Price vs Age - D3 or D4?

[Disco-tastic]

Hi everyone,

I've been back on the forum in the last few weeks after a long hiatus since i sold my first Disco a number of years ago. I must say that it's gotten even better than when I used to be on it! So many interesting builds and threads, and none of the crap you often find elsewhere. Thanks for being a bunch of legends AULRO

We've been told that the gearbox in our 20yr old camry is on its way out and I'm looking at getting a 4wd to replace it. I miss heading bush and driving on the beach and generally going places most can't - unfortunately the camrys not so great at that sort of stuff...

Oh, before we get too far it's worth noting I'm doing as much research as I can now so that if the camry does kick it I have a good understanding of what I want before I rush out and buy a new car. So I may not be buying anything in the next year, and so some of my assumptions below may change (such as the release of the next Disco).

I also know this questions been asked a million times, but some of my questions haven't been answered elsewhere so I'm gonna post them here.

Anyway, I've always wanted a Disco again, but having heard of sensor issues on the D3 I have been doubtful I'd ever buy one again. So after looking at the obvious alternatives (Prado, 100 series, Kia Sorrento, Jeeps) I've decided that none of them combine the comfort and capability of the Disco, and none (apart from maybe the Kia) are any cheaper to own or fix. I'm sure most of you already knew that :p

It will be a family car that my wife will drive most of the time, and I reckon it will do 95% on and 5% off road (that 5% will hopefully include some fun tracks!). I also have the intention of a 6 month round Aus trip in about 5 years time. I also plan to keep the car for 10 years+ if I can.

I have asked my mechanic and he votes D4 all the way - more power, better tech, less problems (in his experience). I have since been reading through these forums to find pros and cons for both D3 and D4, as well as checking carsales for available cars and prices (NSW only at this stage). I have picked 3 cars to compare, and would appreciate your feedback! (This is only to compare general prices and Km's so I won't post direct links to the adverts).

2006 D3 - $25K - 160 000km
Pros

Can fit 17" rims (therefore cheaper tyres too!)
HEAPS cheaper
Can fit rear locker if no E-diff


Cons

Older tech (newer is more capable out of the box Hill Descent etc)
No hands free bluetooth AFAIK
Older motor - less power (not that interested in Chipping/Reflashing ECU)
more k's and years means more unknowns (has the gearbox been serviced?)
It's already 9yrs old - when do D3's start wearing out? I don't want to get 5 years down the track and have issues when I'm planning to go on a large trip. Is this concern unfounded?



2010 D4 2.7L - $50k - 80 000km
Pros

Half the kays
Same motor (isn't it?) but new tech and electronics
only 5 yrs old
Can still fit 17" rims
Bluetooth


Cons

Twice the price of a D3!!
Less power than 3.0L
Twice the price of a D3!! ($25k is a big difference!)
No rear diff lock if no E-diff (unless ARB has added one lately?)


2010 D4 3.0L - $50k - 130 000km
Pros

extra power and economy
New tech and electronics
only 5 yrs old
Bluetooth


Cons

$50k - $25 more than D3
19" rims (18"GOE otption)
No rear diff lock if no E-diff


To me the price is a massive killer of the D4 dream. Is the step up really worth $25K? Will I regret not buying a 3.0L D4? (I plan to wait as long as possible before buying, or until the new D5 comes out and prices hopefully drop a little more). Also, spec isn't a major thing for me - they all have leather, and the only other thing I'd really like is Bluetooth hands free phone (though keyless entry would be a nice bonus!)

What do you guys think? Feel free to add any info you think would help!

Cheers

Dan

[shanegtr]

they all have leather, and the only other thing I'd really like is Bluetooth hands free phone
Not all, mine has cloth seats, only one other had cloth when I was looking for a D3 last year.
And if you get the base stereo you could always replace it with a decent double din with bluetooth to sort out the phone issue.
Me personally I couldnt afford the D4 (actually I probably could - more like I didnt want to spend that much on something Im only going to use offroad like a 4wd was intended to be)

[LGM]

For me I would be going for the youngest vehicle from an age perspective. In reality none of the vehicles you have mentioned really have what I consider to be a lot of km's on them. In my view a better measure is reflected in how they have been used / driven on / off road and where, city vs country. Most will have spent their time punting around town or on the highway. In any case a good expert's inspection will assisting your understanding. The newer vehicle would / should have better technology and potentially more fruit. :)

Some times the 'saving' at the time of purchase turns into the 'spending' after the purchase if you know what I mean!:(

My wives D2 has around 260,000kms on it is is going strong! I guess I better clutch a lot of wood having said that!

[Disco-tastic]

Not all, mine has cloth seats, only one other had cloth when I was looking for a D3 last year.
hi shane. Thanks for the feedback! Yeah I'd heard some had cloth but I havent seen any yet.


And if you get the base stereo you could always replace it with a decent double din with bluetooth to sort out the phone issue.
Thats good to know. Are the higher spec stereos swappable? I was concerned that everythinf was so integrated changin the stereo might cause more trouble than its worth...


Me personally I couldnt afford the D4 (actually I probably could - more like I didnt want to spend that much on something Im only going to use offroad like a 4wd was intended to be)

Yeah I'm similar. My initial budget was $30k so a D3 fits quite nicely there. But I keep hearing better things about the D4 and if I can wait a year they might be a better buy. I do want to get off road as much as possible, but in reality it will be a couple of camping trips a year, plus the odd family picnic.

Thanks again!

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[Leroy_Riding]

D3 with the low end stereo is easy to swap the stereo out. D4 looks more modern (painted guards and bumpers, LED lights. so I guess gives more of the illusion of grandeur.

the D3 though is much cheaper, I got my 2008 D3s for under 30K over 6 months ago. seen HSE's with similar kms that have done no more than run the kids to soccer practice for sub 30K and most are newer than 2006. . . .

If you can afford the D4 3.0 its probably worth it though, the 3.0 is meant to be leagues ahead of the 2.7. a 2.7 D4 over a 2.7 D3 though? nah. . . id save my pennies and get the D3.

my 2C

Leroy.

[Disco-tastic]

Some times the 'saving' at the time of purchase turns into the 'spending' after the purchase if you know what I mean!:(

My wives D2 has around 260,000kms on it is is going strong! I guess I better clutch a lot of wood having said that!

Thanks LGM! This is what im not sure about. If im paying $25k for a car that I expect to last 10 years then thats 2.5k a year. So a car four years younger should be an extra 10k plus the value of a better motor/spec/etc (all things such as services and repairs considered equal). Thats my logic at the moment - I guess im posting on here to see if that thinking is reasonable!


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[First LR]

Hi Disco-tastic,


I like your logic, except the part where "All things/repairs considered equal".


I don't think that's a very good assumption, because given age and wear of vehicle increases repair costs, I am not sure how you could consider repairs/maintenance of a 4yo car to be the same as a 15yo.


That's not even adding the extra cost of a breakdown in the middle of your outback trip.


I prefer to think of the potential cost of the worst case repair scenario/cost and then add probabilities to all of them. Not exactly sure how you would do that accurately for Discos unless you read a lot of articles on here, but based on my short experience, it appears that the D4s are much more reliable so certainly would give me more peace of mind in our trip around this great land.


Just my 2c worth and no offence to other D3 owners.

[strydes]

I had the same deliberation.

Drove both and upsold myself to the D4... then drove both engines and had to have the 3ltr... then the 8 speed... then I bought brand new!! And couldn't be happier. :D

[Disco-tastic]

D3 with the low end stereo is easy to swap the stereo out. D4 looks more modern (painted guards and bumpers, LED lights. so I guess gives more of the illusion of grandeur.

Haha "Illusion of Grandeur". Nice. I could always get a D3 and swap the lights and guards to make it look like a D4!


the D3 though is much cheaper, I got my 2008 D3s for under 30K over 6 months ago. seen HSE's with similar kms that have done no more than run the kids to soccer practice for sub 30K and most are newer than 2006. . . .

I will have to keep my eye out...

If you can afford the D4 3.0 its probably worth it though, the 3.0 is meant to be leagues ahead of the 2.7. a 2.7 D4 over a 2.7 D3 though? nah. . . id save my pennies and get the D3.

my 2C

Leroy.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Leroy!

[Disco-tastic]

Hi Disco-tastic,


I like your logic, except the part where "All things/repairs considered equal".


I don't think that's a very good assumption, because given age and wear of vehicle increases repair costs, I am not sure how you could consider repairs/maintenance of a 4yo car to be the same as a 15yo.


That's not even adding the extra cost of a breakdown in the middle of your outback trip.


I prefer to think of the potential cost of the worst case repair scenario/cost and then add probabilities to all of them. Not exactly sure how you would do that accurately for Discos unless you read a lot of articles on here, but based on my short experience, it appears that the D4s are much more reliable so certainly would give me more peace of mind in our trip around this great land.


Just my 2c worth and no offence to other D3 owners.

Thanks FirstLR,

I pretty much completely agree with what you're saying. From what i've read the D4's are generally less prone to problems (you would expect that I suppose) but a bit of preventative maintenance and correct spares should mean the D3 isn't far behind.

