Rim Options for D1/2/3/4?

[gavinwibrow]

I have a dilemma in that I plan/hope to be using one of my two vehicles (see footer below) for the big lap, and want to have matching rims/tyres on the tandem caravan - yet to be built, but deposit paid. Would love it to be the RRC if I can satisfy myself re reliability, but suspect it will be the D2a with its new 265 75 16R Scorpions on 8" rims.

I know that my D1/RRC rims do not fit my D2a/P38 studs or vice versa, but thinking ahead for resale options etc for the van, what is the story for D3 and D4? Apart from using larger diameter rims, are the D3/4 centres compatible with D2a/P38? I suspect not, but it might help me make a decision if so.

I did read here somewhere some time ago about D1/D2 stud adapters, but doubt they are legal in AUS?

Let the helpful comments come forth!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DiscoDB]

D3 and 4 rims fit the D2, just need to get spigot adaptor (search eBay) and D3 wheel nuts.

BMW X5 rims also fit the D3 and hence D2, same story need the spigot adaptor to fit to D2, and different wheel nuts again to fit to either.

http://www.wheelfitment.eu is a handy site, let's you look up a vehicle and then lists all the other compatible vehicles that fit.

[mattg]

I figure Gav go with d2 hub on the van then you can fit the d3and d4 rims and have the biggest choice. May not be able to go back to a d2 rim if you request the d3 that said the trailer hub might be the same centre diameter on all 3??

[gavinwibrow]

Many thanks for replies.

DiscoDB - good site thanks. So can I assume spigot adapters are legal?

Pity I could not get standard 6 stud stub axles (for resale ease) and have an adapter for LR 5 stud - I'm assuming such would be highly illegal?

Then again, I guess in the overall scheme of things replacement new brake hubs with the appropriate studs should not be that expensive anyway?

[kelvo]

I've briefly looked into fitting Disco 2 rims to a trailer (I have the wheels but don't have a trailer yet :angel: ) The big issue seems to be the small centre bore on the D2 wheels and the centre of the trailer hub being too big. I think you are also limited to using Ford or Holden bearings, as the parallel bearings make the hub centre way too big.

Some people open up the centre of the D2 wheels to get them to fit, but this seems pointless to me as you still can't use the actual wheels fitted to the Disco on the trailer, and if you fit the opened up wheels to the Disco you're going to potentially shear wheel studs as the centre bore is no longer taking the weight. The only plus is you now have the look of matching wheels on the D2 & trailer.

I have a feeling that Redback on here has managed to do it correctly though. I can't seem to find where I saw that or remember how he did it.

[Rok_Dr]

Steel Discovery 2 rims have a far larger center bore than the alloys and will fit a trailer hub with no problems. I have a set on my trailer with slimline bearing hubs. You'll need a set of tapered face nuts if you want to fit them as a spare on the car.

Discovery 2 stud pattern, PCD and stud size/thread are the same as VE/VF Commodores.

Cheers

Steve

[DiscoDB]

So can I assume spigot adapters are legal?

I suppose the question is, is fitting aftermarket rims illegal? I understand that it is common to use a spigot ring inserted into aftermarket rims to bring the centre ID back to match the hub spigot OD. And a spigot ring pressed over the hub spigot you would not even know it was present. The spigot ring is just to make sure the wheel stays centred.

[Graeme]

Some people open up the centre of the D2 wheels to get them to fit, but this seems pointless to me as you still can't use the actual wheels fitted to the Disco on the trailer, and if you fit the opened up wheels to the Disco you're going to potentially shear wheel studs as the centre bore is no longer taking the weight.Its only the hub cap hole that would need to be enlarged which is not used to centre the rim on the hub, but would need to enlarge all rims to allow swapping either way between the car and trailer/van. Hence its not much of an option.

[DiscoDB]

Its only the hub cap hole that would need to be enlarged which is not used to centre the rim on the hub, but would need to enlarge all rims to allow swapping either way between the car and trailer/van. Hence its not much of an option.

The central hub spigot is not used to centre rims if you have tapered / centring wheel nuts. I believe this is true for steel rims which use a different wheel nut. But when you don't have rims that take tapered wheel nuts to centre the rim, then the hub centre is what keeps the rims centred. Hence need for the spigot ring if using different ID hub set up.

[Graeme]

I was referring to the need to enlarge the hub cap hole, not the hub centering hole.

[gavinwibrow]

OK, so to clarify the question somewhat (cos I'm as usual easily confused) the objective is to have my on order caravan fitted with tandem hubs (12" electric brakes) that will accept D2/P38 alloys, ideally matching my existing 16 x 8 6 spokes (with a 2nd set yet to be obtained), or at worse using my spare set of 16 x 7s.

Seems like it is possible (see link below at #4), unless the electric brake hubs cause an issue.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/trailers-vans-campers/218878-ok-so-im-not-sharpest-tool-shed-but.html

[Graeme]

If the 12" hubs were Defender/RRC pattern and then you fitted RRC to D2 adaptors, the boss may still be too large for the D2/P38 rims. Someone fitted RRC to D2 adaptors but IIRC to 10" parallel hubs. You would need to check the 12" boss OD to see if its greater than the D2 centering hole diameter.

If the D2 rims fit you then have to account for the adjusted offset to determine the required axle length.

PS 12" hubs cannot be drilled for D2 pcd as the bearings are too large.

