How has 'Subscription' effected AULRO?

[wardy1]

Just wondering if there has been any notable fall off of membership since the introduction of the subscription fee?

[Toxic_Avenger]

If I were to postulate, I'd say that membership would have risen due to the changes. Non members (those without a subscription) may have dropped- either from being fed up with cost of membership, or being converted to paid membership.

[incisor]

it dropped to start with but by start of april the graphs showed usage was back to where it was prior and was building..

will look again at the start of may...

[BigBlackDog]

So the world didn't actually end as some predicted:bangin:

[joel0407]

So the world didn't actually end as some predicted:bangin:

The world hasn't ended but maybe it's not as good as some make out.

[Tombie]

The world hasn't ended but maybe it's not as good as some make out.


Care to elaborate on this hypothesis?

[pop058]

The world hasn't ended but maybe it's not as good as some make out.


Care to elaborate on this hypothesis?

x 2

[Judo]

Should I heat the popcorn yet?

[Toxic_Avenger]

The world hasn't ended but maybe it's not as good as some make out.

I started a post yesterday but canned it. I'm not sure that there is 100% understanding or transparency on what measures we are all talking about. That was the premise of my whole first post. You can't just look at one variable without seeing how it relates with other variables.

My point:
The site has page visits ('Usage'?) from members (with usernames) and guests (including bots for web crawing, search engines etc)
If member privileges were restricted, some would leave (naturally) while others would consider converting their membership to a paid membership, as I did.This is the member>subscriber conversion, which is probably the most important thing to look at.
12 months from today, I'd expect renewal of paid subscriptions to increase, less some churn from people who lost interest, bought a Toyota etc. But overall renewals would be higher that the same time last year.




it dropped to start with but by start of april the graphs showed usage was back to where it was prior and was building..

will look again at the start of may...

Can I start by asking what metrics you use for your graphs?

What dropped? Overall page visits? New Membership numbers? Renewed membership numbers? Conversion rate of non subscribers to members? New accounts created?

[Redback]

I look at it in simple terms, without the subcriptions, the forum would eventially close.

I dunno about the rest of you, but I've gotten used to the place:)

Baz.

[joel0407]

I look at it in simple terms, without the subcriptions, the forum would eventially close.



Why? How?




The other questions will take a longer answer.

[incisor]

all of the above and then some

page visits actually rose early jan then fell away

i expect active user numbers will drop (as they have) while subscriber numbers slowly increase

levels of new users and visits to the site varies like the tides and the time of year so i can only go by the trends compared to the last few years.

very hard to bring in such a big change without there being a negative reaction but some i thought i would never see subscribe have...

new vendors have come on board and some existing vendors have increased their support and i doubt you would be seeing that if they werent get results from the place i expect.

the likes of facebook etc have been affecting forums for ages but it seems that that trend is slowly turning round as people realise it is okay for the here and now but next to useless as a reference or store of knowledge.

new user stats for the last month ( 2014 stats show most new users on one day was 25)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

new post stats for last month ( 2014 stats show most posts on one day was 755)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


at the end of the day i am very very appreciative of the support i have been offered by users and vendors and hope the vast majority are happy with what they get for their money

but at the end of the day the place has to be about the users and the team is doing all it can to keep that focus...

[Redback]

Why? How?




The other questions will take a longer answer.

Because it cost money to run the place that's why, and it has grown to the point Dave can't afford to run it without help and that's where the subcriptions come in, you do realise that Dave has a real job, like you.

Baz.

[incisor]

Why? How?.

as stated earlier in the process, before the change came in

out of the blue, without warning, i spent a week in critical care and nearly died

that prompted me to ponder, then act, on trying to keep all the hard work put into the place by the many people who have built the place over the previous 10+ years

after being gouded by an admin or two for a couple of months, i put it too the rest of the mods and admins about whether i should try

they resoundingly said yes

i put up some ideas

they were mulled over, modified, many suggestions were made over a few months and we eventually came up with the scheme i put into place jan 1 2015

it was not just pulled out of thin air

i made it as cheap as i thought i could.

anyway, judging by what has occurred to now, the place is well on the way to be sustainable...

so from my point of view i am happy with where it is...

i hope others are too, but i realise many won't be and that was factored into the mix...

cheers

[incisor]

New Membership numbers? Renewed membership numbers? Conversion rate of non subscribers to members? New accounts created?

when i get some time i will try and make a couple of graphs...

that will take a little while (read weeks) as i have much on my plate at the moment...

[clubagreenie]

Why? How?




The other questions will take a longer answer.