What I meant with the all things equal statement was that a D4 would cost about the same to service/repair as a D3 in a similar stage of life, i.e between a 10yr old D3 and a 10yr old D4 the costs of maintenance would be similar. Dunno if I've explained that very well...

Regardless, I appreciate your 2c!:)

Dan

[Disco-tastic]

I had the same deliberation.

Drove both and upsold myself to the D4... then drove both engines and had to have the 3ltr... then the 8 speed... then I bought brand new!! And couldn't be happier. :D

haha I'm a little scared of that happening. I don't think I can stretch the budget that far...:p

[Nomad9]

Hi Discotastic,
I faced a very similar dilemma, however I went about this a different way, like yourself I have this thought of things failing in the middle of nowhere, add to that I didn't have a spare $50k lying around to purchase a nice D4, and then pimp it a bit possibly, which is a natural thing you would want to do.

What I did for all my sins is I bought a cheaper petrol D3 4.0, they are cheaper and plentiful, I use this for my daily drive and excursions at the weekend. Because the D3 is very capable "out of the box" I have done very little to it apart from buy a good set of tyres and put them on 18 inch RRS rims, bit of tint on the windows, being black it looks great and puts a lot of other fourbies to shame when I rock up in basically standard guise and out perform.

This is the sin part, I have bought a relatively new Patrol with all the fruit, it has live axel, 17 inch rims, a drive train that will survive a nuclear attack and when you rock up at some outback station and tell them you have a problem, if you mention either Nissan Patrol, Landcruiser or Hilux they don't look at you like you landed from the planet Zod. You've got half a chance.

I know people will tell me that the have been everywhere and not had a problem, that's great, I have also heard first hand of some nightmares something I don't want to put my family through on the off chance. Logistically Land Rovers are harder to fix in remote locations (Defenders excepted) Warranties are great, and yes Land Rover have come good on the odd occasion I have needed something fixing in warranty.

However a warranty isn't worth a grain of rice on the side of the track when you are out of phone range on your own. Possibly looking for a remote key that fell out of your pocket.

I was in Uluru standing next to a guy at the garage there, his Jeep had broken down on the Great Central Road by Docker River, he reckoned that something had shaken loose in the electrical department and he couldn't find it. The guy wanted over $5k to go and get the vehicle with his tilt tray, being after lunch he wouldn't go until the following morning, got there the following day the vehicle had been stripped.

I still got out of this exercise of having two vehicles for under $50k, yes I know about insurances and all that stuff, I do my own servicing which does save me quite a bit. I'm not saying this is the way to go it s just a different slant on the issue you have.

[Disco-tastic]

Thanks Nomad9

I Originally thought about doing something like that, though I would by a wagon (generally cheaper to run and buy) for family duties and a 4wd of some type for touring/camping. I wasn't keen on twin regos and insurance though as that would be a good $1500-2000 a year could be spending on gear! (Or paying off the house)

I have heard similar stories about breaking down in the outback. I don't really have a great answer to that, though good preparation can go a long way.

How do you find the petrol d3? I haven't really considered them as I like the grunt and economy of diesels when loaded. I do suppose that if I found a low km example at a good price it would be a good choice (well at least not a bad choice :rolleyes:)

Cheers.
Dan

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[carlschmid2002]

I bought a 2005 SE V8 with all the fruit six months ago. I have owned Hiluxes, Cruisers, Patrols and a Defender and swore I would never own a petrol 4wd after my petrol Hilux. Well this car came along at the right price and I had to get rid of the ex wives car she left behind with the debt and now I have a V8 4wd. I love it. Mine has a dual exhaust and its sounds awesome. There are plenty of V8 HSEs around for under 30K and from what I here it is more reliable than the diesel. I get 11,5-12.5 l/100km on the highway and average 18l/100km around town. It drives beautifully and has heaps grunt for overtaking. Mine came with LR tank, ARB Bullbar, Kaymar rear bar, Alpine stereo with blue tooth, nav and reversing camera, UHF and roof racks. It had 6 new 18" tyres and got two new keys thrown in for 24K. I am looking at getting a D4 down the track but I think I would miss the V8. I have been looking closely at the D4 V8 on carsales. They were a !50K vehicle that can now be had for 60-75K. 276KW and better economy than mine. They have all the extras. There is only 2 on carsales at the moment. If you can handle the thirst test drive the V8.

[Nomad9]

Hi Discotastic,
Carl sums things up very well, I recently bought a V8 it was one of the only two up for sale at the time at a reasonable price, sub $30k, it had all the fruit. At the time I had my V6 petrol up for sale. A friend at work managed to convince me that selling my V8 to him rather than my V6 was a better option. Due to the usual circumstance I folded and sold the V8, something now in reflection I regret, however another one will come along at some point. In all honesty there is nothing wrong with my V6.
Going with a petrol you inherit all the usual D3 things, control arms, compressor etc, gearbox shudder , however you lose the oil pump housing issue, the drive belts, the water outlet housing, HP fuel pump issues etc. Plus you save yourself about $10k on the purchase price which when you carry out the delta between the price of diesel v petrol and the l/100 klm, you get a lot of petrol for $10k. My V6 has now done 238k, sounds sweet, gives me 13.0 l/100 klm consistently, no gearbox issues, I believe cheaper to service, engine wise; the rest of the servicing is the same for any D3 you buy.
As Carl mentions give a V8 a test drive, you'll get about 15l/100 I would think average, goes like a "raped ape" (I love that saying), pulls well, sounds good, eight spark plugs to buy instead of six, oil capacity is slightly more.

You might be surprised by the V6 I was, goes quite well.

[Disco-tastic]

Thanks Nomad and Carl

I'd love a V8 (the economy seems the same as the v6?) But AFAIK they only come in 5 seat configuration - I'm after a 7 seater.

Does the v6 require PULP or just regular ULP (91)? I'm not too keen on PULP as it's about 20c/L dearer than diesel and is harder to find in the outback.

Cheers

Dan

[carlschmid2002]

Thanks Nomad and Carl

I'd love a V8 (the economy seems the same as the v6?) But AFAIK they only come in 5 seat configuration - I'm after a 7 seater.

Does the v6 require PULP or just regular ULP (91)? I'm not too keen on PULP as it's about 20c/L dearer than diesel and is harder to find in the outback.

Cheers

Dan

Mines a 7 seater. I think you will find the 5 seater is rarer than the 7. I know when it comes to the D4 a lot of dealerships won't order 5 seaters.

[Nomad9]

Hi Discotastic,
The three I went to look at were all seven seaters. The engine will obviously perform a lot better on 98 octane, I use 98 in my V6 because I work for a petrol company and get a discount. If I was paying normally I would more than likely compromise on the 95 octane. The better the quality of the burn of the fuel in the engine the more efficient it is therefore you get a better bang for your buck. Using the 91 octane you may find your consumption is slightly higher so using the 98 octane would give better fuel economy so off setting the additional 20c/ litre.

In the outback you use what you can get, you can't afford to be fussy.

[TheBrownHornet]

Hi Discotastic,

Just to throw in a couple of cents worth regarding bluetooth that you mentioned early in the thread: I've got an 07 HSE with the premium sound but without the factory nav etc.

What little I understand they're hooked up through the CAN BUS and pretty difficult to change out. I had a Parrot Asteroid Smart installed in the cubby hole where the factory screen goes and fed it into the auxiliary input of the factory system. It gave me Nav, dual Bluetooth, reversing camera, digital music and because it's android based was able to have Aussie Explorer installed also.

On the negative side, the steering wheel selection controls are no longer any use, but volume control still works.

Picture attached.

Hope that expands options rather than muddies the waters too much.

Regards

Graham

[Disco-tastic]

Thats a neat install! Did you do it yourself? That seems like a good option on the premium models, but $1000 plus install and reversing camera is a little more than id like to spend.

Does the reverse camera come on the screen automatically when reverse is selected? Also, being android based, can you play angry birds while driving? :p

[Disco-tastic]

Thanks again Nomad and Carl. Your input is very helpful! Are there any issues with the V6 and V8 (ie like the oil pump cover on the diesel)? And do the transmissions suffer like in the diesels?

One of my concerns of buying a high mile car is the condition of the transmission. A low mile petrol may win me over because of that...

Cheers

Dan

[TheBrownHornet]

Hi Disco-tastic,

I had it professionally installed, but it wouldn't be too hard to do it yourself. IIRC i had to purchase the unit itself, a camera and an aerial adapter to get it to work.

It wasn't cheap, but reversing camera and phone integration were non-negotiable criteria for the vehicle so I had to factor it in when making the purchase.

The reverse camera is triggered automatically on selection of reverse gear, or I can turn it on manually: handy for watching loads in the trailer etc.

I'm sure the tech savvy can download all sorts of fun things like angry birds but it's beyond my skill or interest levels. If your question is really about inputs whilst driving, I haven't found any restrictions with the Nav etc.

Cheers

Graham

[Disco-tastic]

Haha nah not interested in games just having a laugh. Definitely interested in bluetooth with reversing camera a very handy bonus. I will see what I end up with car wise and weigh up my options.

Its a shame you're all the way over the other side of the country. I'd love to see your setup!

