Do I really not need to service my Puma for 20,000km?

[Jeff]

Have I read the book correctly? Do people sneak in a service or two earlier?

Jeff

:rocket:

[Rurover]

Jeff,

The local dealer near me (Mac Land Rover at Millicent) does my warranty services every 10,000 km.
Once it's out of warranty, I'm happy to continue with that regime.
May be a bit more expensive in time & consumables, but you get to check everything twice as often and it's worth the extra cost for the peace of mind IMHO.

Alan

[noyakfat]

I have MY14 110 wagon. I got them to do a general check-over at about 1,500 km (just to see everything was going ok from a new vehicle perspective, and then I put it through the workshop at 10,000km for a service.

Just had my first scheduled service (20k) a few weeks ago. All good :)

I plan on keeping up with the 10,000km intervals for oil/filter changes.

Cheers,
Nige

[Grappler]

The dealer will probably send you a reminder at 6 months suggesting an intermediate service

I did my own intermediate oil services. Just use oil to the exact specification, and a genuine filter and plug. If you have a warranty issue with the motor you need proof the service items are proper spec.

Heaps of info on the forum about alternatives, eg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/2346900-post6.html

[CraigE]

Personally I would be doing a workshop service every 10,000kms and a home engine oil change every 5000kms. Oil is cheap protection. I do my TD5 every 5000kms regardless and 10,000kms change centrifuge filter and main oil filter. 20,000kms IMHO is too long.

[AndyG]

I have MY14 110 wagon. I got them to do a general check-over at about 1,500 km (just to see everything was going ok from a new vehicle perspective, and then I put it through the workshop at 10,000km for a service.

Just had my first scheduled service (20k) a few weeks ago. All good :)

I plan on keeping up with the 10,000km intervals for oil/filter changes.

Cheers,
Nige

Can i ask how much was the 20K ?
I had an indy do a change at 5,000 after my run down the Birdsville track, and check underneath. i will get the dealer to do the K20 & the indy the intermediate, so there are two sets of eyes on it.

[Jeff]

Can i ask how much was the 20K ?


I scammed free servicing, so I hope nothing.

Jeff

:rocket:

[skc]

Personally I would be doing a workshop service every 10,000kms and a home engine oil change every 5000kms. Oil is cheap protection. I do my TD5 every 5000kms regardless and 10,000kms change centrifuge filter and main oil filter. 20,000kms IMHO is too long.

I don't agree. Testing your oil is cheap protection; unless it has had the appropriate amount of use, changing it is an absolute waste of time, as if you have a problem, you are not addressing the root cause.

Suggest that next time you intend to change your oil that you take some and have it analysed first. Get them to check for fuel dilution / glycol / water / soot / neutralisation / Nitration / etc.

Oil and metallurgy technology has progressed a massive amount in the past 10 to 15 years, so don't waste it!

[Pickles2]

Oils these days are very good.
We'll be doing Gracie yearly or 20K whichever comes first, so it'll probably be yearly.
Pickles.

[PAT303]

I don't agree. Testing your oil is cheap protection; unless it has had the appropriate amount of use, changing it is an absolute waste of time, as if you have a problem, you are not addressing the root cause.

Suggest that next time you intend to change your oil that you take some and have it analysed first. Get them to check for fuel dilution / glycol / water / soot / neutralisation / Nitration / etc.

Oil and metallurgy technology has progressed a massive amount in the past 10 to 15 years, so don't waste it!

Or you could stop making a mountain out of a mole hill and simply change the oil and filter every 10K. Pat

[Grappler]

I don't agree. Testing your oil is cheap protection; unless it has had the appropriate amount of use, changing it is an absolute waste of time, as if you have a problem, you are not addressing the root cause.

Suggest that next time you intend to change your oil that you take some and have it analysed first. Get them to check for fuel dilution / glycol / water / soot / neutralisation / Nitration / etc.

Oil and metallurgy technology has progressed a massive amount in the past 10 to 15 years, so don't waste it!

Here is a quote direct from an oil testing laboratory service
"This analysis report is dependent upon the accurate completion of the sample information form and correct sampling techniques as advised. The analysis is
intended as an aid only in predicting mechanical wear and should not be regarded as a substitute for proper servicing or mechanical inspection. The company
does not accept any liability whatsoever in respect of any loss or damage (including loss of profits, economic or other consequential loss or damage) however
caused which may arise directly, or indirectly, as a result of the matters referred to in this analysis report."

[noyakfat]

Can i ask how much was the 20K ?
I had an indy do a change at 5,000 after my run down the Birdsville track, and check underneath. i will get the dealer to do the K20 & the indy the intermediate, so there are two sets of eyes on it.

I have free scheduled services for 3 years, but the service amount came to $617.90 in total, including GST. That included $91.80 for oil, $11.36 for a drain plug, $33.97 for an oil filter, $55 for consumables (which appeared to be filter disposal, liquid waste and environment levy charge, greases, oil absorption materials and "fluid top up"), $33.60 for a tyre rotation and $336 for the 20,000 km service.

