L322 madness

[Pancake35]

Hi all,
I have become deeply smitten after a ride in a friends l322 hse last week.... this also coincides with the need for me to buy a new car. :twisted:
The link below is to a TD6 that caught my eye -
2002 Land Rover Range Rover HSE 03MY (http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Land-Rover-Range-Rover-2002/OAG-AD-1639112)
My father says i am crazy to think i can run a rangey of this vintage on a relatively shoe string budget (2nd year apprentice wage).
I have had a mercedes of the same era and found the parts costs to be high but manageable because i am able to do my own work.
I know there are a million threads on this but i feel i have to hear it from the horses mouth before my dreams are 100% quashed by reality.... can these cars be ran cheaply and reliably ?? Or am i mad and going to send my self bank rupt on my meager wage?
:(
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Mitch,

[33chinacars]

No not madness . But make sure that the auto has been rebuilt . Thats there major problem. Looks like a nice car, go for it . Sure others will have different ideas

[justinc]

Mitch go for it. As already stated budget for an auto trans rebuild which is about 7k. You will not drive a better model of range rover in my opinion. The trans is easy to replace which will save you about 1k already if you are doing it yourself. Like I said best model range rover made after the classic series. So what if you have to take the bus for a while every now and then? Dreams are important to fulfill I say! !!☺☺.

[Homestar]

Hey Mitch, Welcome to the forum. :)

Mine costs very little to maintain properly, filters are cheap, service the engine regularly and it will reward you with many years of reliable service. These things chew through brakes, but they're not that expensive to do - either pads or disks.

Mind you, remember it's an old car now, so things may crop up along the way. Mines got 235,000KM on it now (just serviced it this morning before SWMBO went to work) and I have done a few bigger ticket items like turbo, front struts/airbags, compressor. These can be expensive, but shop around (I'd recommend overseas although I try to keep my parts spend local, it isn't always possible).

If you can swing your own spanners, then you'll be right. Despite what some say, these vehicles are very good to work on and not that hard for most things.

The TD6 will use around 12 to 13 Litres per 100KM around town, less than 9 on the freeway and our overall average is around 11. Pretty good for such a large car, but not what you'd call light on fuel. The V8 uses quite a bit more if you end up looking at one, and the V8 engines are a bit more complicated and need more attention as they get older, but go great and sound awesome.

Trans have already been mentioned, if there's no evidence - and I mean written evidence showing what was done - then walk away or haggle $7,000 off the price to allow for this. It's a buyers market for these cars, so don't be sucked in to buying the first one you see if you think it's not right, there are plenty of others. Don't be fooled by anything the sales rep says, he will be full of ****.

When looking at a vehicle, make sure everything works - all the electrics, suspension height, steering column in/out, etc. there's a lot to look at on one of these, so if you go and look at one, ask on here to see if someone will tag along that knows them. :). I live in Melbourne and would be happy to help out in this regard if you want. PM me your phone number, and we can have a chat. :)

Just noticed that one is in South Melbourne - I'll be in that area today, I might pop in and have a look. :)

Once you've owned one, you'll be hooked. All the best with your search.

[Grumbles]

Offering to have a squiz for Mitch is very decent of you Baci - full marks to you. AULRO hits the mark again.

But what does "need more attention" mean in relation to the V8s?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

You do realise Mitch,, that every car after this one will be a lesser car,,:cool:
and the only way this car could be better if it was in British Racing Green,,:cool::cool:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/927.jpg

[Blade74]

Looks cool.
So once you've spent the $7k on fixing a transmission. Do they fit different parts to it to make it stronger?
Or is it still susceptible to just failing again?

[Blade74]

Also can he remove the front bumper bar and still have a perfect paint job or does that bar damage the front paintwork. Eg is it best left on?

[Strangerover]

Looks cool.
So once you've spent the $7k on fixing a transmission. Do they fit different parts to it to make it stronger?
Or is it still susceptible to just failing again?

Depends who does the work. There's a guy in Bayswater who fits an upgraded HD torque converter, resleeves the valve body with a Sonnax kit, various other upgraded bits as required- clutch packs etc. Others will just repair to original standard, which frankly just isn't good enough.

Got to say, that car has a rather boring interior- no wood, and those grey seats don't do it for me. (Wood kits can be added later, but changing the seats is a much bigger deal). Don't be in a hurry to buy this one, plenty of others will come along. Of course if you really dig grey plastic, go right ahead. Won't judge! :D ;)

Edit: The Bayswater guy quoted me substantially less than the $7k often quoted around here, he was talking something in the order of $5.5k.

[Grumbles]

I think Strangerover is on the money. If you are going to get an L322 then go the full disaster - get a Vogue. An interior with light [cream] coloured areas and wood inserts will look larger and far more luxurious than a Plain Jane all dark interior.

[chaybra]

I do the same swinging spanners on my rangie and I just love the mechanical simplicity! Sounds strange I know but they are fantastically engineered bits of kit.

I like to push mine as far as it will go and despite a front strut letting go and a low pressure fuel pump, its yet to cost me some serious money!
First thing I did when buying was change the TC for a heavy duty one, its my understanding that the excessive wear of the TC clutch (due to the stupid tune RR gave it) sends foreign material thru the system where the valve body is susceptible to the wear, thus causing the low pressure and making the problem even worse.

Not to mention they are bloody unreal on the dirt, go for it! everything is cheap when you can do it yourself

[Homestar]

Looks cool.
So once you've spent the $7k on fixing a transmission. Do they fit different parts to it to make it stronger?
Or is it still susceptible to just failing again?

Yes, you can get them built better than they were, but they are still a flawed design. One of the biggest problems from new was that they were never serviced and 'sealed for life' which just increased the wear rate as they got older. A good rebuild and good maintenance should see it live the car out.


Also can he remove the front bumper bar and still have a perfect paint job or does that bar damage the front paintwork. Eg is it best left on?

Front bumper can genrally be removed without leaving marks.

I went to look at this vehicle today, but it was at the Mechanics getting a once over so the salesman told me. I'll se if I can get back to it this week.

[Strangerover]

Not to mention they are bloody unreal on the dirt, go for it! f

Can confirm they're great on the dirt, took her to some ridiculously steep tracks with the Vic LR club recently and she didn't miss a beat.. and with an armchair ride!

[Strangerover]

I think Strangerover is on the money. If you are going to get an L322 then go the full disaster - get a Vogue. An interior with light [cream] coloured areas and wood inserts will look larger and far more luxurious than a Plain Jane all dark interior.