Cheers
Dan

[carlschmid2002]

Mine came with a Alpine unit that has Nav On and Off Road. Bluetooth, iPod connectivity and reversing camera. Plays movies through the iPod on the screen. I don't have steering wheel controls. I keep trying to adjust the volume with the cruise control as my other car has it.

[shanegtr]

Hi Disco-tastic,

I had it professionally installed, but it wouldn't be too hard to do it yourself. IIRC i had to purchase the unit itself, a camera and an aerial adapter to get it to work.

It wasn't cheap, but reversing camera and phone integration were non-negotiable criteria for the vehicle so I had to factor it in when making the purchase.

The reverse camera is triggered automatically on selection of reverse gear, or I can turn it on manually: handy for watching loads in the trailer etc.

I'm sure the tech savvy can download all sorts of fun things like angry birds but it's beyond my skill or interest levels. If your question is really about inputs whilst driving, I haven't found any restrictions with the Nav etc.

Cheers

Graham
Just out of curiosity, who did you have to install and what the rough $$ on those?

[TheBrownHornet]

Hi Shanegtr,

I had it done by Brian Wallace at Autotainment on 882 Albany Hwy, Victoria Park. He was pretty good to deal with and set it all up nicely.

Total was just shy of $2k.

Cheers

Graham

[Disco-tastic]

Hi everyone, I'm here to pick your brains again.

So I've been checking carsales on and off since starting this thread. I looked today and was a bit shocked to see a petrol SE with 160000km going for about $18k (I saw an S with 200000km for $10k :eek: ) I'm now really looking at a petrol as they are at least $10k cheaper than a similar km diesel. That'll buy a fair whack of premium unleaded...

My main question is had anyone done significant outback travel in a petrol? How did it go and how much extra planning was involved?

I know premium petrol is hard to find in some outback places and dont want to get stuck cos of crap fuel.

Can you use an octance replacement in 91RON fuel reliably in these motors?

Cheers for all the help and discussion, im finding it really helpful!

Dan

Edit: I checked and it's actually $18k

[letherm]

Hi everyone, I'm here to pick your brains again.

So I've been checking carsales on and off since starting this thread. I looked today and was a bit shocked to see a petrol SE with 160000km going for about $15k (I saw an S with 200000km for $10k :eek: ) I'm now really looking at a petrol as they are at least $10k cheaper than a similar km diesel. That'll buy a fair whack of premium unleaded...


Dan

When I traded my petrol Pajero, which had done 160,000 km, in on my D4 in 2013 I was told without exception that the trade in price was considerably less because of the petrol engine. The perceived view was that high mileage petrol engines won't last and you'd be up for major repairs/maintenance costs. As I said, "perceived view" but it may be worth considering whether this is a valid argument before you buy a high mileage petrol car.

I'm not expert enough to make a valid assessment as the D4 is my first diesel car but it's certainly food for thought.

Martin

[Disco-tastic]

When I traded my petrol Pajero, which had done 160,000 km, in on my D4 in 2013 I was told without exception that the trade in price was considerably less because of the petrol engine. The perceived view was that high mileage petrol engines won't last and you'd be up for major repairs/maintenance costs. As I said, "perceived view" but it may be worth considering whether this is a valid argument before you buy a high mileage petrol car.

I'm not expert enough to make a valid assessment as the D4 is my first diesel car but it's certainly food for thought.

Martin

That is another question I have, how long do the petrol engines last? People arent concerned about 300k km on a diesel (provided its been serviced) but what about 300k km on a petrol?

Cheers,

Dan

[loanrangie]

I wouldnt buy a petrol vehicle with more than 200k on the clock unless it was dirt cheap or i plan on an engine replacement , there are always exceptions.

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[letherm]

That is another question I have, how long do the petrol engines last? People arent concerned about 300k km on a diesel (provided its been serviced) but what about 300k km on a petrol?

Cheers,

Dan

I think it depends upon the sort of driving the car has done. Taxis do phenomenal kilometres but they are running all day and night so the engine isn't subjected to the short trip syndrome that a lot of city cars get and they seem to last a very long time indeed.

Martin

[Disco-tastic]

I wouldnt buy a petrol vehicle with more than 200k on the clock unless it was dirt cheap or i plan on an engine replacement , there are always exceptions.

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Yeah thats my general opinion too. Are the petrols the same as in the ford falcon? Only asking as the diesels are the same
as the territory.





I think it depends upon the sort of driving the car has done. Taxis do phenomenal kilometres but they are running all day and night so the engine isn't subjected to the short trip syndrome that a lot of city cars get and they seem to last a very long time indeed.

Martin

Who knows! Im guessing it would be a typical suburban/hwy mixture.

If its basically a Ford motor I wouldnt have too many qualms as they are everywhere.

Cheers,

Dan

[ozscott]

A modern well built petrol lasts well. We are not taking lazy nautrually aspirated diesels of yesteryear that were considered just run in at 300,000 k. Modern diesels have more problems and are not long life minimal maintenance motors. The petrol v6 drives well and sounds good. Test drive it and see what you like but dont let anyone tell you that diesels are more reliable and will last twice as long.
Cheers

[Nomad9]

Hi Ozscott,
I'm with you, I have had far more problems with my V6 LR diesels engines than I have ever had with my petrol D3 with 210,000 klms on it. I didn't get it dirt cheap however I did get a bargain. With the money I saved buying a petrol D3 I can run my petrol for four years with the delta between the diesel cost, economy, Diesel V petrol and still be ahead, and that isn't counting the money I would save on repairs to the diesels I have had in the past.
I doubt I would buy another LR 2.7 V6, I don't make the same comment about the 3.0 diesel engine which I believe is a step change between it and the 2.7. Diesel engine repairs are never cheap, ask a Toyota owner when they have to replace te injectors.......... Oh what a feeling.

[Disco-tastic]

Thanks ozscott and Nomad9.

Nomad, what sort of economy are you getting from the petrol? Based on the advertised economy figures I would get 4-6 years of "free" fuel compared to the diesel.

Also, how does the V8 compare with the V6 for economy and maintenance costs? I've always wanted a V8... :p

Cheers,

Dan

[carlschmid2002]

I can't speak for the V6 but with the V8 it depends on the type of driving and how heavy is your right foot. When I first got my V8 I had as high as 24l/100km on one tank. I did enjoy putting the boot in. My last 2000km I have averaged 15l/100km which is mainly commuting in 60-80kmp/h zones. On a road trip I can get 11.5l/100km sitting on 110kmp/h for hours on end. This is better than my 2.2 Defender was. A full set of plugs is about $200 on Ebay but they are supposed to last 80000 km. You can buy a full service kit for about $100 on Ebay and then 8 litres of oil. The expensive bit to service is the transmission.This is the same for all engines though. The fluid can cost up to $100 a litre. It can be had for about $40 a litre. If it hasn't been modded a steel pan and filter is $400. Just a filter and gasket is $150. Depends on use but you will probably want to service the transmission every 100000 km. Another expensive item is the handbrake. I think mine might be on it's last legs. I think a kit is about $2000. I guess the only other cost in the short term is brake pads. I think $300 should cover it. Remember with fuel the V8 drinks Premium. Not sure about the V6.

[Cambo_oldjaguar]

Which petrol engines are you refering to?

4.0L V6 = Ford Cologne
3.0L V6 supercharged = Jag AJ126
4.4L V8 = Jag AJ41
5.0L V8 = Jag AJ133

They are all very different and have their own advantages/disadvantages.

One thing is they are all tuned to run a little rich since this is better for harsh climates/conditions, for example heavy towing. So the fuel consumption isn't that great.

[ozscott]

Presumably if he says d3 he means 4.0 v6 or 4.4 v8.

Cheers

[Disco-tastic]

Thanks Carl thats exactly what I wanted to know!


Presumably if he says d3 he means 4.0 v6 or 4.4 v8.

Yep, thanks cambo the two that scott said are the ones im interested in. If the economy is similar and I find a good one I'm inclined to go for the extra power and that v8 sound! (On paper the economy is roughly the same, but the real world is generally different)

From what I can see their both pretty decent motors, though finding bits at a wreckers may not be the easiest (though I suppose all the LR motors are like that)

Anyone got any economy numbers on the V6?

Cheers

Dan

[Cambo_oldjaguar]

Ah right, well the thread title confused me a little :)

Given the choice between the 4,0L V6 and the 4,4L V8 i'd be taking the V8.

I'm sure the V6 is a fine engine, but on paper it appears pretty gutless...

4.0L's 161kW/339Nm vs. the 4.4L's 224kW/427Nm

[Nomad9]

Hi Discotastic,
Carlschmid is pretty much on the money, Mine is the 4.0 V6 cologne engine, I have been as low as 11.8 l/100 klms this was on a long run with a steady 100 klm/ hr speed. Mine going to and from work and pottering around at the weekend is sitting quite happily on 12.8 l/100klms at the moment hasn't moved for weeks.

I just seem to be under the bonnet a lot less with the petrol than I did with the diesel, oil filter every five thousand, oil every ten thousand, tranny service, coolant etc etc at the right times and that is it. 210 thousand klms nearly and it is sweet as, a lovely drive.
I drove a 4.4 for a week, that was fun I'm going to get another one of them, awesome, it was the HSE with just that little bit of extra fruit. Comes with free flying goggles............. the term "goes like a raped ape" fits very well, and it does............ I'm not exactly Ricardo, however the faces on some people in the occasional SS that doesn't quite get it is priceless.