I used to run a forum of around 200 active members. With the forum software, management, backup and updates were a major event. Just managing bot traffic and ghost subscriptions was a daily event.

And I didn't work at the time. Cost was bourne by peoples voluntry donations combined with it being small enough to be share hosted. Not having traffic for a dedicated server saves big $$$. Thats why we have fast access I'm sure given numbers.

Given Dave's workload and other responsibilities plus costs we have it great. I'll actually be upgrading my membership level with upcoming things.

[Disco Muppet]

Well actually it's overflowing with Dom p back in the mod pen, dave picks a new platinum keyboard every week and washes his hands in sparkling water while funding minor rebellions in war torn countries for kicks....
Wait, no, those were the big pharmaceutical kickbacks....
:P
As baz said, the subscription service keeps the light on and the door open for the years to come :)

Sent from my HTC One using AULRO mobile app

[Mick_Marsh]

Muppet!

I'm at the early stages of sussing out starting a forum. The one I am starting has got to be free.
I've got to say, what I have found out so far, it costs.

I shudder to think how much one as large as AULRO costs to run. Both man hours and money.

Advertising recoups some money. Subscriptions recoup more.
What recoups the shortfall?
Who maintains Muppet's excessive lifestyle?

[Eevo]

Who maintains Muppet's excessive lifestyle?

his gf......oh

[Redback]

Well actually it's overflowing with Dom p back in the mod pen, dave picks a new platinum keyboard every week and washes his hands in sparkling water while funding minor rebellions in war torn countries for kicks....
Wait, no, those were the big pharmaceutical kickbacks....
:P
As baz said, the subscription service keeps the light on and the door open for the years to come :)

Sent from my HTC One using AULRO mobile app


Muppet!

I'm at the early stages of sussing out starting a forum. The one I am starting has got to be free.
I've got to say, what I have found out so far, it costs.

I shudder to think how much one as large as AULRO costs to run. Both man hours and money.

Advertising recoups some money. Subscriptions recoup more.
What recoups the shortfall?
Who maintains Muppet's excessive lifestyle?

Hey come on guys, champers is on, it's chateaubriand with bearnaise sauce for lunch today:beer:

[Disco Muppet]

Oh was that supposed to be a secret? Oops...
Nothing to see here folks, back to your turnips...
Mick, no offence but you don't think a forum about being pulled up constantly in an old Commodore is going to attract a bit of an...interesting....crowd?

Sent from my HTC One using AULRO mobile app

[Mick_Marsh]

Maybe not an interesting crowd to you (or d2dave) but, the Commodore being "the hoon car of choice", it will attract a "crowd" which will more than likely be of interest to a small section of the "law enforcement community".

What do they say, safety in numbers?

[Disco Muppet]

Micks commodore brings all the lads to the yard, and they're like "do a sick skid brah"

[joel0407]

I am a member on several forums. I actually don't know how many but I can think of 10 straight of the top of my head. This is the only one I have to pay. Of the unknown number of forums I have been and am still a member of, I can only think of one that has closed down and shut up shop. That forum was Bianca's Smut Shack. It wasn't only all about smut. It was the worlds first web bases chat room and as much as the name sounds a bit degenerate, it was all there was in 1994. I dialled in with a 9600 modem to Charles Sturt University in Bathurst. Out of interest, it close more due to legal action from Radio Shack claiming they owned the name "Shack" and Bianca couldn't use it.

I fail to see how this forum costs anymore than any other forum or why all the other forums can be self sufficent but this one can not. The only other forums that I have come across that charge are porn forums but they are about someone making money from their forum.

Work load should not be that great either. That's why it gets shared with moderators.

This forum is no bigger than RCGROUPS.COM and no smaller than REDLINE.COM. I am members of both and neither cost me a cent.

As for the Stats. I don't think I have seen a proper increase yet. I'm pretty sure every year up until the change would have been an increase.

Stats can be twisted to show almost whatever you want. The problem that exists now is the uproar that would be created to try and reverse the change. I suspect it would have greater detramental effect.

[Mick_Marsh]

This forum is no bigger than RCGROUPS.COM and no smaller than REDLINE.COM. I am members of both and neither cost me a cent.
Sponsored by the trade I suspect.

I am on other "free" forums as well. All paid for with the assistance of businesses that get business from that forum. One I am on is owned and run by a business that is a spare parts supplier for the marque. I purchase a lot of spare parts from them.

Last I saw, Dave (incisor) was not the owner of a Landrover dealership or parts company. I suspect this forum is a very independent entity. I like it that way and am happy to pay for the privilege.

[Redback]

Yep me also, I'm on countless other forums all free, I have noticed a lot are now asking members to donate, so I imagine that these other forums are feeling the pinch and will no doubt go the same way as Dave has.

