New Sump Plug, Do we really need one.

[Fatso]

Gday , Does anyone know real reason why a new sump plug must be fitted for each service , I do my own service and faithfully renew the sump plug each time :angel:.
I asked an authorised landy place if they new and was told that the thread was only good for one use and could fall out if used twice , nah I cant except that, my thoughts are it might have something to do with o ring .

[101RRS]

What a load of nonsense - I have never replaced the plug and and just did an oil change this morning and did not change it. I inspect the O ring and do not not tighten the plug all that much.

I have used the same plug 5 times and there have been no issues - no leaks nuffin. I can see that it might be wise to replace it if it has been over torqued but other than that no.

Garry

[dadsDisco1]

It's so they can charge you more! Changed my oil yesterday, noticed a groove in the O ring so I flipped it over. However my used/re-used plug did leak prior, this time I smeared just a little gasket sealant around it.

[mike123]

Seems strange to replace a sump plug every oil change. I replaced the sump plug on our Disco 1 with one of the Fumoto oil valves (fumoto.com.au). It made the oil changes a lot easier and cleaner. Not sure if they have one to suit you car but probably they do. We don't do too much off-roading so it won't get knocked about but if we were doing serious off-roading then I'd stick with the sump plug.

[bbyer]

My understanding for the reason a new sump plug is to be installed with each oil change relates to human nature.

The 3's oil pan is cast alloy and the sealing surface is machined. This infers some sort of oil seal between the plug and the pan. That concept is nothing special and is now a norm.

Initially LR sold small packages of O rings, the idea being a new O ring was to be installed at each oil change. The bottom line was that the LR dealer techs would either run out of O rings, or install the wrong size O ring, or just reuse the existing.

On many an occasion, oil drained from the pans and engine problems resulted. Actually the major concern was these problems were occurring within the LR factory engine warranty period and hence it was tough to stick the vehicle owner with the cost of a new engine. That is what is considered a warranty concern requiring attention at the highest levels.

Hence the factory solution that was universally hailed as a great step forward was an answer that embodied a markup for all the players of import.

[silkhammer]

Yeah, several vehicles I've had have required the washer or complete plug to be replaced every service. I've always figured it's their way of ensuring a good clean seal every time, even if the previous washer/gasket/o-ring has been mashed by over-tightening.

In the non-warranted (ie older) vehicles I've had, despite them saying this I re-used the same one for many, many oil changes - just made sure it was cleaned and lightly oiled each time I put it back in, and didn't try and screw it through the sump! Never had a single leak.

[bbyer]

Seems strange to replace a sump plug every oil change. I replaced the sump plug on our Disco 1 with one of the Fumoto oil valves (fumoto.com.au). It made the oil changes a lot easier and cleaner. Not sure if they have one to suit you car but probably they do. We don't do too much off-roading so it won't get knocked about but if we were doing serious off-roading then I'd stick with the sump plug.I just looked on the web site and see that the Fumoto looks like what I call a quick drain. I have about the same thing with a nipple sticking out on the bottom of the oil pan on my Lycoming O-320 engine. It works well and saves removing the lower cowling just to drain the oil.

I never thought about putting one on an vehicle engine.

Oil Sump Drain Valves - Chief Aircraft Inc. (http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-drain-valves.html)

[Weird Al]

I notice the sump of the 3.0L D4 has a quick release fitting hose at its lowest point.

Is there a reason we shouldnt use it as an oil drain and not bother with the sump plug at all?

[Damo4runner]

Just questioning the actual oil change process of replacing the sump plug at the oil change. Do we really need a new sump plug or is it just a change as needed thing, I have only ever replaced one, out of all the cars and 4x4's that I have ever owned, sump washers yes but never the sump plug just because of an oil change,

[Toxic_Avenger]

does the sump plug have a captive copper washer?
If so, it would be best practice (but not necessarily mandatory) to replace it.

[LGM]

I purchase a hand Vacuum Pump use the vacuum system to change the oil (no fuss and no mess) so its not something that I need to worry about! ;)

[Damo4runner]

Do you actually get all the old oil out with the pump method or is the old way of the sump plug better. I've never hand a car that would use a vacuum pump for oil removal. And is LR the only place you can get the sump plug from.

[PhilipA]

According to that impeccable authority Google , it is because you may drop the old one and distort the thread and cut into the alloy sump, resulting after a few changes in a stripped sump which could be very expensive.

That is what the UK VW forum says anyway, this being tempered by a poster saying that every new plug he has bought from a VW dealer has been damaged anyway. Apparently you should closely examine your plug with a jewelers glass to check for imperfections before reusing.

What a load of bollocks IMHO. I use my old plug every time on my Honda with alloy sump as I don't over tighten it or drop it. Although knowing LR products now , you probably have to lift the body off to replace the sump. LOL.
Regards Philip A

[LGM]

Damo4runner,

I reckon you don't get 'all' the oil out but it certainly seems like it gets 'all but'! No getting underneath, no removal of sump protection no sump plug issues, easy as!

