Twin wheel rear bar

[kelvo]

Due to my cracked rear bumper I'm looking at replacing it with a metal rear bumper/bar.

I like the Terrafirma one, but without the swivel points. I know some people don't rate Terrafirma gear. I've tried their shocks, they were shocking :angel:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/280.jpg

But then I found a dual wheel carrier by MCC. You can have dual wheel carriers, or 1 wheel carrier and a single jerry can holder, or 1 wheel carrier and a twin jerry can holder.

Rear Carrier Bars MCC 022- 02 (http://www.mcc4x4.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=25&Itemid=279)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/281.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/282.jpg

BUT it seems the price is quite cheap, about $1800 for a dual wheel setup. I think the Kaymar one is about $3000, but is no longer available?

But then is the added weight hanging off the back of the Disco going to impact the already low rear axle weight limit too much...

Does anyone have any experience with the MCC bar/carrier.

A quick google is only bringing up results relating to Nissotas, none of those seem bad...

[gavinwibrow]

Kelvo, I have one that is completely removeable via a pair of towbar receiver looking bits, and for normal city operation I remove it and my spare still sits on the rear door. The swing arms on the bar can be a pain, as you have to disconnect/undo, before you can open the back door.
If you have quick release/remove for both swing arms, then you have the benefits of a strong back end and still able to use your rear door for normal day to day spare carrying. Worth a thought?

[Eevo]

BUT it seems the price is quite cheap, about $1800 for a dual wheel setup.

not sure i call that cheap

[Ean Austral]

I had a twin carrier on my D2 that a friend and me made, That car done the Canning stock Route fully loaded with the rear bar on, plus the Kimberleys and several other offroad trips and never did the weight on the rear cause me any troubles.


I can tell you $1800 is pretty good because if you worked out the hours we spent on mine I think it would have been dearer.




Cheers Ean

[clubagreenie]

If you're not in an immediate hurry, I am drawing up something at the moment.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/269.jpg

This is drawn for a rear winch. Tow option to be worked out. But wincheless design will have tow fitting (HR insert type) in bar. Above is FEA test of bar attached to original chassis outer mounts with an additional bolt to the second hole, plus a centre mount mimicking the tow bars mount to the crossmember. 20tonnes load, on the eyebolts, 7mm elastic deformation. The outer ends stop at the rear door width, with wrap around ends, akin to the xrox design. The whole thing can be folded out of half a sheet of 6mm sheet (current design, testing 4mm shortly which will probably be the non winch version). Provision in the ends for fitting the ridgy didge pivot for wheel/jerry carriers.

[kelvo]

Kelvo, I have one that is completely removeable via a pair of towbar receiver looking bits, and for normal city operation I remove it and my spare still sits on the rear door. The swing arms on the bar can be a pain, as you have to disconnect/undo, before you can open the back door.
If you have quick release/remove for both swing arms, then you have the benefits of a strong back end and still able to use your rear door for normal day to day spare carrying. Worth a thought?

Hi Gavin,

The plan would be to try and rig the righthand carrier to open with the rear door, abit like the Defender version Mantec and Murray (Rijidij) make. For on road use it might not even be necessary to use the clamp, for off road use this would be compulsory. If this didn't work I'd probably remove the righthand carrier and refit the wheel to the rear door, only fitting when I go away.

I'd also remove the lefthand carrier for normal use, no point carrying the extra weight everyday or the inconvenience of having to swing it away every time to open the rear door.

What make do you have, any chance of some pictures?

Thanks,
Kelvin

[kelvo]

If you're not in an immediate hurry, I am drawing up something at the moment.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/269.jpg

This is drawn for a rear winch. Tow option to be worked out. But wincheless design will have tow fitting (HR insert type) in bar. Above is FEA test of bar attached to original chassis outer mounts with an additional bolt to the second hole, plus a centre mount mimicking the tow bars mount to the crossmember. 20tonnes load, on the eyebolts, 7mm elastic deformation. The outer ends stop at the rear door width, with wrap around ends, akin to the xrox design. The whole thing can be folded out of half a sheet of 6mm sheet (current design, testing 4mm shortly which will probably be the non winch version). Provision in the ends for fitting the ridgy didge pivot for wheel/jerry carriers.

Looks interesting :cool:

So your design would do away with the factory towbar, and then your bar would incorporate the receiver? Would that need approval to be allowed to use it for trailer towing?

