Putting a little oil in every tank.....

[DefenderSte]

This may seem silly but i read some where on facepest (facebook) that some Land Rover owners are putting around 200ml of oil into the tank every time they fill up with diesel.

Has anybody else heard of this and does anybody on here do that and do you get any benifit from it..??

I thought that diesel fuel these days was pretty good and becomming cleaner well a little anyway....

Cheers

Ste

[jackdef90]

im guessing your referring to 2 stroke oil
diesel these days has much less sulphur in it as it's bad for the environment as a side effect diesel has less lubricity than it used to.
Some people add 2 stroke oil to help lubricate their fuel system in diesel engines
If you use good quality diesel , (shell BP ultimate), you shouldn't need to
Some people swear by it
I use crd fuel enhancer I find it quietens down the tappetty rattle I get on my 2.4 at certain revs

[The Cone of Silence]

im guessing your referring to 2 stroke oil
diesel these days has much less sulphur in it as it's bad for the environment as a side effect diesel has less lubricity than it used to.
Some people add 2 stroke oil to help lubricate their fuel system in diesel engines
If you use good quality diesel , (shell BP ultimate), you shouldn't need to
Some people swear by it
I use crd fuel enhancer I find it quietens down the tappetty rattle I get on my 2.4 at certain revs

Talk to me about that Jack....what's the go? What does CRD stand for....and are you aware of what the fuel enhancer is actually doing? I'm very keen to keep protecting the fuel system and engine as much as I can. 2008 2.4TDCi Puma.

[Ripper]

I got sent this a while back and it relates to two stroke additive:
Any saffa translation required just ask ;) (bakkie = Ute):

Due to the pollution control measures of the EC diesel-oil is nearly sulphur free and contains up to 5% of bio-diesel. Sulphur has the property to grease the high pressure injection pump and the injectors. Without sulphur, the reduced greasing property of the new diesel has already shown negative impacts on the long-term stability of the injectors and the high pressure pump. The pump manufacturers have tried to react by lining the moving parts of the pumps with teflon or other suitable material. However, the long term stability is still not achieved as with the old (sulphor contained) diesel.
The engine-research centre of a well known German car manufacurer has conducted some long term tests of diesel additives to find out whether any one of them will have an impact on the long term reliability of the diesel engine components. This introduction to explain were my information comes from.
The results of this research: any diesel additive of any manufacturer presently on the market is not worth the money!
BUT: 2-stroke oil, which we use in our motor saws, lawn mower or in 2-stroke motor engines has shown to have an extreme positive impact on diesel engines, if such 2-stroke oil is added to the diesel in a homoeophatic dosis of 1:200. In practical terms: 0,300 litre of 2-stroke oil into the 70l diesel tank. The 2-stroke oil will be absorbed by the diesel (emulsion) and grease every moving part of the high pressure pump and the injectors.
Besides this, the 2-stroke oil will keep the diesel engine clean, as it burnes cleaner as the diesel itself.
In other words, the 2-stroke oil has a much lower ash-content as diesel, when burned. This proven fact delays the DPF (diesel particulate (soot) filter) to clogg, and the "burn free" process of the DPF will be much less.
One more information: in Germany we have to present our cars every 2 years to the TUV -Technical Supervision Organisation - who will check, amongs others, the pollution of petrol and diesel engines.
The measured cloud-factor of a diesel engine without use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,95.
The same factor with the use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,47 - reduction of nearly half of the soot particles.
Besides this, the use of 2-stroke oil in the diesel will increase the milage by 3-5%.
I also dug this up from another forum, apologies for plagiarism to the original author.
I did a lot of reasearch on 2 stroke oil in diesel engines.
It seems our american cousins are already wise to the benefits of a drop of 2 stroke oil.
Anyway the science is well proven , it burns more completely than diesel , reduces engine smoke to virtually nothing , cleans the combustion chamber , it appears to lubricate the egr valves to close more evenly.
(I had a lazy egr valve one side but it's not lazy any more)
I've used it for a few months now in my RRS and the wifes A4 tdi.
Much quieter when cold ,much better throttle response . no smoke unless I drive like a test pilot when I get a light haze from the pipes instead of the smoke I used to get.The throttle response is thebig difference.
It is more lively and the gearbox doesnt hunt up and down at all.
just 300mL of 2 stroke oil in a full tank really does give you wings.

