looking to buy high KM D4

[aophoto]

Hi everyone, not sure if this is the place to post, so sorry if I have made a mistake.

Looking at a 2011 (MY12) SDV6 3.0 D4 with 160,000km on it.

IF the car had a good service history (will find out tomorrow), would that sort of K's be an issue for me in the next year (is anything big going to send me bankrupt)?? I know there are alot of variables with how the car been driven etc but just wanting to know if buying a car with that many K's on it is a smart option....

I have come from Subaru's for the past 10 years so I am a bit out of my comfort zone....

Any help would awesome..

[Graeme]

Cam-belts are due to be changed at 180K and if the shocks haven't been replaced then they soon will need to be, if not already well overdue.

[LGM]

Most diesels vehicles if serviced at the appropriate intervals will be fine for many, many more km's than the 160,000km that you are talking about. How and where the vehicle was driven i.e. city vs country can certainly impact the condition. If you have access to a good independent LR service person it is well worth the money you may pay for another perspective on the particular vehicle. There are a number of service touch points with D4's that incur some significant cash outlay hence it is well worth searching this site for those things such as timing belts, which, if my memory is correct the vehicle you are looking at will be fast approaching if not already replaced. I am sure others with a much better memory than me who frequent this site will be able to give you some specific points to see you right.

In any case the D4 is a great drive and the right vehicle will see you well into the future.

[~Rich~]

Regardless the D4 will cost you a lot more in maintenance costs than the Subaru.
That's a fact because the D4 is a complex vehicle.

You will love it as we all do, just be warned.

[rar110]

A well looked after late model high km vehicle can be good value, particularly if you drive less than the average km as over time the km will average out to normal km for its age. The benefit is terrible vs horrendous depreciation loss.

160,000 is quite a bit on a 4 year old car, but nothing to be concerned about IMHO. Doing an average of 40,000 km/y indicates a good reliable vehicle that's probably done mostly low stress HW km.

[aophoto]

Thanks for the feedback all.

Going to have the car inspected by MR Automotive tomorrow to see if there are any issues to look for. According to Land Rover brisbane it has a full service history so it looks good on paper - just have to accept im going to have belts done soonish. Subaru wanted to charge me $2900 for my 120,000km service which was basically just the belts and diff oil.....

[eddy]

Get MR to check if it has the steel pan on the auto and at least a couple of oil changes listed on the service history.Suspension bushes should have been replaced,especially the front lower control arm.

[LandyAndy]

The 3.0lt engine doesnt work hard(comparing with asian 3.0lt diesels),I would consider the buy if the servicing is complete and the vehicle has been looked after.
ENJOY
Andrew

[MR LR]

If you can't afford to own a new one, you most certainly can't afford to own one second hand!

Wise words they are... apparently from BMW.

[DiscoDB]

If you can't afford to own a new one, you most certainly can't afford to own one second hand!

Wise words they are... apparently from BMW.

Probably true if you buy a high mileage BMW that has followed their minimalistic servicing schedules - such as the sealed for life auto!

The best value buys are the low km second hand cars that have been well maintained. The first owner takes the large depreciation hit over the first 3-5 years, and providing they maintain it well, the second owner then picks up the well run in vehicle and can look forward to the next 5+ years of fairly low cost ownership.

A D4 with 160k - the biggest concern must be the auto. If it has never been serviced, then budget $7k to rebuild within the next 40-80k. As a guide, you would want to pick up the high km D4 for at least $6k less than an average km same model/same age equivalent, which in turn should be $4k less than a low km equivalent.

[Graeme]

For a 2008-2011 D3/D4/RRS/RRV and many other non-LR vehicles with the 6-speed, budget on the rebuild regardless because of a bush material stuff-up.

[rar110]

For a 2008-2011 D3/D4/RRS/RRV and many other non-LR vehicles with the 6-speed, budget on the rebuild regardless because of a bush material stuff-up.

Graeme
I can't remember from the last discussion on 6 speed autos, does the same problem apply to the D3 & L322 with 6 speed auto?

[Wasa57]

"I have come from Subaru's for the past 10 years so I am a bit out of my comfort zone...."


The Subaru brand in general is a benchmark for safety, reliability, and quality control, hence your current comfort zone.

Is your current Subaru a diesel? What do you expect to gain from the changeover, ie what will the D4 allow you to do that the Subaru will not?

You will need to keep many thousands tucked away for a rainy D3/4 day. Don't want to put a "dampener" on your dreams, but when it pours it pours!

Having said all that, the d3/4 is very comfortable "zone" in which to travel, on or off road.

