The restoration of Wombat

[crackers]

Subtitled: Look what followed me home Mum. Can I keep it? :banana:

I posted a thread in the general series section looking for help finding a project vehicle (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-land-rovers/220348-looking-project-help.html). Among the many, helpful replies, was a series from Sitec who pointed me towards a vehicle he knew of ... and had been secretly lusting after methinks.

We viewed said Landy this arvo and, after some dickering with the current owner (she was in a wreckers) that culminating with me parting with $900, I became the proud owner of a Series 1 Land Rover :eek: :D [bigsmile]

Thanks Simon. You do realise that I can now blame you for all the dramas this Landy inflicts upon me :twisted:

Some specifics.
She's a Series 1.
Lovely and straight.
Not a basket case because most parts are still holding hands but no, I won't be doing any club runs anytime soon.

These photos were taken by Simon and uploaded as attachments - I'm not sure how to represent them as attachments so have linked to them directly - sorry for any problems this causes.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/series-land-rovers/94382d1432636059-looking-project-help-image.jpg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/series-land-rovers/94383d1432636850-looking-project-help-image.jpg

The engine is a 2 1/4 litre, so not the original but at least it's a Landy 4 cylinder. If you look at the following photo, you might notice a few things awry, such as the bucket of pushrods in the front left hand corner. I can reassure you that the bores look good ... because we simply lifted the head off and had a look :angel: The head looks complete (ie, has valves and rocker gear). Carby looks complete. No thermostat cover but the radiator actually looks in really good nick, no bent fins to speak of.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/series-land-rovers/94384d1432637184-looking-project-help-image.jpg

Inside, all the instruments are there **phew**
The steering wheel looks good but no horn button.
We won't mention the seats ... because there aren't any.

The chassis rails look good with some surface rust but surprisingly little really - farm truck in a dry area maybe? Similarly, the firewall has a bit of surface rust but no immediately apparent rot. Some aluminium panels show some wear (where the front of the bonnet sits on the mudguard for instance, where there's a worn hole) and some tearing on the back of the tray which you can see in the photos. The cabin seems in very good condition. Door tops will need ... attention.

Simon will pick her up next week and take her back to his house north of Gawler until I sort out some way of getting here all the way to Happy Valley (about 90km). His suggestion of my hiring a car trailer didn't really kick off when I pointed out that I own a small MG and the trailer alone would account for about half of her towing capacity. I'll come up with something.

So Wombat isn't home yet and won't be for a day or two, but she's now a member of the family. Why Wombat? Well, wombats are known as the bulldozers of the bush so I felt it was appropriate :D

Thanks for all your help Simon. Who's going to regret it first? :cool:

[crackers]

Now, the ever important question of what is she exactly?
Simon took this photo of the vehicle id plate

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/series-land-rovers/94385d1432637314-looking-project-help-image.jpg

Typically, the numbers are a bit oddball but Diana (Lotz-A-Landies) provided the following:

It has to be a 1956 107", they are the only option for a chassis number with a round top on the first digit and 776 for the next three digits.

As John suggests in another place the chassis number after 1949 contains a digit for the year. From after 1949 and prior to 1955 it was the first digit and the sequence contained eight digits. (That is why CalVIN suggests an unknown year with 8 digits) From 1955 to 1961 it was the fourth digit in a sequence of nine digits.

The options for that chassis number are:

107" truck cab 277600102 (sold by Genges Garage, Canberra on 10/2/1956)
107" station wagon 877600102, although its unlikely that there were 102 station wagons in Australia in 1956.

You can tell a wagon chassis because it remains low behind the front seats and only rises a little before the rear wheels, where the truck cab rises up immediately after the front seats/cab.

Diana

That's fantastic as it means Wombat was sold in the same year I was born.

I'll be following this up further when I get her home.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Congrats on your purchase. :BigThumb:
.
:rulez: Piccies are required.

[crackers]

Congrats on your purchase. :BigThumb:
.
:rulez: Piccies are required.

Thank you. I certainly hope congratulations are appropriate, the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.

Gotta get her home first. Don't worry, your reputation precedes you and as soon as I have the numbers and the photos I'll be begging your assistance in getting to know her intimately enough to do a sensitive restoration.

[crackers]

Can anyone recommend workshop manuals for this Landy? I work for a library supply firm so if one is in print, I can buy it, failing that, I'll be chasing manuals that are out of print or now on DVD. In any case, I'd rather be mislead by a manual than make it up as I go along.

[digger]

Crackers,

congrats on joining the SA arm of AULRO!!

Hope you have lots and lots of fun...

photos as she goes, check out some of the other restored threads...
Dinty is one restorer who's thread springs to mind - his series 1 is a ...well in deference to your name I'll change that... is a ripper!!!

The back corner looks like a corner capping may be all you need- if so .. sweet!:D
..
Im not sure if Triumph Rover Spares have any series in at the moment but when I was last there there was just the bones of a S3...
..
Search on here, somewhere there is a thread about building your own seats for a S1...

Have fun mate!

(pm sent)

[numpty]

Noice Crackers.

A year younger than mine, but I have to replace the chassis and bulkhead in mine.

Factory workshop manuals are the way to go and quite often they appear on ebay. It's where I sourced mine. Parts manual is a good thing to get too.

Good luck with the resto.

Perry

[gromit]

Try here
Results for land rover | Book Depository (http://www.bookdepository.com/search'searchTerm=land%20rover&search=Find+book)

Free freight and reasonable prices. Series I workshop manual $43.87

Colin

[Sitec]

Dependant on time, I will try and get 'Wombat' out of the Graveyard Monday or Tue avo. Once home, I'll post up some more pics of him and try and get a better shot of the I.D plate, and locate/highlight the chassis number... (Diana should I be looking on his front right leg or his rear left by the x member?). Crackers, I have a set of rims that hold air, so I'll sit him on those, and I also have several spare 4.7:1 Series diffs here so will add them to the pile. Think I've also got a center cap for the steering wheel... Not a horn push type tho. 107guss might be worth PM'ing as he has an immaculate version of this truck which would give you something to go by.... ;) Here's his truck... :)

[crackers]

Thanks mate. I was wondering about tyres, thinking maybe fit tubes during the restoration then buying new tyres when preparing her for the road.

I can see I'm going to have to rescue her from you quickly before you have a chance to set up machine gun emplacements and hire a squad of SAS to stop me getting her :D

[crackers]

Try here
Results for land rover | Book Depository (http://www.bookdepository.com/search'searchTerm=land%20rover&search=Find+book)

Free freight and reasonable prices. Series I workshop manual $43.87

Colin

Ta mate. Been there and found it. Now I need to find $43 :censored:

Will be buying one fairly quickly, manuals are invaluable ... and really cool to read. I especially love those old ones, they have a lot more character than more modern fare.

[crackers]

I've quoted this from the "Looking for a project" thread to keep all discussion about the resto in this thread.


Diana, I think you are on the money here, and I'm fairly sure that first digit is indeed a 2.

Good news that because it makes her (the Landy, not Diana :angel:) the same age as me which is kinda cool :cool:


The rear tub needs some capping and the bonnet has worn thru the top of the wings... Normal on dirt roads. Chassis looks brilliant.

Even I could tell it looked good. Pity we couldn't see the tray floor which my son said had a lake covering it. It's all ally though isn't it?


Re the engine, its a 2.286, and the head (Im guessing) has been removed to do the head gasket. There's a little bit of water sat in pot 2 but otherwise it all looked ok. I chucked a rag in it to suck up the water, and once I get it out of there early next week for Crackers, I'll get it home, put it on a spare set of rims that hold air and pour a cup of diesel onto the top of each pot and then gauge the rust issue in the bore.. Being a 2.286, there'll be one floating around somewhere.

With the thermostat cover removed, the block has been exposed to air for some time. I'm guessing that means rust. I'm thinking it'll be a pull the motor apart, get the block cleaned and sorted (bored out a bit?) and rebuild the motor, but it would be nice if I can get it running before being forced to do that.


I had one last yr but sold it!! :(...

Finally, something to be grumpy about :D


I'll take pics of the extraction and send them to Crackers so he can start his thread with them!! ;)

Just post them is thread mate, along with a blood and gore description of the mission if you're so inclined.

Thanks for all your help mate.

[crackers]

I told my 14 year old daughter that we now own a Landy (she's only with me half the time) and this was her reply, complete with teenage grammar (we need to have words).


oh my! i looked it up on google images and i can safely say it certainly has character, although i cant imagine myself driving it to school

Love the way she expressed it, particularly the 'oh my'. I wonder how she'll feel about driving it when it's finished.