Cheers,
Nige

[cafe latte]

My 2c, I always do 5k oil changes on my cars, but one time with me with a bad back and a couple of long distance shooting comps I did not realize I had clocked up 30,000km between changes!
Annoyed with myself I changed the oil and it was actually lumpy and so black it stained your hands with carbon. It was my Nissan which survived the incident maybe as it has two oil filters, but IMO if oil becomes lumpy custard in 30,000km 20,00km is also far far too long 10,000km max for a diesel.
Chris.

[PAT303]

We need one of the smiley face things that show a bloke smacking his head against a brick wall.You cannot compare indirect injection engines to a direct injection,unit injection or common rail injection engines.The TD42,2H,1HZ,3L,5L etc etc etc all need 5K changes because they carbon up like crazy,to the well know point of spinning bearings,don't put any Land Rover engine from the Tdi onwards in that class.Modern diesel engines are much cleaner burning than engines 20 years ago,you blokes need to stop thinking in the past. Pat

[jackdef90]

As the manual says 20 k oil change unless used in arduous conditions then change at 10k if that is the case, arduous conditions are frequent start stop, idling /traffic and offroad use.
I think most people would come under the category of arduous conditions in some way.
Although I don't think the engines gonna suffer if you wait it out till 20k or LR would have specified that as the service intervals.

I reckon Lab testing is way overkill for a car motor, that's for medium and slow speed marine engines, I reckon the only test that would be worthwhile would be a viscosity race , that will tell you a lot if things and is very simple to do yourself.

[cafe latte]

We need one of the smiley face things that show a bloke smacking his head against a brick wall.You cannot compare indirect injection engines to a direct injection,unit injection or common rail injection engines.The TD42,2H,1HZ,3L,5L etc etc etc all need 5K changes because they carbon up like crazy,to the well know point of spinning bearings,don't put any Land Rover engine from the Tdi onwards in that class.Modern diesel engines are much cleaner burning than engines 20 years ago,you blokes need to stop thinking in the past. Pat
That might be so, but even on the petrol new Quad bikes on the farm the oil goes thin and brown quickly, I find it hard to believe 20,000 is fine in a diesel, I dont care how clean it is, it is not going to be as clean as a petrol and I would not leave a petrol engine that long never mind a diesel except my stuff up... :)
Chris

[Pickles2]

That might be so, but even on the petrol new Quad bikes on the farm the oil goes thin and brown quickly, I find it hard to believe 20,000 is fine in a diesel, I dont care how clean it is, it is not going to be as clean as a petrol and I would not leave a petrol engine that long never mind a diesel except my stuff up... :)
Chris
I am not a mechanic & I'm not an expert.
However I have heard that modern oils going "brown" is what they are supposed to do, as they are keeping all the rubbish in the engine in suspension, so that when you change your oil, this rubbish will drain out, rather than being left in the engine?
Pickles.

[cafe latte]

I am sure modern diesel engines are cleaner, but I would be interested to see a sample of oil out of a Puma diesel after 20,000km.
Yes it is correct engine oil have additives to keep solids in suspension this is normal for oils used with a filter. It is a topic I have looked into quite a bit looking for hifi turntable oils and for the reason of the detergents motor oils were not suitable. Anyway I digress 20,000km is a long time and the oil filters will block quicker than you think when they do the relief spring lets the oil pass without passing through the filter. Dropping the oil is cheap as are filters engines are not, I cant see why anyone would not increase the service intervals. Also remember this is Australia not the UK. Engine get a much harder time in extreme heat, and it is a lot more dusty too. This should also be considered when thinking about service intervals.
Chris

[PAT303]

We need to get away from ''this is Australia and we do it tough'' BS.An engine in the UK,Africa,middle east etc deals with just as much as they do here,during winter more in fact,also again don't compare a 4wd engine to something totally unrelated like one in a quad bike.Lastly oil manufactures,engine manufactures spend lots of time and money on their products,I think Penrite,Castrol,Fuchs etc know more about oil than we do,just use the recommended oil from whatever brand you prefer and change at 10,000km's,really this is not rocket science. Pat

[cafe latte]

We need to get away from ''this is Australia and we do it tough'' BS.An engine in the UK,Africa,middle east etc deals with just as much as they do here,during winter more in fact,also again don't compare a 4wd engine to something totally unrelated like one in a quad bike.Lastly oil manufactures,engine manufactures spend lots of time and money on their products,I think Penrite,Castrol,Fuchs etc know more about oil than we do,just use the recommended oil from whatever brand you prefer and change at 10,000km's,really this is not rocket science. Pat

Not BS, I was not talking about Africa, but in the UK engines will not drive in such hot dusty conditions, many will not go off road even. The engine itself might not like British cold starts, I used to hate the frosty morning too, but the oil I feel will have a harder time here with thermal stresses and more dust, air filters will never stop everything. How many British roads are unsealed and those that are are for sure not dusty.
Put simply will there be no acids or particles in the oil at 20,00km? Answer of course there will be, lots.
Second question will there be less particles and acids at 10,000km?
Of course, probably half the amount or less.
So will the engine suffer less wear changing the oil more often?
Answer yes I refer to the first two questions..
Chris