[ozscott]

Ah right, well the thread title confused me a little :)

Given the choice between the 4,0L V6 and the 4,4L V8 i'd be taking the V8.

I'm sure the V6 is a fine engine, but on paper it appears pretty gutless...

4.0L's 161kW/339Nm vs. the 4.4L's 224kW/427Nm
On paper yes but the v6 drives better than the paper stats suggest. Might be the match with good gearing.
Cheers

[Melbourne Park]

A close relative of mine went bankrupt and is now in gaol. He wanted me to buy his 4.4 litre petrol D3, top model, with 40 odd K on the clock. The wholesale price was $15,000, my buy price. His scheme was for me to own it, and he could drive it until he went to gaol. I did not buy it as I would not profit from such behaviour. Or be seen to be profiting from criminal activities (a corporate fraud scheme). But IMO they are not worth much at all wholesale. Why buy a high mileage one when there must be low mileage ones around?

[Disco-tastic]

Carl, Nomad and Scott,

Have any of you tried 94 octane E10 in yours?

My work car is a Hyundai i20 (woo :rolleyes: ) which according to the guys at hyundai is supposed to take 95 premium, but runs fine on the 94 E10. When I first got it I just put 91 ULP in it but it started knocking under load so havent gone back.

If the ford and jag motors can handle it it would make running it near home a bit cheaper.

Cheers

Dan

[carlschmid2002]

To be honest I haven't even seen it. I will look out for it and give it a go. As I have the two tanks I can just dilute it with PULP 98 if it doesn't sound good.

[Nomad9]

Hi Discotastic,
Not being funny here, I have run mine on 98 since I bought it, I work for a rather large oil company and get a discount on my fuel. I have no rhyme or reason to go looking for an alternative. I am more than happy how mine runs on 98, I have removed a couple of spark plugs and put my "Super-cheap" camera on a stick into the bore and everything is spotless, if it ain't broke I'm not going to look for ways to fix it.

Cheers Marty

[LandyAndy]

Carl, Nomad and Scott,

Have any of you tried 94 octane E10 in yours?

My work car is a Hyundai i20 (woo :rolleyes: ) which according to the guys at hyundai is supposed to take 95 premium, but runs fine on the 94 E10. When I first got it I just put 91 ULP in it but it started knocking under load so havent gone back.

If the ford and jag motors can handle it it would make running it near home a bit cheaper.

Cheers

Dan

I wouldnt use any ethanol fuel.Especially if you are not doing lots of ks.It attracts water wich causes corrosion issues in the fuel system.
Andrew

[Disco-tastic]

I wouldnt use any ethanol fuel.Especially if you are not doing lots of ks.It attracts water wich causes corrosion issues in the fuel system.
Andrew

We do about 15 000km a year. our current car goes through 40-50 litres a week at a guess. Trips vary from 5 mins to 30mins mostly.

I'd be looking to get a long range tank anyway so corrosion of it would be a ways off I would hope. I could always check it when I bought the car and then when I replaced it. I don't know what the rest of the fuel system is made from.

I was more concerned about engine issues as some cars which require PULP are fine while others aren't.

Cheers

Dan

[Disco-tastic]

Hi Discotastic,
Not being funny here, I have run mine on 98 since I bought it, I work for a rather large oil company and get a discount on my fuel. I have no rhyme or reason to go looking for an alternative. I am more than happy how mine runs on 98, I have removed a couple of spark plugs and put my "Super-cheap" camera on a stick into the bore and everything is spotless, if it ain't broke I'm not going to look for ways to fix it.

Cheers Marty

Im only a little jealous about that setup :p

[LandyAndy]

We do about 15 000km a year. our current car goes through 40-50 litres a week at a guess. Trips vary from 5 mins to 30mins mostly.

I'd be looking to get a long range tank anyway so corrosion of it would be a ways off I would hope. I could always check it when I bought the car and then when I replaced it. I don't know what the rest of the fuel system is made from.

I was more concerned about engine issues as some cars which require PULP are fine while others aren't.

Cheers

Dan

For thos km travelled it wont hurt buying PULP!!!!.
It will be better for the vehicle and should return better economy if you arent heavy with the right foot.
We also have a Ford Territory turbo(XR6 turbo motor),the mrs car.Only tip PULP into that,it doesnt do many ks these days as she cant drive due to a stroke.I love taking it for a spin to clean the cobwebs out.2007 model,only done 59000ks.
Andrew

[letherm]

My two cents worth is that I did a 6 month test in my last car (Pajero) - 3 months on ethanol ulp and three months on Vortex ULP 98 non ethanol. The 6 months concerned I did the same type of driving - mainly city (Sydney peak hour) commuting to work about 20kms away and return plus other usual stuff like shopping and the odd trip. Results were quite definite. When I used ethanol for 3 months I used more fuel and the car was noticeably less powerful and responsive. When I ran non ethanol petrol for 3 months the car ran better and used less fuel. I kept a log of cost versus mileage and the non ethanol, despite being more expensive, cost less to run overall and the car ran a lot better and was more responsive. My mechanic who has been in business for 30 plus years has seen numerous fuel tanks rusted out because of water separation with ethanol fuel. He actively warns people not to use it because of the problems he has seen. I understand this may not be the case for everyone but that was my experience.

Martin

[rar110]

My two cents worth is that I did a 6 month test in my last car (Pajero) - 3 months on ethanol ulp and three months on Vortex ULP 98 non ethanol. The 6 months concerned I did the same type of driving - mainly city (Sydney peak hour) commuting to work about 20kms away and return plus other usual stuff like shopping and the odd trip. Results were quite definite. When I used ethanol for 3 months I used more fuel and the car was noticeably less powerful and responsive. When I ran non ethanol petrol for 3 months the car ran better and used less fuel. I kept a log of cost versus mileage and the non ethanol, despite being more expensive, cost less to run overall and the car ran a lot better and was more responsive. My mechanic who has been in business for 30 plus years has seen numerous fuel tanks rusted out because of water separation with ethanol fuel. He actively warns people not to use it because of the problems he has seen. I understand this may not be the case for everyone but that was my experience. Martin

I get what he's saying. I agree PULP would be higher quality. But diesel tanks also attract moisture when warm unused fuel is returned to the tank. Most fuel tanks are plastic these days. Moisture should be filtered/separated out by the usual 2 micron setup for CRD motors.

[Disco-tastic]

Thanks for the replies guys

I should point out that I specifically mean the 94 octane rated E10, not the 91 stuff you get in a lot of places. From what I understand both motors require 95 octane?

Cheers

Dan

[Melbourne Park]

Hi Discotastic,
...
What I did for all my sins is I bought a cheaper petrol D3 4.0, they are cheaper and plentiful, I use this for my daily drive and excursions at the weekend. Because the D3 is very capable "out of the box" I have done very little to it apart from buy a good set of tyres and put them on 18 inch RRS rims, bit of tint on the windows, being black it looks great and puts a lot of other fourbies to shame when I rock up in basically standard guise and out perform.

This is the sin part, I have bought a relatively new Patrol with all the fruit, it has live axel, 17 inch rims, a drive train that will survive a nuclear attack and when you rock up at some outback station and tell them you have a problem, if you mention either Nissan Patrol, Landcruiser or Hilux they don't look at you like you landed from the planet Zod. You've got half a chance.

I know people will tell me that the have been everywhere and not had a problem, that's great, I have also heard first hand of some nightmares something I don't want to put my family through on the off chance. ...

Hah hah.

I met a fellow a few years ago at Wilson's Prometory, in the camping ground. He had a new Prado VX D4D, towing at Trak Trailer Topaz (the new Mk1 version).

He had had several Patrols, but the last one he bought was crap. The Renault gear in it failed. He was up at Weipa and his gear box failed. They did have Nissan service there - but the Nissan guys had a three week wait for a new gearbox. In the back they had 13 broken gearboxes - my friends made that 14.

good luck with the Nissan. And if you want to tow, good luck with its power plant.

[Melbourne Park]

I wouldnt use any ethanol fuel.Especially if you are not doing lots of ks.It attracts water wich causes corrosion issues in the fuel system.
Andrew

Yep, and lots of crap on the plugs and top end I've heard.

[Nomad9]

Hi Melbourne Park,
What other parts of the Nissan are Renault? The engine is a Renault derivative and there was problems, there have been several revamps and modification since conception in 2000, the early Pootrols suffered with oil starvation which resulted in all sorts of issues including melted pistons. I've now had two GU's one was an early one which I chipped and maintained myself, never had a problem, regular oil changes etc using a quality oil no issues.
No matter what anyone buys there will be horror stories. The Pootrol I have is a series VII, chipped with a 3 inch mandrel bent system and a high flow intercooler, goes exceedingly well actually. Just towed my 1.8T camper trailer up North and back never missed a beat. Wasn't as comfortable or as refined as my D3, my old RRS or the LC Sahara I had, also doesn't have the suspension I had in the Sahara that could have cost me $8k to fix if I hadn't done it myself. The Pootrol doesn't have all the gadgetry however it is functional and fit for purpose.
At some point I'll I suspect go back to a RRS or a later D3 maybe even a D4, having my petrol D3 for my daily drive and weekend playmobile suits me fine.