[JDNSW]

Can anyone recommend workshop manuals for this Landy? I work for a library supply firm so if one is in print, I can buy it, failing that, I'll be chasing manuals that are out of print or now on DVD. In any case, I'd rather be mislead by a manual than make it up as I go along.

Go to "shop" on the top bar of this page and look for "Manuals CD/DVD". You need the Series 1 1954-1958. This will help support the forum.

John

[digger]

Thanks mate. I was wondering about tyres, thinking maybe fit tubes during the restoration then buying new tyres when preparing her for the road.

I can see I'm going to have to rescue her from you quickly before you have a chance to set up machine gun emplacements and hire a squad of SAS to stop me getting her :D

Or he fits a diesel locomotive engine or a mack truck or kenworth engine into it :twisted:


I told my 14 year old daughter that we now own a Landy (she's only with me half the time) and this was her reply, complete with teenage grammar (we need to have words).



Love the way she expressed it, particularly the 'oh my'. I wonder how she'll feel about driving it when it's finished.

What, in the name of Greystoke, makes her think you will ALLOW her to drive the "Wombat?" :o
(unless it has seatbelts she wont be able to drive it on SA roads until she's off her P's!)

[crackers]

What, in the name of Greystoke, makes her think you will ALLOW her to drive the "Wombat?" :o

She imagines that I'm restoring a car to give to her. Her preference is for a red MG, of which I approve (apart from the colour). Ahh kids, isn't one of the privileges of parenthood bursting their illusions?
I learned to drive in my grandpa's MG Magnette and always hoped he'd give it to me. He didn't of course, and I wound up with a Hillman Minx ... which saw my dad and I rebuilding the motor ... twice.

Besides, the Land Rover Register has driver training and she loves her Scouts. Sounds like a marriage made in heaven to me. All I have to do is build the car :eek:

[Sitec]

Or he fits a diesel locomotive engine or a mack truck or kenworth engine into it


There's only one sensible diesel option for a Series one IF one requires it and that's a 200 Tdi and Lt77 Defender box... That said a little alloy V6 diesel would sit in there nicely!! ;)

[crackers]

There's only one sensible diesel option for a Series one IF one requires it and that's a 200 Tdi and Lt77 Defender box... That said a little alloy V6 diesel would sit in there nicely!! ;)

With that chassis, she'd carry a Merlin engine wouldn't she? :twisted:

[Sitec]

With that chassis, she'd carry a Merlin engine wouldn't she? :twisted:

The rear tub is long enough to carry one... Not sure the axles would be up to the job though!!! :cool:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

There's only one sensible diesel option for a Series one IF one requires it and that's a 200 Tdi and Lt77 Defender box... That said a little alloy V6 diesel would sit in there nicely!! ;)It has to be a Defender 200Tdi and rather than a LT77, I'd be going for a stumpyR380. Much more reliable box.

Diana

[Sitec]

I'd be going for a stumpyR380. Much more reliable box...


At what cost tho.. I looked into it a couple of yrs ago for Hill's truck and decided a cheep LT77 box would do for starters.. :)

[Sitec]

Wombat is extracted from the car graveyard. Lucky escape for this lovely Series 1!! There is a Series 2, 2 x Disco 1's, 1 x P38 and a few others still down there...

[Sitec]

Here's Wombat home safe. It will only be for a short stop over tho, as Wifetec is already eyeing him up!! "I do like the front on these" was her first words.. I reminded her that the half restored Tdi Series 2 has the same front. That's diverted that for a little while!! :D

[crackers]

Here's Wombat home safe. It will only be for a short stop over tho, as Wifetec is already eyeing him up!! "I do like the front on these" was her first words.. I reminded her that the half restored Tdi Series 2 has the same front. That's diverted that for a little while!! :D

I'm aware of the SAS detachment you've got preparing defensive positions. Be warned, I've got a Commando unit ready to liberate her :twisted:

Thanks for rescuing her mate ... and finding her ... and introducing us ... and helping with the funny little bloke who owns the wreckers ... and ... sheesh, he'll be expecting Christmas cards after this :eek:

[Sitec]

Hi Crackers. Sorry I didn't get down today.. The overnight ear turned into a weekender.. Good food, great company and location, 200 acres of scrub, 2 quads and 2 bikes.. Couldn't come home!!

But, I did have a quick look over Wombat this avo. Here is a better pic of the chassis plate...

[Sitec]

Which leads me to the next pic.. This is written on the front right wing of Wombat. The name and location ties in with the pic that was posted of the hand written sales diary which has the name Ginn.. There's some history to be found here me thinks.....

[crackers]

Righto mate. Any chance of next weekend? (rats, no 'begging' smilie)

[Sitec]

Aiming for fri avo or sun all being well.

[crackers]

But, I did have a quick look over Wombat this avo. Here is a better pic of the chassis plate...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/series-i-land-rover-enthusiasts-section/94888d1433753343-restoration-wombat-image.jpg

This fits in nicely with the information Lotz-A-Landies provided, complete with snippet from the sales records.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Which fits in with Sitec's other new find

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/series-i-land-rover-enthusiasts-section/94890d1433753498-restoration-wombat-image.jpg

So. We now know who she is and who she was sold to.

[crackers]

That second number on the sales docket would be what? The engine number? If so, it appears to be 170600556. Does anyone know how to interpret this?

CalVIN imagines that this vehicle was sold with a diesel engine, but although the 109 chassis was introduced in 1956, the diesel wasn't introduced till the next year. We do know it's currently got a 2 1/4 petrol motor which wasn't introduced for nearly another decade.

Ahhh, the fun of the chase.

[crackers]

That second number on the sales docket would be what? The engine number? If so, it appears to be 170600556. Does anyone know how to interpret this?

CalVIN imagines that this vehicle was sold with a diesel engine, but although the 109 chassis was introduced in 1956, the diesel wasn't introduced till the next year. We do know it's currently got a 2 1/4 petrol motor which wasn't introduced for nearly another decade.

Ahhh, the fun of the chase.

Actually, I'll amend that. I've just run CalVIN again and it's telling me that it's

Model: Land Rover, Series IIA
Body type: Basic
Wheel base: 109in
Engine: diesel
Model years: 1962-1971
Destination: Export, right-hand drive (RHD)



HELP:BigCry:

[JDNSW]

.....We do know it's currently got a 2 1/4 petrol motor which wasn't introduced for nearly another decade.

Ahhh, the fun of the chase.

Sorry, the 2.25 petrol engine was introduced with the Series 2 in 1958 - hardly "nearly another decade".

John

[crackers]

Sorry, the 2.25 petrol engine was introduced with the Series 2 in 1958 - hardly "nearly another decade".

John

I thought it was the 2l with the first Series 2 and the 2.25 didn't come later. Ah well, I've learned not to trust my reading of things and there are so many versions of Land Rover 'history' I'm not surprised I'm getting things wrong.

[Landy Smurf]

There was only a few hundred series 2 with 2l motor.

[crackers]

Fair enough. With Wombat having the internal tank filler (ie, under the seat) rather than in the side of the body, it has to be a Series 1 doesn't it?

[crackers]

That second number on the sales docket would be what? The engine number? If so, it appears to be 170600556. Does anyone know how to interpret this?



Actually, I'll amend that. I've just run CalVIN again and it's telling me that it's

Model: Land Rover, Series IIA
Body type: Basic
Wheel base: 109in
Engine: diesel
Model years: 1962-1971
Destination: Export, right-hand drive (RHD)

Nope, I was wrong. That second number, when fed into CalVIN gives the following:
1 Type: Land Rover
7 Model: Land Rover Series I
0 Destination: Right-hand drive (RHD), home market
6 Service period: Late 1955 for service
00556 Serial number

noteThis VIN is also applicable to a 1956 Series II 109 Station Wagon

Which would appear to be a lot closer to the real answer. I'm still not sure what's going on but am I right is guessing that the second number is the one stamped on the chassis (which I haven't seen yet, I'm taking it off the sales record) and the one on the plate is something different again?

[JDNSW]

There was only a few hundred series 2 with 2l motor.

And only short wheelbase.

John

[JDNSW]

Fair enough. With Wombat having the internal tank filler (ie, under the seat) rather than in the side of the body, it has to be a Series 1 doesn't it?

This is not an absolute criterion, as Series 2a "Airportable" military Landrovers (not used in AMF and hence very rare here) also did. However, it is one way of identifying Series One. Others include brake and clutch pedals through the floor, flat sides with no narrowing above the waist, semifloating as opposed to full floating rear axle, door tops bigger than door bottoms, doors lift off, front mudguards lower, tailgate locks with wedges on chains, tub separate from cab on lwb. There is no doubt from the pictures that it is a Series 1.