[Damo4runner]

What brand pump did you get and where from if you don't mind me asking?

[Grappler]

The gasket in the plug is a specialised o ring. It has a winged profile.
Ive reused them a few times on RRS and Puma (plugs are the same) without leaking

I was thinking about machining a substitute plug to take std o rings
Another thought was fumoto sump plug. Good on the RRS with underbody protection plate but is probably too exposed on the puma. You fit the fumoto once and then operate the locked valve

[Damo4runner]

I haven't noticed the hose you mention. And now I realise I just commented on a really old post I found in the search function.

[Stuart02]

Yep the washers used commonly are crushable so very much one use only without risking a lot of grief next time you try to get the plug off.
I don't know about LR sump plugs but I've been told they can actually be magnetic to collect metallic fines... Who can say. I would totally believe BByer's theory too.

[winaje]

Does anyone know the correct thread for the D3 sump plug, interested in the Fumoto option (sorry for the hijack)?

[simmo]

This is a big subject :)

I never replaced a sump plug in my life :)

The biggest risk with the alloy sump is wrecking the sump and having to helicoil it.
I've done a few heliciol repairs, on motorbike sumps, alloy final drives , gearboxes etc. best not to go there.
Don't waste your money on a new sump plug, just use a torque wrench, whenever you see alloy think "torque wrench"
The type of gasket /washer etc is is important on alloy sumps , avoid copper washers unless you know they are soft and annealed, ( you can easily bend them between your thumb and index finger, you can anneal them on the gas or electric stove )
The sump plug should have a flange at least 2 mm wide , 3 or 4 mm is better.
Use a fiber washer or "doughty" washer ( a metal washer with rubber bonded to the inside of it , not easy to get and expensive so I avoid them)

My preference is a fiber washer, you can get them easily at repco, supercheap etc by the packet.etc.

This is my system, used on alloy engines, motorbikes, gearboxes etc. Clean you sump plug, put the washer on and get some thread tape, ( the thin one, white) Wrap it abound the bottom of the plug near the washer and over the washer, so the washer is sitting in position held by a couple of layers of thread tape. Or use a smear of "silicon Blue" around the washer
Fit the plug and torque, you will get a perfect leak free seal with the minimum of effort and torque & with minimum stress on the alloy sump threads. good luck simmo:)

[Nomad9]

Hi There,
They do make a Fumoto valve to suit the TDV6 engine, the only issue I had was getting the under engine protection back on. I ended up modifying the undercover plate with a plate / cap. I got a valve with the tube connection on it which is slightly longer than the other model of valve. The valve and under engine plate could then have gone back I suspect un modified. I think it would be good to cut a hole and install a small cover plate over the hole in the under engine plate so you don't have to remove the engine plate every time you want to change the oil.

[Nomad9]

Hi Grappler,
I've removed the old o-ring and replaced with a standard o-ring, in all honesty I didn't realise they were specially shaped O-rings. I have found a standard o-ring to be fine. Saying that if others decide to do this make sure it is a Viton o-ring not just a standard off the shelf Bunnings o-ring. If it isn't Viton or some other special hydrocarbon resistant ring it will swell, split and possibly dissolve resulting in a leak and possibly a loose sump plug.

[Grappler]

Here is pic of the 2.7 TDV6 sump plug (its also he same as 2.2 puma)
Ive removed he o ring/ gasket for clarity

You can see it is a hybrid of an o ring and a dowty washer

The thread on the plug is M14-1.5

[PhilipA]

So, my take on the replacing of the sump plug is all to do with reuse of the washer than the plug itself.
Probably part of some EU rule to stop any oil drips on engines and stop DIY on engines , as with the banning of spin on oil filters (reduction of land fill) , and "lifetime" fluid in the auto (ditto).
I am sure some enterprising company will come up with a conventional plug and washer. Hey Mario, what about it? What a PITA to have to go to a dealer to just buy a sump plug when you want to change the oil.

So they are truly trying to make obsolescence more certain.
Regards Philip A

[Tombie]

Hi Grappler,
I've removed the old o-ring and replaced with a standard o-ring, in all honesty I didn't realise they were specially shaped O-rings. I have found a standard o-ring to be fine. Saying that if others decide to do this make sure it is a Viton o-ring not just a standard off the shelf Bunnings o-ring. If it isn't Viton or some other special hydrocarbon resistant ring it will swell, split and possibly dissolve resulting in a leak and possibly a loose sump plug.

Whilst Viton is a good idea, the "Bunnings" NBR ones will be fine... They arent reactive to diesel...

You may be thinking of EPDM which is used in Brake systems... Its not a fan of Engine oil, hydraulic oil etc...

[Grappler]

I have just ordered a Fumoto sump plug replacement F106 for RRS and F106N for Puma. The suffix n is a barbed spout for a tube. The Puma sump drains the oil at a weird angle and is messy so I chose the spout for that reason.

