Series IIA Lucas wipers - here's a puzzle

[damiane]

So I'm driving this 1970 Series IIA SWB back from the Peninsula (in Vic) to the burbs and it's raining so I turn on the wipers. Simple switch; "Off" or "On". Wipers working away in sequence moving some of the water but slapping the window frame 'tap' wipe 'tap' wipe 'tap'; very irritating. Rain stops so I turn off the wipers. A little while later a few more drops of rain. I turn on the wipers and after a few wipes they stop . . . . . . . . .vertically!!!! and no amount of turning the witch on and off reactivates the wipers. They remain upright in the middle of the windscreens. Fortunately the rain gives up anyway.

Next day I pull the panel of the dash to reveal this

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/390.jpg

I have already unplugged the motor at this point.

First question is: am I getting power to the motor? But wait!! The schematic for this Series shows TWO wires for a one-speed motor but this plug has four wires (including the earth).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/391.jpg

This must be a two-speed motor. Sure enough the Series III schematic matches the wire colours on the wires in the plug to the motor. But the switch is not a three-position switch . . . . Remember . . . . . 'On' or 'Off'.

So what is going on? Has anyone struck this before?

Should I order a three position switch?

Land Rover surely wouldn't use a four wire plug into a one-speed motor. Indeed Lucas wouldn't build a motor with a four wire plug if it was only a one-speed motor would it?

I realize all Series landies changed incrementally but this is baffling.

[ezyrama]

They probably used the same wiring on all wipers and only wired up for either one or two speeds depending on the car. If it is a two speed motor, try connecting up the 2nd speed. I have one of each motors 1speed on Ralph and a spare 2 speed motor, both plugs are the same


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[Homestar]

Does look and sound like a 2 speed wiper and wiring. Could have been done during a resto - the PO may have needed to replace the switch and had a single speed unit kicking around or could be like other stuff in series LR's and during a change to new parts they ran out of single speed wiring looms before running out of single speed switches. Check the switch end - what's the wiring look like in there?

Sounds like the excuse I need to come and have a look first hand. :)

[damiane]

They probably used the same wiring on all wipers and only wired up for either one or two speeds depending on the car. If it is a two speed motor, try connecting up the 2nd speed. I have one of each motors 1speed on Ralph and a spare 2 speed motor, both plugs are the same


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Thanks ezy

Grief! Really? What were they smoking at the Land Rover assembly plant? I will have a close look in the morning now that I have got wire and bulldog clamp to establish a solid earth.

If it is a two-speed motor I'm clearly going to need a two-speed switch. Incidentally I don't see a control for the washers? Where should that be?

regards

Damian

[damiane]

Does look and sound like a 2 speed wiper and wiring. Could have been done during a resto - the PO may have needed to replace the switch and had a single speed unit kicking around or could be like other stuff in series LR's and during a change to new parts they ran out of single speed wiring looms before running out of single speed switches. Check the switch end - what's the wiring look like in there?

Sounds like the excuse I need to come and have a look first hand. :)

I'll take a pic tomorrow Gav. My recollection is that the relevant terminals were present in the plastic receiver but I might be wrong. Am I right in thinking that wipers may have stalled in vertical position because of hardened grease rather than the motor having "given up"? It has been sitting garaged for a long time.

Excellent excuse I would suggest.

Damian

[Homestar]

A good clean out and regrease of the motor would be a good start. The bronze bearing in the back may be quite stiff as well which won't help. Did it blow a fuse? Hi current draw due to it stalling may - and probably should have done.

I'll see if I can fit in a visit next week sometime. :)

[rovers4]

Hi,
On my IIA it was a push plunger mounted on the lower lh corner of the central instrument cluster. i.e. a physical hand pump in the water line.

Yes, they were an ever evolving migration from model to model.

And mine had just one speed. I later fitted an intermittent kit. It worked well.

rovers4

[damiane]

A good clean out and regrease of the motor would be a good start. The bronze bearing in the back may be quite stiff as well which won't help. Did it blow a fuse? Hi current draw due to it stalling may - and probably should have done.

I'll see if I can fit in a visit next week sometime. :)

I'll strip it tomorrow AND check the fuse (embarrassed I haven't done this but I thought since everything else was working and given the few fuses that support everything else it was probably not just a fuse). Shall be a right dill if that's the problem :(

[Homestar]

Chances are you're right with the fuse - if one had blown you probably would have stopped. :D

Keep us posted.

[schuy1]

1 wire will be power for the auto parking (yes, they do have it!) May be there is 2 wires for that? Been a while since I had to play with wiper wiring!

[clubagreenie]

You're questioning bizzare electrics AND Lucas in the same sentence?

My old mans S3 had elec washers, small chrome hex nut and black button?

As for wiring, black will be earth (of course), green power to motor, G/R should be either speed out to switch, all by memory. Speed is alternated by supplying power to the motor and feeding out to one of two different diameter rings on the large gear. Parking is achieve by the gap in the ring.

All from memory of resto on my S2 with S3 motor back in the 80's.

[damiane]

You're questioning bizzare electrics AND Lucas in the same sentence?

My old mans S3 had elec washers, small chrome hex nut and black button?

As for wiring, black will be earth (of course), green power to motor, G/R should be either speed out to switch, all by memory. Speed is alternated by supplying power to the motor and feeding out to one of two different diameter rings on the large gear. Parking is achieve by the gap in the ring.

All from memory of resto on my S2 with S3 motor back in the 80's.

But not with just a two position switch. Wouldn't you need at least a three position switch?

[damiane]

Only seems to be one fuse for everything. Gotta love the Poms idea of electrics. Don't know why I would be surprised after re-building and driving Cooper S rally cars in the 70's. How did they ever win the war? How did Lancasters even get off the ground let alone reach Germany?

[clubagreenie]

Yes. Or just decide which speed you want to use. As may be the case if this is a 2 speed unit

[S3ute]

My old mans S3 had elec washers, small chrome hex nut and black button?



Hello from Brisbane.

The later S2A models also had this switch in the centre top of the instrument panel. The nozzle was in the centre of the bonnet and along with the washer bottle was likely to have been an Australia-only arrangement parts-wise.

Some people have suggested that their older S2As had a push plunger pump at the bottom of the dash. This may have been an aftermarket fitment rather than factory fitted. Before this stuff (washers, seatbelts, heaters) became mandatory it was not uncommon to fit aftermarket stuff sourced from accessory places like Repco.

Cheers,

[schuy1]

Regarding parking, I have had alook and there is a points like arrangement in the plug housing that is operated by a plastic pin activated from a knob on the edge of the drive wheel. If that makes sense? If you remove the plastic cover just below the plug receptical all will be clear ☺
Cheers Scott

[dandlandyman]

That's the single-speed with self-park wiring set-up. The later two-speed set-up has five wires - earth, self-park, permanent power, high and low. IIRC the extra wire is green with blue trace. Self-park is the brown/green wire. Permanent-power is green. Which leaves green/red as power on.

The wiper switch works totally differently too. The early square-motor switch turns the earth on and off, the later one turns the power on. I didn't use the rotary switch when I fitted two-speed wipers to my 2A, I modified a headlight switch (can't remember exactly how but there was an extra contact to fit and a wire looped from one terminal to another). Have a look at a Series3 or even Defender wiring diagram for confirmation of colours etc.