Published ranges of chassis numbers, including CalVIN are not always accurate. The extract from the Grenville Motors book plus the painted name has clearly identified the vehicle and confirms that the stamped number on the plate is the correct chassis number and should match the one on the chassis. (Since these plates are only screwed on, there is always the possibility that this has been moved between vehicles.)

John

[Sitec]

Panic not Crackers.. You 100% have a Series 1. One piece rear axle shafts, flat sides, pedals thru floor, separate rear tub, pins on chains for latching the rear tailgate etc. I will scratch around and locate an engine number this avo, whilst sitting it on inflated rubber! I've dug out a few spare diffs as well.

[Sitec]

Well, he is who he says he is. Here's the matching number at the other end.

[Sitec]

Anyhow, he's sat on inflated tyres, on the trailer and ready to head south first thing tomorrow morning! :)

[crackers]

Anyhow, he's sat on inflated tyres, on the trailer and ready to head south first thing tomorrow morning! :)

Beaudy. Thanks mate. :banana::banana:

[crackers]

Well, he is who he says he is. Here's the matching number at the other end.

And that rules out any chance of the old compliance plate switcheroo... not that I had any suspicions, it's just nice to have numbers match up.

Cor, inflated tyres, she's being spoilt.

Might be an idea to carefully put those pushrods in the car, be a pity to get here and find there are only seven left :eek:

Ooooooo, it's getting exciting now :arms:

[Sitec]

Push rods and a few other bits in the cab. Found one of the rear tub cappings in the rear too! It'll b good to give the 101 a leg stretch. PM or txt me your address when suits. :)

[crackers]

txt sent.
Dog warned :cool:

[crackers]

She's home (thanks Sitec :BigThumb:)

And my first thoughts are along the lines of "What the flippin' heck have I done?" :eek:

Still, she rolls easily, steers easily, so some bits work. The brake pedal is solid as is the clutch (as in no movement at all). The back end body is where a lot of work is going to be happening. Underneath is just old Landy with no visible rot.

I've included a photo of the engine number - is anyone able to interpret that?

I have to belt off and watch my son play football (soccer) in a bit so I'm not going to start anything, but here are some photos, certainly the last ones you'll see of her in this condition.

[Dinty]

I have often said to self, 'why the b****y hell did you buy this' anyway some daze will be diamonds others stones, cheers Dennis

[Dark61]

253xxxxxx Series IIA petrol 2286cc 7:1 CR


I could only find this Mate - but you know you have a later engine anyway.


I had a good look in all the books I have + on the net and I couldn't find a comprehensive database on engine numbers anywhere.


I'd be interested to know if you do find one - also, what the remaining xxxxxx's mean.


Nice looking vehicle. Have you fired it up yet?
cheers,
D

[crackers]

Thanks D. That fits with what I've found too and Sitec reckons that the shape of the engine confirms it's a 2.25. In the 'Wanted' forum, someone is looking for pushrods and wanted to know how to tell if you've got a 7:1 or an 8:1 head. That thread links you to a site that talks about how to tell the difference based on a raised section under a head bolt near the carby - mine doesn't have that which confirms it's an early type 7:1 compression ration head.

Having cleaned off some dust, I was able to tell that she's got a Zenith carby.

The engine has been partially disassembled (down to the head gasket) so there's no danger of it starting soon. Sitec's had a good look and reckons it's worth trying to get it going which suits me - although I'll eventually pull the engine down and give it a full bare block up rebuild, it'd be nice to get on the road first so I've got time to save the money for the rebuild. I'll be keeping this engine because although it's not the original, it's a part of its history and I'll be trying to preserve that history as much as practical (my excuse for not doing a concours restoration :angel:).

[crackers]

Cleaned out the tray. Funny what you find in these old farm trucks (started a new thread under 'Series Land Rovers") amongst the dirt, drink cans, leaves and junk.

The back of the house now has five Land Rover wheels parked against it. ;)

She's really bashed around at the back with quite a collection of home repairs. Dunno how repairable these aluminium panels are but that's a worry for another time. She's now a lot cleaner and I swear the back end now sits about six inches higher.

And the obligatory photo with the dog disapproving of the lousy job I did.

[Sitec]

Ah, that's it now.. By washing your new purchase, that means work has started, and therefore you've stepped onto that slippery downhill slope of Land Rover craziness!! No turning back now, not even if you try! ;)

[Dark61]

you sound like you got it all sorted. I've just had the 109 off the road for a month chasing down a host of irritating electrical problems. Rather than snip away at it I thought I'd make a list and not drive it again until it had been taken care of properly. I just want to drive it for a bit now its nice and legal before I start looking at the engine / transmission / gears etc etc . Let us know when yours comes back to life. Nothing better than hearing one fire up after a long break. Nice picture of the Mutt.
cheers,
D
p.s talking of things you find - when I took the lower fascia off a live bullet tumbled out!

[Cobber]

Not a bad starting point - well done! :BigThumb:

[crackers]

Thanks. Pity the overall project won't be as straight forward as cleaning out the tray. Still, one step at a time, fix each cockup then move to the next.

Incidentally, wooden boat builders have a 'moaning chair' in their sheds, where they sit to moan about their latest screwup. Do the sheds of Landy restorers boast a similar feature?

[digger]

Which leads me to the next pic.. This is written on the front right wing of Wombat. The name and location ties in with the pic that was posted of the hand written sales diary which has the name Ginn.. There's some history to be found here me thinks.....

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/104296639/11482225'searchTerm="w j ginn cup"#pstart11482225


http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=%22w.j.ginn%22&l-state=ACT&l-decade=196&s=20

9th October 1962 there is reference in the Canberra Times page 6 to the initial awarding of the "W J GINN cup" a polo cross trophy, (canberra riding club?) also found references to w j ginn of braddon goulburn winning wool awards
in 50,51 and 52. sounds like a grazier who obviously had something to do with polo... will be interesting to see what turns up.

[Dark61]

Thanks. Pity the overall project won't be as straight forward as cleaning out the tray. Still, one step at a time, fix each cockup then move to the next.

Incidentally, wooden boat builders have a 'moaning chair' in their sheds, where they sit to moan about their latest screwup. Do the sheds of Landy restorers boast a similar feature?


yep - mines leather and is well worn! I might start a "show us yer moaning chair" thread.
cheers,
D

[wrinklearthur]

----- Incidentally, wooden boat builders have a 'moaning chair' in their sheds, where they sit to moan about their latest screwup. Do the sheds of Landy restorers boast a similar feature?

Sure do, I have one of those five caster gas adjusting office chairs with one caster missing and that's where I sit rocking back and forward to fume about the latest mishap that I alone can do. :mad:
.

[crackers]

Where do you store the body panels?

I've got a double shed to work in, but all the sides have shelves or benches or stuff stored. Plenty of room to work in the middle of the shed, but not if I fill it with body panels. So how and where do you store them once you've pulled them off the chassis?

Once the rolling chassis is in the shed, it's not coming out very often because the approach is up a sharp little slope over grass so I really do need all the room I can get in the shed.

[Dark61]

there's the rub! So many body panels , so little space. I mused on this once , whether to spend money on a bigger shed - or buy another Landy. A member suggested I do one or the other , and the other would follow! I suppose you could leave them outside on a pallet covered with a tarp.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

I rent so another shed isn't going to work, nor is some sort of lean to.

I guess, over a hard surface (ie, not grass/mud), off the ground with a tarp covering them.

Or I could kick my son's Subaru out of its parking spot. :twisted:

[gromit]

The panels have already been out in the open for how many years ?

Stack them somewhere outside and make sure water can't gather in them.


Colin

[Dark61]

I rent so another shed isn't going to work, nor is some sort of lean to.

I guess, over a hard surface (ie, not grass/mud), off the ground with a tarp covering them.

Or I could kick my son's Subaru out of its parking spot. :twisted:


The Subaru's days are numbered!
cheers,
D

[crackers]

She's in the shed. Man, was that an effort - the approach was up hill (not steep but noticeable), over long grass (flamin' lawn mower broke down didn't it), muddy ground (thanks to a lot of rain recently), with a steepish last metre into the shed. The lad put on his soccer boots for traction... and left a series of deep divots. My daughter trotted along beside keeping a brick behind the front wheel so we didn't have the brute come down on us again. The profanity was kept just below blister the paint level and she kept drifting across into the door - as the cabin went in, it missed the door frame by about an inch and that only because she tilted the other way at the last minute.