[CraigE]

I agree in part and disagree in part. I am certainly not saying you are wrong, just different perspectives.
Oil testing can help track down problems and has its place but not warranted or easily available in most cases unless you suspect an issue. If you are changing regularly the oil testing should not even be required. I see the point on very hardworking or long haul engines and occasionally on vehicles like ours.
Changing the oil every 5000kms is not a waste of time as it keeps the oil in good nic and doing the job it should. For the cost of around $60 every 3 - 6 months or so I will keep up the regime and oils and filters at 10,000kms. Maybe different if you are paying a workshop to do it. I have found that at around 5000kms the oil starts to discolour and break down slightly, but is still very useable after testing, so is not a big deal if you miss one or do an extra couple of thousand kms. At 10000kms oil becomes quite noticeably darker and is vey clear it is starting to break down (moreso degradation from heat rather than contaminants). At 20000kms oil is trashed completely. This is what the LR service schedule was and had this tested when I first got the vehicle. All diesel mechanics I have discussed this with believe 20,000kms is way too much even for light driving, this includes LR specialists who don't agree with the 20,000kms interval, but wont publically say this, but will in private and should be done at a minimum of 10,000kms or there abouts as it gives you a buffer if you go over. They also generally recommend 5000km changes if you do any of the following: Tow heavy loads, Use LR frequently, Run in hot condition, Run in dusty conditions, Have worked hard in mud or sand. Which most of us do.
Maybe not for everyone and 10000kms is the minimum I would do, but for peace of mind I do around 5000kms and filters at 10000kms. Open a filter up that has done 20k, 10k and 5k and see the difference very clearly.
It also depends what oil you use, mineral, semi synthetic, full synthetic, race synthetic. I use Penrite HPR-15 Diesel.
It mainly comes down to personal preference.


When I got my TD5 it was obvious that the previous owner was only doing the recommended servicing as per the log book using Castrol I think. When I did some work on the engine after owning it for about 18 months I did notice a lot of sludge build up in places. Changed to Penrite HPR-15 and over the next 12 months this cleaned the engine. I noticed sludge coming out in oil changes. I did an inspection at around 12 months and the sludge had completely gone. A few years later we pulled the engine out for clutch and minor engine work and when stripping down were very impressed with how clean and goo condition the internals actually were.





I don't agree. Testing your oil is cheap protection; unless it has had the appropriate amount of use, changing it is an absolute waste of time, as if you have a problem, you are not addressing the root cause.

Suggest that next time you intend to change your oil that you take some and have it analysed first. Get them to check for fuel dilution / glycol / water / soot / neutralisation / Nitration / etc.

Oil and metallurgy technology has progressed a massive amount in the past 10 to 15 years, so don't waste it!

[CraigE]

And for Jeff.
Talk to your normal servicing agent or workshop. They are generally fine with you doing intermediate oil changes at home as this does not void warranty as long as you keep up the scheduled servicing. Whether you do 10k or 5k would be your personal preference, but IMHO 20k is too long. I saved my warranty in one vehicle when 1000kms over for servicing they stated I had voided my warranty on the engine, but was able to substantiate that I had been conducting intermediate servicing and oil changes.
There are now some cars saying 40,000km intervals and with BMW transmissions and others sealed for life, but what is life?

[PAT303]

I've been doing 10K changes with my Tdi for 17 years,when I did a valve set a few months back I could see the casting marks on the head,sludge,whats that?. Pat

[skc]

Put simply will there be no acids or particles in the oil at 20,00km? Answer of course there will be, lots.
Second question will there be less particles and acids at 10,000km?
Of course, probably half the amount or less.
So will the engine suffer less wear changing the oil more often?
Answer yes I refer to the first two questions..
Chris

Chris, it is clearly not about absolutes; it is about finding the point of asymptotic cost benefit. By your logic, we should change our oil every time we fill up with fuel; there will be less contamination and ergo less wear - must be better then, right?

[goingbush]

The service intervals on my 2013 Iveco Daily 4x4 are 40,000km

It has a 3.0 L CRD engine.

They do not want tho see the truck before that, no 1500km , no 5000km first service.
(Thats also 40.000km between king pin greasing- a job that needs doing every 5000km on this truck)

However for "Off Road" or "Heavy Duty" use they recommend halving the service intervals to 20,000 km

I wholeheartedly disagree with this. For the first 40.000km I was adhering to Iveco policy but I did do a first oil /filter change at 5000 km myself. Oil was black after 500km .

After some discussion with the dealers It has been suggested for my use 10,000km services are more appropriate.

Since then I have purchased the diagnostic interface that allows me to self service. and have been doing 10,000 km oil changes . Now even 5000km past my last service the oil is still translucent brown.

