Starting Woes

[numpty]

Sometimes Leon is reluctant to start, but with persistence will usually oblige. But not yesterday:mad:

Where it lives is too dark to see anything, so after dragging it out and up to the workshop, I thought I'd pull No 1 plug to see if I had spark. Well of course it started first hit and ran on 3 cylinders :D, so I'm none the wiser as to why he plays up.

He's always been sluggish on the starter, even after having the starter motor overhauled and a fresh battery makes no difference. Nor will he idle on the choke, so needs a feathered throttle until warm enough.

Any ideas on how I might fix these niggles?

Perry

ps........my recently purchased Nanocom is now registered, but I can't find the harness connection on Leon which might make diagnoses easier.

[newby@54]

Numpty


I'm a long way from being any kind of expert but I'm experiencing the same sought of problem with my SIIA - despite a brand new starter motor and a good battery.


What I found by trial and error is that if I fiddle slightly with the heavy wire between the starter button and the starter she starts brilliantly. So a wiring or earthing problem maybe?? I'm going to remove the wiring today and clean up the contacts. Hopefully that works for you too.


Nic

[Phil B]

Perry,
I don't profess to be a series 1 expert but:
As Leon does not have an ECU (electronic control unit) there is not a connection for the nanocom to connect to.
The hard starting sounds like a choke issue as you also say that Leon will not idle on choke.
I would suggest that you take the air cleaner pipework off so that you can see down the throat of the carb and then operate the choke.
The choke butterfly valve in the carb should completely close off the intake and also in turn open the throttle slightly.
If it doesn't it is likely that the cable is broken or has become dislodged from the carb. Possibly it is loose and needs to be tightened up.
Hope this helps.

[numpty]

Perry,
I don't profess to be a series 1 expert but:
As Leon does not have an ECU (electronic control unit) there is not a connection for the nanocom to connect to.
.

:D G'day Phil.

Tongue was firmly planted in cheek when I posted that.

[Phil B]

Sucked in !!

[harry]

hi perry, how did it go when it lived in warmer climes?


electricity,
ignition,
fuel,


if it started ok when up here, and the batflattery is pumped up enough then
we can assume the timing is ok, so fuel management is a hiccup.
lately here is a bit cold and I have to do a bit more to get mine (2a) running,
all fuel related to my way of thinking,
normally, I just reach in and turn the key, it goes within two or three compressions.
I still haven't got it right, but a bit of choke helps and a gingerly application of hand throttle, and still haven't got in the car at this stage.
in fact, I dont think that I have ever sat in the car to start it since I have owned it.

[flagg]

Are both places where it wouldn't start, and did start level? Was the ground between them level?

Could it be a fuel pump issue?

[JDNSW]

With the Series 1, the fuel pump should chatter briefly when the ignition is switched on. If it does not do so, find out why. Same if it does not stop - indicates either an air leak in the suction, the pump isn't pumping, or it is flooding. But if the pump behaves normally, then you can assume fuel is getting to the carburettor.

Failure to start easily will then be possibly an ignition problem, and I think this is most likely your problem. This is most likely to be something that is working, but substandard. The first suspect is the points, but these are easily checked. Less easily checked is the condenser, but replacing it is easy and fairly cheap. I was surprised when I had to replace the coil on my 2a a while back, that it started and idled better than it had for many years! Check the voltage at the coil with the ignition on and the points closed - should be very close to battery voltage on the power side (if not find out where it went - connections or switch) and zero on the distributor side - points, connections or the hidden wire connecting the points plate to the body inside the distributor, or the engine/chassis earth if it isn't.

Starting difficulty will be caused by a sluggish starter - which, with an overhauled starter, and a new battery, will usually be due to a poor connection somewhere.

Low compression may also cause starting problems, as will an air leak on the intake manifold. (This will also cause poor idling, particularly when cold).

Then, of course, there is the carburettor. Could be lots of problems with it, although unlikely to be anything serious if it runs OK when warmed up. The choke cable is correctly adjusted, is it?

John

[wrinklearthur]

Can you identify the carburetor for us?

If it is a Solex, it just may need a bit of a clean up inside and as John suggested there may be air leakage around the intake manifold.

A vacuum gauge will tell you if there is an air leak and you can find one those gauges in a early Commodore instrument cluster, try at the wreckers.

[numpty]

Thanks all for replies.

I don't think there's much difference to its starting ability here as opposed to when it was north Harry. The longer it sits between starts the more recalcitrant it is. Just means I should drive it more often.

It points downhill where it's parked and I admit that is something I thought of too.

The carby is the proper Solex and was rebuilt about 6 or 7 years ago and has not done many miles since. These carbys don't have a choke butterfly as such. I pull choke out for starting, but once running the choke needs to be returned as per my first post. Much like a 2 stroke. :o It has an electric fuel pump and although not the original, this pump was on it when I got the car and runs fine.

I pumped the battery up again yesterday ;) and as it is now on the level, it started first go. I replaced the main battery leads and lead to the starter motor years ago and have cleaned and checked connections a number of times.