But she's in. :ehigh5:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=95370&d=1434762174
Ain't she cute

Time for a coffee and a brag on the forum.

I'm running out of excuses. :eek:

[Lionelgee]

She's in the shed. Man, was that an effort


Hello Crackers,

I noticed in the photograph that the four-legged supervisor was walking away after conducting an inspection. What sort of feedback did you get for your efforts?

Kind Regards
Lionel

[crackers]

Hello Crackers,

I noticed in the photograph that the four-legged supervisor was walking away after conducting an inspection. What sort of feedback did you get for your efforts?

Kind Regards
Lionel

Atilla the Mong give positive feedback? :eek:

He can't understand why I'm not taking him for drives in the bush.

[Dark61]

I enjoyed the description of how you got it safely tucked away. It reminded me of when I had to get the series 1 with no brakes from the front of the house down a steep slope - across a creek - up a steep slope , into some old stables which were really tight - I'm not sure what I expected as I hadn't driven one before but had the Mrs trotting alongside with a lump of old garden sleeper just in case it got away from me. The reality was of course I just drove it all the way in 1st low ratio and didn't need any brakes! In the excitement I forgot to tell the Mrs. She needed the exercise though.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

As a sports car buff, I'm sort of ambivalent towards brakes, they only slow you down :twisted:

[crackers]

The kids and I got into the cab today.

It was a bit dirty
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=95423&stc=1&d=1434878548

But once again, we found some interesting stuff
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=95424&stc=1&d=1434878548
including a mechanical fuel pump (did the Landy use one?), various water pipes, thermostat housing, crank handle, bits and pieces of light fittings, and... well... stuff.

My little princess was disappointed we didn't find any dead animals or old bullets.

Any idea what these spring clips in the back wall of the cab are for? One would image they've something to do with the seats or to hold the crank handle.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=95425&stc=1&d=1434878548

We decided (well, I decided and told the kids) to dismantle the cab from the top down. We were doing well until we got to the bolts along the back of the cab at the top of the cab wall. Rusted solid. I could undo the bolts that run along base of the cab wall, these are already half undone (and no doubt rusted solid too) and if you try to lift the roof, the roof/back assembly lifts there, but seeing I'll need to get the two apart eventually, it seems easier to do it now and have flat panels to store. Anyways, I gave up before we broke something.
It's now someone tells me the roof and cabin back don't come apart.

Why did Land Rover place the bolts with the head at the bottom and the nut at the top? Surely it would have been easier to drop the bolts through the holes and add the nut from the bottom.

[crackers]

And seeing I had to upload this photo for another post, here's the lad working on the rear trim in the cabin.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Don 130]

This (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/penetrating-oil-showdown.350800/) may help with a penetrating solution for your frozen on nuts.
Don.

[JDNSW]

Clips are for crank handle and jack handle. Bolts at the back of the cab were probably put nut upwards for neatness - the turnup of the roof frame hides them.

John

[crackers]

This (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/penetrating-oil-showdown.350800/) may help with a penetrating solution for your frozen on nuts.
Don.

Thanks for that Don. I'm certainly going to give it a go, lots of lots of dark brown nuts on this Landy. Wonder what you use to apply it. A small pump action oil can?

[crackers]

Clips are for crank handle and jack handle. Bolts at the back of the cab were probably put nut upwards for neatness - the turnup of the roof frame hides them.

John

Thanks. I was pretty sure one set was for the crank but there seemed to be too many clips. Jack handle!

[JDNSW]

Two piece jack handle, long bar and cross handle.

John

[wrinklearthur]

Thanks for that Don. I'm certainly going to give it a go, lots of lots of dark brown nuts on this Landy. Wonder what you use to apply it. A small pump action oil can?

I had read about the 50% ATF - 50% Acetone mix before but after reading that test I'm going out at first light to give the mix a try.


They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.

*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*

[​IMG] None ..................... 516 pounds
[​IMG] WD-40 .................. 238 pounds
[​IMG] PB Blaster ............. 214 pounds
[​IMG] Liquid Wrench ..... 127 pounds
[​IMG] Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds
[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] ATF-Acetone mix....53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch, and we all now use it with equally good results.

I might try a empty hand sprayer, the type that shower bay cleaner comes in. I'm not sure if the plastic would like the acetone though.

[mick88]

Where do you get Acetone?
Is "Nail Polish Remover" sufficient to do the job.


Cheers, Mick.

[Dark61]

I might try a empty hand sprayer, the type that shower bay cleaner comes in. I'm not sure if the plastic would like the acetone though.







I always save the wd40 in the bottom of the can after the pressure runs out and deposit the remains in a metal plant sprayer thing you can get from kmart for a couple of bucks. Its got an adjustable nozzle so you can get the accuracy fairly good.
cheers,
D

[wrinklearthur]

Where do you get Acetone?

1 litre cans in Hardware store's paints section.


Is "Nail Polish Remover" sufficient to do the job.

Don't let mother know!! :twisted:
.

[crackers]

Well, I've given the brew a try and to be honest, I can't say it made any difference. Mind you, the nut in question is a particularly nasty one and, being on a loose bolt and now down near the end of it (where I got it using WD40), you can't get anything to sit still while you work the spanners. I've left it soaking, and a few others, but can see I'm going to go through a lot of Dremel cutting wheels before this job is over (you won't get a hacksaw in there).

As for the brew itself, I do have to wonder how well the two mix. I used an old Singer sewing machine oil bottle, half filled it with ATF, topped up with acetone, shook it, up ended it, did anything I could think of and the top of the fluid is just a very light pink which makes me wonder if the bulk of the ATF isn't sulking on the bottom. Why would you imagine acetone would dissolve ATF anyway? It's not as though it's a recognised solvent for hydrocarbons.

Just my thoughts but apart from some skin missing and a bolt head that is now a little rounded (wasn't before tonight), I'm no further down the track.

[Dark61]

I'm not sure what kind of access you have to the bolt but I sweated for hours back in the summer trying to remove a stuck bolt that had sheared off the stud fixing the door top to the door bottom. I used copious amounts of wd40 + the blow torch - In the end I drilled it out. It took seconds even with one of those cheapo Chinese bits!
cheers,
D

[crackers]

Not a stud fixed place unfortunately, this is a quarter inch bolt through two thin pieces of aluminium and now that I've got the nut up near the end of the thread, where it has stubbornly chosen to stay, it just rattles around in the hole. That's okay though, I don't mind cutting the thing off and as I suggested, I do have a Dremel with which you can dismantle American aircraft carriers.

[digger]

And seeing I had to upload this photo for another post, here's the lad working on the rear trim in the cabin.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=95426&stc=1&d=1434879822

I may be wrong but that lining I believe is part of the "luxury" optional interior I was told some dealers offered for the landy.. Keep it close to make a stencil/template from it... I have an early top that has a roof lining only in the top rear of the cab but includes a light (mounted to board and so self supporting.)

I havent seen any other trim inside the cabin at all before. :)

[JDNSW]

Deluxe trim was, from memory, standard on early 107s, and optional on other cab Series 1s. But trim was also often added by dealers, and sometimes owners (I did to my Series 1 in 1963), and some of these efforts are good enough to be confused with factory trim.

John

[Sitec]

3/8 sockets are your friend with stubborn nuts/bolts, as they help support the offender. You'll be struggling with just spanners.. :)

[JDNSW]

And remember the sizes will be Whitworth!

John

[crackers]

3/8 sockets are your friend with stubborn nuts/bolts, as they help support the offender. You'll be struggling with just spanners.. :)

If only it were that simple, where these bolts are, I can't get a socket on either side thanks to surrounding bits of Land Rover. Still, there'll be others.

[crackers]

And remember the sizes will be Whitworth!

John

I know, I've got SAE and Metric :mad:
The metric's sort of fit sometimes.

I've got some Whitworth spanners amongst my collection of odd tools which is nice... and I'm hoping Dad has some more. I've also got a set of odd sockets somewhere which I'm pretty sure haven't fit much in any of my previous cars so maybe that's Whitworth.

Besides, when was buying tools something to fear :twisted:

[crackers]

I went digging through my old tool box and found a set of Whitworth sockets :banana:
Sadly, they don't have a ratchet, just a bent handle that looks like a 3/8 allen key, so I'll have to get an allen key socket of that size for my normal socket set.
Anyways, that allowed me to get a good grip on one end of things and spanners and tools of nut destruction did the other end.