If you want to keep your vehicle long term, and not just for the life of the warranty I'd suggest 10,000km services.

[cafe latte]

Chris, it is clearly not about absolutes; it is about finding the point of asymptotic cost benefit. By your logic, we should change our oil every time we fill up with fuel; there will be less contamination and ergo less wear - must be better then, right?
No I did not say that, but oil after 20,000km has had it totally especially in hot climates and the oil will be really bad if any off roading or towing had been done. The tipping point in my opinion is when the heat of the motor starts to break down the oil and the oil stops doing its job properly which is before 20,000km.
For the price of an oil change every 10,000km especially if you do it yourself why would anyone want dirty thin oil going round the engine their expensive pride and joy?
Chris

[bsperka]

No I did not say that, but oil after 20,000km has had it totally especially in hot climates and the oil will be really bad if any off roading or towing had been done. The tipping point in my opinion is when the heat of the motor starts to break down the oil and the oil stops doing its job properly which is before 20,000km.
For the price of an oil change every 10,000km especially if you do it yourself why would anyone want dirty thin oil going round the engine their expensive pride and joy?
Chris

IIRC modern synthetic oils don't break down. Additives may get used up though.

[PAT303]

No I did not say that, but oil after 20,000km has had it totally especially in hot climates and the oil will be really bad if any off roading or towing had been done. The tipping point in my opinion is when the heat of the motor starts to break down the oil and the oil stops doing its job properly which is before 20,000km.
For the price of an oil change every 10,000km especially if you do it yourself why would anyone want dirty thin oil going round the engine their expensive pride and joy?
Chris

Oil doesn't wear out or break down unless it's been put under severe conditions,nothing you would do in your defender would meet this condition.You should not worry about the motor,instead be very pedantic about the gearbox/transfer oil,they are the ones that work the hardest. Pat

[cafe latte]

Oil doesn't wear out or break down unless it's been put under severe conditions,nothing you would do in your defender would meet this condition.You should not worry about the motor,instead be very pedantic about the gearbox/transfer oil,they are the ones that work the hardest. Pat

Oil does actually change with time and use and in the engine it also get a lot of crud in it with use. Do what you want, but I will keep changing my oils regularly, well before 20K
Chris

[schuy1]

Been doing 10000km changes on the defender since Igot it new in 1997. Always used Castrol (Tection Global) and now at 332000kms the oil stays clean on the dip until about 4500km. Now with the disco td5 (Castrol Edge 5-30 ) Im doing the 10000km changes only because I do a lot of gravel road.
The oil is still clean enough to see the dipstick marks. Use recommended oils and filters and you cant go wrong. Remember, the manufacturer has gone to a lot of testing to get the best settings,not just pulled them out of a hat!
Cheers Scott

[cafe latte]

Been doing 10000km changes on the defender since Igot it new in 1997. Always used Castrol (Tection Global) and now at 332000kms the oil stays clean on the dip until about 4500km. Now with the disco td5 (Castrol Edge 5-30 ) Im doing the 10000km changes only because I do a lot of gravel road.
The oil is still clean enough to see the dipstick marks. Use recommended oils and filters and you cant go wrong. Remember, the manufacturer has gone to a lot of testing to get the best settings,not just pulled them out of a hat!
Cheers Scott
Yes but the company selling the car does not have your best interest at heart sadly. They want to make money, if others are doing a 20k oil change then it is a selling point that they do too. Also your engine lasing a very long time is not at the top of the car manufacture's priorities, selling you the nest model is much more important today.
Chris
Edit I have a Toyotal 60 series with over 600,000km on it, yes it is slow, but I have spent almost nothing on it over the years, this does not make good business sense.

[Didge]

Well this is a rather emotional thread, isn't it?!
I let a 3.0L petrol motor in a VR commodore go for 20,000 oil changes a number of times and it went gluggy and lumpy and cost me $4000 for a replacement motor so read into that what you will, but as PAT303 said the g/box, t/ case and diffs are the parts so often overlooked and hence susceptible to damage.
The reduced servicing periods are also to promote reduced running costs as cafe latte has intimated. I made the offhand comment to my mechanic that maybe I should trade in the old defender for a late model D3. His answers was blunt and curt - "I wouldn't" Why I asked? "because the newer D3/4's have gearboxes etc that apparently say they don't require oil changes, so they often aren't serviced which means the unsuspecting new owner may be up for a reco gbox with their new pride and joy - everything needs lubrication and servicing (I keep telling the missus that :) )

QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS - Why would you need to be changing the oil more often if you're doing off road driving? Is that referring to lots of high revving, low range driving or just fire trails, up the Cape peninsular development road type of stuff?
cheers gerald

[PAT303]