[incisor]

The problem that exists now is the uproar that would be created to try and reverse the change. I suspect it would have greater detramental effect.

there will be no turn around...

of that i can give you an iron clad guarantee ...

i do object to the inferences you are trying to draw so i won't be continuing to try to have an informative discussion about it with you.

[kelvo]

"I can only think of one that has closed down and shut up shop. That forum was Bianca's Smut Shack. It wasn't only all about smut. It was the worlds first web bases chat room and as much as the name sounds a bit degenerate, it was all there was in 1994. I dialled in with a 9600 modem to Charles Sturt University in Bathurst. Out of interest, it close more due to legal action from Radio Shack claiming they owned the name "Shack" and Bianca couldn't use it.

If wiki can be believed it shut due to excessive bandwidth costs, not from the lawsuit which never actually happened.

Excessive bandwidth costs could potentially shut AULRO down if a form of income can not meet the outgoings.

Extract from the wiki page
"In 1997 Radio Shack sought to prevent bianca's "Smut Shack" from using that name, citing their previous use of the word "shack" and claiming exclusive use. They later backed down from their legal action.

In 1999 the site was purchased by Nerve.com, but by 2001 they had given up on the venture due to excessive bandwidth costs. Nerve announced bianca's impending closure, though they vowed to find a way to preserve at least part of the site."

Full link here bianca.com - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bianca.com)

[joel0407]

Sponsored by the trade I suspect.

I am on other "free" forums as well. All paid for with the assistance of businesses that get business from that forum. One I am on is owned and run by a business that is a spare parts supplier for the marque. I purchase a lot of spare parts from them.

Last I saw, Dave (incisor) was not the owner of a Landrover dealership or parts company. I suspect this forum is a very independent entity. I like it that way and am happy to pay for the privilege.

I am confused by your comment.

Supported by the trade. Yep, makes sense.

Paid for by businesses that get business from the forum. I think that's what you mean. So not owned by the businesses but supported by them, through advertising and the like.

Dave doesn't own a business that would support the forum. Yep, just like above. So why won't businesses support the forum. Or do they and the subscription is extra?

I see very little advertisment on RedlineGTI but it's only a small forum. RCGroups on the other hand is riddled with advertisements. I've been doing this that long though, I hardly notice it.

I think I am likely going around and circles here. I'm pretty sure this would have been done and dusted when they fees were introduced. What I see happening is Dave makes some money. He has been very cleaver and done what a good business person does and create something that alot of people want and need then overnight start charging for it. He makes some money wether it be a lot or just a normal income, he has created it himself and I commend him for it. I'm just one of the suckers that has been caught by his cleaverness.

What happens now though is why will someone pay for something they can use google to search for free. Why would someone pay to help someone else. As an unpaid subscriber, I might see a question I know the answer too but I can't post the answer becasue I am limited to the threads I can post in.

I don't think this forum will completely die any time soon but it will dwindle expotentially over the next 5 - 10 years. By that time Dave will have likely retired and maybe then the forum will get turned off.

Happy Days (for the time being)

[joel0407]

If wiki can be believed it shut due to excessive bandwidth costs, not from the lawsuit which never actually happened.

Excessive bandwidth costs could potentially shut AULRO down if a form of income can not meet the outgoings.

Extract from the wiki page
"In 1997 Radio Shack sought to prevent bianca's "Smut Shack" from using that name, citing their previous use of the word "shack" and claiming exclusive use. They later backed down from their legal action.

In 1999 the site was purchased by Nerve.com, but by 2001 they had given up on the venture due to excessive bandwidth costs. Nerve announced bianca's impending closure, though they vowed to find a way to preserve at least part of the site."

Full link here bianca.com - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bianca.com)

Thanks mate. I can't open the wiki at work.

Partly interesting. It was a social forum with no real subject. Without subject I imagine it would be hard to source sponsorship. No money means no forum.

I'm now searching how many forums actually die and what from.

A stat I'd be interested in is how this forum rates to other LR forums around the world. My next question will be though is how do they continue to operate but this one couldn't?