I concur.

This has nothing to do with the fact that mine is Epsom Green with biscuit leather and wood inserts... :p

[Grumbles]

I concur.

This has nothing to do with the fact that mine is Epsom Green with biscuit leather and wood inserts... :p

Now that is the absolute ultimate..................."jealous emoticon"......so c'mooon..........chuck a piccy up so Mitch can see what to aim for......:D

[33chinacars]

Just do it . Have a look at a few. Think I looked at 8 before buying mine. Both V8 & TD6 . Went for TD6 for the economy & low down torque. But loved the way the V8 went. Like **** off a shovel.

Here's the brake down of my auto . GM 5L40E

Mechanic $ 750
New Trans Cooler $ 485.60 . Could have got this cheaper
Transport of auto $ 553 From Portland to Brisbane return
Rebuild auto $ 5579 This included a new clutch drum & output shaft ( this added $ 1100 to the price) Sonnax valve body . Machine valve body & front pump. Carbonfibre clutch plates

Total $ 7367.60 + 20 litres of trans fluid

[p38arover]

I wish you blokes wouldn't start threads like this. It makes me want to look at the L322 again and, as a pensioner, I can't afford one. :(

[Strangerover]

Now that is the absolute ultimate..................."jealous emoticon"......so c'mooon..........chuck a piccy up so Mitch can see what to aim for......:D

Here's a couple, don't seem to have any of the interior just at the moment... Will try and snap some tomorrow.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/55uce4gna1s3qvv/2014-03-30%2016.02.33.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6fwmh4cw61pmqcl/2014-04-23%2010.47.57.jpg


Ain't she a beauty?

[Homestar]

Offering to have a squiz for Mitch is very decent of you Baci - full marks to you. AULRO hits the mark again.

But what does "need more attention" mean in relation to the V8s?

The V8's don't last as long as the TD6 before needing things replaced on the engine. Coolant issues, head and timing issues all seem fairly common once they get over 200,000KM. The TD6 doesn't seem to suffer as much.

[Grumbles]

Ain't she a beauty?

Indubitably so!

Cheers for the pics. All mud and slush outside and chique and swish inside.


I wish you blokes wouldn't start threads like this. It makes me want to look at the L322 again and, as a pensioner, I can't afford one. :(

Me too but.....it is only dollars - you know.....numbers on a page in optional red or black colour - to change :( to :)

[Strangerover]

Indubitably so!

Cheers for the pics. All mud and slush outside and chique and swish inside.

Oh and here's some from when both her front airbags let go, prompting the rear to go skywards... I'm informed that in farming circles this is known as 'presenting'. ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p7wqqq76r1441xd/2014-03-05%2012.01.08.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qfd70ovvw8j5ufp/2014-03-06%2018.40.28.jpg

[Rextheute]

I'm biased and slightly mad ..... Buy one - doesn't have to be that one , that is a very nice looking vehicle tho .

Or , do what I did - buy a P38 to 'practice' on if you like it upgrade to the l322 , a P38 will be cheap , mostly because the general public is terrified of them !

I am perfectly happy with my old banger , I've done a couple of preventative maintenance things , which as the other chaps have already hinted at the areas of concern on an L322 .

You are already ahead of the game - you are in the trade , use the skills to your advantage .

Good luck !

[Grumbles]

Oh and here's some from when both her front airbags let go, prompting the rear to go skywards... I'm informed that in farming circles this is known as 'presenting'. ;)


She's not presenting. She is a lady - bowing and curtseying to her many admirers.

Looks great all clean and shiny. it's almost a shame to hit the muddy trails.

[Strangerover]

She's not presenting. She is a lady - bowing and curtseying to her many admirers.

The lineup of taxi drivers at Tullamarine Airport who saw this unseemly display weren't admiring so much as laughing uncontrollably, but maybe they were just dazzled by her beauty...

Here's that promise inside shot, OP. As Grumbles says, feels much more spacious than the grey interior:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yrrcwbakr0v3hf6/2015-05-14%2010.13.46.jpg

[Grumbles]

Thanks for the effort in posting an interior pic Strangerover. :D

That is a stunning and desirable interior.

[Strangerover]

Thanks for the effort in posting an interior pic Strangerover. :D

That is a stunning and desirable interior.

Yes, LR did a great job designing the L322. Not bad for a 13-y-o car, it still holds up well against the competition. The new Rangies, both Sport and FF, are however absolutely magnificent. It'll be a long time before I get my hands on one though, they're a bit dear for my pocket. I plan on enjoying this one for many years.

[Homestar]

The lineup of taxi drivers at Tullamarine Airport who saw this unseemly display weren't admiring so much as laughing uncontrollably, but maybe they were just dazzled by her beauty...

Here's that promise inside shot, OP. As Grumbles says, feels much more spacious than the grey interior:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yrrcwbakr0v3hf6/2015-05-14%2010.13.46.jpg


That's the interior I wanted but at the time with 2 kids and 3 dogs using it I was told 'No'... :D

[Strangerover]

That's the interior I wanted but at the time with 2 kids and 3 dogs using it I was told 'No'... :D

There's a lot to be said for vinyl seats and a rubber floor that can be hosed out. Why don't these things come with a free Defender?

[rar110]

L322s are surprisingly easy to keep clean. I have the parchment interior, which I regularly wipe over with baby wipes.

I keep a brush in the car to keep the floor and mats tidy.

However, my off road use is mainly beach driving.

[Grumbles]

I have always carred two Weimaraners around in my cars as permanent companions and we spend a lot of time in the bush - especially during winter. Judicious use of a $2 Supacheap plastic tarp under cloth seat covers and high walled mud mats on the floor have seen the interiors maintain their new look. You would never know any of my cars have been dog transport. However - I have never before seen paw prints on my dash until I added a King Charles Cavalier Spaniel to the mix......sigh.

[Homestar]

Ok, just had a look at the car the OP linked in. It is a locally owned and maintained vehicle, with full service history. It is in good condition both inside and out with only usual wear of the foundry finish around the seat bases, and a bit on the instrument panel. Roof lining hasn't sagged. It wasn't ready for a road test, so only static things checked. Everything I could check works. Front diff recall has been done.

That's the good news.

Now for the bad news...

I couldn't check the suspension because it had a host of active faults including all the usual suspects when a battery is on the way out - and it is. When I started the car, it cranked very slowly and just fired. Much bonging of the alarm system...