??This has in the last two years gained a lot of momentum in Germany, after they started mixing 5% bio diesel with the normal diesel fuel. Now bio diesel in Germany is a mixture of raps seed oil and ethanol. This makes the concoction hygroscopic, i.e. it will absorb moisture (water!!!).
You now get an idea why there is such a high failure rate on VHP pumps and injectors on CRD engines in Europe.
This whole concept of mixing 2-stroke oil with diesel is nothing new. It started in Scandinavia and Northern USA among the fishermen' fleets in Winter.
But in our south african context, we first have to get a proper understanding about the quality of diesel:
1. Normal diesel is 500ppm sulphur content - Cetane - lower
2. Premium diesel is 50ppm sulphur content - Cetane - higher
3. "African countries diesel (Sadec countries and further north) can be anything up to 8000ppm sulphur content

If we now go back to the olden days of 10-15 years ago, it was not uncommon for diesel in SA to have a 3000ppm sulphur content. In those days one had to change the oil every 5000km as otherwise one ended up with a jelly like substance in the engine, also called the black death or sludge.
I am now going back to the topic at hand. The highest cetane rating in SA diesel is found in the Sasol 50ppm diesel. This 50ppm diesel (irrespective of brand) also has a reduced lubrication property which leads to defective injectors, see for example Toyota 3 litre bakkie engines.
In two-stroke oil we get 4 different quality ratings, which are based on the JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Org.) scale:
JASO-FA very basic single grade SAE30 or SAE40 based 2-stroke oil (premix only)
JASO-FB Used for most premix industrial 2-stroke engines and scooters
JASO-FC "Low ash burn" used for separate oil injection and most outboard motors. this oil can be mineral or part synthetic
JASO-FD This is fully synthetic 2-stroke oil for racing engines. It is not suitable for mixing with diesel, because a) too expensive and b) not compatible with cats and particle filters.
For All Series LR and Disco1 and 2 a Jaso-FB rated oil is fine. For Disco 3 and 4 a JASO-FC rated oil has to be used, such as the Fuchs oil.
Now in order to provide better lubrication but at the same time also better power delivery from the engines, the ideal solution seems to be to add 2-stroke oil (see above) in a mixing ratio of 1:200 i.e. 500ml per 100lt diesel.
This will increase the cetane rating by 3-5 points and will provide the following benefits:
1. Much better and more complete combustion (lower EGT)
2. Self cleaning of engine internals, as JASO-FC compliant 2-stroke oil burns cleaner and better than diesel. Due to this there is also about a 3-5% gain in fuel economy.
3. Sufficient lubrication of high pressure components in the diesel injection system.
4. Much quieter starting in the morning and smoother running
5. Reduced smoking
6. In engines with particle filter "burn free" action is reduced from every 600-700km to between every 1200-2000km
7. Much lower "clowd content" of diesel exhaust fumes typically from 0.95 down to 0.47. This is measured in Germany at the T?V.
8. Large government fleets in Germany report fleet reliability (MB Cdi, BMW CRD, Audi Tdi etc. etc. to exceed 400'000km WITHOUT VHP pump or injector failures

So the above deliberations give some well documented indication, why adding 2-stroke oil to diesel is such a clever move.
I run my 1999 Disco1 300Tdi on Sasol 50ppm diesel with a 1:200 mixing ratio of Sasol Corwa-120 2-stroke oil added.
I get on long distance travel fully loaded between 8.9 to 10.8lt/100km depending on how heavy my right foot is. I have done a number of trips with 1000km per (standard capacity) tank.

[Tombie]

False - Sulphur is NOT a lubricant...

What happened was when the process to remove Sulphur is done the components that assisted lubrication suffered.

The additives in diesel are added to replace that which is lost in the refining process.


Also, OLD fuel pumps etc were designed for the fuel available at the time, just as OLD cast iron heads didnt need inserts when there was lead in petrol.

When these items changed, the construction and design of the components was also updated..

Modern Alloy heads have Stellite valve inserts etc in Petrol engines to remove the issue.

Modern diesel pumps, injectors etc are designed with materials to suit.

As an example - a TD5 was designed factory to run happily on Kerosene..
A far less lubricating fluid than a LSD...

[Jondavball]

So do the knowledgable masses (which doesn't include me) think adding 2 stroke oil to a tank of gas a good thing or not?

[Tombie]

Adding 2 Stroke Oil to Diesel


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/94.jpg There are a lot of arguments, mostly on motoring forums, about whether or not to add 2 stroke oil to diesel powered vehicles. The main argument is that this will improve the lubricity of the fuel, particularly low sulphur(50ppm/10ppm) diesel.
Sulphur occurs naturally in oil. It is undesirable for various reasons. The main reason is that the sulphur from the exhaust pipe forms sulphuric acid in the atmosphere which results in acid rain. In the vehicle it pollutes the engine oil reducing its life. Using a low sulphur diesel reduces both the environmental pollution and the pollution of engine oil. In order to produce low sulphur diesel, the sulphur has to be removed and the process that removes the sulphur reduces the lubricity of the diesel. Diesel pumps and injectors rely on this to keep them lubricated.
Should I add 2 Stroke Oil to my diesel to improve its lubricity?