[MR LR]

The boss (spigot) can be turned down enough to fit D2 rims on parallel bearing hubs without affecting their integrity. But you need a 16mm spacer to bring them out far enough.

Re: legalities of spacers on trailers, it's perfectly legal as far as I can work out. As the rules state that spacers are illegal "unless factory fitment". So if you build or modify the trailer yourself then it's a bit of a loop hole...

[Graeme]

10" brake parallel bearing hubs - yes, I've done it for X5 rims, but not 12" brake hubs.

[p38arover]

I know that my D1/RRC rims do not fit my D2a/P38 studs or vice versa, but thinking ahead for resale options etc for the van, what is the story for D3 and D4? Apart from using larger diameter rims, are the D3/4 centres compatible with D2a/P38? I suspect not, but it might help me make a decision if so.

L322/D3/D4/RRS wheels will bolt straight onto to a D2/P38A IF one uses hubcentic rings and the right wheel nuts.

I've got RRS rims on my P38A.

See, for example, Spigots Allows L322 Disco 3 4 Range Rover Sport Rims TO Range Rover P38 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130913402566?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

[PhilipA]

Really you are limited by what ALKO and the caravan chassis manufacturer offer vs the weight of the caravan.
If the caravan can take 9 inch drums with Holden or Ford bearings AFAIK you could have them drilled in D2/D3/D4 pattern. AFAIR these hubs are rated at 1000kg per axle vs parallel at 1500Kg.
If the caravan needs 10 inch drums and you are limited to parallel bearings because of the weight/chassis manufacturer/ALKO catalogue, you cannot fit D2/D3/D4 alloy wheels because of the large size of the bearing housing vs the size PCD of the wheels. ALKO do offer D1 pattern drums.

Even after the taper of the bearing housing it is bigger at the end cap than the wheel centre hole. This is slightly better on a D3/D4 rim but there is no way a D3/D4 rim will fit against the drum.
As on previous threads I have drilled my parallel hubs as D1 and used ( expensive) adapters to fit D2 rims and even then I had to "machine" the inside of the hub adapter to allow the adaptor to fit over the cap of the parallel hubs. The adapters came with D3 hub centring so I had to machine the hub centre ring off the adapters to fit D2 wheels.
Spacers/adaptors are only illegal if they are retro fitted . If fitted by the manufacturer they are legal. Lots of Porsches have spacers.
So good luck in convincing the caravan Chassis manufacturer to to offer D1 drums with D3 adapters if parallel bearings are the only ones suitable. The adapters are about 30MM thick or so but the difference in wheel offset between a D1 and D3 wheel brings the track increase down to about 15-20MM so this would have to be planned for if going that route.
Regards Philip A

[Redback]

Really you are limited by what ALKO and the caravan chassis manufacturer offer vs the weight of the caravan.
If the caravan can take 9 inch drums with Holden or Ford bearings AFAIK you could have them drilled in D2/D3/D4 pattern. AFAIR these hubs are rated at 1000kg per axle vs parallel at 1500Kg.
If the caravan needs 10 inch drums and you are limited to parallel bearings because of the weight/chassis manufacturer/ALKO catalogue, you cannot fit D2/D3/D4 alloy wheels because of the large size of the bearing housing vs the size PCD of the wheels. ALKO do offer D1 pattern drums.

Even after the taper of the bearing housing it is bigger at the end cap than the wheel centre hole. This is slightly better on a D3/D4 rim but there is no way a D3/D4 rim will fit against the drum.
As on previous threads I have drilled my parallel hubs as D1 and used ( expensive) adapters to fit D2 rims and even then I had to "machine" the inside of the hub adapter to allow the adaptor to fit over the cap of the parallel hubs. The adapters came with D3 hub centring so I had to machine the hub centre ring off the adapters to fit D2 wheels.
Spacers/adaptors are only illegal if they are retro fitted . If fitted by the manufacturer they are legal. Lots of Porsches have spacers.
So good luck in convincing the caravan Chassis manufacturer to to offer D1 drums with D3 adapters if parallel bearings are the only ones suitable. The adapters are about 30MM thick or so but the difference in wheel offset between a D1 and D3 wheel brings the track increase down to about 15-20MM so this would have to be planned for if going that route.
Regards Philip A

X2, what Phillip says, been there done that myself, I had D2/P38 on my camper with the D2 and BMW X5 rims on my camper with the D4, tried to fit D3 rims to them when I managed to score 3 extra D3 rims, but they won't fit because the D3/4 rims are tapered, so I went to steel rims, I can use the steel rims on the car in an emergency, if I need too, I was hoping if I went to 10" braked hubs, the X5 rims would just fit without buggarising around, but alas no, so when I do go electric brakes, the steel rims will do.

Baz.

[Graeme]

10" drums are available in the SL/LM bearing set as well as the parallel bearing set and are a lot more common than 9" drums.

[MR LR]

X2, what Phillip says, been there done that myself, I had D2/P38 on my camper with the D2 and BMW X5 rims on my camper with the D4, tried to fit D3 rims to them when I managed to score 3 extra D3 rims, but they won't fit because the D3/4 rims are tapered, so I went to steel rims, I can use the steel rims on the car in an emergency, if I need too, I was hoping if I went to 10" braked hubs, the X5 rims would just fit without buggarising around, but alas no, so when I do go electric brakes, the steel rims will do.

Baz.
12mm spacer and appropriately longer studs and they'll fit.

Pm me if you want someone to do it, I know a guy... (not me)