[joel0407]

all of the above and then some

page visits actually rose early jan then fell away

i expect active user numbers will drop (as they have) while subscriber numbers slowly increase

levels of new users and visits to the site varies like the tides and the time of year so i can only go by the trends compared to the last few years.

very hard to bring in such a big change without there being a negative reaction but some i thought i would never see subscribe have...

new vendors have come on board and some existing vendors have increased their support and i doubt you would be seeing that if they werent get results from the place i expect.

the likes of facebook etc have been affecting forums for ages but it seems that that trend is slowly turning round as people realise it is okay for the here and now but next to useless as a reference or store of knowledge.

new user stats for the last month ( 2014 stats show most new users on one day was 25)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=93359&stc=1&d=1430435977

new post stats for last month ( 2014 stats show most posts on one day was 755)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=93360&stc=1&d=1430436060


at the end of the day i am very very appreciative of the support i have been offered by users and vendors and hope the vast majority are happy with what they get for their money

but at the end of the day the place has to be about the users and the team is doing all it can to keep that focus...


So if I haven't added it up wrong (very possible) there were 371 new members last month. So at $11 ea, that's $4081? or roughly $1000 per week. Not bad for running a forum.

Or how many are unpaid going with the 3 months access? Which means they might subscribe again in 3 months time with a new user name. Oh does this mean we will see a rise in new members? Since a person who is refusing to pay is becoming a new member every 3 months? I'm sure stats tell a tale?

[incisor]

So if I haven't added it up wrong (very possible) there were 371 new members last month. So at $11 ea, that's $4081? or roughly $1000 per week. Not bad for running a forum.

Or how many are unpaid going with the 3 months access? Which means they might subscribe again in 3 months time with a new user name. Oh does this mean we will see a rise in new members? Since a person who is refusing to pay is becoming a new member every 3 months? I'm sure stats tell a tale?
That's new members not subscribers

But feel free to continue

[joel0407]

That's new members not subscribers

But feel free to continue

And yes so we will never really know how many of these members are just members that have run out of there 3 month limited membership and just starting a new membership with a different user name.

Gotta love Stats.

[joel0407]

So the initial question remains unanswered, "How has 'Subscription' effected AULRO?

[Mick_Marsh]

I am confused by your comment.

Supported by the trade. Yep, makes sense. Supported financially.

Paid for by businesses that get business from the forum. I think that's what you mean. So not owned by the businesses but supported by them, through advertising and the like.And financial contribution for running costs

Dave doesn't own a business that would support the forum. Yep, just like above. So why won't businesses support the forum. Or do they and the subscription is extra?I was referring to something like a Landrover business owning the forun i.e. the sponsor

I see very little advertisment on RedlineGTI but it's only a small forum. RCGroups on the other hand is riddled with advertisements. I've been doing this that long though, I hardly notice it. The forum gets revenue from the ads. And more than likely sponsorship from a RC modelling business or two.

I think I am likely going around and circles here. I'm pretty sure this would have been done and dusted when they fees were introduced. What I see happening is Dave makes some money. He has been very cleaver and done what a good business person does and create something that alot of people want and need then overnight start charging for it. He makes some money wether it be a lot or just a normal income, he has created it himself and I commend him for it. I'm just one of the suckers that has been caught by his cleaverness.

What happens now though is why will someone pay for something they can use google to search for free. Why would someone pay to help someone else. As an unpaid subscriber, I might see a question I know the answer too but I can't post the answer becasue I am limited to the threads I can post in.

I don't think this forum will completely die any time soon but it will dwindle expotentially over the next 5 - 10 years. By that time Dave will have likely retired and maybe then the forum will get turned off.

Happy Days (for the time being)
Right. A few comments in red for clarification.

Forums require money to run. Even free ones.
The expenses are things such as hosting and bandwidth.
Revenue to pay for the expenses is derived from things such as subscriptions and advertising. With the incresed use of ad blockers, revenue is down.
Now, I ask you, who pays the shortfall when the income doesn't cover the expenditure?
You? Me? I can assure you I can't sustain that much of a hit.
If I owned the forum, I'd have sold it to Toyota years ago.
You seem to think the owner of the forum is sitting back with pina colada in hand watching the dollar signs tick over. I suspect you may be half right. I suspect dollar signs are ticking over. Red ones.
As has been explained over and over again, the subscriptions were introduced to allow the forum to exist on it's own, without a benefactor.

Oh, by the way, have you ever used Wikipedia? Do you pay for it?
If your answer is "no", think of this.
Wikipedia only continues to exist because of patrons, backers, sponsors, supporters and philanthropists. Big multinationals and people like me. Yes. I pay Wikipedia so others can use it for free. So it doesn't fall in a financial colapse.

Me, I am a silver subscriber to this site. I am happy to do this so the site continues. I have put a lot into it (not as much as others) and have got a lot from it.


Thanks mate. I can't open the wiki at work.

Partly interesting. It was a social forum with no real subject. Without subject I imagine it would be hard to source sponsorship. No money means no forum.

I'm now searching how many forums actually die and what from.