Note, that homebrew penetrating oil seems to have worked because although it was still hard work, all three bolts, which had been more or less solid a couple of days ago, came off with only minimal swearing though great effort.

Crackers Top Tip: Do not let family, doctors or other wowsers talk you into losing weight. You need that bulk as it allows you to put more force onto the end of a spanner attempting to drive a recalcitrant bolt. :cool:

Once the bolts were out, a rubber strip held the roof to the back of the cab - this needed to be removed and having hardened and stuck to things, it got torn off (pieces saved so I know how much more to get). Essentially, it's E shaped with the central bar going between the roof and the back, with the bars either end clipping over the panel.

From there, the roof simply lifted off and is temporarily living in the ute tray.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=95524&stc=1&d=1435131570

Four nuts later, the back of the cabin was ready to lift off. Again, that homebrew penetrating oil seemed to do the trick because there was a lot of that ornamental brown stuff working to combine nuts and bolts into one unit.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=95525&stc=1&d=1435131570

Having succeeded with stuff, I escaped before I broke something. :D

[crackers]

Circumstances have kept me out of the shed (where have I heard that before? :angel:) but I was able to get in there today.

The plan was to get the ute tray off, but some silly bugga had stored a cabin roof and cabin back in it. So, after some creative thought, a modicum of intemperate language and selective application of a rubber mallet (oooooooo, donca love rubber :eek:), the two cabin panels are now stored on 4x2s in the ceiling of the shed. :D

Then it was time to pull the ute tray. I climbed underneath. I saw nuts... so I squirted them with WD40. There were more at the back of the tray, so I got to them too... and on the driver's side, they're going to be a real &^%$ because the cross-member is bent and hiding the nuts themselves.

At the front though, while I can see the bolt heads under the vehicle, the nuts are in the gap between the tray and seat box - this is assuming I'm looking at the right bolts of course, I'm about to fire up my pdf manual and see if I can work out what I need to undo.

BUT, am I right in assuming that I have to remove the seat box before I can remove the tray? :confused:

[harry]

Only because they are screwed together .....

[crackers]

Well, the manual was no use. It just tells you to remove all the bolts with no indication of where they are.

Anyone who's pulled a Series 1 apart, do you have to get the seat box off before you can pull the rear tub?

[crackers]

How do you undo these brutes when the nut underneath is rusted?

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=95998&stc=1&d=1436065544

As you can see with this one, I've already started to mangle the screw driver slot and, of course, there are lots of them. This one is on the seat box but I'll be facing the main body work at some point where I'll face the same issue. This is going to be a good test of that homebrew penetrating oil.

Cold chisel time?

[Sitec]

Grinder, new disk, and grind the head off. Use the washer as the stopping point. Remember to make sure petrol tank is fuel less, and all glass is covered or removed from line of sparks. Oh, and have a bucket of water to hand for those 'just in case' moments!

[crackers]

Thanks. Didn't think of grinding the head off and seeing I'm not wedded to keeping the original fasteners... (it would be nice though).

I am going to look at getting new batteries for my cordless drill - it's a Bosch 14.4V which has done sterling work building boats (got so much epoxy on it it's waterproof :eek: ). The thought is that using the ratchet, I may be able to bang a few loose but for the really stubborn ones, the grinder makes sense.

[Dark61]

providing its not sitting in anything flimsy and you have access , I've had some success with whacking the nut off with a hammer and a cold chisel.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

providing its not sitting in anything flimsy and you have access , I've had some success with whacking the nut off with a hammer and a cold chisel.
cheers,
D

That's what I was considering but as you say, 'flimsy' and 'access'.
Mmmmmm, tools of Landy destruction. :twisted:

One thing about it, if the nut and bolt I circled in the photo above comes free next time I try, we'll know that homebrew penetrating oil works, it's been flooded with it.

I was out all afternoon so couldn't get back to her. However, I have this week off :D

[wrinklearthur]

Grinder, new disk, and grind the head off. Use the washer as the stopping point. Remember to make sure petrol tank is fuel less:eek:, and all glass is covered or removed from line of sparks. Oh, and have a bucket of water to hand for those 'just in case' moments!

Um! A full fuel tank is way safer to work along side then one that is empty and has only fumes in it.
The empty fuel container has been responsible for more fatalities as they have a explosive mix of fuel and air.
.

[Sitec]

Um! A full fuel tank is way safer to work along side then one that is empty and has only fumes in it.
The empty fuel container has been responsible for more fatalities as they have a explosive mix of fuel and air.
.

Granted, but I think this vehicle has been idle for many a yr, so would prob be vapourless too. Most that I've had to work near have been empty, and then had an airline poked in the filler and blown for a while to remove the 'boom' factor! It was nice removing the petrol and filling the 101's tanks with diesel when the Cummins engine went in. Was happy to then sit the batteries in the cradle next to the tank knowing it was diesel next to it not petrol! :)

[crackers]

Thanks for the warnings. I do agree with Sitec that it's probably not an issue in THIS CASE. Generally speaking though, you certainly can't be too careful.

I've priced battery packs for my cordless drill - hell, if it wasn't a Bosch with a long proven track record of being a heavy worker, I wouldn't be bothering. However, I do know of a mob that rebuild battery packs at good prices so, provided they are still in operation, I'll have a chat with them in the next few days.

I was at Mum and Dad's today. Dad found a screwdriver in his collection of 'where the **** did I get that' tools - he thinks he picked it up in a roadside stop in Northern WA but anyways, it has a square shank. My Whitworth socket fits nicely on the nut and is help in place by a lip in the body - with the handle fitted to the socket and caught against the body work to stop it turning, I reckon I can apply my weight to the screwdriver and turn it with a spanner. If that doesn't get the bolt free, it's angle grinder time.

I'd be out there working on it now but it's bloody cold, the cat's comfy on my lap, the bottle of red is lowering with satisfying regularity and the Tour de France broadcast has just started. :angel:

[wrinklearthur]

Thanks for the warnings. I do agree with Sitec that it's probably not an issue in THIS CASE. Generally speaking though, you certainly can't be too careful.

I've priced battery packs for my cordless drill - hell, if it wasn't a Bosch with a long proven track record of being a heavy worker, I wouldn't be bothering. However, I do know of a mob that rebuild battery packs at good prices so, provided they are still in operation, I'll have a chat with them in the next few days.

I was at Mum and Dad's today. Dad found a screwdriver in his collection of 'where the **** did I get that' tools - he thinks he picked it up in a roadside stop in Northern WA but anyways, it has a square shank. My Whitworth socket fits nicely on the nut and is help in place by a lip in the body - with the handle fitted to the socket and caught against the body work to stop it turning, I reckon I can apply my weight to the screwdriver and turn it with a spanner. If that doesn't get the bolt free, it's angle grinder time.

I'd be out there working on it now but it's bloody cold, the cat's comfy on my lap, the bottle of red is lowering with satisfying regularity and the Tour de France broadcast has just started. :angel:

And there's all tomorrow not touched yet

[crackers]

And there's all tomorrow not touched yet

Yup, all this week on holidays. Sounds like a perfect opportunity to deconstruct a Landy :D

[crackers]

Much destruction :twisted:
Though at the rate I'm knocking my hands around, I'm going to run out of 'me' before I run out of Land Rover :eek:

Got the cabin floors and the seat box out her today.
Note to others attempting this lunacy - you have to get the cabin floors up first and no, this isn't immediately obvious until afterwards. Nor is it necessarily possible as you'll read later.

Quite a few fasteners were missing. Those remaining were rusted solid and quite a few of them are obviously replacements as they aren't Whitworth.

Would I be correct in thinking that the bolts holding the cabin floor down are supposed to be those domed bolts with screwdriver slots?

Anyways, most bolts had to be removed using the angle grinder. Sadly, my floor is very uneven (ie, mangled) and so the body work copped a fair bit of grinding as well. Many of the holes in the flooring were already mangled as though larger bolts had been rammed through them (rather than being neatly drilled), further supporting my view that most if not all of these fasteners are non-original. I also worked with a cold chisel and was amused to watch mountains of ancient dirt grow under the vehicle with every blow of the hammer.

The seat box was a right pig to remove because I could not remove one screw connecting it to the driver's side floor panel - it had a very small, domed head and pulled too far into the metal to grind off. This exercise proved interesting because the hand brake lever goes through the seat box and I had to bend and push and twist and manipulate and swear to try to spring the flooring up past the dashboard and seat box out over that hand brake lever. Once out, it took two minutes with the angle grinder to get that ruddy screw off from the underside (couldn't get at it when in the vehicle).