I'll be removing the distributor today to reset the points and will also check the timing as it does backfire when throttled off going downhill.

I lean more to an electrical issue as per John's post. Watch this space!

Cheers
Perry

[wrinklearthur]

Back firing down hill can be a timing issue of the firing point, valve timing (unlikely) and/or the idle mixture being too lean.

Don't pull the distributor off to do the points as the timing should be already set, just clean the points and reset the points and spark plug gaps.

Then the timing could be tweaked if it's off after doing a check.
To do a quick check, align the timing marks to the desired advance for your petrol octane, with the key on, distributor cap off, slightly wiggle sideways the rotor button (don't twist it to do this) and that gentle movement should cause the points to make and break, you should hear the sparking / clicking as a result.

Those Solex carbies can have some fine rubbish build up in the bottom of the fuel galley's and in the seat of the idle mixture screw, there are a couple of brass plugs in the bottom of the carburetor that you can undo to let the petrol flush out most of the rubbish and for the blocked idle mixture, the mixture screw can be tightened in then returned to it's original setting (count the turns), this opens up the orifice and that loosened rubbish can also be flushed out by removing those brass plugs.

One thing to watch out for when the distributor cap is off, inside the distributor there is a flexible earthing wire that is between the moving plate and the inside body, make sure that wire (which looks like a fine braided wire) is in good condition.

You will be on your way in a few minutes.

[bee utey]

The most common cause of backfiring during deceleration is an exhaust leak somewhere in the exhaust letting air in and leaning out the unburnt fuel in the tailpipe.

[JDNSW]

Thanks all for replies.

.......
The carby is the proper Solex and was rebuilt about 6 or 7 years ago and has not done many miles since. These carbys don't have a choke butterfly as such. I pull choke out for starting, but once running the choke needs to be returned as per my first post. ......
Cheers
Perry

You are aware that the "choke" actually has a halfway position, unless my memory is faulty. But this will be irrelevant to it starting, just may help after starting.

John

[numpty]

Ok. I cleaned and reset the points and checked the timing, which was way out. I think it must have been set at TDC instead of 10 deg BTDC. It certainly started and ran better after, although it has always run well.

Removed and cleaned the fuel bowl of years worth of detritus. It was then I noticed the correction jet in the carby was a little askew. It's threaded seat has almost broken away from it's position. I'm wondering whether to try glueing the threaded portion back in, or pulling apart and cleaning a spare carby I have and fitting that.

The carby came from an 80" 1600 and was rejetted to suit the 2 litre but the correction jet is sized 160 and should be 240 for the 2 litre according to my books. Maybe this has made a slight difference too.

More fun and games :D

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I think Leon is just trying to tell you something Perry--- ;)


can someone explain the choke thats not a choke please?:angel:

[B.S.F.]

I think Leon is just trying to tell you something Perry--- ;)


can someone explain the choke thats not a choke please?:angel:

From the Triumph Stag Site

Upon operation of the choke control, a lever on the side of the carburettor rotates a disc in the starter box. In the disc a set of holes of different diameters are drilled. When the disc is fully rotated, the largest hole is in communication with the starter circuit and provides the richest mixture.Fuel is drawn from the float-chambers via a vertical drilling adjacent to the central main fuel channels through the starter box and into the throttle body on the atmospheric side of the throttle plate. A cam, externally mounted on the choke lever, moves in conjunction with the starter disc, operating the throttle beyond the normal idle position to provide fast idle speed when the engine is cold.Progressively pushing in the choke rotates the disc and cam, bringing smaller holes in communication with the starting circuit thus weakening the mixture, while the cam allows the throttle linkage to return to the normal idling position.

[numpty]

Thanks BSF. I and I'm sure others are wiser now.


[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=4][COLOR="Red"]I think Leon is just trying to tell you something Perry--- ;)

I know Pete, but as he's 4 years younger than me, he shouldn't be complaining so much. He should be all go for Glenreagh after this.

[roversmith]

Numpty, the one thing people always forget to check. Tappets, would also explain back fire.


Cheers Greg

[numpty]

Well.........I pulled down one of my other carbys and the one in the car and used the middle section of the spare with the base, accelerator pump and top of the original. Cleaned and checked all jets, cavities etc, reassembled and mounted it. It backfired a few times and then I reconnected the vacuum line :angel: and it ran quite nicely.

I then removed the tappet covers and adjusted the tappets. Inlets were fine but exhaust were around 16 thou rather than 12. I know sometimes these are purposely opened up, but I took them back to 12 for now.

Took him for a run of about 25 k's on flat, uphill and down and runs like a charm with no backfiring on overrun anymore, which I'm quite chuffed with.

He's still sluggish on the starter though, so I'll be cleaning all of the contacts yet again.

Thanks to all who proffered help and advice. It was all taken onboard and acted upon as can be seen.

Perry

Oh and it idles on the choke now too.