Hopefully I won't have gearbox number 15.

[TerryO]

Knowing what I now know from personal experience, with a budget of $30k ... I'd buy a V8 D3 HSE.

If I could stretch to $45k then I'd be happy to shop around and buy a low kilometre TDV6 D4.

The D4 is a better vehicle and has far less issues. The 4.4 V8 gets rid of many of those potential problems though.

[Disco-tastic]

Knowing what I now know from personal experience, budget under $30k ... I'd buy a V8 D3 HSE.

If I could stretch to $45k then I'd be happy to shop around and buy a low kilometre TDV6 D4.

The D4 is a better vehicle and has far less issues. The 4.4 V8 gets rid of many of those potential problems though.

Thanks Terry.

I'd love a diesel D4 but at this stage it's still a bit too much of a stretch for us. (Un:p)fortunately our current car is still going strong and though I'm impatient (I literally dream of owning another disco! :o ), I still plan to wait as long as I can.

What issues does the V6 have that the V8 doesn't? In fact, apart from the oil pump cover, what common issues does the diesel have that the others don't?

Cheers

Dan

[ozscott]

Mate you are well ahead with longevity if you plan to hold onto the petrol v6 versus a diesel. No turbo replacment issues. Cheers
Ps flame on!

[TerryO]

Thanks Terry.

What issues does the V6 have that the V8 doesn't? In fact, apart from the oil pump cover, what common issues does the diesel have that the others don't?

Cheers

Dan


Hi Dan, the early TDV6's are great engines, they go well, give pretty good fuel economy and are smooth and pretty quite. They are getting old though and most have high mileage now and it's not uncommon for there to be serious bearing/ crank failures. Turbo's can be problematic on Occassion and like all modern diesels if you get a bad batch of diesel then your injectors are stuffed straight away. I'm not saying that if you buy a TDV6 that you will have these problems because most don't but it's not uncommon.

The later model D4 2.7 TDV6's had the new bearings fitted as comes with the 3.0 and don't seam to have the same bearing/crank issues.

The main thing with the V8 apart from more power, being much quieter and even smoother is it's extremely rear to hear about engine failures, actually can't remember any. Just make sure the spark plugs have been changed recently and come out easy.

The V8's usually come in HSE's so you end up with a top end high spec Disco, if you wait long enough you will find a early V8 HSE with even more options than a standard HSE which just makes them a even nicer Disco to own.

It's not unusual to find a early HSE with Adaptive headlights, Logic7 stereo, Sunroofs and consul cool box. Often the high spec ones come with a e-diff as well. The V8 also has the larger brakes fitted standard which means running at least 18's, which now is not that bad because of the large choice of tyres but was a real pain for a number of years. There are very few 5 seaters and from memory they were all 2005 models.

The down side of the V8 is fuel usage especially if you live in a big city, in the country they aren't bad on fuel. On the other side a high mileage TDV6 could quite easily end up costing way more in repairs and maintenance costs then you would spend in extra fuel bills in a V8.

The best thing to do is go drive a few different Disco's and see what one best suites your needs and pushes your buttons.

Good luck with it.

[Disco-tastic]

Thanks Scott and Terry,

My main concerns with petrol are:
- Fuel costs
- Premium fuel availability in the outback

I was concerned about longevity vs the diesel but from everyone's responses the petrols last as long and are much simpler.

I've calculated that the petrol could be up to $1500 a year more expensive. At $9K less than the diesel (based on an 80k km car) that's 6 years before im even. As I plan to keep the car for longer there's no real saving there so I'm really weighing up outback hassles vs day to day running costs. As I'm probably only going to be truly outback for hopefully a 6 month stint in about 5 years I don't know how much weight that should carry...

I will definitely have to organise some test drives...

Thanks to everyone so far for taking the time to pass on your opinion! It's been really helpful!

Cheers

Dan

[Ace]

Hi Disco_tastic, im going through the same things in my head as you. With a growing family the trusty old Tdi D1 I have just isn't big enough. So im considering selling my D1 and my Xr8 and upgrading to a D3 or 4. I love the idea of the 3.0L 180kw 600nm D4 however I to don't think I can justify the coin. I don't really want a petrol as I will hopefully be commuting a bit further to work if things fall in to place so the diesel is really only what im looking at.


My only other concern is towing my camper, my D1 does it fine so im sure a D3 will have no worries at all, I just know the 3.0L D4 will do it standing on its head.


I've been looking online and there are lots of D3 with around the 200k km's mark for anywhere from 25-35k. That's within my budget. Decent D4's with the SDV6 are starting at around 50k with reasonable km's.


Its a big decision because I think im worried about the same things as you in terms of expensive diesel repair bills if things go wrong. I think if I did go the D3 I'd keep it for 3-5yrs and eventually upgrade to the D4. My wife has just had a bub and we plan to have more so she wont be on her full income for the next few years. Its all a consideration.


I am reading everyones comments with interest.


Sorry to hijack your post but its the first one I have found with good info.

[Nomad9]

Hi Ace,
I was in the same place as you are, I haven't changed my place of work however I have driven the diesel and petrol D3's to work, in all honesty I don't notice the difference. However the difference I do notice having now owned the V6 petrol D3 for 12 months near enough to the day 200k on the clock now. I have only opened the bonnet maybe four times and that has been by choice and not the need to.

The only issue you are comparing here is the engines not the general running gear, that is the same. I was diesel through and through prior too owning a petrol D3, now wouldn't go back. I'll soon be looking for a D3 4.4, driven one loved it.

[LandyAndy]

Ace.
If you arent in a hurry,wait until the 8 speeds suit your price range.I have a bought new,almost 12 month old pov pack MY14 with extras.It has the lower spec 3.0lt TDV6.It kills my olde chipped TD5 D2 in performance and economy(and every thing else).The 8 speed auto is the best auto Ive ever driven.
Andrew

[rar110]

Hi Disco_tastic, im going through the same things in my head as you. With a growing family the trusty old Tdi D1 I have just isn't big enough. So im considering selling my D1 and my Xr8 and upgrading to a D3 or 4. I love the idea of the 3.0L 180kw 600nm D4 however I to don't think I can justify the coin. I don't really want a petrol as I will hopefully be commuting a bit further to work if things fall in to place so the diesel is really only what im looking at. My only other concern is towing my camper, my D1 does it fine so im sure a D3 will have no worries at all, I just know the 3.0L D4 will do it standing on its head. I've been looking online and there are lots of D3 with around the 200k km's mark for anywhere from 25-35k. That's within my budget. Decent D4's with the SDV6 are starting at around 50k with reasonable km's. Its a big decision because I think im worried about the same things as you in terms of expensive diesel repair bills if things go wrong. I think if I did go the D3 I'd keep it for 3-5yrs and eventually upgrade to the D4. My wife has just had a bub and we plan to have more so she wont be on her full income for the next few years. Its all a consideration. I am reading everyones comments with interest. Sorry to hijack your post but its the first one I have found with good info.

To be honest, with a very young family, most won't be going too far a field. I think a D3/4 is an excellent vehicle. Air suspension and TR is truly impressive. However, it will probably be more expensive to run than both your current vehicles. If you buy a high km D3 you are more likely to take a hit with a high cost repair. For example I just did a tranny in my RRV with 240,000km. The original quote to refurb was $7-8,000. Thankfully I've managed to find a used tranny. But don't buy a high km vehicle unless you can face that type of risk.

Two years ago I would never be seen in anything other than a 110/130. I am a modern LR convert.

With your budget and apparent risk profile I would buy a medium km MY13 Freelander 2 with a view to buying a D4 sometime down the road. The Freelander 2, with revised interior, looks to be a very spouse friendly and capable vehicle, with TR, that does on/off road very well.

[Disco-tastic]

Hi Ace!

Ive found a few diesels with 100-130k km for up to $35k. My two biggest things with the diesel are the outback fuel and the general grunt of a torquey engine (my older D1 used to make things look easy and was tricky to stall! You had to be trying! :p )

As Nomad said though the petrols arw simpler and cheaper to service, thiugh thirstier. I was talking to my mechanic today and he has serviced a few diesels and loves them. Doesnt know heaps about the petrols and wasnt keen on the jag v8 (he reckons parts would be expensive, though doesnt really know)

Can anyone comment on parts costs for a 4.4L V8?

Its really hard to choose! I suppose if I didnt like it my backup would be selling the car and buying a new one, kinda like Ace is thinking, but I'm not heaps keen on swapping bits over to a new car (some mods will leave holes in the trim and bodywork), yet dont want to spend heaps modding something if im going to get rid of it. It gets worse if I have to rebuild a transmission...

Cheers

Dan

[Disco-tastic]

Ace.
If you arent in a hurry,wait until the 8 speeds suit your price range.I have a bought new,almost 12 month old pov pack MY14 with extras.It has the lower spec 3.0lt TDV6.It kills my olde chipped TD5 D2 in performance and economy(and every thing else).The 8 speed auto is the best auto Ive ever driven.
Andrew

Hi Andy!