The 'Check coolant' alarm was also active and upon inspection there was only water in the cooling system. Oh, and the bonnet struts are shot - I copped a bonnet in the head while under there...

Biggest issue I found was - you guessed it - the transmission. When I first started it, I dropped it into drive and it took about 5 seconds before anything like movement happened. I went through all the service records and there is almost every service invoice, but no mention of the transmission being done. The seller (a prestige car yard) couldn't offer me any more info on this either.

The other thing that rang an alarm bell for me was the amount of KM - or lack of - it had done in the last 18 months. Only about 8,000KM working off the service book. Before that, it done around 13 to 15KKM per year. Maybe they bought another car and didn't use it much - I don't know. I didn't get the previous owners details although these would be available.

After discussions the transmission issue with the Sales guy, I asked what they wanted for it - about $22K on the road. I asked if he would take $15K for it to allow for a transmission rebuild - he wasn't impressed by that. He said he come come down to $20K. I thanked him for his time.

So, with a stuffed battery, unknown cooling system condition and suspect transmission, my recommendation would be to walk away from this one IMO.

This is all just of course my opinion and should not be relied on as a professional test of the vehicle.

Cheers - Gav.

[CSBrisie]

well done mate - great write up!!

[Blade74]

Wow Gav, such a top bloke to go have a look and report back on it.

[Homestar]

Wow Gav, such a top bloke to go have a look and report back on it.

Don't go telling everyone that - I'll end up with a reputation! :D

I'm happy to try and offer assistance. These vehicles can bite the unwary on the arse pretty quick as even a bad example can present well and fool someone who falls in love with the way they drive - like everyone does.

I would prefer people take their time and get the right car. After all, these early examples are now 13 years old, and although the engineering is brilliant, nothing lasts forever.

I think I've had a spanner on almost every nut and bolt on mine now, including head R&R, turbo, suspension, brakes etc so I feel I'm at least partly qualified to make an educated comment on them.

I love these vehicles to bits so any chance I get to drive one is always a good day. Remember that SWMBO drives ours everyday, whereas I'm stuck in a Captiva... Hardly seems fair to be honest as I keep the big lump on the road... (The car, not the missus... :D)

[Strangerover]

Remember that SWMBO drives ours everyday, whereas I'm stuck in a Captiva... Hardly seems fair to be honest as I keep the big lump on the road... (The car, not the missus... :D)

A Captiva? That qualifies as cruel and unusual punishment if there's a FFRR to be had instead!

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[Blade74]

Can't you swap? You've let her drive the RR too long and now she'll never give it up.

[Homestar]

Unfortunately the Craptiva is a company car so no choice... It and the mighty Vectra are the only non LR vehicles in our driveway.

As nice as the L322 is, I find myself more drawn to the 101 on the weekends, so I really don't drive the L322 much even though I love it.

Anyway, it's too late - she will never give it up. Originally, I was all set to buy her a brand new Mazda 3 diesel - great little car, but me and my big mouth said 'you should really drive an L322 Rangie before making up you mind'. Worst words that ever came out my mouth.. :)

[Grumbles]

This is the thing with L322 Range Rovers. Even though they are now up to 13 years old which is old by most standards ? they still look like new. What is unsettling is that I see 2002 to 2004 L322s up for sale in the $20G to $22G bracket and in the covered distance category of 100,000 kms to 150,000 kms yet there is advice that even at that low kilometreage major, very expensive items will need replacing. Something which I don't see in the much more common equivalent larger Japanese fourbies.

Is it better as Rextheute suggested to purchase a P38 for $5G to $10G bracket or even less bur certain in the knowledge of what the major fail points are. That is the EAS components, the heater core, the blend motors, the engine cooling system and if you are really unlucky the engine top end will need refurbishing. Countering this is the low priced P38s I see advertised with rebuilt, low kilometreage engines and a solid preventative maintenance history with major componenets already attended to.



Does this mean that a low ball priced P38 with some $10G thrown at it could end up being a strong and reliable performer for the next 5 years or so for around a total $15G all up. Will it be more reliable and cheaper to own than an L322?

I wonder what happened to the OP - Mitch. Did we frighten him away? I hope not.

[Strangerover]

Grumbles, are there any major L322 items apart from the trans, compressor and airbags? Seems to me if you can negotiate the cost of a trans rebuild in your purchase price you've got a fair deal for a lot of car. The Achilles heel of the P38 is the block. Once the liners let go your up for a new one, or a rebuild with top hat liners. Not a pleasant experience, I've had one do that to me. Cost is comparable with a trans rebuild, airbags and compressor are a consumable like the L322. The P38 isn't as good off road, and has a much harsher ride. I know which one I'd pick!

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[Grumbles]

Strangerover I'll refer back to one of Bacicats earlier posts in this thread re the V8 in answer to your question.

Q - The V8's don't last as long as the TD6 before needing things replaced on the engine. Coolant issues, head and timing issues all seem fairly common once they get over 200,000KM. The TD6 doesn't seem to suffer as much.- UQ

Just for clarification I only think in terms of petrol cars and fourbies. Living in a small town of some 3 kms in diameter max there are many short trips so I don't think diesel is the answer. I see a lot of runout model diesel Mitsi Tritons have turned up here and they all do several daily school type runs of 1 to 3 kms with maybe a 100 km return trip for major shopping days to the nearest regional centre once every two/three weeks or so.

Re the ride quality. I have had two rides in a P38 but never sat in an L322 and never seen one up close. In fact I have only seen maybe a dozen max of them on the road in total. Rural Vic and Rangies are not a popular mix.

[Strangerover]

Yep, diesel all the way for an L322. Having said that, i had forgotten about having to replace the injectors in mine, that wasn't cheap. The car had done 320km so to be expected i suppose.

Re. Ride quality, the P38 was a big disappointment compared to my old '83 4-door classic which was amazing. If OP can't afford an L322 perhaps he should look at a clean late classic?

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[PhilipA]

I wonder what happened to the OP - Mitch. Did we frighten him away? I hope not.
I hope you blokes did!
IMHO an L322 or even a D3 is not a car for a 2nd year apprentice, unless his father is very helpful and loaded.
Its all right to lust after a supermodel but you don't marry them.