A stat I'd be interested in is how this forum rates to other LR forums around the world. My next question will be though is how do they continue to operate but this one couldn't?
LROCV is supported financially by the club members
101club is supported financially by the club members
REMLR is supported financially by the club members
EMLRA is supported financially by the club members

Do you see a pattern forming?

In all forums, there is someone that pays the bills. It's not all free.

Sorry for the rambling rant, but..............

Think I'll do some work on the Landrover now.

[Disco Muppet]

Well apparently Dave has purchased a Cleaver for himself...
Sounds dangerous...

[joel0407]

Whilst waiting for your reply.

I don't have the full thread of PM between myself and "incisor" as I have to empty my PM mail box during times of unpaid membership. There had been some posts back and forwath of graphs and the last PM noted the site visits had dropped from 200,000 to 150,000 for the month (I think it was Feb). Showing a drop of 25%.

So the current posted graphs show new post per day for this April with the highest being 587, same time last year 755. Still falling.

[joel0407]

Right. A few comments in red for clarification.

Forums require money to run. Even free ones.
The expenses are things such as hosting and bandwidth.
Revenue to pay for the expenses is derived from things such as subscriptions and advertising. With the incresed use of ad blockers, revenue is down.
Now, I ask you, who pays the shortfall when the income doesn't cover the expenditure?
You? Me? I can assure you I can't sustain that much of a hit.
If I owned the forum, I'd have sold it to Toyota years ago.
You seem to think the owner of the forum is sitting back with pina colada in hand watching the dollar signs tick over. I suspect you may be half right. I suspect dollar signs are ticking over. Red ones.
As has been explained over and over again, the subscriptions were introduced to allow the forum to exist on it's own, without a benefactor.

Oh, by the way, have you ever used Wikipedia? Do you pay for it?
If your answer is "no", think of this.
Wikipedia only continues to exist because of patrons, backers, sponsors, supporters and philanthropists. Big multinationals and people like me. Yes. I pay Wikipedia so others can use it for free. So it doesn't fall in a financial colapse.

Me, I am a silver subscriber to this site. I am happy to do this so the site continues. I have put a lot into it (not as much as others) and have got a lot from it.


LROCV is supported financially by the club members
101club is supported financially by the club members
REMLR is supported financially by the club members
EMLRA is supported financially by the club members

Do you see a pattern forming?

In all forums, there is someone that pays the bills. It's not all free.

Sorry for the rambling rant, but..............

Think I'll do some work on the Landrover now.

My complaint is not paying for the forum. I have a possibly will continue to, spend a lot of time on here. My issue is being forced to pay for it.

The only other forum I have paid for was Rexnet. That forum, as well as this one have been invaluable to me.

I like to have things like an avatar. I like to share my Fuelly banner to show my fuel consumption in my signature block. These are all it takes to get me to subscribe.

One of my biggest gripes about this forum is when I ask a question. Someone might know the answer but if they are not a subscriber, they may not be able to answer. So I am paying to talk to a limited audience. This does nothing for the future of the forum which is what we were sold the changes on.

But this is not the topic of this thread. So how is the forum going?

[Bytemrk]

Site stats are not falling as fast as it would have this ended differently...



out of the blue, without warning, i spent a week in critical care and nearly died


.... it simply would not exist anymore. (Very glad it didn't end that way.)

This whole process is to avoid that happening. I've been around for a long time - seen the place grow from quite small to what it is today. Over the years I know that Dave personally has tipped in large amounts of his own cash and countless hours - because he cares about what happens to the place. I assure you if there was another way Dave would have taken it.

Hopefully I am reading some of this incorrectly, but there seems to be an insinuation that there is something shifty going on. (I do hope i have that wrong.)

Personally I think Dave is being extremely open and inclusive about all of this.

The cost is what it is.... people have a choice whether they want in or out.

No one is forcing anyone to be here. You can probably find most of the content by Googling for it is you want to go through that hassle... I certainly don't.

I am just not so sure for an $11 "investment" anyone have the right to expect a detailed audit of the site costs or interrogate the owner as to their decisions.

None of that helps the place stay the great place it has become.

[Eevo]

im here and subscribed, thats all that matters

[UncleHo]

I have no problems with having to subscribe,and I have been on here since October 2004, and if I have to increase my subscription amount I will,as I get good value from reading the posts,I also belong to Gold Coast Land Rover Club,as well as REMLR.com,matter of fact I was a founding member of REMLR,which existed well before the Internet,when it was all done by snail mail and phone calls.