At this stage I'm just researching so that when our current car dies I will know what I want. Who knows how long its got left...

The D4's are currently $45k for TDV6 with 6 speed. my budget is about $30k else I wont be able to afford accessories. For the sake of all the D4 owners I hope the prices dont drop THAT quickly, though it would be nice for me :D

Cheers

Dan

[TerryO]

Hi Ace!

Can anyone comment on parts costs for a 4.4L V8?



Cheers

Dan



Since 2009 when I first joined Aulro I can't remember anyone having to rebuild / replace the 4.4, it would appear that they are that reliable, so you may have to wait a little while for feedback on that.
The V8 has the usual consumables like plugs, which should be changed more often then the manual says so, other than that the only thing I remember is a plastic T piece that gets brittle and fails which will cause a bad water leak, if you replace it every couple of years then it won't be a problem. As for diesels, well that's another story.

If you think your D1 is impressive off road then you are in for a revelation if you drive any D3 with any engine of road, even the S.

[Disco-tastic]

My D1 had front and rear lockers, 32" tyres and a 2" lift. I know the D3's are amazing for their levels of comfort but I dont see myself pushing one as hard as I pushed the D1 :p

I have been watching heaps of videos of D3/D4/RRS from the people on here. They are pretty amazing. I feel a little sorry for Black Betty. She gets pushed pretty hard ...

Cheers

Dan

[First LR]

My D1 had front and rear lockers, 32" tyres and a 2" lift. I know the D3's are amazing for their levels of comfort but I dont see myself pushing one as hard as I pushed the D1 :p

I have been watching heaps of videos of D3/D4/RRS from the people on here. They are pretty amazing. I feel a little sorry for Black Betty. She gets pushed pretty hard ...

Cheers

Dan

What I love about my D4, apart from the comfort, is that I don't need to push it as hard to get pretty much everywhere others do with a LOT more effort. :D


Just came back from Cape York and it was amazing in all situations with no need to be recovered. I did however recover a few others on the trip.


Each to their own, but I prefer comfort wherever I go ;)

[Ace]

Hey guys,

I want the diesel for the economy, as much as a v8 would be nice i'd just prefer diesel.

I do like the Freelander 2's but want low range and off road capability the F2 cant provide.

I need to sit down and look at finance options and work out where my budget ceiling is. At the moment theres only 1 D4 3.0L on car sales under 50k.

I have discounted leasing but need to find out what the monthly cost is to lease a D4.

I havent more research to do but valuing everyones input, thanks.

Sent from my SM-G925I using AULRO mobile app

[Disco-tastic]

Each to their own, but I prefer comfort wherever I go ;)

Yeah, I'm becoming more like that these days too! ;)

[Disco-tastic]

Ace,

Let me know how you go and what you end up getting. I figure we're both looking at similar vehicles from the Sydney area. I still have a bit of time on my side so will sit it out until I know and find what I want :)

Cheers

Dan

[Ace]

Ace,

Let me know how you go and what you end up getting. I figure we're both looking at similar vehicles from the Sydney area. I still have a bit of time on my side so will sit it out until I know and find what I want :)

Cheers

Dan

Will do, im getting a quote and finance option done up on a new SDV6 D4 SE under the 2.9% finance deal done up to see what that comes back at.

Looking at the prices of 3yr old models doing a finance on one at the low interest with a 50% balloon at the end of it they are worth well over 50% of the original purchase value. My main worry was that i'd be stuck with something worth less and be out of pocket a heap. But if its worth more and I can trade in again after 3yrs and get ahead a bit more then it might be an option. All comes down to the fortnightly cost and if it fits in the budget. The peace of mind of a new vehicle with warranty would be the way to go, and the assurance that there wouldnt be any costly repair bills.

I'll keep you posted.

[LandyAndy]

Hey guys,

I want the diesel for the economy, as much as a v8 would be nice i'd just prefer diesel.

I do like the Freelander 2's but want low range and off road capability the F2 cant provide.

I need to sit down and look at finance options and work out where my budget ceiling is. At the moment theres only 1 D4 3.0L on car sales under 50k.

I have discounted leasing but need to find out what the monthly cost is to lease a D4.

I havent more research to do but valuing everyones input, thanks.

Sent from my SM-G925I using AULRO mobile app

PM Sent.
Andrew

[Ace]

Got the PM, thanks Andy.

I priced one up and with the 2.9% finance and a 50% balloon payment it worked out at around $350 a week, about $100-150 more than i want to commit to.

As a result i've been doing some research and based on a budget of $200/week or $400/fn I can work with a loan amount of around 40k if i wanted to go that high.

I've done some research and there are a few good D3's out there with between 100000-150000km on the clock, for between 30-40k. If i want to go to around the 200000km mark then there are some good ones for around 25-30k.

What is everyones opinions on km's and such. Is 200000km really all that high on a well serviced D3?

Probably the only thing that worries me is the auto box which is an issue on petrol or diesel and then the fuel system, if that packs it in i've read repair bills can be as high as 15k.

[Disco-tastic]

Probably the only thing that worries me is the auto box which is an issue on petrol or diesel and then the fuel system, if that packs it in i've read repair bills can be as high as 15k.

Yeah I've been eyeing of cars around the 100-160k km mark too with the sane concerns

Which fuel system cost that much to fix. Diesel or petrol?

Cheers

Dan

[Ace]

Yeah I've been eyeing of cars around the 100-160k km mark too with the sane concerns

Which fuel system cost that much to fix. Diesel or petrol?

Cheers

Dan

The diesel system mate. Its not confined to Land Rover only, pretty much any Common Rail Diesel engine these days has the potential to cost you an arm and a leg. From memory TD5 injectors can reach as high as $1500 each.

The common rail systems are very reliable and can easily surpass 300000km but you have to be very particular about your fuel quality and fuel filters. Water in a CRD fuel system will all but destroy it and leave a hole in your hip pocket. It will be a problem on all modern diesels fitted with this system.

Having said that if you keep your fuel filter changes up to date and only buy from reputable service stations then you'll be fine.

Im still going to go for a diesel and just be careful with the fuel i buy and keep my filter swaps as regular as I can.

In terms of the gearbox issue i think this can be safely prevented with your driving style and investing in the bottom plate that can be removed without jacking up the engine to tilt it to create space to remove it so that regular servicing can be carried out. They seem to be more designed as a sealed for life unit like the DSG boxes in the VW's. From all accounts once you get the first service done and change the bottom plate and then do regular services on it then theres no reason it shouldnt go on for quite a few km's.

[Disco-tastic]

Thanks Ace

Yeah ive heard about Td5 injectors. If I did get a diesel I would look at adding an additional filter to try and help keep muck out of the expensive parts of the system. From memory there are some threads either on here or disco3.co.uk where some people have done it.

My concern with the gearbox is that if I get one over 100k km they may not have been serviced and then the damage may have already been done. I know this can be checked via service log books but im still vary wary of it.

At this stage I would buy a cheaper petrol except that premium is so expensive! Their relative simplicity compared to the diesel outweighs the torque deficit for me and my driving. Its pretty much what nomad, ozscott and terry have been saying all along :p

Edit:
That said if I had the money I'd go for a low mileage later model diesel as I'd probably keep it for longer and the fuel price difference would be a much bigger factor.

Cheers.

Dan

[Ace]

Thanks Ace

Yeah ive heard about Td5 injectors. If I did get a diesel I would look at adding an additional filter to try and help keep muck out of the expensive parts of the system. From memory there are some threads either on here or disco3.co.uk where some people have done it.

My concern with the gearbox is that if I get one over 100k km they may not have been serviced and then the damage may have already been done. I know this can be checked via service log books but im still vary wary of it.

At this stage I would buy a cheaper petrol except that premium is so expensive! Their relative simplicity compared to the diesel outweighs the torque deficit for me and my driving. Its pretty much what nomad, ozscott and terry have been saying all along :p

Edit:
That said if I had the money I'd go for a low mileage later model diesel as I'd probably keep it for longer and the fuel price difference would be a much bigger factor.

Cheers.

Dan

I think if you get one with over 100000km and get the service done as a matter of priority and then keep the servicing up to it then you'll be fine. Its not a cheap exercise so i think its an every 100000km kind of thing anyway.

In terms of fuel if you can keep the original filters changed regularly and then maybe add a water trap or something like that that would be a better combination.

Im pretty set on getting a D3 with the lowest km's i can find, just need to sell my Xr8 and my D1 first.

[Disco-tastic]

I think if you get one with over 100000km and get the service done as a matter of priority and then keep the servicing up to it then you'll be fine. Its not a cheap exercise so i think its an every 100000km kind of thing anyway.

In terms of fuel if you can keep the original filters changed regularly and then maybe add a water trap or something like that that would be a better combination.

Im pretty set on getting a D3 with the lowest km's i can find, just need to sell my Xr8 and my D1 first.

The problem ive heard of is that they work fine without a service over 100000km, with the fine metal particles from wear increasing the viscosity of the oil. When you change the oil it cleans it all out and then the box can start slipping. It then requires a full rebuild, though addition of something like Dr Tranny can prolong it's life.