I have to say that EVERY L322 owner that I talk to during drinks after Range Rover Club NSW meetings has the most horrific tales, of transmissions failing even on V8s. One bloke on a trip had to drive from Broken Hill to Adelaide on the bump stops and pull out of the trip ,even though all that was needed was a reset. AFAIK the club is now buying a testbook because of these problems.

I recall about 10 years ago when they were reasonably new, I had a rear seal on my RRC done at British and Swedish Narrabeen and there was a L322 with the top end off the BMW V8. I said to the Mechanic," what 's the go? I thought these BMW V8s were great" . He said they are great in BMWs but a disaster in L322s.
The problem is IMHO that all the bits are horrendously expensive unless you have the facilities and nouse to DIY. How much are front strut assemblies? Turbos? Injectors? transmissions?
What if the young 2nd year apprentice had bought the black one? Up **** creek without a paddle.


Regards Philip A

[Blade74]

Philip are you saying even the later model TDV8 with the 6 speed auto also had many issues

[Homestar]

I hope you blokes did!
IMHO an L322 or even a D3 is not a car for a 2nd year apprentice, unless his father is very helpful and loaded.
Its all right to lust after a supermodel but you don't marry them.

I have to say that EVERY L322 owner that I talk to during drinks after Range Rover Club NSW meetings has the most horrific tales, of transmissions failing even on V8s. One bloke on a trip had to drive from Broken Hill to Adelaide on the bump stops and pull out of the trip ,even though all that was needed was a reset. AFAIK the club is now buying a testbook because of these problems.

I recall about 10 years ago when they were reasonably new, I had a rear seal on my RRC done at British and Swedish Narrabeen and there was a L322 with the top end off the BMW V8. I said to the Mechanic," what 's the go? I thought these BMW V8s were great" . He said they are great in BMWs but a disaster in L322s.
The problem is IMHO that all the bits are horrendously expensive unless you have the facilities and nouse to DIY. How much are front strut assemblies? Turbos? Injectors? transmissions?
What if the young 2nd year apprentice had bought the black one? Up **** creek without a paddle.


Regards Philip A

An idea of parts costs. These are in AU dollars, either availble from local suppliers or delivered to your door. I haven't replaced all of thes on my car by the way, but a few of them. This gives a reasonable cross section IMO. The vehicle is easy to work on, as is the TD6 - which is a very strong and reliable engine.

OEM Front strut complete with airbag - $450
Turbo - $720 - Genuine brand new Garret VNT
Service kit - $65 (plus oil)
Front Brake pads - $72
Front disk - $120 each
Brake wear sensor - $15
Injectior rebuild - $115 each
Injector (new) - $350 each
Glow plugs - $15 each
Transmission - $5,000 + labour

Apart from the trannie, none of those parts are very expensive IMO. In face, things like brakes and servicing are cheaper to do than Falcoms or Commodores.

[Disco Muppet]

Items like service kits, brakes, etc are cheaper than what I pay for the same items on my d2 going off those prices gav.
I know plenty of apprentices with 10s of thousands tied up in car mods and accessories.
You want to order top shelf, you have to pay for it.

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[Pancake35]

Thank you bacicat for your review and comments on the car. I to went and saw the car and as you said the transmission not taking gear was obvious - i didn't even bother to drive the car....
As for the p38 comments i would love a p38 but unfortunately VIC p plate laws prohibit us from driving v8s..... :(
Ahhhh i am still torn.....
mitch

[Strangerover]

i would love a p38 but unfortunately VIC p plate laws prohibit us from driving v8s..... :(


Is it the fact it's a v-8, the engine capacity or is it the power output? P38s are notoriously underpowered. My 4.0 was gutless, my 3.0 diesel has much more power and torque.

Ridiculous law, I suppose it allows you to drive one of those new Ford Whateveritis softroaders with 178kw because it's a four. Doesn't seem to take power to weight ratio into account.

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[justinc]

Surely you aren't going to compare a p38a with an l322? ??!!
The l322 is just in another solar system. ...😀

Jc

[justinc]

Items like service kits, brakes, etc are cheaper than what I pay for the same items on my d2 going off those prices gav.
I know plenty of apprentices with 10s of thousands tied up in car mods and accessories.
You want to order top shelf, you have to pay for it.

Sent from my HTC One using AULRO mobile app

Yup. Spending 20k+++ on a modified vx/vy/vz commodore like every other bogan 2nd year apprentice, or buying a td6 l322??? Thats a no brainer for starters. Just choose carefully and get a good example and you WILL be a cut above the rest in safety and style ☺☺. Jc

[33chinacars]

Surely you aren't going to compare a p38a with an l322? ??!!
The l322 is just in another solar system. ...😀

Jc

Would have to agree with JC . Started with a P38, Great car. But after driving a L322 TD6 or V8 there was no turning back. Wasn't even really looking . Big mistake to drive one. Had to have one . Just drives so much better

[Homestar]

Is it the fact it's a v-8, the engine capacity or is it the power output? P38s are notoriously underpowered. My 4.0 was gutless, my 3.0 diesel has much more power and torque.

Ridiculous law, I suppose it allows you to drive one of those new Ford Whateveritis softroaders with 178kw because it's a four. Doesn't seem to take power to weight ratio into account.

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The new laws do take into account power to weight ratio so some V8's can now be driven by P platers, and the P38 would be under this BUT the laws are not retrospective to all vehicles, so only those built after 2012 are part of the power/weight system. This means a P plater can drive a new V8 powered Landcruiser now, but still can't drive a P38 or even a wheezy 3.5 V8 in an eary RRC. A stupid law...

[Pancake35]

Still on the hunt ..
Hoping to find a a hse td6 in black with a replaced trans for under 20k...

[Homestar]

They are out there, be patient and you'll find the right one. :)

[jsp]

Still on the hunt ..
Hoping to find a a hse td6 in black with a replaced trans for under 20k...

do your research on the replaced trans, just because it has a "dealer fitted new unit" with a dealer receipt to show doesn't mean its a good one!

[Grumbles]

..... just because it has a "dealer fitted new unit" with a dealer receipt to show doesn't mean its a good one!

Can you expand on this please JSP?

[jsp]

Can you expand on this please JSP?

I bought my L322 after doing lots of research and passing up on quite a number of cars. In the end, after a year, I settled for one which wasn't the exact trim I was after but the price was right and the service history impeccable, notably a dealer fitted replacement trans at full new price just over 10 thousand k's before I bought it.