Comes to think of it,my annual fees to GCLRO are due this coming Thursday :D

cheers

[Ean Austral]

I am a vendor and even tho I don't own a business that was using this site for selling some of my wares thru, I am still happy to pay the vendor membership as for me its a very small contribution for what I gain from this site.


If you are not getting $11 a year worth of info, help, tips, tutorials, or just meeting some of the great people on this site then you need to look at why you are here.. I don't like having to pay to park my car I town when not that long ago it was free, but we are in a user pays society and its only going to get worse.


If Inc is making a few $$$ out of this site then good for him, but I bet if he sat down and worked out what his hourly rate is at the end of it he would most likely wonder why he even does it at all.


Personally I struggle with why people object to someone who has done all the hard work finally being able to see a future in what they have created, and if that means they make a few bucks along the way then I say good for them.


Long live AULRO I reckon.


Cheers Ean

[joel0407]

Hopefully I am reading some of this incorrectly, but there seems to be an insinuation that there is something shifty going on. (I do hope i have that wrong.)
.

If you are refering to my post? Yes you are reading them very wrong. Not at all shifty.

I think it's just luck for Dave that his chosen hobby has turned out to return any money. Most hobbies are nothing more than expenses. They are usually things we really enjoy doing but no one else wants us to do it enough to pay us for it.

[wardy1]

Well thanks Joel for hijacking my thread!

This ws NOT designed to be a Q&A of the business model for AULRO. It was a simple question. Is it looking good now, or not?

Like many others, I've been a member here for a long time and I know that there are costs involved in running an entity such as this one.

I couldn't care less how many forums you belong to. And I care even less that they are all free. I know that THIS forum has provided me with invaluable information and more than that, I HAVE MADE SOME TRULY INCREDIBLE FRIENDS HERE!

I have travelled with many of these friends, shared a few beers, many jokes and most of all, the passion for the marque.

Now, I'd like to thank Dave for providing the stats to show that his decision has been correct. If you want nothing, then pay nothing.

[Debacle]

If you are refering to my post? Yes you are reading them very wrong. Not at all shifty.

I think it's just luck for Dave that his chosen hobby has turned out to return any money. Most hobbies are nothing more than expenses. They are usually things we really enjoy doing but no one else wants us to do it enough to pay us for it.

You really need to pull your head in a bit mate.

To suggest that this forum is a cash cow for Inc is ludicrous.

He has stated the reasons why the subscription model needed to be adopted many times and most agree that it's for the best.

If he did make any profit out of it then I would be quite happy, considering the years of work and expenses out of his own pocket to make the site what it is today.

You are suggesting in a very smart arse way that something is shifty.

[Eevo]

You really need to pull your head in a bit mate.



i dont think joel is saying Inc is making a profit and ripping us all off.

he's just pointing out that other forums of similar size, member base, etc, dont seem to have an cash flow issue.

i've wondered a few times why this forum costs so much given its smallish size, but at the end of the day, I trust Inc

[clubagreenie]

Bandwidth is the biggest ongoing cost. Equipment is the single biggest outlay.

Metered Data

1. Metered Bandwidth (FLAT inbound+outbound) Bandwidth TierCost per GB

1-5 GB$16.50
5-10 GB$13.20
11-20 GB$11.00
21-50 GB$8.80
51-100 GB$6.60
101-200 GB$5.50
201-500 GB$4.40
501+ GB$3.30

Un-metered (Circuit) Data

2. Unmetered Bandwidth (fixed circuit/shaped ethernet) Circuit SizeMonthly/MbpsMax. throughput

1 Mbps$990/Mbps320 GB
2 Mbps$935/Mbps640 GB
3 Mbps$880/Mbps960 GB
4 Mbps$825/Mbps1280 GB
5 Mbps$770/Mbps1600 GB
6 Mbps$715/Mbps1920 GB
7 Mbps$660/Mbps2240 GB


3.Unmetered 95% percentile Bandwidth Circuit SizeSwitch PortMonthly/Mbps

1Mbps 95%10Mbps$1320/Mbps
2Mbps 95%10Mbps$1100/Mbps
3Mbps 95%10Mbps$990/Mbps
4Mbps 95%10Mbps$935/Mbps
5Mbps 95%10Mbps$880/Mbps
6Mbps 95%100Mbps$825/Mbps
7Mbps 95%100Mbps$770/Mbps


So with some simple figures we could work out what it costs,not that I expect Dave to divulge.