But I wonder if the bolt on 'wings' be upto the job of carrying the weight of a wheel plus carrier? It seems you're more than onto things like that though. Would the 'wings' also do away with the stupid plastic trims fixed to the rear quarts that keep getting pinged off?

Not picking at your design, just asking :wasntme:

[Eevo]

I can tell you $1800 is pretty good because if you worked out the hours we spent on mine I think it would have been dearer.



i have a receipt somewhere for mine, $699

[Ean Austral]

i have a receipt somewhere for mine, $699


I just worked out the hours we put in and if you were paying $100 / hr which for welder/fabricator is about right, 14hrs plus materials, latches , lights, stub axles for wheel carriers, etc it wouldn't be hard to rack up $1800.


You done will if you got a dual rear wheel carrier for $700. If you can remember where you got it let me know as I will buy one for the father in law at that price.


Cheers Ean

[Eevo]

You done will if you got a dual rear wheel carrier for $700. If you can remember where you got it let me know as I will buy one for the father in law at that price.


the receipt came with the car. it looked like it was part only, not fitted.
and its single wheel carrier only, but has the hinge for a second.

[kelvo]

i have a receipt somewhere for mine, $699

Interesting, care to share the make, model and supplier of the bar?

Thanks.

[gavinwibrow]

Hi Kelvin. I tried to load pics with my original post, but the system wouldn't accept/allow it. If you PM me your normal email, I'll send the pics through. Cheers Gavin

[clubagreenie]

Wings will be substantial. FEA and destruction test first.

Had a quick look and could integrate factory bar into bar. Get it higher or leave it and bar will JUST sit over with a pound-o-meter adjustment.

And given I can destroy a factory bar with an upgraded pin with less than the factory rating, whatever I engineer may not go to aust std or whatever but it'll be better after software and prototype destruction tests.

[kelvo]

Hi Kelvin. I tried to load pics with my original post, but the system wouldn't accept/allow it. If you PM me your normal email, I'll send the pics through. Cheers Gavin

Thanks, PM sent.

[clubagreenie]

In fact, what would you think if the wings turned back to the chassis and fixed there and acted as a mudflap mount?

[ozscott]

Anyone making a steel rear bar with Jerry Can (for water) holder (not too keen on MCC)? Ben at APT is designing one with a Jerry holder but don't know how far off that one is.

Cheers

[MR LR]

If you want to use it seriously off road then it is too much weight, on an already ass-heavy Disco 2...

[ozscott]

I do use it offroad in very challenging terrain. Why too heavy? Good aftermarket HD suspension and strong vehicles. Yes more weight is always a compromise but everything is. Mr LR I take it you have one and have problems with it?

Anyone seen them? I think it's either MCC, Kaymar (if they still make them...at frightful cost) or custom.

Cheers

[MR LR]

I do use it offroad in very challenging terrain. Why too heavy? Good aftermarket HD suspension and strong vehicles. Yes more weight is always a compromise but everything is. Mr LR I take it you have one and have problems with it?

Anyone seen them? I think it's either MCC, Kaymar (if they still make them...at frightful cost) or custom.

Cheers
Because of the overhang and short wheelbase.

Even without a steel rear bar, just a set of drawers in the back, mine will stand on its back legs on serious climbs...

But my definition of serious may be different to others...

[ozscott]

I have a lot of weight already...it tours to get to Offroad areas. As I said it's a compromise. I get to failure to proceed points already given steepness of some of the climbs I do. If I want a Tough Trucks vehicle I will cut my d1 down into a ute and add portals. Thanks for your input.

[MR LR]

I should have looked at the date of the original post :wasntme:

[kelvo]

In the end I just fitted a normal steel rear bumper.

Additional weight out the back was one reason, the D2 doesn't have a very high rear axle load rating. This is a reason I've also stayed away from a long range fuel tank.

[DiscoKym]

Years ago while discussing the weight issue from these rear wheel bumpers one of the engineers piped up...

He stated engineering wise - the weight is in the same region of the chassis that would count as drawbar weight, same mounting area and would exclude the vehicle from towing anything engineering wise.

But what would engineers know??? :wasntme:

[ozscott]

If it had 50kg worth of 2 x full Jerry cans plus HD bar and arms then it might get to what 100kg...so still well under ball weight Max... So yes what would engineers know. Cheers

PS. I don't tow when doing very arduous off road work which is when the Jerry can would be full (ie Offroad touring) and when towing you just subtract the weight you have added (after first taking into account the original bar which isn't negligible) off Max ball weight to see what ball weight was still available