I had it serviced twice by TRS and was all good until it started playing up 60 thousand K's later to which I investigated to find the dealers use reconditioned units from a large Victorian based firm, if the car is not still under factory warranty.

As Bacicat, Strangerover, Justinc etc hopefully agree, rebuilds aint rebuilds unless done properly! The firm who reco'd mine have a policy of stripping a trans and only replacing "out of factory spec" parts as they are a large core swap type model of transmission repair business.

When my unit played up it was seen that line pressure was just starting to dip below the minimum spec, and whilst the main pump was still within spec, they machined it and replaced parts at my request. Most of the rest of the trans was worn and a full rebuild was done, sad as it had only 72K on it, but who knows how many k's some of the parts had on them before they were re-used in the reco.

This isn't to scare you, just to point out that unless you can talk to the shop who did the reco, and you know what exactly they did to it, don't expect 200 thousand k's out of a car which has recently had a trans done. Budget for issues.

I believe they can be reconditioned and give another 150 plus K's, but my local land rover independent says its not worth the bother and to buy a lower kilometer unit from a wreck and take your chances and get the same life span.

[Strangerover]

So did they say 'dealer fitted NEW transmission', or 'dealer fitted reconditioned transmission'?

i.e. Did they lie?

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[jsp]

So did they say 'dealer fitted NEW transmission', or 'dealer fitted reconditioned transmission'?

i.e. Did they lie?

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Who is they?

person I bought the car of said new, the paperwork says "supply and fit replacement transmission", $9k in 2009. The paperwork is the dealer invoice. I don't blame the previous owner or dealer at all, my frustration is not pointed at the dealer but the transmission company who supplied the dealer.

Its not about he said / she said, just advising to be careful and check the history of a rebuild, as just because a car has had its trans done recently doesn't mean its going to last a reasonable timeframe. I would budget in some cash for this no matter what the history of the car.

[Strangerover]

just because a car has had its trans done recently doesn't mean its going to last a reasonable timeframe

Absolutely. Mine had a trans rebuild and the TC replaced at an unspecified time in the past. Now it's losing pressure and 5th is slipping once in a while, triggering a soft trans failsafe fault. Turning it off and on again fixes it for now, but a full rebuild done properly is on the horizon. My trans guy insists it's going to cost $5.5k no matter what's wrong, including a HD TC, HD clutches and full Sonnax kit.

[Strangerover]

Hey OP, seen this one?
Land Rover Range Rover HSE 2002 4D Wagon Automatic TD6 L322 in VIC | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Land-Rover-Range-Rover-HSE-2002-4D-Wagon-Automatic-TD6-L322-/231585506075)
New injectors and pump, trans done. Get on it mate.

[Pancake35]

To many kays and not first colour choice

[Strangerover]

Fair enough on the colour, we all have our preferences... though I'll never understand wanting to have a black car in Australia, it's just too hot.
Re. the kays, these engines will go for half a million no problems. Mine is over 300,000 and pulls strongly, no smoking or funny noises. Don't be put off by big k's if the rest of the car is sound.

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[Homestar]

Fair enough on the colour, we all have our preferences... though I'll never understand wanting to have a black car in Australia, it's just too hot.
Re. the kays, these engines will go for half a million no problems. Mine is over 300,000 and pulls strongly, no smoking or funny noises. Don't be put off by big k's if the rest of the car is sound.

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Agreed, the TD6 is a strong and long lived engine. Mine is coming up to the same KM as this one and runs like a clock and as good as the day it was made. I expect it is only half way to the grave with these KM on it.

[Blade74]

What color is that one? Is it silver or gold??

[hanko2020]

It's a metallic silvery gold :) which changes depending on the light. Also seen it referred to as blenheim silver and white gold tho' they might be entirely different colors??? My car in case you don't pick up the common user name.

[banarcus]

Now please forgive me but the gearboxes in these, are they the GM 5 speed built in France? The ones that are also used in the X5s? 5L40E or something?

I'm wondering whether a later model VE Holden uses the same box? If so, you would have a cheap source for said box and bypass the people who love to gouge the LR owners.

EDIT: I'm wrong. ZF5HP24. There goes that idea.....

[Strangerover]

The diesel has the 5L40E. My understanding is that sadly you can't just throw a GM unit in, though some of the now upgraded bits from them can be used.

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[Homestar]

Yeah, there are some bits that can be used from the commodore box, but as mentioned, not able to swap it entirely or even partly.

[Disco Muppet]

So is there anyway to improve the box at all?
I assume the issue with some sort of replacement box is trying to get all the computers to talk together happily?

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[Homestar]

So is there anyway to improve the box at all?
I assume the issue with some sort of replacement box is trying to get all the computers to talk together happily?

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Yep, plenty of ways to improve the box, although it has some fundamental flaws. And yes again on the computers - once somebody does it once and reverse engineers the code and builds a box that translates the data, I'm sure there would be plenty of others jump on it - if that ever happens.

As for me, if mine ever ****s itself again, I'll be looking at a manual conversion. I think it's possible, but wouldn't be cheap - but neither is a rebuild on the auto.

[Strangerover]

So is there anyway to improve the box at all?

Absolutely.
From an earlier post:
'There's a guy in Bayswater who fits an upgraded HD torque converter, resleeves the valve body with a Sonnax kit, various other upgraded bits as required- clutch packs etc.' The upgraded clutch packs are carbon fibre I believe. The upgraded TC is made from billet steel instead of the flimsy plate that comes standard.



I assume the issue with some sort of replacement box is trying to get all the computers to talk together happily?
I think there's more to it than that, though that would be an issue. Size of output shafts, number of splines etc. I think. Somebody will hopefully be along shortly who knows much more about it than I, but I think that's the gist of it.

[Homestar]

I think there's more to it than that, though that would be an issue. Size of output shafts, number of splines etc. I think. Somebody will hopefully be along shortly who knows much more about it than I, but I think that's the gist of it.

Although difficult and expensive, those things can be overcome with good engineering, but yeah, it all adds up to be prohibitive. :(

Some day, someone will find the solution (I hope) :D

[Disco Muppet]

Shafts are easily overcome.
Computers are a bit trickier. But I think it should be relatively simple to achieve, but as said just a matter of sitting down and working it out.
I think the l322 shape is by far the best after the classic, but the transmission has always been the big red cross for me.
Maybe I'll get the wheels turning by trying to find one with a dead transmission :D
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[Homestar]

Shafts are easily overcome.
Computers are a bit trickier. But I think it should be relatively simple to achieve, but as said just a matter of sitting down and working it out.
I think the l322 shape is by far the best after the classic, but the transmission has always been the big red cross for me.
Maybe I'll get the wheels turning by trying to find one with a dead transmission :D
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They are out there and the wreckers grab them usually. I've seen one go for $8K about 6 months ago - engine ran like a clock and everything else was in fair condition. If you wait a couple more years, you'll get a going one for that price the way they are devaluing at the moment. :D

[Blade74]

What do people think of my06 supercharged models?
Is the motor and gearbox pretty reliable?
Does anyone have real world figures on fuel?