This forum is a goldmine compared to the rabble of stuff on other sites which are usually just general chat filled and very little brass let alone gold quality info. The only other forum that compares that I know of is Toymods (toyota car (not 4wd (except V8 and 1JZ Surf's) performance forums). It's large, operates as an incorporated car club as well as forum. There's a cost there which is significantly higher than here, gives benefits as a car club (historic rego etc) and has fewer people running it and has had the same president for more years than I've been a member and they have had to deal with the same sort and more crap there. When they affiliated the forum into the car club there was the same uproar (only more due to higher cost) and people interstate didn't see a benefit as the club was NSW based. It's survived the regular school holiday influxes of idiots we don't see, infighting, departures and returns of founding members etc etc. And it was founded by 4 guys who got together after a church meeting one night and said how cool it would be to do this online.

We have a world wide brand that has a loyalty second to none really, only probably comparable to Volkswagen for consistent time in the market place.

Want to see a dictatorship, visit performance forums. It's their way or the highway. Buy from these suppliers because we say they have the best (Yeah, $400- for an anodised, undrilled length of extrusion available from smart aluminum for $20- sold as a "customisable" fuel rail with the same size bore as factory.). I've been banned from there to the point that even some of the VPN IP's were getting blocked live.

To answer your question though Joel. You'd be hard pressed to ask a question that a paying member here couldn't answer or reference for you. Sure you get the odd ones (recovery thread anyone?) but we persist anyway.

[joel0407]

Well thanks Joel for hijacking my thread!

This ws NOT designed to be a Q&A of the business model for AULRO. It was a simple question. Is it looking good now, or not?

Like many others, I've been a member here for a long time and I know that there are costs involved in running an entity such as this one.

I couldn't care less how many forums you belong to. And I care even less that they are all free. I know that THIS forum has provided me with invaluable information and more than that, I HAVE MADE SOME TRULY INCREDIBLE FRIENDS HERE!

I have travelled with many of these friends, shared a few beers, many jokes and most of all, the passion for the marque.

Now, I'd like to thank Dave for providing the stats to show that his decision has been correct. If you want nothing, then pay nothing.

The stats didn't answer your question.

And I didn't hijack your thead on my own. "RedBack" mentioned that without the subscription the forum would have eventually close. Soon after I asked why and it went from there. You will also see I have finished more than one of my posts asking for your question to be answered.

Happy Days

[Pinelli]

I think it's just luck for Dave that his chosen hobby has turned out to return any money. ...

I don't think luck has anything to do with it. This is a quality site. Compared to another well-known unnamed 4WD site that is full of action, I find the culture here very open and supportive, entertaining, and informative, with very little agro. Good effort, Dave. This doesn't happen by accident.

Like any entrepreneur, Dave has created a product that people want to pay to have. Would people like it for free? Sure. Will they pay for it? Seems many do willingly. Whether my $11 a year contributes towards just keeping the site going, or whether Dave uses it to buy a private jet so he can spend weekends in Paris soaking in champagne is really irrelevant. From my end, the subscription fee is value for money.

[LandyAndy]

Joel.
I thought everybody was over this,either you want or need to be here or you dont.
We have lost a few regulars,some not missed.
If you think Dave is making money out of this,dream on.Man hours are expensive,all done for AULRO.
I think you have missed a VERY important point.Dave got ill and almost died,IF he had died AULRO would have too,switched off over nite.The charges were introduced to ensure AULRO remains an on going entity if the most unfortunate happens.
In regaurds to all these "New" members actually being old members that refuse to contribute,join as a new member,any moderator can post here that you have a new alias;););););)
Andrew

[joel0407]

Can I just recap here.

This started when I made a post doubting the stats:

"The world hasn't ended but maybe it's not as good as some make out."

Then anothers post:

"I look at it in simple terms, without the subcriptions, the forum would eventially close."

To which I asked, why and how. Then it all started.

Yes I understand it takes a lot of time to run a forum. So do other hobbies. Yes I understand it costs money. So do other hobbies. So Dave has been able to get some money back. Good on him. I commend him. I wish I could make money from my hobbies. Well actually I do a little.

Is this best for me. No. It's not my forum. Running it's not my hobby.

Someone else looked after the Google map of where people were located with Nanocoms. Then right out of the blue he posted he wasn't doing it anymore. I was really shocked. I just thought wow, why. He said I just don't want to. It was hard for me to accept that he just didn't want to do it. It was a hard concept for me. It was just his hobby. I thought I should take it over but my problem is i have a short attention span. I'll get madly involved with something for a year or so then get board and start a new hobby. I usually go back but I dont stick with things. So I thought it best not to take it over because I would look after it well for a while then start to neglect it.

So lets just wait for Dave to respond if he wants to. I think he posted that he wouldn't get to it for sometime and really if he's not worried and not interested to know, why do it. Again, it's his hobby.

