Rover owners to add any form of additional security.

I have no idea as to the current or future relevance to Australian aspects of this method of vehicle theft, but as it and the CAN-LOCK got mentioned here on this board, I just thought I should explain what I know and about our CAN-LOCK device, if only for informational purporses.

I have no idea how theives may well get into your vehicle, beyond using a frozen chicken to smash the window in liu of a brick, the RF amplification theory has some merit, but while it would amplify the signal from the Vehicle to the Key, I struggle to understand how a Key that responded in kind would then reach the vehicle receiver based on the distances mentioned.

[Homestar]

Hint: don't take keys to bed with you. If someone does break in, it's better they get them and leave. Rather than drop into your room and "coerce" you into handing them over...

Our dogs sleep in our room so we have protection... Pugs are guard dogs - right? :D

[mikeford]

Surely this problem only exists if you have a proximity type locking system on your vehicle, by that I mean you just have to be near the car and it unlocks itself automatically, you do not have to press the button on the key fob, the same sort of way sitting inside the D4 allows you to start it! I cannot understand how a signal booster would unlock my D4 without me pressing the button. Can someone explain that to me or am I missing something obvious.