In short, you shouldn't. 2 Stroke Oil is designed for 2 stroke motorcycle engines, not 4 stroke vehicles. Vehicle manufacturers and fuel refining companies all agree that running 2 Stroke Oil in fuel is likely to cause complications and there have been reports of engine failures due to 2 Stroke Oil sludging up valves and fouling injectors. As fuel refineries have produced lower sulphur diesel, so too have they added lubrication substitutes to the new diesels to the point that lubrication is now even higher than that of high sulphur diesel.
The vehicle manufacturers don't recommend putting 2 Stroke Oil in your diesel...
The fuel companies don't recommend putting 2 Stroke Oil in your diesel...
The 2 Stroke Oil manufacturers don't recommend putting 2 Stroke Oil in your diesel, therefore logic dictates that there is no reason to put 2 Stroke Oil in your diesel!



For a detailed study on adding 2-stroke oil to diesel, please see link below. This is the most substantive, peer-reviewed study done to date that doesn't rely on anecdotal evidence.
Better lubricity, cleaner burning fuel, cleaner oil and cleaner air means there is no reason for any vehicle to run 500ppm diesel instead of 50ppm, nor to add 2 Stroke Oil to aid in lubrication.


2-Stroke Oil In Diesel ? A Technical Study (http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/2-stroke-oil-in-diesel-technical-study.php)


It IS worth noting that people claim the engine sounds quieter - a product of the Cetane rating changing slightly...

The higher the Cetane number the more easily the fuel will combust in a diesel engine. The characteristic diesel "knock" occurs when fuel that has been injected into the cylinder ignites after a delay causing a late shock wave. Reducing this delay results in less unburned fuel in the cylinder and less intense knock. Therefore higher-cetane fuel usually causes an engine to run more smoothly and quietly. This does not translate into longevity nor does it necessarily translate into greater efficiency, although it may in some vehicles in certain conditions.

Consider that our CI engines are computer controlled timing (and dont have knock sensors) altering the combustion timing can have an adverse effect on performance, EGTs and consumption.

[jackdef90]

Talk to me about that Jack....what's the go? What does CRD stand for....and are you aware of what the fuel enhancer is actually doing? I'm very keen to keep protecting the fuel system and engine as much as I can. 2008 2.4TDCi Puma.

Common rail diesel enhancer, it's is basically a cetane booster, but it works the same way as 2 st oil by lubricating you fuel system, you just need a lot less of it, I have a 90 so 60 L tank, I add 5ml for a full tank, and it feels and sounds a lot better, also it seems to be an almost immediate improvement.
I don't use it every tank.

[RVR110]

The 2010 Defender brochure on page 11 specifically notes that "a unique engine tune has been developed to allow it to tolerate the variable quality, high-sulphur fuels to be found across developing markets" and says to "check your dealer for availability". In other words, not in Australia. So if you are thinking of artificially increasing the sulphur content of your fuel then it may not be the best approach unless you go to the trouble of getting the specialised mapping and accepting the compromises that may bring.

TDCi engines are designed to run on modern diesel fuel, so feed them what they were designed to run on. These engines are highly sophisticated and the engineers who designed them were not stupid. Modifying your fuel is likely to "incur consequences". And if your vehicle is under warranty then you can kiss that good-bye, just like you'd have to if you accidentally filled up with petrol instead of diesel.

[DefenderSte]

im guessing your referring to 2 stroke oil
diesel these days has much less sulphur in it as it's bad for the environment as a side effect diesel has less lubricity than it used to.
Some people add 2 stroke oil to help lubricate their fuel system in diesel engines
If you use good quality diesel , (shell BP ultimate), you shouldn't need to
Some people swear by it
I use crd fuel enhancer I find it quietens down the tappetty rattle I get on my 2.4 at certain revs


Yup i know what you mean as ive started to notice that too.....




Talk to me about that Jack....what's the go? What does CRD stand for....and are you aware of what the fuel enhancer is actually doing? I'm very keen to keep protecting the fuel system and engine as much as I can. 2008 2.4TDCi Puma.



I may have a look at some of that Common Rail Diesel Enhancer.