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=96066&stc=1&d=1436177810
The liberated seat box with its best friend :cool:

What you can't see is the small tear in the top of the seat box which is disappointing but I don't think it's going to cause me a problem - you may remember that comment and rub my nose in it later on.

There were NO fasteners holding the front of the gearbox cover in place so that was easy to lift out. :D

So, a productive and interesting afternoon during which things were achieved.:cool:

[crackers]

This post follows on from the previous one but asks questions about the next step.

This is how she looked at the close of business today.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=96065&stc=1&d=1436177549

My next job is to get the base of the rear cabin wall out. There appear to be three bolts on one side and three on the other. Unfortunately, access to the nuts on the driver's side is blocked by the fuel tank so I'm guessing, that has to come out next.

Any thoughts on the best way to get the tank out?

[harry]

the little pommy bastards in the design division hated the workers, so they made things really hard to get at.
persist.
you will get there.
have a nice cup of tea and go back and look at it later.:D






















:cool:

[Dark61]

yep - go away and do something else for a bit and then come back and you'll have probably worked it out subconsciously.


I refitted my floor panels (series 3 ) this arvo - every bolt /screw looked different - so I'm just about to go look at the parts manual to see if I can work out what should be there. I have seen a "floor panel kit" on the net but I'm not sure if this uses the original fixings. Someone must have taken a tank out before ( I haven't ) but there should be something in the search bar bottom left.
cheers,
D


p.s I had trouble finding pics on the series one stuff - if you have the parts catalogue - its on p199, but it only gives part no.s not pics - you may be able totrack down a photo from the part no. - or more than likely , someone will know on the forum. The series 3 floor panels seem to have 3 to four different fixings depending on where the screw/bolt is going!

[JDNSW]

Floor fastenings. Original fastenings should be domed screws* fitting into spring steel fasteners* clipped to the seat box/tunnel etc, except for the front edge of the flat bits each side where there are 1/4" BSF bolts into captive square nuts in tin boxes spot welded to the other side of the bulkhead, and the outer edge where there are 1/4" BSF bolts and nuts. All fasteners have wide flat washers, and all bolts have spring washers. All fasteners and washers are Sherardised (a finish that is now virtually unobtainable), and BSF was changed to UNF in Series 2 production.

* These are readily available from Landrover specialists, although not with the original finish.

John

[crackers]

Thanks John. That fits with what I can see on mine, just not what I have. Guess I'll be looking for one of those fasteners packs you see advertised from time to time... but that's for a time far far away.

[gromit]

The floor screws were domed head screws with an Acme thread, they screw into spire nuts, as John mentioned, that clip over seatbox edge etc.

On a Series I the removable panels under the seats were a similar screw but with a hex head.

The screws & spire nuts are available from all the local supplies but as John mentioned not the original finish, now zinc passivated.


Colin

[crackers]

Thanks Colin.

Got stuck into her late this afternoon and managed to get the windscreen off. Sure, no big deal eh? Just undo two big nuts, two wing nuts and lift it off.

HAH!

The nuts had been soaking with penetrating oil for a few days now. I had a large spanner on one side, jammed against the bodywork. My Whitworth socket on the other side with it's 7/16" allen key bar - that wasn't long enough though so I used an 18" extension. With the full weight of my considerable bulk, I just managed to get the long lever (now nearly 2 ft long) to turn... with horrendous shrieks. I applied so much force that I twisted the allen key bar. Eventually though, both nuts capitulated and the windscreen is safely stored in the roof of the shed.

And I'm knackered. Time for dinner.

[NQSeriesRover]

Hi Guys,

you can get the correct fasteners in the proper sheradized finish from a mob call LR Fasteners in the UK. No always cheap but if you are running short and want the correct stuff...plus they really know whats what is you are struggling to find the right bits.

cheers,

matt

[Sitec]

Great work Crackers. Glad to see you're getting into it. Gloves (tho clumsy) are money well spent at his stage..

Re floor fixings etc, dependant on how concourse you want to go, I'd be thinking of stainless replacements. The two floor panels can be used as templates for new 3mm alli replacements. Once painted, only the really sharp eye would tell the difference. With the tank, if its anything like the 2's and 3's, there are 3 bolts at the front and three at the rear.. At least with the Series 1, you don't have the filler neck hose dramas!! :)

[crackers]

I got my daughter started on clearing away the dirt around the tank while I wrestled with the windscreen. Dead set, the dirt was deep enough to grow River Gums and I'll need to sweep out under the vehicle, not to avoid lying in dirt but to provide enough clearance for me to get under the chassis :eek: I'm going to have to hire a trailer to haul all the dirt away and I'm sure Wombat is already sitting higher on her springs just from what we've knocked off her.

The plan is to tackle the tank tomorrow. The manual talks about undoing the bolts from underneath and that makes sense looking at it. It does talk about draining the tank first but I'm going to try to avoid that on the grounds that anything I can keep in the tank will slow the inevitable rust you'll get if you empty it - I doubt there's anything combustible in there now though I won't be lighting any matches nearby to find out.

[crackers]

Regarding stainless fasteners, aren't there issues with having stainless in contact with aluminium? Maybe galv (or similar) washers are the go.

[wrinklearthur]

Cadmium plated fittings seem to give the less grief IMHO. Finding Cadmium plated nuts and bolt with BSF threads --- well!!
.

[Dark61]

a lot of people go for the stainless steel stuff but I just go for the normal stuff with a bit of copper slip grease on the thread. We all ought to get together in 10 years time and see which has done best.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

I don't know why you lot keep talking about all these weird metals and coatings, I mean, I'm working on this beast and I can assure you, all fasteners are made out of RUST :mad:

Much fun and games had today and yesterday.

Windscreen removed... to great shrieks of agonised metal as the rusted nuts fought their removal with all the determination of a Kamikaze.

Tank removed. No dramas here except that someone had clouted something in the past and a bit of bodywork had been bent back trapping one corner of the tank - he was probably lucky he didn't tear a hole in the tank. Tank looks good, doesn't feel like there's much in there except maybe some horrid jelly (no sloshing but weight). I'm not even going to go there until I have to.

We got the ute tray off. I had initially thought that I had to get the cabin out of the way first but as it happens, you don't. At the front, there are cut outs in the chassis that allow you to get your hand and a spanner there - you don't even have to be a spider monkey. In my case though, someone had dropped a piece of 4x2 across between the cabin and the tray and this was preventing me from getting at the nuts and, as it happened, I needed the top off the cabin to be able to get that out. Bloody farm truck. The rear bolts were an exercise in access and surprisingly, the easiest ones were on the driver's side where someone had bent the rear crossmember, obscuring access to the nuts but tearing the ally body so I could still get a spanner in there.

Rear of cabin removed fully. All went well until the very last nut which was a pleasant change from the first one being the prize sod.

So I now have remarkably less Land Rover than I started with :D

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=96209&stc=1&d=1436510770

[crackers]

What's the next step in dismantling? Getting the mudguards off?

I'm looking at getting the bodywork off, then rolling her outside and trying to hit her with a high pressure spray for cleanup (if I can get one). Question is, do I pull the engine and gearbox before that or after?

[JDNSW]

What's the next step in dismantling? Getting the mudguards off?

I'm looking at getting the bodywork off, then rolling her outside and trying to hit her with a high pressure spray for cleanup (if I can get one). Question is, do I pull the engine and gearbox before that or after?

I would be inclined to leave them in, cover the openigs, and pressure wash everything. Then remove the engine and gearbox, and rewash the chassis to get the bits that were hard to get with the engine and gearbox in. (The idea being that the chassis makes a good stand for moving the engine and gearbox out to clean up.)

John

[Sitec]

I would be inclined to leave them in, cover the openigs, and pressure wash everything. Then remove the engine and gearbox, and rewash the chassis to get the bits that were hard to get with the engine and gearbox in. (The idea being that the chassis makes a good stand for moving the engine and gearbox out to clean up.)

John

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[crackers]

Sealing my motor is going to be fun because the head is currently loose and I have neither a head gasket or the head nuts. Still, I should be able to do something... and then just be very careful with how I wave the squirter gadget around.

[Sitec]

Lift the head off, steam clean it, allow it to dry and then coat it with a light film of CRC.. With the head off, wipe off the block face and tape over it. Job done. :)

[crackers]

Sounds like a plan... except I don't have a steam cleaner.

Actually, what'd be more useful for this project (as a purchase... assuming I can afford either), a steam cleaner or a pressure cleaner? Obviously, if I got a steam cleaner, I'd need to use the garden hose to clean out inside the chassis members that are open.