-Wasa

[MR LR]

Probably true if you buy a high mileage BMW that has followed their minimalistic servicing schedules - such as the sealed for life auto!


One could be forgiven for thinking you were talking about a Discovery with that statement... really there is no difference between the marques in that regard.

IMO, if buying a Land Rover, you need to consider if your budget can support a total overhaul of a major component, such as the engine.

Buying a high km car because it's cheap (not that 160 is high at all), is quite often more expensive in the long run.

But I have no idea about this stuff ;) :p

[Graeme]

Graeme
I can't remember from the last discussion on 6 speed autos, does the same problem apply to the D3 & L322 with 6 speed auto?

Any combination of the following DTC's may be stored in the transmission control module (TCM). P0729 to P0735, P0783, P2702 to P2704.*

Cause: Internal lead free stator bush wear causing loss of pressure on E clutch. Suggested Customer Concern Code - P66.*

Discovery 3 / LR3 (LA) - ZF 6HP Automatic Transmission*
Model Year: 2008-2009*
Chassis Range: 8A475162-9A513325*

Discovery 4 / LR4 (LA) - ZF 6HP Automatic Transmission*
Model Year: 2010-2011*
Chassis Range: AA513326-BA588606*

Range Rover (LM) - ZF 6HP Automatic Transmission*
Model Year: 2008-2011*
Chassis Range: 8A282106-BA356686*

Range Rover Sport (LS) - ZF 6HP Automatic Transmission*
Model Year: 2008-2011*
Chassis Range: 8A165260-BA706935*

Note that the MY11 TDV8 L322 was fitted with the 8-speed.

P2704 on mine.

[rar110]

Luck is with me on this one, my VIN is 8A27**** dde0a

[BobD]

My 2010 D4 is still OK at 190,000km. I have done 2 oil changes and nearly up to the third. Just did a 2 week, 11,000km trip from Perth to Brisbane to pick up a used 2013 Kimberley Karavan and towed it back via Birdsville, Coober Pedy, Uluru and Great Central Road to Perth with no issues.


Graeme, how much warning do you get from first symptoms to failure? What was the first thing you noticed that made you think there was a problem?

[Graeme]

I noticed strange dropping out of 6th then going back into 6th ascending low hills at 90+ kph only a week or so after the oil change. I wondered if I'd left the oil low but not so. The problem increased over the next few weeks to not staying in 6th under much load at all, often going into limp mode after free-wheeling for a few seconds when 5th wouldn't engage properly.

The oil wasn't burnt or dirty from slipping clutches at its first change at 150K but may have been heavily contaminated with fine bush material that may have accelerated the bush wear. I wonder if the oil had been changed a couple of times during that time to remove metal-contaminated oil that the bushes may have survived much longer. I can only think that the old oil was thicker than the new oil (Lifequard 6) to the extent that the shaft seals could cope with the bearing wear. However the ZF techo said that it probably had nothing to do with the oil change, only that its life was up.

[Graeme]

Luck is with me on this one, my VIN is 8A27**** dde0aMy brother's MY08 TDV8 RRS is early enough too!

[DiscoDB]

I hope those VIN ranges are spot on, mine was built just a few hundred cars before the start of the change.

I fear a Maxwell Smart moment - "missed it by that much.....".

[Damo4runner]

No Problems yet but I have a Vin in the range, still only 85,000klms and a sump change and service is on the way.

[RichardK]

My D3 has travelled 290,000+ K's and on original transmission (not engine, that's another story), I have it purged every 50,000 K's and serviced, a couple of months ago we had a trensmission fault appearing when towing our camper through hilly country at the same spot, the fault readout indicated a solenoid not operating correctly so I had an early purge and had the 7 solenoids replaced this week. I won't know the result until I take the camper out again in a couple of weeks.
The mechanic mentioned the "white Metal" bushes and said I had had a remarkable run but the box would need a rebuild in the future, around $6k. They replace the bushes which are the problem with bronze bushes and he would expect not to have a problem with it from that point as that in his experience is the only weak point

[Wasa57]

My D3 has travelled 290,000+ K's and on original transmission (not engine, that's another story), I have it purged every 50,000 K's and serviced, a couple of months ago we had a trensmission fault appearing when towing our camper through hilly country at the same spot, the fault readout indicated a solenoid not operating correctly so I had an early purge and had the 7 solenoids replaced this week. I won't know the result until I take the camper out again in a couple of weeks.
The mechanic mentioned the "white Metal" bushes and said I had had a remarkable run but the box would need a rebuild in the future, around $6k. They replace the bushes which are the problem with bronze bushes and he would expect not to have a problem with it from that point as that in his experience is the only weak point

How much for the bushes all up?