[Disco Muppet]

They are out there and the wreckers grab them usually. I've seen one go for $8K about 6 months ago - engine ran like a clock and everything else was in fair condition. If you wait a couple more years, you'll get a going one for that price the way they are devaluing at the moment. :D

I have no doubt they're out there. I need at least one working car for now though :D
I can imagine which wrecker buys the most of them...






What do people think of my06 supercharged models?
Does anyone have real world figures on fuel?

There are two things in this sentence that don't go together :p



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[Blade74]

You lost me on that one disco muppet.
I'm assuming theres a rough fuel usage highway/city if you drive it sedately.
But am assuming people tend to be heavy footed.
I'm thinking whether I would own one for a year or two???

[Disco Muppet]

Supercharged and fuel economy was what I was thinking. I think it's not so much the best case fuel consumption that's the issue, it's how quickly it goes from bad to atrocious when you put your foot down. And supercharged vehicles aren't made to be driven sedately.
But for a couple of years, who cares. Go for it. I know a mechanic who works on them who reckons they're easier to maintain than the diesels but he says that about every diesel :p

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[Blade74]

Yeah cool. I just looked at one that was reasonably priced but not in great condition. The avg fuel consumption was sitting on 25 l per 100. Pretty crazy that every 4kms you're throwing another litre of fuel in the motor. Just spoke to a mechanic who has one and he averages around 19l per hundred. He said he's seen some around that were averaging 35 per hundred. dde31 Said they're a good car though and also likes the tdv8. Said the biggest expense is when people put unleaded in the fuel tank.dde33

[DoubleChevron]

I figure the best fix to any car with a slugomatic fitted................ It's to plug a proper gearbox into it. Was there any disco's sold with the same drivetrain and a manual gearbox? If so, rather than spend $7000 repairing a dodgy slugomatic, I'd spend the $$$ on a wrecked disco and move the proper gearbox into the Rangie.

Of course the bonus of this, is you'll have something decent to drive. I'm very "not fond" of slugomatics.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Disco Muppet]

The d3 had a manual transmission fitted in very limited numbers but it's an even worse transmission than the GM.
Modern LR automatics are brilliant, if one of those could be adapted it would be a delight to drive.
Of course, the BMW X5 came in a manual so there's an option but it may also turn out to be a rubbish box so who knows

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[DoubleChevron]

The d3 had a manual transmission fitted in very limited numbers but it's an even worse transmission than the GM.
Modern LR automatics are brilliant, if one of those could be adapted it would be a delight to drive.
Of course, the BMW X5 came in a manual so there's an option but it may also turn out to be a rubbish box so who knows

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Worse as in reliablity wise?? Or did it just suck due to the clutch/gearchange feel. I dont' understand how anyone can make an unreliable manual gearbox when they have been building them since the stone age :)

seeya,
Shane L.

[Disco Muppet]

Undersized clutch that gets eaten very quickly, didn't work as well with the terrain response systems compared to the auto, if you run a search on here you're unlikely to find much positive said about them, but they're rare as an effective politician in Australia.
Same as the gm in the rr, just not suited to the application.
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[Homestar]

The d3 had a manual transmission fitted in very limited numbers but it's an even worse transmission than the GM.
Modern LR automatics are brilliant, if one of those could be adapted it would be a delight to drive.
Of course, the BMW X5 came in a manual so there's an option but it may also turn out to be a rubbish box so who knows

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The X5 5 speed and later 6 speed manual will fit behind the M57 engine and the RR Transfer case will bolt up without too much issue from what I can find out. The gearbox in the X5 is a good unit and works well, although it was never as popular as the auto, and is quite rare in Australia.

Not sue how the terrain response and hill decent would work with it (if at all) but reliability wise it would be fine as it's rated to take almost twice the torque as the 5L40E. Might even be able to chip the engine without fear of a catastrophe happening. :D

There are plenty of other hurdles though - clutch, exhaust (RR exhaust will foul the clutch fork), gearshift, mounts, drive shafts and electronics. Still, I think it is doable... Maybe one day I'll have a crack at it.

[DoubleChevron]

The X5 5 speed and later 6 speed manual will fit behind the M57 engine and the RR Transfer case will bolt up without too much issue from what I can find out. The gearbox in the X5 is a good unit and works well, although it was never as popular as the auto, and is quite rare in Australia.

Not sue how the terrain response and hill decent would work with it (if at all) but reliability wise it would be fine as it's rated to take almost twice the torque as the 5L40E. Might even be able to chip the engine without fear of a catastrophe happening. :D

There are plenty of other hurdles though - clutch, exhaust (RR exhaust will foul the clutch fork), gearshift, mounts, drive shafts and electronics. Still, I think it is doable... Maybe one day I'll have a crack at it.

tha'ts the way I'd be going .... Can you see me needing terrain response :angel: I like to "drive" the suckers myself.... ( I've seen that defender with open diffs versus fully locked cruiser ..... and the defender walks up stuff the locked cruiser couldn't get up with it's terrain control... sure would be a shame to loose it, though it does work in the manual defender).

My wifes poogoe 407 has a 6spd manual gearbox behind a turbo diesel engine... it's a bloody rippa setup.

[Disco Muppet]

The X5 5 speed and later 6 speed manual will fit behind the M57 engine and the RR Transfer case will bolt up without too much issue from what I can find out. The gearbox in the X5 is a good unit and works well, although it was never as popular as the auto, and is quite rare in Australia.

Not sue how the terrain response and hill decent would work with it (if at all) but reliability wise it would be fine as it's rated to take almost twice the torque as the 5L40E. Might even be able to chip the engine without fear of a catastrophe happening. :D

There are plenty of other hurdles though - clutch, exhaust (RR exhaust will foul the clutch fork), gearshift, mounts, drive shafts and electronics. Still, I think it is doable... Maybe one day I'll have a crack at it.

