Reverse Stall Recovery Question plus ETC problem.

[DiscoStew]

After owning it since April 9th, I finally took the Disco off-road on the week-end to do a 4WD training course. The first exercise was a reverse stall recovery.

The four drivers before me had no problem at all. I sucked big time. I am quite prepared to believe it was driver incompetence.

However the main instructor concluded that the reverse gearing in the Dsico was too high which made my ego feel better but actually made me feel worse because I worry that the car is not up to it WHICH I KNOW NOT TO BE TRUE.

I will point out that the class was amazed at how easily I handled the other obstacles so it was only this one aspect that I felt inferior on.

I also have to say the main instructor was a painful Nissan driver and made it clear what he felt about Landrovers so was probably a bit trigger happy in blaming the car's capability in reversing down a steep slope.

So the first question is: <span style="color:blue">Has anybody found the Disco's reverse gearing to be too high or do I just need to go and get some practice and/or better tuition?</span>

This issue came to a head when halfway round the final trail drive my dashboard lit up with ABS, TC and HDC warning lights and I could not traverse a tricky climb. The good thing is I recieved a quick on-the-spot lesson, and lots or practice, on how to use the brake to simulate traction control and completed the trail easily.

I have done lots of seraching on this forum and could not find a specific reference to this problem but got the impression that electronic traction control is a common problem with the Disco.

Second question: <span style="color:blue">Can anyone confirm, deny or comment on if electronic traction control is a common problem with the Disco?</span>

Still under statuatory warranty, the dealer is replacing the ABS module.

Any comments would be much appreciated and I will try to learn how to make my posts shorter.

Cheers
Paul

[Larry]

G'day Paul,

I think your instructor is full of it, typical nissan driver. I have been involved in driver training in my club for 15 years and have never heard such CRAP! Stall recovery can be done in a corolla, it's just that some people get the knack straight away and others take a bit longer, that doesn't make you a bad driver.

Just keep at it and then you can go back and show him how good Land Rovers really are style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

Larry.

[DirtyDawg]

Sounds like some 4wd technology is way too out there...wouldn't want to be stuck out in the desert with a faulty Traction control or ABS or SRS failure.dicky computer etc.4WD's designers should keep to the old KISS formula instead of being influenced by the around town only, middle income earners.
With practice I'm sure you will get to places where the nissan drivers can watch in awe..with all my years in the Army driving 110's and SERIII's with skinny tyres and standard suspension I have never had a Landrover let me down.. So persevere mate and ignore the Japanese impersonators.. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[DiscoStew]

I am not at all worried about the Nissan driver attitude. I am too old, too ugly to care. I believe Landrovers are better, that's why I bought it.

I don't mind if it was my competence, I have every confidence in my ability to learn how to do it with practice. Like everyone, some things I get straight away, some things take a while. My ego is not at risk here :roll:

Am just wondering if I need to address the reverse gear issue or was he just too ready to blame the car because of his bias. Or perhaps he wanted to make me feel better, or cover up his inability to teach me :evil: I have to admit he was great when I got stuck, taught me under the pressure of the moment exactly what to do, so I am not suggesting he was incompetent.

I may also re-engage CDL and put in axle lockers to remove reliance on ETC but in the meantime I am happy with the two foot technique until I save some $$$>

[one_iota]

Presuming the Disco was in low range no issue.

The technique is a bit daunting and counter intuitive at first so practice is the key. Find yourself a gentle and forgiving place to practice reversing in low R. Don't worry about stall recovery at first just get used to the reverse gear. Then try a stall recovery.

I used to do this on my parents steep and slippery brick driveway.

Soon it will become second nature. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[DaveS3]

Originally posted by one_iota

Soon it will become second nature. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

It sure does become 2nd nature.

Now learn to stab accelerater down the steepest hills to keep traction and steering style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif
Thats fun....

Dave.

[Rosco]

I had occasion to use the procedure for real last weekend, on a very steep and slippery track at Levuka (NSW). Let me say here and now .. after my sphincter let go of the seat cover 8O, it was the best bit of knowledge I've ever accrued style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

As for you issue, one crowd at our training camp had a similar prob with their Disco. As I recall it had something to do with the HDC which of course is absent on the fender ... we get a CDL instead style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif . Either they needed to engage it or disengage, don't recall which. Perhaps that was your prob. Which mode were you in? Maybe need to try the other when you get a chance.

Cheers

[PhilipA]

Firstly, re the reverse recovery. I have seen videos of Discos where the ABS does not work in reverse and the front wheels lock. I am not sure that it is a Series 11 or not.

Second All ETC will only work for a while when being used heavily and will overheat and be disengaged by the computer. This is maybe why your lights came on. It is entirely normal. The ETC uses the ABS accumulator and pump which has a finite time of use before heating up. This is one of the reasons that the CDL helps.
The ABS and ETC are not Rover parts but I believe made by Wabco. I have seen tests where Toyotas do the same thing.
Regard s Philip A

[DiscoStew]

Originally posted by Rosco


As for you issue, one crowd at our training camp had a similar prob with their Disco. As I recall it had something to do with the HDC which of course is absent on the fender ... we get a CDL instead :) . Either they needed to engage it or disengage, don't recall which. Perhaps that was your prob. Which mode were you in? Maybe need to try the other when you get a chance.