You don't need to change the oil more,it's got nothing to do with how you use it,it's got everything to with what type of motor it is.On this thread all we have had is people comparing Euro 5-6 engines to 30 year old models,quad bike engines,petrol even though the thread is about diesel and pointless oil sampling,my mate down the pub ZZZZzzzz.All LR diesel engines post Tdi need 10k changes,if you believe 5k changes will make your post Tdi LR diesel engine last longer continue living your fantasy but you are wrong.If you regulary tow,carry heavy loads or work in high ambient temps change to higher quality drive train oils or change them earlier,the diesel motors fitted to our post Tdi LR's do not need less than 10k changes in the same situation,do a search,overheating is the killer,not dirty oil,look their for longevity if engine life is your goal. Pat

[cafe latte]

You don't need to change the oil more,it's got nothing to do with how you use it,it's got everything to with what type of motor it is.On this thread all we have had is people comparing Euro 5-6 engines to 30 year old models,quad bike engines,petrol even though the thread is about diesel and pointless oil sampling,my mate down the pub ZZZZzzzz.All LR diesel engines post Tdi need 10k changes,if you believe 5k changes will make your post Tdi LR diesel engine last longer continue living your fantasy but you are wrong.If you regulary tow,carry heavy loads or work in high ambient temps change to higher quality drive train oils or change them earlier,the diesel motors fitted to our post Tdi LR's do not need less than 10k changes in the same situation,do a search,overheating is the killer,not dirty oil,look their for longevity if engine life is your goal. Pat
Yes Pat and here in Aus most of us live in high ambient temps so the oil will need changing more often and 20,000km is just far too long no mater how new the car is especially here in Aus. Each time the engine fires no matter how old or new the engine is contaminants get in the oil, the older the oil the more there are so both heat and contaminants are a factor. Engines are basically the same as they always were under the plastic covers, yes newer engines are a bit more efficient and a bit cleaner but there is no new magic technology to keep the oil clean.
Chris

[Sitec]

Not BS.. In the UK engines will not drive in such hot dusty conditions, many will not go off road even. The engine itself might not like British cold starts, I used to hate the frosty morning too, but the oil I feel will have a harder time here with thermal stresses and more dust, air filters will never stop everything.

Diesels run better when hot. Having moved from the UK to here, I've noticed everything is at running temp a lot quicker. The most wear (and that means lots of fine bits ending up in oils and filters) occurs from cold start up.. I have bought one vehicle over with me.. It has over 400000kms on it. It used to struggle to start in UK winters, filling the yard with smoke, running rough and taking an age to warm up, using oil as it did.. Since being here, it always starts, never smokes, rarely needs glow plugs and does not use oil between changes... Its all designed to run at working temp, and that happens a lot quicker here, so IMO its not BS. Granted, if you're traveling up the Canning you have dust to think about, but otherwise, I wouldn't worry to much!!

[Rurover]

The service intervals on my 2013 Iveco Daily 4x4 are 40,000km

It has a 3.0 L CRD engine.

Since then I have purchased the diagnostic interface that allows me to self service. and have been doing 10,000 km oil changes . Now even 5000km past my last service the oil is still translucent brown.

If you want to keep your vehicle long term, and not just for the life of the warranty I'd suggest 10,000km services.

I'm interested in learning more about this "diagnostic interface".
How does it work, how easy is it to install, what does it cost and can I get one for a Defender?
Thanks.

Alan

[Pickles2]

Well this is a rather emotional thread, isn't it?!
I let a 3.0L petrol motor in a VR commodore go for 20,000 oil changes a number of times and it went gluggy and lumpy and cost me $4000 for a replacement motor so read into that what you will, but as PAT303 said the g/box, t/ case and diffs are the parts so often overlooked and hence susceptible to damage.
The reduced servicing periods are also to promote reduced running costs as cafe latte has intimated. I made the offhand comment to my mechanic that maybe I should trade in the old defender for a late model D3. His answers was blunt and curt - "I wouldn't" Why I asked? "because the newer D3/4's have gearboxes etc that apparently say they don't require oil changes, so they often aren't serviced which means the unsuspecting new owner may be up for a reco gbox with their new pride and joy - everything needs lubrication and servicing (I keep telling the missus that :) )

QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS - Why would you need to be changing the oil more often if you're doing off road driving? Is that referring to lots of high revving, low range driving or just fire trails, up the Cape peninsular development road type of stuff?
cheers gerald
"3.0L petrol motor"...... in a VR?!!..What sort of engine was that?
Pickles.

[AndyG]

[QUOTE=
QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS - Why would you need to be changing the oil more often if you're doing off road driving? Is that referring to lots of high revving, low range driving or just fire trails, up the Cape peninsular development road type of stuff?
cheers gerald[/QUOTE]

Presumably more chance of ingesting more dust, water, koalas, unusual engine/transmission loads, vibrations etc that you would driving around town or up the Hume

[Artie]

I do engine Oil and filter every 5000k, and complete fluids and filter change every 10000k. To many people forget about all the other stuff diff's tranny prop shafts swivel pin housing. even mechanics how do you know there doing everything.
Ohh and radiator flush brakes and clutch :P maybe i will buy shares in Penrite get some of my money back.