The car im looking at has 160k km and is $17k. If I can get them below $15k even with a worn gearbox its an appealing buy. Only problem is the cloth interior, but I can live with that. I just need to wait for the camry to die! Who knows how long that will be!

Cheers,

Dan

[Ace]

The problem ive heard of is that they work fine without a service over 100000km, with the fine metal particles from wear increasing the viscosity of the oil. When you change the oil it cleans it all out and then the box can start slipping. It then requires a full rebuild, though addition of something like Dr Tranny can prolong it's life.

The car im looking at has 160k km and is $17k. If I can get them below $15k even with a worn gearbox its an appealing buy. Only problem is the cloth interior, but I can live with that. I just need to wait for the camry to die! Who knows how long that will be!

Cheers,

Dan

Cars only die when you dont want them to, the more you want it to die the longer it will run for lol

There are plenty online that have well over 250000km so im not to worried about things below the 200000km mark. As long as I can get it and then start a servicing routine that I am happy with then it should be ok. Fingers crossed. Im also hoping to just stick with the SE and not get all the bells and whistles associated with the HSE. I'd prefer one with the rear diff lock but im told that not all were fitted with them.

[Disco-tastic]

Cars only die when you dont want them to, the more you want it to die the longer it will run for lol

Haha yeah well maybe until it needs any more money spent on it. Or until I get sick of playing tetris every time I have to fit all the baby stuff in it to go away.

We have a camping trip coming up so we'll see how that goes...

Anyway best of luck searching for a car!

Dan

[carlschmid2002]

I have a SE that has all the features of the HSE except the leather seats. The rear seats are like new but I my look at recovering or getting some HSE seats for the front down the track. I have heard of people having a few dramas with the electric seats. I was more concerned with all the other extras like bulbar, winch, LR tank, Nav system, rear bar all of which I got for free.

[Ace]

Hi Carl,

Im the same, i'd prefer to get all those goodies already on the car to. Alot of the SE's seem well equipped as it is.

Does yours have the locker?

Matt

Sent from my SM-G925I using AULRO mobile app

[Disco-tastic]

Quick question,

Do the 17" wheels fit the d3 v8 model? Ive seen one with compomotive 18's so am assuming the smaller wheels won't fit, but just thought id check.

Cheers

Dan

[LandyAndy]

D3 V8s have the 19" wheels/brakes as far as I know.
There is an add on gumtree WA for a D3 V8 with extra rims,says they are 18",BUT the rims in the pic look like the 19" D3 V8 version,they have more spokes than the 17" but look similar.Im no knowledge box on the D3,the identical extra spare off a D3 I have is 19".Im sure the D3 V8 owners will set the record straight.

2005 Land Rover Discovery 3 - V8 4x4 + $8250 of Extras | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Denmark Area - Denmark | 1091030759 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/denmark/cars-vans-utes/2005-land-rover-discovery-3-v8-4x4-8250-of-extras/1091030759)

Land Rover Discovery 3 Rims - 3 for sale - Car also for sale | Wheels, Tyres & Rims | Gumtree Australia Denmark Area - Denmark | 1091185408 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/denmark/wheels-tyres-rims/land-rover-discovery-3-rims-3-for-sale-car-also-for-sale/1091185408)
Andrew

[Nomad9]

Hi Disco tastic,
Quick answer, Land Andy is right, I have a TDV8 with Brembo brakes the (standard RRS) 18's won't fit the TDV8 without grinding some metal off the calliper, good luck with that one. 17's you're dreamin........... sorry

[LandyAndy]

Hi Disco tastic,
Quick answer, Land Andy is right, I have a TDV8 with Brembo brakes the (standard RRS) 18's won't fit the TDV8 without grinding some metal off the calliper, good luck with that one. 17's you're dreamin........... sorry

He is after D3 V8 petrol info;););););),Perhaps the D3V8s did have 18" wheels as per my links,as you say,17" dreaming.
Andrew

[TerryO]

From memory the standard 18" rim is the smallest size rim that will fit on a V8 D3.

[carlschmid2002]

I don't have the locker. It came with a Warn winch instead. The cable was kinked so I put a synthetic one on. Mine came with 6 x 18" rims and 6 x near new tyres. Very happy.

[Disco-tastic]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Confirmed what I thought/feared. I want the v8 but want 17's! Argh!! I guess you cant have everything hey! :rolleyes:

Ive recently been reading about the known big end bearing issue in the 2.7 diesels. Does anyone have a link to the affected VIN's? Particular for D4's as I doubt I'll pay the premium for a diesel D3, based on the expensive experiences of others. The D4 is harder to find in petrol at my budget.

Also, has anyone had a preventative fix done? I.e sump off and bearings checked? Or is it a massive job?

Cheers

Dan

[carlschmid2002]

I think you will find more than enough tyre options in the 18"s as the Land Cruiser 200 runs these. Compared with the 19" tyres on my F6 they are not as expensive as I thought. My rear tyres on F6 are looking tired at 18000. I have done 22000km this year in the D3 and they still look very fresh. I have Bridgestone road pattern. If I haven't upgraded to a D4 by the time they need changing i will be getting BF Goodrich All Terrains. I could get near on 100000km on my Patrol. Very hard compound though, not so good in the wet. My dream car is still the D4 V8. These were higher specs than the HSE. Over $120000. They are fairly rare on carsales but have taken a big hit on price. I wonder if you could bolt on the Supercharger from the Range Rover Sport? Nice to dream.

[Disco-tastic]

My dream car is still the D4 V8. These were higher specs than the HSE. Over $120000. They are fairly rare on carsales but have taken a big hit on price. I wonder if you could bolt on the Supercharger from the Range Rover Sport? Nice to dream.

Oooooohhhhh that would be nice! :p

Cheers

Dan

[Disco-tastic]

I think you will find more than enough tyre options in the 18"s as the Land Cruiser 200 runs these...

Im thinking ill run the Bridgestone D697 or similar on 18's for general duty. I am keen on a larger mud tyre on 17's for play and would like the extra sidewall. Its not really a must though, but then neither is the V8 :)

Cheers

Dan

[TerryO]

The choice of tyres for 18" rims is now very good so don't let that put you off.

The other option that some have done is buy a set of diesel D3 brakes for bugger all from the wreckers and fit them to a V8 D3 and then you can run 17's. Some have also done this even on their D4's.

You would need to check with the RTA etc if it's legal of course ... :angel:

[Disco-tastic]

The choice of tyres for 18" rims is now very good so don't let that put you off.

The other option that some have done is buy a set of diesel D3 brakes for bugger all from the wreckers and fit them to a V8 D3 and then you can run 17's. Some have also done this even on their D4's.

You would need to check with the RTA etc if it's legal of course ... :angel:

Thanks terry.

I had thought of putting the smaller brakes on, but I wasnt sure if the traction control systems were calibrated for the larger brakes or not? Doesnt sound like anyone has had problems with it tho.

Cheers

Dan

[LRD414]

Ive recently been reading about the known big end bearing issue in the 2.7 diesels. Does anyone have a link to the affected VIN's?


Was it this one Dan?
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/2391313-post4.html
From this thread:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/222577-d4-2009-tdv6-3-0-engine-seized.html

Perhaps worth searching on Disco3 forum for details.

EDIT: that's for the 3L rather than 2.7L

Cheers,
Scott

[Disco-tastic]

Was it this one Dan?
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/2391313-post4.html
From this thread:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/222577-d4-2009-tdv6-3-0-engine-seized.html

Perhaps worth searching on Disco3 forum for details.

EDIT: that's for the 3L rather than 2.7L

Cheers,
Scott

Thanks Scott.

I did read that one. AFAIR it wasn't clear if incorrect oil was the cause of that failure.

I can't find the one I read. I'm pretty sure peterOZ was a party of it. Or maybe his was the cam timing chain breaking :o.

I found a story from the uk of a lady who's tdv6 blew the motor at something like 120k km. Land rover knew/know there were/are affected motors but haven't really published much about the issue (though it might be on topix).

Im leaning towards spending $20k on a petrol with less than 150k km on the clock and maybe trading in 5 years depending on how it goes and how many mods I make. I can't bring myself to spend $30k or more on a D3 diesel with similar k's when there are 150k km D4's going for $39k here and there. Especially with the possible expense of a new motor in the diesel.

Would love one like yours scott, but the shock of going from a 95 camry to a new D4 might kill me - death by permagrin :D

Cheers

Dan

[LRD414]

Would love one like yours scott, but the shock of going from a 95 camry to a new D4 might kill me - death by permagrin :D
I wonder if there's a service bulletin for this ... "owner reports severe shock"

[carlschmid2002]

Thanks Scott.

I did read that one. AFAIR it wasn't clear if incorrect oil was the cause of that failure.

I can't find the one I read. I'm pretty sure peterOZ was a party of it. Or maybe his was the cam timing chain breaking :o.

I found a story from the uk of a lady who's tdv6 blew the motor at something like 120k km. Land rover knew/know there were/are affected motors but haven't really published much about the issue (though it might be on topix).

Im leaning towards spending $20k on a petrol with less than 150k km on the clock and maybe trading in 5 years depending on how it goes and how many mods I make. I can't bring myself to spend $30k or more on a D3 diesel with similar k's when there are 150k km D4's going for $39k here and there. Especially with the possible expense of a new motor in the diesel.