I have SLS on my D2. I love it. So many other people rip it out and run coils. Maintaining my Disco is my Hobby. If I want to run Air Bags, I will.

[discovery39]

i dont think joel is saying Inc is making a profit and ripping us all off.

he's just pointing out that other forums of similar size, member base, etc, dont seem to have an cash flow issue.

i've wondered a few times why this forum costs so much given its smallish size, but at the end of the day, I trust Inc

Ah yes Eevo, who can forget your argument about paying for subscription when it was all proposed late last year...........
Good for you, standing up for the system that you so rigorously argued against.

[Eevo]

Ah yes Eevo, who can forget your argument about paying for subscription when it was all proposed late last year...........
Good for you, standing up for the system that you so rigorously argued against.

some people learn from their mistakes.
not that i'm admitting to anything :)

[manic]

Love this forum. I respect what Dave has done. That said, there are clearer ways to secure a site for its members than just charge a fee stating it makes it more viable.

No offence but what is the plan when Dave moves on?

Would it not be better to hand over Maintanence/admin to members and make hosting costs public so that yearly fundraising targets could be met and offers/decisions made by the community on cheaper more viable hosting options.

Dave has mentioned before on this site that it is not a democracy, he rules.

If he wants to see this site go on without him he should first look to open it up and release some control. Charging a subscription creates greater responsibility....... Whatever the plan, i'm a paid subscriber now - long may this site continue.

[EastFreo]

Literally a couple of minutes ago I renewed my membership to silver.

I started to benefit from this forum not long before all the subscription debate. Having enjoyed the benefits of it free for a while and then now I upped my member ship due to what I get out of it.

I have never paid for anything on line but I will say this is a unique forum. I do think people should be able to have free access on a limited or time basis so they can see how good it it is because they will join.

The danger is by demanding payment people won't join what I have found is a great community.

At the end of the day thank you to all the people - paid or otherwise - that keep this site going. I come here everyday and I might not know you all personally but from the posts here there are many of you I would be happy to host as you travel through on your journeys (in your Land Rover of course).

[incisor]

Love this forum. I respect what Dave has done. That said, there are clearer ways to secure a site for its members than just charge a fee stating it makes it more viable.

No offence but what is the plan when Dave moves on?

Would it not be better to hand over Maintanence/admin to members and make hosting costs public so that yearly fundraising targets could be met and offers/decisions made by the community on cheaper more viable hosting options.

Dave has mentioned before on this site that it is not a democracy, he rules.

If he wants to see this site go on without him he should first look to open it up and release some control. Charging a subscription creates greater responsibility....... Whatever the plan, i'm a paid subscriber now - long may this site continue.
Most of what you speak is already underway

[Tombie]

Were actually paying a subscription, all proceeds are being channelled into research and construction of a bionic, cyber-Inc.

We will then upload his consciousness into Cyber-Inc and he will live on for ever...

[Disco Muppet]

We can build him, we have the technology...

Sent from my HTC One using AULRO mobile app

[Dark61]

I wasn't sure at the time when the subscription was introduced and again , at the time , wasn't sure that if I had stumbled across it as I did and there was a fee involved I'd have subscribed. I was also confused as to what you got for your $11.00 so I think the try it and see thing is a good idea. Operating at my level of ignorance , the forum is invaluable to me and I do appreciate the advice generously given. Worth every bit of the $11.00 for me.
cheers,
D

[Basil135]

Inc & this forum have my support.

Where else can I gain friends, get a stack of brilliant advice, and get my blood pressure raised, for such a cheap price?

All that is left to be said is:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1289.jpg

[MR LR]

Inc & this forum have my support.

Where else can I gain friends, get a stack of brilliant advice, and get my blood pressure raised, for such a cheap price?

All that is left to be said is:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1289.jpg
Cheap? All you lot do is tempt me to spend money :p

[loneranger]

When Inc introduced the current structure I paid the $11 to see how it panned out. From my point of view as an ordinary member not a mod or anything I can't say I've noticed much difference in the site with the changes. Sure a few people dropped off and new people joined (generally as they purchased Landrovers). When my membership comes due next year I will increase my subscription as I have recouped my $11 many times over in the last few months in completing electrical mods to our Defenders.

A point to ponder for those that still whinge about the paltry $11 annual subscription is that I used to browse a kayak fishing forum as a non-member and without warning the owner sold the forum to a international company which turned it into one giant advertising board. As the owner he was quite within his rights to do this. There was a big backlash from the forum members about how they owned their posts and many people went and deleted all of their posts. Some of these ran into the thousands. A lot of members left and now the forum is hardly visited. I'm sure this is a scenario no-one would like to see happen here.