[Tombie]

The primary question one must ask..

How long are you really going to keep the vehicle..

I see an enormous amount of people on here who service far more than log book requirements and then change vehicle every 3-4 years...


My view only, I will service as oil analysis determines and a little more so when the vehicle has been pushed hard.

As for arduous conditions being described as dirt/dusty roads - unless you're eating someone else's dust then the road surface make no difference to vehicle use (except shocks etc) - it certainly doesn't increase engine wear..

Feel free to throw copious amounts of oil and cash into the lubrication systems if you feel the need, you will find very little benefit to be had, however, if it helps you feel good about your vehicle and provides a sense of peace of mind, then maybe it holds real value.

Cheers

[goingbush]

The primary question one must ask..

How long are you really going to keep the vehicle..

I see an enormous amount of people on here who service far more than log book requirements and then change vehicle every 3-4 years...

agreed, if you change vehicle often, just do book scheduled maintenance and let warranty take care of issues.




As for arduous conditions being described as dirt/dusty roads - unless you're eating someone else's dust then the road surface make no difference to vehicle use (except shocks etc) - it certainly doesn't increase engine wear..

absolutely agree - infact my aircleaner is fresher after 10,000km of outback use than 5000km in the city . I'm a lone traveller and never go in convoy - tag along etc. Stop / start driving and short runs are harder on a vehicle than outback driving.

I don't have a Puma, not even a LR, but the same principals apply. The only thing that needs more attention on rough roads are the king pin greasing. (Not Applicable to LR ) so Iveco want 20k servicing rather than 40k . Interestingly the Bremach T-Rex Maintenance guide (similar Italian 4x4 with same running gear) calls for Daily king Pin greasing in heavy duty off road conditions, so the Iveco philosophy is a bit pointless.




Feel free to throw copious amounts of oil and cash into the lubrication systems if you feel the need, you will find very little benefit to be had, however, if it helps you feel good about your vehicle and provides a sense of peace of mind, then maybe it holds real value.

Cheers

If you have to struggle to scrape together $ 100,000 hard earned on a vehicle, that is going to be a once in a lifetime purchase then I don't consider a more thorough maintenance regime to be a waste of oil and cash. IMO The long service intervals are not good for a vehicles longevity .

[goingbush]

I'm interested in learning more about this "diagnostic interface".
How does it work, how easy is it to install, what does it cost and can I get one for a Defender?
Thanks.

Alan

You are in need of a Nanocom, about $500 for a Defender , you plug it into the OBD2 port . interrogates ECU for fault finding etc. There are other active threads on it here.

Unfortunatly the only Nanocom type interface tool for Iveco is the dealer Level Eltrac EASY (and it dosent even have a display) , $22,000 + $3500 annual subscription from Iveco Australia, Luckily the devices are available on the black market (ebay) in Europe for around $5000 , but without the annual subscription there is no hookup into the Iveco server so can't do programming updates, but otherwise fully functional. You need this tool for self servicing on the Euro5 Iveco .

(anyone who thinks that $500 is too much for a Nanocom should think again. )

[PAT303]

Yes Pat and here in Aus most of us live in high ambient temps so the oil will need changing more often and 20,000km is just far too long no mater how new the car is especially here in Aus. Each time the engine fires no matter how old or new the engine is contaminants get in the oil, the older the oil the more there are so both heat and contaminants are a factor. Engines are basically the same as they always were under the plastic covers, yes newer engines are a bit more efficient and a bit cleaner but there is no new magic technology to keep the oil clean.
Chris

Total rubbish. Pat

[PAT303]

Diesels run better when hot. Having moved from the UK to here, I've noticed everything is at running temp a lot quicker. The most wear (and that means lots of fine bits ending up in oils and filters) occurs from cold start up.. I have bought one vehicle over with me.. It has over 400000kms on it. It used to struggle to start in UK winters, filling the yard with smoke, running rough and taking an age to warm up, using oil as it did.. Since being here, it always starts, never smokes, rarely needs glow plugs and does not use oil between changes... Its all designed to run at working temp, and that happens a lot quicker here, so IMO its not BS. Granted, if you're traveling up the Canning you have dust to think about, but otherwise, I wouldn't worry to much!!

The force is strong with this one :twisted:. Pat

[loneranger]

My 110 is coming up for 12months and will be having its first service when we get home. By the time it goes in it will have about 10,000 on the clock. The 90 will probably be about 12,000km by the time it is 12 months old. I was going to do an oil change at 5,000km but considering it took nearly 10months to get there I didn't see the point in changing oil for 3 months.

[cafe latte]

Diesels run better when hot. Having moved from the UK to here, I've noticed everything is at running temp a lot quicker. The most wear (and that means lots of fine bits ending up in oils and filters) occurs from cold start up.. I have bought one vehicle over with me.. It has over 400000kms on it. It used to struggle to start in UK winters, filling the yard with smoke, running rough and taking an age to warm up, using oil as it did.. Since being here, it always starts, never smokes, rarely needs glow plugs and does not use oil between changes... Its all designed to run at working temp, and that happens a lot quicker here, so IMO its not BS. Granted, if you're traveling up the Canning you have dust to think about, but otherwise, I wouldn't worry to much!!
You are right diesel engines like being warm, but but the oil is not the engine..
Chris

[Tombie]

You are right diesel engines like being warm, but but the oil is not the engine..
Chris


But it is instrumental in its cooling.