And since you have teased us with the engine problem, please elaborate.

Thanks, Wasa

[Graeme]

How much for the bushes all up?aThe ZF branch in Sydney (there are others in other major cities) were charging a standard price of $3950+GST to totally refurbish any European version (Fords are cheaper) of the 6HP gbox with new torque converter, new mechatronic, new clutch plates and various other components including some new shafts and filled with oil a couple of months ago. The cost of removing and replacing the gbox, dismantling, cleaning, re-assembling and supplying new seals and oil would make just replacing the stator bushes a very expensive exercise.

[aophoto]

Thanks for all the feedback and advice guys.

I took the car to MR Automative yesterday for a full check - they went over it with a fine tooth comb and were very happy with it (it's in VERY VERY good condition all over and has been very well kept), only concern they had for me was the spare tyre was not so good. They did mention that the transmission hadn't had a service yet. They did test the oil and said it was good - but i'm not sure if that still means a possible replacement down the line?

I checked 'my' VIN against those numbers Graeme and it's is not included in that range, im guessing that's positive? Build date was AUG 11.

As a quick side note. Previous owner had a farm and drove from Brisbane to Roma (900km round trip) alot, hence the high k's.

I still haven't committed 100% on the car just yet as there seems to be alot of doom and gloom surrounding these cars in general. I have had my eye on one for quite a while for mainly daily driving and a bit of off-roading when I can (fraser once a year would be good for me).

I would go for Toyota but I cant really justify the money on a older cruiser with high KM and the lack of comfort you get with it, driving this disco was pretty amazing.
Although in saying all of this, i'm not sure I have the money to back me up as you guys are suggesting I should have :eek:

[LGM]

My last Aussie built car cost more to run than my 2011 130,000km D4 has. It's all relative.

If you have had it checked out and reckon its a good vehicle go for it. Don't die wondering!!!!!!

[Wheelan]

Thanks for all the feedback and advice guys.

Although in saying all of this, i'm not sure I have the money to back me up as you guys are suggesting I should have :eek:

I say go for it, I picked up a 2010 D4 3.0 for 50k with 83K on it. I should have taken more time to have it checked out but just didnt have the time and had to get in the car which is for work duties. The guy I bought it from also got a dodgy RWC from a mate of his. So since I have it I have done the following ( which I allowed for as well)
Trans metal sump and oil change - $960
front lower control arms - $1200
brakes all round - $1100
Oil level check system fault (faulty sensor in the sump which requires axles etc to be stripped to replace) $1200
plus all the extras, bar, winch, GOE wheels, rack, drawers, dual batts etc.
All this was accounted for and with the lower purchase price I was still ahead if I had of purchased from a dealer. Just shop smart, Famous Four in Uk will be your friend, and find a good mechanic, not LR who will just empty your wallet. Had I got a new car for $50K it would already be worth 20% less now with 30K Kms, I could sell the D4 now for near 50 still. I too couldnt justify the Toyota price tag for 2nd hand.

[carlschmid2002]

The ZF branch in Sydney (there are others in other major cities) were charging a standard price of $3950+GST to totally refurbish any European version (Fords are cheaper) of the 6HP gbox with new torque converter, new mechatronic, new clutch plates and various other components including some new shafts and filled with oil a couple of months ago. The cost of removing and replacing the gbox, dismantling, cleaning, re-assembling and supplying new seals and oil would make just replacing the stator bushes a very expensive exercise.
I live in Townsville and the closest ZF service is in Cairns but I think they do marine only. I am moving to Toowoomba at the end of the year ad if this offer still stands I would be keen to take advantage of it. My D3 V8 has done 190000kms and I am not sure if the trans has been serviced. I was going to take some photos underneath and ask this forum to see if it is the original pan. I might risk using it until the end of the year and getting the full service. Your thoughts.

[Graeme]

The plastic pan has ribs along it whereas the steel pan has a flat bottom and rounded corners due to being pressed from sheet metal and has turned-up edges for strength. The screws for the plastic pan have large diameter heads (around 15mm?) to clamp against a metal sleeve in the pan holes whereas the steel pan screws are about 8mm.

By 190K kms its probably not worth disturbing unless its had a very easy life and isn't in the range of vehicles with the white-metal bushes, which being a 2005 model should not.

[carlschmid2002]

I take it this is a metal pan. Torque scews are about 8mm.

[Graeme]

Yes it indeed is a metal pan and has the stainless steel small head screws.

Now done 190K and has a metal pan so IMO very worthwhile getting the oil changed asap.