Will follow up when they are installed next oil change

[Tombie]

Only issue I have with the Fumoto...

If the seal fails - you can unwittingly drive your engine to destruction...

The Stahlbus and similar have a sealed cap - even if the seal fails the oil can not escape...

[winaje]

Stahlbus looks nicer, thanks Tombie. The question is where to get in Australia?

[Tombie]

Stahlbus looks nicer, thanks Tombie. The question is where to get in Australia?


Get it shipped to one of Wifeys family/friends and posted over!

[hpal]

According to that impeccable authority Google , it is because you may drop the old one and distort the thread and cut into the alloy sump, resulting after a few changes in a stripped sump which could be very expensive.


Digging up an old one here, but what is the reference to an alloy sump? Mine's got a steel one... Why can't they just supply a new o-ring with the oil filter and chuck that one the old drain plug, I wonder if there's anywhere you can buy just the special o-ring?

[ATH]

Like many others I've never replaced a sump plug on any vehicle. I used to make sure the plug and surrounds were clean and the o-ring or gasket in good nick. However, on the D4 I use a vac. pump for the cleanest oil change ever....... apart from the last one when I knocked over the jug with a couple of litres of new oil in. :(
AlanH.

PS. Saying I've never replaced a sump plug is not quite correct..... I dropped a stinking hot plug from a D10 down the rip I was also dropping the hot engine oil into. And I wasn't putting my hand down there to find it. :)

[DiscoJeffster]

D3 had a steel bottom sump. D4 went to an alloy bottom sump ( sump it two piece - top and bottom). The D3 metal sumps were known to corrode in the mother country. Not sure about in Aus. Yes common practice to replace the sump plug but I have no idea why. A new copper washer etc seems logical at most. Another way to gouge you at service presumably. I’ve never replaced one and never had one strip or leak 🤷*♂️

[PerthDisco]

Digging up an old one here, but what is the reference to an alloy sump? Mine's got a steel one... Why can't they just supply a new o-ring with the oil filter and chuck that one the old drain plug, I wonder if there's anywhere you can buy just the special o-ring?

If it’s the same as the 2.7D sump plug the Ford dealer sells them.

I replace the oring not the plug which is very expensive for some reason.

[Bigbjorn]

The gasket in the plug is a specialised o ring. It has a winged profile.
Ive reused them a few times on RRS and Puma (plugs are the same) without leaking

I was thinking about machining a substitute plug to take std o rings
Another thought was fumoto sump plug. Good on the RRS with underbody protection plate but is probably too exposed on the puma. You fit the fumoto once and then operate the locked valve

I assume the plug is metric something x 1.5 pitch. You can get new ones for a pittance from places like Tony Powell's or IFS complete wit o-ring. What do LR dealers charge for one?

[101RRS]

What a load of nonsense - I have never replaced the plug and and just did an oil change this morning and did not change it. I inspect the O ring and do not not tighten the plug all that much.

I have used the same plug 5 times and there have been no issues - no leaks nuffin. I can see that it might be wise to replace it if it has been over torqued but other than that no.

Garry

I posted the above in Feb 2014 and am still using the same plug and O ring.

[DiscoJeffster]

I posted the above in Feb 2014 and am still using the same plug and O ring.

I’ve never undone mine. Always gone the suction route. Saying that, mine leaks oil from so many other places, not sure why I change the oil and don’t simply just top it up to refill it lol [emoji6]

[SeanC]

Seems strange to replace a sump plug every oil change. I replaced the sump plug on our Disco 1 with one of the Fumoto oil valves (fumoto.com.au). It made the oil changes a lot easier and cleaner. Not sure if they have one to suit you car but probably they do. We don't do too much off-roading so it won't get knocked about but if we were doing serious off-roading then I'd stick with the sump plug.

Replaced my sump plug with a Stalhbus valve. Cut a 40mm hole in the bash plate. Quick and easy now. Well easy if you are old school and like crawling around under the vehicle. No fancy oil extraction pumps for me.

[BradC]

I’ve never undone mine. Always gone the suction route. Saying that, mine leaks oil from so many other places, not sure why I change the oil and don’t simply just top it up to refill it lol [emoji6]

As the indy said to me when I bought ours "It's not leaking, it's just marking its territory".

[SeanC]

As the indy said to me when I bought ours "It's not leaking, it's just marking its territory".
“It’s not leaking. It’s sweating power”

[hpal]

The D3 metal sumps were known to corrode in the mother country.

Funny you mention it, mine had a few small scaly rust spots, nothing bad, i just rubbed them back and coated with primer and matte black before it became an issue. Glad we don't have rust like they do.

[scarry]

Done heaps of oil changes on our work vans over the years,never replaced a sump plug.
Have regularly replaced the copper and alloy washers though,as they gradually get worn.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Honestly don’t know why they persist with a drain plug, my last 3 oil changes have been via suction pump through the outlet at the top of the engine, so I don’t believe we need one.