The speculation about LR intentions, engine designers motives, etc are all very amusing in this thread..

Quality oil, quality filtration, correct warm up behavior (don't flog it cold) and environment that the engine breathes (again quality of filtration comes in here) play a far larger part in the equation.

Low quality fuels don't help either!


Let's just conclude that:

Some people are still of the belief that engines are dinosaurs and need 5,000km servicing

Some people have settled around 10-12,000km as a reasonable interval

Some will just service at factory intervals.

Some will actually test their oil, ascertain a point where they have still got oil that is protecting the engine but is now due for a change...

Some will live in the perception that our country is some freak anomaly compared to the rest of the planet that eats vehicles and engines and spits out scored cylinder bores and gear teeth.

:D

[DefenderSte]

As ive not had mine that long and it almost coming up for 10,000 me thinks on this first instance i shall be getting it serviced by a specialist.

I will attempt the next one as long as you kind people are here to p[point me in the right direction.....:D:D

[cafe latte]

But it is instrumental in its cooling.

The speculation about LR intentions, engine designers motives, etc are all very amusing in this thread..

Quality oil, quality filtration, correct warm up behavior (don't flog it cold) and environment that the engine breathes (again quality of filtration comes in here) play a far larger part in the equation.

Low quality fuels don't help either!


Let's just conclude that:

Some people are still of the belief that engines are dinosaurs and need 5,000km servicing

Some people have settled around 10-12,000km as a reasonable interval

Some will just service at factory intervals.

Some will actually test their oil, ascertain a point where they have still got oil that is protecting the engine but is now due for a change...

Some will live in the perception that our country is some freak anomaly compared to the rest of the planet that eats vehicles and engines and spits out scored cylinder bores and gear teeth.

:D
There is nothing special about are country, but it is not the UK (where Land Rover as we all know is from). I spent most of my life in the UK and going 4x4ing does not really exist, unless you go to a muddy disused quarry for the weekend and get bogged on purpose which is a bit sad I always thought. If you are a farmer you might drive across your fields, the rest of the public might drive a green lane, but most are now closed to 4x4's now. Most Landy owners will never go off the bitumen in the UK and they will never for sure drive hours on unsealed dusty roads in temps of 35 plus degrees. And folks in the UK will not be able to drive some of the amazing 4x4 tracks we have here. Aus conditions are very different to the UK which is all I said and our dusty hot conditions are hard on oil.
Also engines have not changed as much as you think, yes we have variable valve timing, fuel injection and electronics but little else has changed, a mechanic for 50 years ago would still understand the rest of the engine.
Chris

[Toxic_Avenger]

This might be a topic for another thread, but I enquired as to the cost of an intermediate (10,000Km interval, arduous use) 'B Service' at a LR dealer.
Ball park figure of around $1K, broken down as 3 hrs labour, replace oil / filter, brake flush, air filter and checking of other fluids.

For the bloke choosing not to DIY, regular servicing could become costly.

[noyakfat]

I had a 10,000km service done at a dealer in ACT (pretty much the breakdown as you described it) and it cost me just under $570.

Thankfully, the 20,000 was complimentary.

[Tombie]

Agree the internal combustion engine retains the basics of design..
Materials and tolerances are better, designs in pistons etc greatly improved.
Fueling systems far more accurate reducing oil dilution issues.
Fuel cleaner as well...

Filtration quality has generally improved in oil, fuel and air filtration..


35 degrees is nothing... Dusty dirt roads are nothing... Unless you are eating someone else's dust...


While I definitely don't condone it, we had a mine Prado 150 that did 70,000km from new and never serviced (long story - remote site, no service bay for LVs and a Senior Mine guy who was in charge of the vehicle and that couldn't be bothered)..

The oil was saturated with carbon. Some new oil, a flush, some more oil and a couple of filters... and it was back in service. Its now pushing 300,000km and hasn't given a problem since.

That vehicle spent a lot of time idling, running, in temps up to in excess of 45 degrees for 10-12 hours.

It is now serviced by the book (although at the 70k service Toyota voided the drive-line warranty - I consider that justified!)

My vehicle (D4) and wifes (D90) get serviced just shy of the LR quoted distance and I take samples and have them analysed... So far I have no reason to be concerned for the longevity of either vehicle mechanically.

Our vehicles regularly run long runs above 35 degrees, and then in winter have desert temps (negative) to deal with...

Using the UK only as an example - their engines spend a lot more time in enrichment (extra fuel scrubbing bores, diluting oils) and short runs where engine tolerances are loose because they dont get up to temp as quickly.