Would love one like yours scott, but the shock of going from a 95 camry to a new D4 might kill me - death by permagrin :D

Cheers

Dan
If you are careful on what bits you buy and then consider maybe a earlier D4 in the future (which you will when you fall in love) most bits will transfer. There is a sticky about this.

[Meken]

I think you will find more than enough tyre options in the 18"s as the Land Cruiser 200 runs these. Compared with the 19" tyres on my F6 they are not as expensive as I thought. My rear tyres on F6 are looking tired at 18000. I have done 22000km this year in the D3 and they still look very fresh. I have Bridgestone road pattern. If I haven't upgraded to a D4 by the time they need changing i will be getting BF Goodrich All Terrains. I could get near on 100000km on my Patrol. Very hard compound though, not so good in the wet. My dream car is still the D4 V8. These were higher specs than the HSE. Over $120000. They are fairly rare on carsales but have taken a big hit on price. I wonder if you could bolt on the Supercharger from the Range Rover Sport? Nice to dream.


Just stump up the $180k for the SC RRS

[Disco-tastic]

If you are careful on **** bits you buy and then consider maybe a earlier D4 in the future (which you will when you fall in love) most bits will transfer. There is a sticky about this.

Thats the plan! So far the list is Llams, rock sliders and rear drawers. Actually add to that bluetooth. All transferable, though whether i can be bothered if/when the time comes to change them over is another thing! :D

Cheers

Dan

[Disco-tastic]

Sooooooooo...

Left work early today to head to Sydney. Drive home in a 2008 D3 SE 4.0 V6 :D its got 149000km and a full service history (including a transmission oil change at 116000km). It's got leather and rear air con but apart from that is pretty standard

I did really want a V8 but this came up at a good price with no major mechanical issues, and i couldn't pass it up. Like many have said, it drives better than the figures suggest (still no V8 tho! :p )

Only issue I have with it at the moment is that the tow bar has had the security lock bent and I can't change a tyre til I get it off! Is there a back up way to get these out? I noticed a little Allen key hole on the opposite side...

A big thanks to everyone on here for your help and advice. You guys and girls are excellent!

I'll put a pic up tomorrow when it's light.

Cheers

Dan

[Disco-tastic]

Pic

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/590.jpg

The little guy didnt want to get out! He loves it.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/81.jpg
He even jumped in the centre console box and tried to hide in there haha. Unfortunately no photo of that. Thanks everyone!


Cheers

Dan

[Narangga]

Looks like the drivers seat is in good nick. Other than the tow hitch I hope everyhting else is too. :D

[Tomo]

Hi Disco- Tastic
I am going through the same process ATM and have found this thread very useful.
Any chance of a 6 month update? Fuel consumption, how has that been?
Cheers

[Disco-tastic]

Hi Tomo!

Haha fuel consumption is the thorn in the side of what is otherwise an excellent vehicle. At worst im getting 22L/100km around town. At best is 10.5 on the freeway. Generally it sits between 17-20 around town, though a short stint on a highway will get that down to 15.

I think some of it is due to extra fuel required when the motor is cold. It doesn't take long to warm up, but i have noticed if it's just doing 5 minute trips the fuel consumption is higher than if it was doing similar driving for a longer period. But one of the reasons i bought a petrol is 5 minute trips are hell on a diesel.

I originally worked out fuel differences using a 20c/L (or maybe 10, i cant actually remember) difference in cost for premium vs diesel, and a 5L/100km consumption difference (10 vs 15), and calculated that it would take 200,000km to make back a $10k price excess on thw diesel. That doesnt include differing service costs.

Premium has been cheaper up until last week, and my consumptions been a little more, but even if you halve that estimate its still a lot of kays until you break even. But if you need the range the diesel is the way to go.

I do have an ongoing thread which shows some of what ive been up to here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=230572

Dan's D3

It's mainly trip videos as i havent done much to it.

Overall i bloody love it. The permagrin is well and truly in place :D

Cheers

Dan

[Disco-tastic]

I should also add that i had the EPB module jam on me due to misadjusted brake shoes, as well as a few plays in some mud. I couldn't unjam the module or get both rear wheels off the ground so had to take it to my mechanic. All up it cost me $500 to fix (including brake drum clean and adjustment), but that was over 2 days as his hoist was broken, and it was the first time he did it. To do it yourself is nothing, or if someone who has done it before does it i reckon it'd be half that (about 3 hrs).

Also, its a problem all D3/4's have. But after my experience i would encourage people to make rear brake shoe adjustment part of the first service when they buy a disco. :o

Cheers

Dan

[carlschmid2002]

I did the brakes myself. Have you seen this.

[carlschmid2002]

Hi Tomo!

Haha fuel consumption is the thorn in the side of what is otherwise an excellent vehicle. At worst im getting 22L/100km around town. At best is 10.5 on the freeway. Generally it sits between 17-20 around town, though a short stint on a highway will get that down to 15.

I think some of it is due to extra fuel required when the motor is cold. It doesn't take long to warm up, but i have noticed if it's just doing 5 minute trips the fuel consumption is higher than if it was doing similar driving for a longer period. But one of the reasons i bought a petrol is 5 minute trips are hell on a diesel.

I originally worked out fuel differences using a 20c/L (or maybe 10, i cant actually remember) difference in cost for premium vs diesel, and a 5L/100km consumption difference (10 vs 15), and calculated that it would take 200,000km to make back a $10k price excess on thw diesel. That doesnt include differing service costs.

Premium has been cheaper up until last week, and my consumptions been a little more, but even if you halve that estimate its still a lot of kays until you break even. But if you need the range the diesel is the way to go.

I do have an ongoing thread which shows some of what ive been up to here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=230572

Dan's D3

It's mainly trip videos as i havent done much to it.

Overall i bloody love it. The permagrin is well and truly in place :D

Cheers

Dan
I think I get slightly better economy in the V8. Very similar.

[Disco-tastic]

I did the brakes myself. Have you seen this.

Thanks Carl

Yeah i saw that and read all about it. Just couldn't get the module unjammed lying beneath it. I'm still not really sure how the mechanic unjammed it!

I couldn't get both rear wheels off the ground using my little bottle jack (i don't trust the stabbed jack). I was trying in off road mode, so I will try in locked access next time, as i think my bottle jack is small enough.

Cheers

Dan

[carlschmid2002]

I don't even carry the jack anymore. It is rubbish. Mine came with a Kaymar rear bar and ARB bull bar so I just lift it with a Highlift and put stands underneath. I have the highlight on at all times and carry at least one stand at all times. I want a proper floor jack for home but the ones rated to 3000kg are pricey. I have four stands now.I will always put them underneath, even just changing the oil. I don't trust the air suspension.

[carlschmid2002]

I just tried to send the workshop manual. Too many files. You can buy it on here on a CD from the shop or it will be emailed to you if you don't already have it. Another tip with the brakes is ditch the low wear sensors. if you cut the wires and join them there is no need for them as long as you check your pads regularly. They will go off when there is still 1/3 wear available and they are more annoying than the no seatbelt tone.

[Disco-tastic]

Thanks carl

I ended up buying one over the weekend. Lots and lots of info!

Cheers


Dan

[rubber]

Wow, Dan. Thoroughly enjoyed reading this post. It was like you had mirrored my search also.

Same as you, wanted the D4 3L diesel, but could not justify the money. Then looked at the 2.7L D3 diesel but worried about issues with high km turbo diesels.

In the end, figured out we did less than 10,000k per year, so with the cost of a D3 petrol around $10k less than a diesel, it made no sense to buy the diesel.

Very happy with the performance of the 4L V6, and fuel economy is exactly what you get. Around 10.2l/100km on the highway, but with short trips around town (wife uses it for school runs etc, and she is a lead foot) can be as bad 20l/100km. I have been running it on RON98 as it seems to get slightly better economy, than RON95.

We had a 6cyl diesel patrol before this and it averaged 15l/100km around town and not much better on the highway, so not a big change with fuel costs.

Researched the V6 engine extensively before buying the D3 and they seem to have no big issues. Made by Ford and used in lots of other vehicles besides the D3.

Like yourself, plan to get a 3L D4 in a few years.

Rub.

[Disco-tastic]

Glad it helped Rub!

Mine is still going strong. Ive had the EPB jam on me (the rubber grommets in the rear drums are missing, letting mud and all sorts in), and just had to replace a wheel bearing ($500 a bearing, thankfully fitted).

I'd recommend you get the EPB brakes adjusted at your next service, just in case. A jammed EPB is a pain in the wallet!

Cheers

Dan

[ozscott]

Great stuff. I have a good mate with the v6 petrol. Impressive motor and with diesel failures becoming more prominent, unless i was doing huge ks or towing heavily all the time i would get the petrol v6 any day just for refinement.

Cheers

[Disco-tastic]

Yeah for what we do at the moment its almost perfect - the fuel consumption is the only bad bit!

We are hoping to do a round australia trip in about 5 years. Not sure whether we'll upgrade to a D4 diesel or have a go with petrol. Diesel just seems a lot easier out there! (Well, until your oil pump casing explodes :p )

Cheers

Dan