Now this I am interested in.

I'm sure it would be doable to make up a suitable box of electrickery and smoke to fool the computer into reading the same signals as if the auto were still there in regards to terrain response and hill decent control, tricky but doable.
Clutch can be sorted, exhaust should be relatively simple although any relocation would probably require some creative thinking and appropriate heat shielding.
Gearshift, piece of ****. mounts and drive shafts are same same. Wonder if you could build a translation box between the auto and manual computers....

[Homestar]

Now this I am interested in.

I'm sure it would be doable to make up a suitable box of electrickery and smoke to fool the computer into reading the same signals as if the auto were still there in regards to terrain response and hill decent control, tricky but doable.
Clutch can be sorted, exhaust should be relatively simple although any relocation would probably require some creative thinking and appropriate heat shielding.
Gearshift, piece of ****. mounts and drive shafts are same same. Wonder if you could build a translation box between the auto and manual computers....

Electronics is easier than you think. There is no smarts in the manual boxes, just the gear indicator wiring, which can be transposed to the dash lights without too much issue. Now, the other bit - when you unplug the transmission the engine won't start - it thinks it's in 3rd gear. Shouldn't be too hard to bypass this. If you start the engine, then pull the plug, the engine stays running, so nothing catastrophic there.

The electronics for the auto are mostly stand alone, with only a CAN signal to the engine ECU which sends a signal to momentarily cut power when a gear change happens - the engine ECU will live quite happily if it never sees this signal.

I've done a LOT of research on this conversion, so I've run through most issues I think.

Manual box is longer so the TC ends up in a different spot, so new driveshafts are needed - no biggy. Clutch would need to be operated by a concentric hydraulic throw out bearing - no biggy. Clutch pedal will be a **** as the L322 was never designed for one. There is enough room under the dash for a racing style one piece hydraulic clutch pedal assembly but almost the entire dash would need to come out to fit this - time consuming and a PITA but again, doable. Shifter ends up a couple of inches back from where the auto selector is - how pretty you want to make this will depend on the lengths you go to with the shifter - I'd probably just bring it up where it will go and move other stuff around that.

One day when I have some spare cash, I'll import a good second hand box and see what happens. The only box I saw for sale in Aus was well over $3,000. The same box from OS is around 500 euro so with shipping, etc should come in a bit cheaper than that.

Still think it would cost the same as an auto rebuild, but I think you would get a better result IMO.

[Disco Muppet]

Good to hear! Saves me from having to do it :angel: :D
Can always adjust where the shifter comes out with a bit of lateral thinking, and it should be relatively easy to pretty up the new space around the shifter. Having it a bit further back shouldn't cause too many issues if you left it as is but I'm sure it could be worked to come out level with where the auto shifter was.
Dash out would be a pain but really, meh. To be honest, it sounds simpler than doing the same thing (or the reverse for that matter) in a Td5 D2....
Would you go the 5 or 6 speed box?
Shoot me a PM when you decide to do this, I'll come and help :D

[banarcus]

Another thought. The later ZF 6 speed autos that were fitted to the X5s, I wonder whether the rear output section could bolt up the existing TC on the L322 or better still is it the same as the latter 6 speed fitted from '06?

Software is the issue. If there was a way of using the X5 software and making it work with the L322 engine management.....

[Laurie]

The ZF is a little shorter and the output shaft is different as the transfer boxes are different also ! The BIG problem is the gearbox electronics, BMW X5 has ecu for this combo, but it dosen't have low range. It's the associated electronic functions that could cause problems.

Laurie

[Homestar]

Yeah, replacing it with another auto is very difficult and hadn't been done as far as I can tell. I have seen a manual conversion on a range rover using a 5 speed box out of a BMW car of some description, but it was then just a rear wheel drive rangy which sort of defeats the whole purpose IMO, but hey, if you don't want to go off road again, the 2WD conversion might be for you.... But not me.

I'd just use the 5 speed - the 6 speed has the same 0.8:1 overdrive in top gear, but the other 5 are just closer together. The M57 diesel will easily pull through the gearing on the 5 speed. It is also a bucket load cheaper.

[chaybra]

2001 BMW 3 Series E46 M57D30 3 0 Litre Diesel 5 Speed Manual Trans Gearbox | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2001-BMW-3-SERIES-E46-M57D30-3-0-LITRE-DIESEL-5-SPEED-MANUAL-TRANS-GEARBOX-/390804724021?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5afdc6d935)

something like this?

[Homestar]

2001 BMW 3 Series E46 M57D30 3 0 Litre Diesel 5 Speed Manual Trans Gearbox | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2001-BMW-3-SERIES-E46-M57D30-3-0-LITRE-DIESEL-5-SPEED-MANUAL-TRANS-GEARBOX-/390804724021?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5afdc6d935)

something like this?

Yep, that would bolt straight up but you would be left with a 2WD, high range only vehicle. The box required is from an X5 - 02 to 09 ish. Ideally with the NV125 transfer case still bolted to the back as a couple of bits from that would be needed to graft the NV225 onto it (I think). All my research is purely theoretical at the moment. Would love to have a box sitting in the garage to take some accurate measurements off.

[chaybra]

What information is transferred between the transmission ECU and the Engine ECU?
why is it more difficult to take an existing strong auto with transfer box already attached from another large 4x4? as long as the outputs are in the same relative position, mechanically it should be viable.
If you can get the car to run with no trans computer, it should be possible to run an auto with a separate computer or no computer even.
making a bell housing adapter surely would be easier/cheaper than putting in clutch pedals and cutting a big hole in the center console.

Also in my opinion, loosing the auto in a big car is definitely a disadvantage when it comes to off roading.

[Laurie]

Bell housings can be had from BMW X5's, which have the Td6 6HP ZF Autos ! It's the electronics that need to be done. Don't forget there are 2 ? variants of the Canbus 02-04MY and MY05-06 Updated model !
We just need someone to compare ECU's and have a "Patch"for the differences if possible.
Easy :angel:

Laurie

[Homestar]

What information is transferred between the transmission ECU and the Engine ECU?
why is it more difficult to take an existing strong auto with transfer box already attached from another large 4x4? as long as the outputs are in the same relative position, mechanically it should be viable.
If you can get the car to run with no trans computer, it should be possible to run an auto with a separate computer or no computer even.
making a bell housing adapter surely would be easier/cheaper than putting in clutch pedals and cutting a big hole in the center console.