But for the time being im going to just fill with BP diesel as usual as i dont want to bugger it up as ive only had it since Feb.....:)


Thanks to all for you info........:D
:D

[DefenderSte]

The 2010 Defender brochure on page 11 specifically notes that "a unique engine tune has been developed to allow it to tolerate the variable quality, high-sulphur fuels to be found across developing markets" and says to "check your dealer for availability". In other words, not in Australia. So if you are thinking of artificially increasing the sulphur content of your fuel then it may not be the best approach unless you go to the trouble of getting the specialised mapping and accepting the compromises that may bring.

TDCi engines are designed to run on modern diesel fuel, so feed them what they were designed to run on. These engines are highly sophisticated and the engineers who designed them were not stupid. Modifying your fuel is likely to "incur consequences". And if your vehicle is under warranty then you can kiss that good-bye, just like you'd have to if you accidentally filled up with petrol instead of diesel.


A fair point well put sir......:)
:)

[Lionelgee]

For a detailed study on adding 2-stroke oil to diesel, please see link below
Consider that our CI engines are computer controlled timing (and dont have knock sensors) altering the combustion timing can have an adverse effect on performance, EGTs and consumption.


G'day Tombie,

I know this post started on a thread about much newer diesels... however, how would the content of adding 2-stroke oil to the diesel tank apply to an old Series 3 diesel. Considering its age/wear and engineering simplicity?

Kind Regards
Lionel

[bsperka]

The old 2 stroke oil discussion once again. Gotta love it. Comes around about once a year.

[Graz]

Fuel and oil additives are like hyclones, designed to remove money from your wallet to put into someone else's.
My opinion on it all anyway.

[Tombie]

Lionel, the biggest issue when they went low sulphur was lubricity reduced.

Fuel companies then added agents to the fuel to raise the lubricity back to the correct levels.

The only side effect, older diesels, some suffered from incompatible seals to the new blends...

[460cixy]

I put oil in every tank around 40 litres of vegie oil per tank really makes the 300tdi nice and quiet so no lack of lube for me

[DefenderSte]

I put oil in every tank around 40 litres of vegie oil per tank really makes the 300tdi nice and quiet so no lack of lube for me


Blimy that seems an awful lot.......:eek:
:eek:

[bsperka]

I put oil in every tank around 40 litres of vegie oil per tank really makes the 300tdi nice and quiet so no lack of lube for me

How long have you been doing this? Kms / years?

[460cixy]

Close to two years now with the disco a couple of blocked filters till I got the filtration all sorted out but its going well its slowed the ip leak a bit too

[Lionelgee]

I put oil in every tank around 40 litres of vegie oil per tank really makes the 300tdi nice and quiet so no lack of lube for me


Hello 460cixy...,

Would that 40 litres be biodiesel made from vegie oil? Hence the no lack of lube? :)

Kind Regards
Lionel

[460cixy]

Not bio diesel exactly just filtered used vegie oil. I get it from a place who's oil is excellent and hardly used

[PhilipA]

But you must have to be careful reversing to make sure you don't run over any following cats.

Regards Philip A

[460cixy]

Can't see em for the white smoke on a cold morning. But I love the garlic dim sim smell

[Lionelgee]

Not bio diesel exactly just filtered used vegie oil. I get it from a place who's oil is excellent and hardly used

Hello 460cixy..,

So the part that I deleted from my earlier message about having constant cravings for fish and chips while driving would not have been too far from the mark :p

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Mick_Marsh]

There is a fellow on this forum who runs his diesel converted S3 in nothing but used cooking oil.

[spudfan]

This might not be applicable to Australia but when I was considering adding vegetable oil to the tdi I phoned the Customs and Excise to ask about it. They told me that I could put anything I liked into the fuel tank PROVIDED I had paid road fuel duty on it. If I was stopped and the tank dipped (they do this to ensure people are not using cheap agri diesel in cars) I'd have to be able to prove that the appropriate duty had been paid on the vegetable oil to bring it up to road fuel excise. They could take the vehicle on the spot as they have done to others using the wrong fuel and the fines are very steep. Might not be applicable over there but thought I'd mention it.

[460cixy]

Yeah they really love there fuel tax over there hey. Here not enough ppl do it so it flys under the radar a bit

[Leyland1980]

I have on occasion added ~20L of used engine oil (filtered through oil filters, then fuel filters) to a 100L tanks of diesel so 15-20% oil.

Seems to do no harm (although is a bit smokier) and I think it is a pretty good disposal method following a service.

[460cixy]

I haven't been game to try used engine oil but have used new engine oil that I have no use for with out drama