[crackers]

Got the radiator and grill off today :D

No, it wasn't as easy as you might think. All of the nuts and bolts were rusted solid. Many (most?) of them sheered off which was nice when it happened early but an unfortunate percentage slowly worked the nut to the end of the bolt before jamming and then snapping off. :mad:

Then there were the three bolts under the wheel arches that you need to be built like a chimpanzee to reach, not like a rotund old phart. Fortunately, after the first one (why is it always the first one that makes life hard?), they all snapped off early... apart from the last one that required gentle application of the angle grinder.. and a cold chisel. :censored:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=96314&stc=1&d=1436689294

Now I have to get off the mudguards. Simply removing the grill started the procedure, but they are rather firmly attached to the firewall. Some of the bolts I can't even get at and they are all thickly coated in rust. Oh joy. Next weekend can't come quickly enough.

[Dark61]

Sounds like a plan... except I don't have a steam cleaner.

Actually, what'd be more useful for this project (as a purchase... assuming I can afford either), a steam cleaner or a pressure cleaner? Obviously, if I got a steam cleaner, I'd need to use the garden hose to clean out inside the chassis members that are open.



The prices for the hot pressure washers seem to be a bit stiff (to me anyway) - can you plumb a "normal" pressure washer up to a hot water tap ? I cant think - I'll have a look at my Karcher and see if it says anything - it wouldn't be anywhere as near as hot but any bit of heat would help I should think.
cheers,
D

[Dinty]

You need it to make STEAM, (not just hot water under pressure) that's why they are called steam cleaners, and for something that is going to be any good to you be prepared to part with $$$$$$, I used to have access to one a few years ago but sadly that was lost, keep an eye on the Govt surplus auctions as they do come along at times, cheers Dennis

[crackers]

That's what I thought. I've got a feeling it'll be the long, hard, manual method for me - I've got an angle grinder and a random orbital, I should be able to find the right fittings to do the job (those flappy 'sanding' heads spring to mind rather than sand paper). Still, that has yet to be investigated. There are a lot of panels that need cleaning as well as the chassis so anything bought will cop a lot of use, and that's just on the Landy.

[Dark61]

You need it to make STEAM, (not just hot water under pressure) that's why they are called steam cleaners, and for something that is going to be any good to you be prepared to part with $$$$$$, I used to have access to one a few years ago but sadly that was lost, keep an eye on the Govt surplus auctions as they do come along at times, cheers Dennis





Its so cold here at the moment even my teas making steam.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

Its so cold here at the moment even my teas making steam.
cheers,
D

Cold? It's so cold here, the back yard isn't underwater any more, it's under ice. The dog came inside, I patted him, and great chunks of frozen hair fell off. Last night, a possum tried to walk the phone line from the house to the street - his feet froze to the wire half way and it wasn't till lunchtime that he'd warmed up enough to get moving again. The bloke next door parked his van in the driveway and had to light a fire under it to thaw the engine oil before he could start it.

[Dark61]

Cold? It's so cold here, the back yard isn't underwater any more, it's under ice. The dog came inside, I patted him, and great chunks of frozen hair fell off. Last night, a possum tried to walk the phone line from the house to the street - his feet froze to the wire half way and it wasn't till lunchtime that he'd warmed up enough to get moving again. The bloke next door parked his van in the driveway and had to light a fire under it to thaw the engine oil before he could start it.



I had a neighbour do that to an old Diesel back in Pommyland in the early 80's - he used a "disposable" barbeque.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

Just discovered that Wombat has the Series II dashboard? This common for a 1956 Landy?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[wrinklearthur]

Just discovered that Wombat has the Series II dashboard? This common for a 1956 Landy?

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=96625&stc=1&d=1437289858

That dash looks correct for the year to me, why do you say it belongs to a series two ? just curious. :confused:

[JDNSW]

I don't have a Series 1 parts book, but as far aas I recall, there is no difference between the dashboard from 53-57 and Series 2, although there will be very minor evolutionary changes that do not happen with model changes.

John

[crackers]

Owner's manual for Series one shows 4 separate instruments.
Further digging in the workshop manual, shows the above arrangement.
Just the poms messing with my brain :(

[gromit]

Just discovered that Wombat has the Series II dashboard? This common for a 1956 Landy?



It's the same as my Series I instrument panel (OK mine has a couple of extra switches added).

Colin

[crackers]

Going from what John said, I reckon they changed them in about 1953.

[crackers]

It's friday night.
I have a set of brand new Whitworth sockets that fit my half inch drive.
This weekend will witness scenes of continuing Landy destruction :twisted:

I even have a workshop manual so I'll know what it is I'm breaking :o

If I'm lucky, I'll get to tear out electrics :eek:

Close enough to pulling the motor to need to worry about buying an engine stand (a sheet of cardboard on the floor is looking good at the moment :angel::angel:)

[crackers]

Just looking at my speedo shown above, how high a cliff do you need to get your Series 1 up to 70 mph?

[JDNSW]

Going from what John said, I reckon they changed them in about 1953.

Yes. There was a major change to the dash in 1953. Before that, separate gauges in a row, after that large speedo and combined cluster that remained essentially unchanged for almost twenty years to the end of Series 2a production, and the same speedo and cluster moved into a binnacle in front of the driver for Series 3.

There were a lot of other changes in 1953, most notably an increase in wheelbase from 80" to 86" - in fact, the 1953 change was probably as great as the change from Series 2a to Series 3, and certainly greater than the change from Series 2 to Series 2a. (And throughout Series production, there were progressive changes that cumulatively added up to bigger changes than the Series changes.)

And worth noting that Series 1 was not named as Series 1 until it was retrospectively named after the introduction of the Series 2 in 1958. Before that, they were just Landrovers, with either swb/lwb or the wheelbase specified if a distinction was needed.

John

[crackers]

Thanks for that John. Funny about how some people get all twisted about absolute originality with old vehicles when the reality tended to be more evolutionary. You've picked up on a major thing but you can bet there were lots of minor changes that just crept in over time. The fun is working out what to pay attention to and what to let slip - I'm not wedded to absolute originality but would like to be as true to history as practical.

I'm reminded of a photo of the CEO of the MG Car Company's personal MGB GT. It had V8 wheels fitted and had been the subject of some criticism by 'rivet counters' over the years. The reality was, his MGB was as delivered from the factory but they had a shortage of steel wheels at the time and the GTs were being supplied with V8 wheels. MG was guilty of many similar but less dramatic 'crimes against originality' over the decades and I'm betting Land Rover was no different - ya built the buggas out of what ya had in the bins at the time... and that's without considering design creep.

Aussie assembled vehicles would be even more susceptible to this because the CKD kits relied on a large local component (the whole point of the exercise) and goodness knows what was available at any given time.

I'm lucky. Wombat comes with a later motor so I claim any number of 'sensible' modifications to get me around this. I won't win any concours but then again, I'm not willing to polish under the mudguards so I won't win anyway (and yes, I HAVE seen this done and points awarded for it, my cynicism has a firm basis).

[crackers]

And worth noting that Series 1 was not named as Series 1 until it was retrospectively named after the introduction of the Series 2 in 1958. Before that, they were just Landrovers, with either swb/lwb or the wheelbase specified if a distinction was needed.

John

An important point actually. Wombat is NOT a Series 1, she's a 1956 Landy. More to the point, she's a 1956, 107" (measured). Sounds silly I know, but that's actually the correct designation and as you poke into manuals and parts lists etc, it becomes important. Something to bear in mind for me and others.

[crackers]

Got the mudguards off - all bar one bolt came out more or less easily, that one bolt took longer and cost more flesh than the rest combined.

Crackers top tip: On the day you buy your Landy, if not before, log onto evilBay and purchase a set of Whitworth sockets to fit your half inch drive. Mine cost only $55 from an Australian seller so I had them in three days. Being able to use the ratchet and various handles makes the job soooo much easier, especially with particularly recalcitrant bolts.

Also got the instrument panel out. Pages of notes. Stupid little tags on wires that I won't be able to read later, photos that might mean something in the future. The wiring loom is in a sad state so yes, I WILL be buying a new one, with additions such as trailer plug, indicators, maybe hazards.

Took it quietly, one step at a time. Signs of past 'fixes' but not too bad. Pity it's not properly connected up under the bonnet but that's a disaster for another day.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=96908&stc=1&d=1437898793

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=96909&stc=1&d=1437898793

The manifolds and exhaust came off last weekend. The exhaust manifold bolts are well rusted on and showing no signs of wanting to move. It'd be nice to just fire up the oxy torch and apply some heat but I don't have one so I'll have to come up with something else.