I would take a hot climate vehicle of equivalent age over a cold climate (snow/ice type climate) with equivalent service records any day of the week.

[PAT303]

This might be a topic for another thread, but I enquired as to the cost of an intermediate (10,000Km interval, arduous use) 'B Service' at a LR dealer.
Ball park figure of around $1K, broken down as 3 hrs labour, replace oil / filter, brake flush, air filter and checking of other fluids.

For the bloke choosing not to DIY, regular servicing could become costly.

It cost me $1020 and they change everything,re-torqued all the suspension bolts,anti seized the wheel studs and alloy mounting points,adjusted,tested poked and prodded,they even refilled the washer bottle and added window cleaner,rotated the tyres,checked pressures etc etc and gave me a written report.It's worth every penny once a year or before a major trip. Pat

[Toxic_Avenger]

It cost me $1020 and they change everything,re-torqued all the suspension bolts,anti seized the wheel studs and alloy mounting points,adjusted,tested poked and prodded,they even refilled the washer bottle and added window cleaner,rotated the tyres,checked pressures etc etc and gave me a written report.It's worth every penny once a year or before a major trip. Pat

Thing is, I didn't get the impression that the service was going to be that comprehensive.
Don't get me wrong, I'll pay if I can see the value in it, and as far as selling the sizzle not the steak, I wasn't being sold much at all other than a $1K bill!

[loneranger]

As we're coming up for our first service why do people use the dealer over independents?

[Grappler]

Thing is, I didn't get the impression that the service was going to be that comprehensive.
Don't get me wrong, I'll pay if I can see the value in it, and as far as selling the sizzle not the steak, I wasn't being sold much at all other than a $1K bill!

I normally do my own servicing, but I had the dealer do my scheduled Defender services only because it was complimentary for first 3 years. The road wheels didnt even get taken off, although it was on the service report/invoice.

Not very comprehensive!

[DefenderSte]

my intention eventually is to do my own servicing when ive got use to it. But certainlt for the first in my ownership it will be going to a recommended mechanic.

Ive never taken any of my vehicles to a main dealer for any work unless its a factory recall. I think for what you get from a main steeler is nothing but a ruddy huge bill.....:eek::eek:

but each to their own.......:D

[Tombie]

I always use the dealer for main services..

Why?

Because I have had 2 out of warranty issues (seat bolster and dash noise) done outside warranty in good faith...

Because I was loyal they have been too...

[PAT303]

As we're coming up for our first service why do people use the dealer over independents?

The dealer was cheaper than two indies I used. Pat

[PAT303]

I always use the dealer for main services..

Why?

Because I have had 2 out of warranty issues (seat bolster and dash noise) done outside warranty in good faith...

Because I was loyal they have been too...

Same here,adapter changed no questions asked 3 months out of warranty. Pat

[AndyG]

As we're coming up for our first service why do people use the dealer over independents?

For me paint corrosion warranty, although you can pay for it separately, and, if something goes seriously wrong, at least you have a relationship.

[loneranger]

For me paint corrosion warranty, although you can pay for it separately, and, if something goes seriously wrong, at least you have a relationship.

That may be important for us as the roof on my 110 has cracked and I'm waiting to hear back from them regarding repairing.

[EastFreo]

Yesterday I put my defender in for its first service. Always meant to go a bit earlier but got delayed. Went in at 14,000km and and got $490 service at Barbagellos. Was an "arduous 10,000km service" when you ask by the factory manual even though 20,000km is the first service by the hand book. Told them I had done quite a bit of off road and gravel roads.

Will say they looked after me. Got a brand new Evoke as a loner. Wife is a life long Volvo driver but she has decided that once we have paid off the deefer a bit more the Xc60 will be swooped for an Evoke!

But back to topic. Personally I will keep doing 10,000 km services at a minimum. My car is a keeper. Feel bad I left it a bit too long for this one.

[PAT303]

Many on here bag Barbagallo's but I have never had a problem with them,you can be assured your vehicle will be serviced correctly. Pat

[loneranger]

Many on here bag Barbagallo's but I have never had a problem with them,you can be assured your vehicle will be serviced correctly. Pat

What about the other mob SOR?

[jackdef90]

Besides the $$$ factor Barbagellos seem to be good, you just have to make sure the service manager relays EXACTLY what you say to the mechanics, or ask to talk to them yourself, otherwise it gets lost in translation.

[Jeff]

So I did a sneaky today and took my Puma to my local Land Rover specialist for a checkover with a whole 400km on the clock. I have read of low diff levels and know others not on the forum who had low gearbox levels, so for piece of mind had it checked. As predicted the gearbox was a bit low, but the others ok.

Jeff

:rocket:

[loneranger]

Besides the $$$ factor Barbagellos seem to be good, you just have to make sure the service manager relays EXACTLY what you say to the mechanics, or ask to talk to them yourself, otherwise it gets lost in translation.

They generally let us talk to the mechanic at Southern now after we went back 3 times for one issue.