Also in my opinion, loosing the auto in a big car is definitely a disadvantage when it comes to off roading.

I see your points and they're all good and valid. Even if if you can get an auto to run on its own - I think that is possible - the engineering would be more difficult I think. How's this - you start an auto conversion, and I'll get stuck into the manual conversion. See if we can get 2 different viable options for them! :)

I've already seen what you're capable of - you've got a lot further than me with your vehicle in a much shorter time. :)

[banarcus]

Ok then. This is again all theory but the transfer case and ZF 6HP26 out of a Disco3/RRS? Mechanically is there a possibility? Software seems again like the obvious issue.

[Laurie]

RRPhil stated:

With the 4.10 final drive in the TD6, maximum overdrive ratio would be around 31mph/1000rpm in 6th gear. Because 1st gear ratio in the 6HP26 is 4.17 compared with 3.42 in the 5L40-E, and because the torque converter K-factor and stall torque ratio will have been matched against the 640Nm TDV8 engine output (compared with only 390Nm for the BMW TD6) there would be some work to do matching the torque converter I think.

The T/C from the 6HP28 in the 3.0 D4 would be a good candidate if it fits the 6HP26 (splines etc.) In standard form it is rated to 750Nm which is more than the 4.4TdV8 puts out in standard trim. So a HD item for a Td6 spec.

The D4 3.0TdV6 puts out (180 kW; 241 hp)@4000, 600 Nm (443 lb?ft)@2000 in the latest version

The L322 Td6 is 177 PS (130 kW; 175 hp) @ 4,000 and 390 Nm (288 lbf?ft) @ 2,000 rpm.

The Td6TT in the BMW X5 is (210 kW; 282 hp)@4000, 580 Nm (430 lb?ft)@2000-2250 in it's ultimate production variant!!

Laurie

[chaybra]

I see your points and they're all good and valid. Even if if you can get an auto to run on its own - I think that is possible - the engineering would be more difficult I think. How's this - you start an auto conversion, and I'll get stuck into the manual conversion. See if we can get 2 different viable options for them! :)

I've already seen what you're capable of - you've got a lot further than me with your vehicle in a much shorter time. :)

Haha could be a fun race!
The 6L80E out of the SS commodores etc are a very common, strong, 6 speed box that have had a lot of conversions to 4x4 using a variety of transfer cases. They also run a stand along transmission computer, being GM chances of the communication systems being compatible could be more likely. Can get a used box under $1K in aus

[chaybra]

Just stumbled across this looking for some details on the flange mounting...

http://koti.mbnet.fi/pro-ht/Kuvat/automaattilaatikko/5L40E


If anyone - like me, would attempt a rebuild this could be extremely beneficial. I am not sure if anyone on here has come up with this document yet?

Added:

The same for the 6L80E trans using CAN bus controls

http://www.all-trans.by/assets/site/files/gm/6L80E

[Laurie]

Chay
We looked at the 6L80/90E a while ago. Would need a custom bell housing or adaptor plate. Then probably a modified ring gear and starter motor.
Big Pluses are:
cheap to obtain
low first gear 4:02
plenty of aftermarket goodies
strong box

The negatives are:
Output shaft spline/ housing to transfer box different ? Could adapt ! $$$
Length
Electronics again: could use a stand alone system, BUT it's a Ffrr I just want it to work the same as before :D

Laurie

[chaybra]

Chay
We looked at the 6L80/90E a while ago. Would need a custom bell housing or adaptor plate. Then probably a modified ring gear and starter motor.
Big Pluses are:
cheap to obtain
low first gear 4:02
plenty of aftermarket goodies
strong box

The negatives are:
Output shaft spline/ housing to transfer box different ? Could adapt ! $$$
Length
Electronics again: could use a stand alone system, BUT it's a Ffrr I just want it to work the same as before :D

Laurie

these are all very common problems when doing an auto conversion, especially with this gearbox. I have just contacted a trans conversions specialist in the states and waiting for a response, who custom makes interface modules for this box to a variety of vehicles. (if it can be done for the latest cruisers and patrols why not the rangies, especially between 2 GM boxes with Can Bus of the same era)

6L80/6L90 Conversion Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.tbmsport.com/6l80gm6spdinformation/6l8090econversionfaqs.html)

The spline adaptor boxes for the x-fer case would need to be developed but is quite common, apparently the lenght of the 6l80 is less than the 5l40? correct me if im wrong, "The 6L80E has an overall case length of 590mm/23.23" without the extension housing." this could be beneficial in leaving the transfer in the original position.

Nissan Patrol V8 Engine Conversions using the GM automatic transmissions (http://www.marks4wd.com/engine-conversions/transfer-case-adaptors/nissan/patrol.html)

regardless of what/if a different box will be put it, adapters are going to need to be made.

anyway, this is just all a big ball of hope...and thats all we can do at this point! haha :D

[Laurie]

The GM boxes lengths are:

6L80E 23.5 "

6L90E 25.0"

I questioned a few transmission ecu builders/modifiers in the US a while ago. At that stage the market was for GM, Chev and Jeep conversions only ! obviously this is where the big sales are.

The 6HP26 is 30mm shorter than the 5L40E


Laurie

[DoubleChevron]

Is it the 2.7 HDi landrover/PSA/Ford engine that is fitted to these. If so, what about the 6spd auto ford territory gearbox. It's readily available and should bolt right up.

You'd need an electronic controller to shift it though.

seeya,
Shane L.

[harlie]

No, the 2.7 in the D3, c6, territory ect has the ZF 6hp24. And these ZF boxes have a mechatronics unit (valve body, sensors and ECU all in one internal unit) so there is no way of using another controller. The GM boxes are controlled by an external ECU so technically something can be made, if it worth it is another Q. The idea of using a box and ECU from the same generation would be the best bet - although there are several differing CAN packet standards even from the same erea.

The attraction of the ZF is it is what is fitted to the post 2004 BMW X5 with the same engine, theoretically fit up should be easier.

[harlie]

What information is transferred between the transmission ECU and the Engine ECU?
.....

I posted up all the coms details a while back (this is my comfort zone :)) - might be in the other thread from 5years ago about the 6HP24. Esentially the L322 would be a pig without integration between trans and engine, and several other systems (ABS, TC) recieve trans data.

Even to go manual you would need to retain some sort of trans ECU to keep everything else happy - unless you can get the source code, rebuild and load your newly built firmware to all the ECUs effected.