Cheers

I did not turn on HDC because I wanted to learn how to drive without it. I did not think of using "manual" mode on the auto. I put it in low range reverse.

[Bytemrk]

Hi Discostew,

I agree with the others ... your Nissan bias trainer doesn't know what he is talking about!

I did a course with LROCV, all the DiscoIIs there handled stalls without a problem... so it is NOT the gearing.

You're right, it is good to understand and be familiar with the techniques used without HDC. But.... you will find HDC works awesomely.... as long as you don't touch the brakes.

As far as ETC... it's a LOT better than most of the knockers think - no doubt if you re installed a CDL kit it will help. But properly Driven ETC is a godsend.
As for those that think it is a crisis if it fails - Garbage - Try pulling the ETC fuse under the bonnet - you will get 3 lights on the dash.. ABS, ETC and HDC will no longer work. But the car dives fine!... Braking is fine and the only weakness you would have comared to any earlier disco is no locked centre diff.

Obviously too much electronic complexity outback can be an issue - but as far as ABS and ETC.... they are beneficial extras you have.

I'm planning on adding a CDL kit to mine and I defy any standard nissotoyamitshomyjig to out drive a Disco II in a fair comparison. :twisted:

[rmp]

I am an instructor and have trained many people in various Discos. The low range is not a problem, as a simple calcuation of the rear crawl ratio will indicate. It's better than any Nissan for starters.

Now the Disco II does have a problem, and that's called lack of a centre diff. If you try and overdrive the brakes, or touch them in any way it is possible to lock up the uphill set of wheels. This is not good, and is not possible with the centre diff locked as the the front and rear axles must rotate. It is for this reason we teach hill descents using HDC only in Disco IIs with no CDL.

You can however safely stall/stop in a Disco II. The only vehicle you can't do this in is something like certain Jeep models which need a fuse pulled before you can start them with the clutch up.

The instructor you had should be shot. Too high gearing indeed, I never heard of such twaddle!!!

[DiscoStew]

Thanks for the further feedback. Even though there are some mild differences on opinion, all your comments have been consistent with each other, and with all the symptoms I had, and also very educational to a raw newbie.

It is an auto so I didn't actually have to stall it, but they called it that anyway. It was the reversing that I sucked at with the brakes locking all the time. I have decided that even though the ETC is very good I am still going to get the centre diff activated cause I do not want to depend on HDC working, especially given I have had it malfunction already (get a new ABS modulator tomorrow so hopefully it won't happen again)

plus find somewhere to practice, practice, practice.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Try pulling the ETC fuse under the bonnet - you will get 3 lights on the dash.. ABS, ETC and HDC will no longer work.[/b][/quote]

Exactly the symptoms I had and by use of two foot technique could drive anyway. Wasn't easy but I went everywhere the Toyos/Nissans went, often still smoother. So I agree, the electronics worked great and when they broke, the car still went great (once I was taught how which is exactly why you do the training)


Cheers
Paul

[rmp]

Originally posted by DiscoStew
Thanks for the further feedback. Even though there are some mild differences on opinion, all your comments have been consistent with each other, and with all the symptoms I had, and also very educational to a raw newbie.

It is an auto so I didn't actually have to stall it, but they called it that anyway. It was the reversing that I sucked at with the brakes locking all the time. I have decided that even though the ETC is very good I am still going to get the centre diff activated cause I do not want to depend on HDC working, especially given I have had it malfunction already (get a new ABS modulator tomorrow so hopefully it won't happen again)

plus find somewhere to practice, practice, practice.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Try pulling the ETC fuse under the bonnet - you will get 3 lights on the dash.. ABS, ETC and HDC will no longer work.

Exactly the symptoms I had and by use of two foot technique could drive anyway. Wasn't easy but I went everywhere the Toyos/Nissans went, often still smoother. So I agree, the electronics worked great and when they broke, the car still went great (once I was taught how which is exactly why you do the training)


Cheers
Paul[/b][/quote]

DS, we've changed the name of the "Stall Stop" to "Emergency Stop" and technique for manuals is "Stall Stop". This is precisely because it made no sense to call the thing a stall stop when it clearly wasn't.

If you do not have a CDL in your D2 then do not overdrive the brakes at all, for reasons I explained above. HDC should be used instead. ETC will do a much better job of torque transfer than your feet ever could.

It was not your fault the wheels locked (the uphill wheels, right?) it is LR's fault for not including a CDL in the first place.

Get a CDL ASAP.

[HSVRangie]

As per RMP.

Michael.

[adm333]

Hi Discostew

Can you PM me the details of the course you did and how much it was ?

If you recommend it that is !

I am in Brisbane and could use such training.

Cheers

Dave