[crackers]

I was supposed to get stuck into things this arvo, but I haven't been well so all I did was stare with fear at the wiring under the bonnet and undo a couple of bits. :cool:

It's also too flamin' cold :mad:

[OnSafari]

Hi Crackers, I have just received my new wiring loom from Vintage Wring Harnesses (Vinwire) for my 997 Cooper, and it is very good, all wires labelled, correct braiding etc, good value. I now replace looms in my cars as the 500 - 600 dollar cost is good value given the age now on these cars. Also safer given frayed / brittle insulation, and more reliable as the copper wires do fatigue over time and can oxidize (green death).

Cheers

[crackers]

Thanks for that feedback. I wondered about labeling. I agree that replacing the old wiring needs little thought because, like I suspect you, I have suffered under old wiring. It's one variable you don't need.

[crackers]

Finished getting electrics and stuff out from under the bonnet. Was a little dismayed to discover that the wires to the rear run down inside the driver's side chassis rail. No biggie, I just tied a bit of light wire to the end of the loom, pulled it through and tied it off at each end - it's going to be a nuisance when cleaning and painting but it's only the chassis (doesn't need to be perfect) and at least I'll be able to get the new loom back down that rail.

The loom itself is a mess. Only a masochist (for real) would try to re-use it.

I priced high pressure cleaners. Karcher do one for about $150 - there's also one for $100 but I'd need to buy a $50 fitting that comes with the more expensive one. Not much by 'restore a vehicle standards' but I think the kids would prefer to eat this fortnight. However, I was digging around in the shed looking for (and failing to find) something else, when I came across a nozzle the screws onto a paint reservoir for my compressor - it basically replaces a cheap spray gun that came from somewhere (I've got a good one for painting). So with any luck, I've got a high pressure water gun. Sure, it'll only hold a couple of litres of water and will need refilling all the time, but if it works, I'll be able to clean her down with what I've got.

Yup, this restoration will be done along the lines of 'how much to do it properly, hmmm, how can I do it for nuffin'.

Actually, my MGB GT was done that way. I'd take a broken part into my MG shop. He'd look at it and say, 'that's had it'. Then he'd look at me and say 'I wonder what I can find out the back'. The front springs were a case in point - when I got them out, they were both different lengths. He led me out to a big box full of the things and told me to find two the same length - didn't charge me, just change over. Didn't get away with that for all things of course, but by cripes it made a difference.

But back to Wombat. I'll test out my compressor squirter tomorrow. If it works, I'll push Wombat out into the yard and give her a clean up. The lad's not here this weekend so I'll be doing it on my own - there's a good chance I won't get her back into the shed but he'll be home monday.

Now, what's on telebox?

[crackers]

Well, the squirter driven by my air compressor was a big fat flop - essentially, my air tank isn't big enough and the pressure drops off almost immediately. It's great for spray painting, just not for high pressure cleaning.

So I dropped in to Kennard's Hire. They'll hire me a high pressure cleaner ... for $90 a day :eek: Apparently it pushes through more water than the Karcher (same pressure) so it does the job more quickly, but for $150, I can have a unit in my shed to use whenever I need it as opposed to forking out $90 whenever I need it and being rushed.

And no, putting her on a trailer and dragging her to a car wash isn't going to work because I'd have to hire a car trailer and my little car doesn't have the towing capacity anyway.

The underside of the bodywork is going to need a lot of cleaning for which the high pressure cleaner will be ideal.

All I have to do is find some spare money. Wonder if the kids want to eat this week or if AGL want me to pay my electricity and gas bills?

[Dark61]

Always worth a try.


I'm saving for a good drill press. It will happen. I'd love a good workshop kitted out with everything but have to chip away at what I need a bit at a time. I only ever hire if it is a one off.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

I don't like pressure washers for normal cleaning because they force water past seals. However, this is a whole 'nother exercise in getting rid of crud. Even just under the mudguards will need some heavy duty cleaning, and mine don't have a heavy build up at all, just lots of little, match head sized lumps of mud.

[crackers]

I haven't done much of note until today - bit of tinkering, poking, pondering the foolishness of the whole exercise.

The next big job is pressure cleaning the brute. Unfortunately, the engine head is loose (no studs either), the plate on the block covering the camshaft is missing altogether, the distributor cap is missing, etc. The more I play with this motor, the more engine parts I find missing or broken. This becomes relevant to cleaning because it means I'll fill the motor up with water if I'm not careful, so today we did 'the big wrap'.

The lad and I attacked the beast with weapons of mass dismantling to start with, removing the generator, fan, dizzy, fuel pump, then wrapped the motor with large plastic bags. Unfortunately, I couldn't just pull a stupidly heavy plastic bag over the engine and secure it... because you can't get bags big enough or heavy enough any more, so it was a case of cunningly using layers. We covered her up well, holding it all in place with a push bike tube used as a rubber band, then did it again. The tape you can see is only on the outer layer, holding the loose edges down and again, another bike tube as a rubber band. All openings into the engine are now covered and if I'm careful with how I handle the pressure cleaner, I should be right.

I'll find out in two weeks. Why two weeks? Because my son pranged an ankle playing football and I need his help to push her in and out of the shed.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=98279&stc=1&d=1440924093

[klonk]

[QUOTE=crackers;2414004]I haven't done much of note until today - bit of tinkering, poking, pondering the foolishness of the whole exercise.



Yep I know the feeling, still happens alot. It will be worth it in the end, so I'm told.

[Dark61]

still tread light with the pressure washer Mate - just in case the wrapping 'aint as good as you think it is.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

still tread light with the pressure washer Mate - just in case the wrapping 'aint as good as you think it is.
cheers,
D

My aim will be to get the water anywhere but on that engine, even if I have to push her out and do it again once I've got the engine and gearbox out. Stupidly optimistic aren't I.;)

Ooo ****, that's another expense, I need access to an engine crane - just for the day hopefully. I'm guessing that'll need some careful planning.
Engine stand? Block of wood and concrete floor for the forseeable future I'm afraid.

[Dark61]

stuff like the engine stand / crane etc is on my list as I have two chassis up restores + one running (just) so I guess I'll get more than the one use out of it*. Also - the bil does a lot on cars, buying and selling so I reckon I can lend out the stuff in return for some knowledge.
cheers,
D


*I'll buy them and they'll probably just lay there gathering dust!

[Phil B]

Kennards Hire have engine cranes and stands
Phil

[crackers]

Didn't get a whole lot done (that translates to 'nuffin' :angel:) today but feeling guilty, and knowing I'll have to address this before painting, I had a look at the rear chassis cross member on the driver's side.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=98768&stc=1&d=1441521006

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=98767&stc=1&d=1441520994

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=98769&stc=1&d=1441521017

As you can see, she's taken a decent thump at some point. Now I have to straighten it out - I guess I could leave it for 'heritage sake', but it'd be nice to fix it.
Apart from the obvious surface rust, there's no rot so replacing it is overkill. I gave it a few desultory whacks with a heavy hammer and did no more than shake some of the surface flakes loose - this'll need heavy duty techniques.

Any thoughts on how I'm going to straighten this out?

There's no rush as I have to wash the chassis, get the motor and gearbox out, then start cleaning up and painting the chassis and it could be argued that this can be left till last, so if you have a good idea, feel free to suggest it until you see photos that show I've done the job... and that could be the other side of Christmas.

Thanks

[Homestar]

The LHS back outrigger on my series 3 was in a similar condition when I got it, but I went down the replacement path. Lopped the old bit off right at the chassis, mocked up a new one in cardboard then cut some bits of 2mm plate up, ran them through a mates folder, the welded them together. I then welded it onto the chassis - just with my old arc welder, ground the welds back, then as I was going for a very clean look, put a smear if bog over it and painted it. The result is -
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j443/Bacicat2000/4DF1FC2A-A8F1-4FC6-B2C3-6FC6723B311A-9784-00001DD794DE524F_zpsd16fe75a.jpg

[crackers]

Cripes, you've done a good job, well done.

Sadly, I don't have a welder and can't weld even if I did so it'd be something I'd have to farm out. Still, that's probably the best option. Thanks for posting.

[Homestar]

Failing that, you may need a couple of trees, some chain and a tirfor. It will take 3 times the force that caused that bend to remove it. If you can borrow an oxy torch you will have more luck.

[crackers]

That's what I feared... and that cross member is welded on isn't it, so it's not even a simple unbolt it and take it to the metal fabricator job. No oxy torch on hand either.

On the other hand, not so far down the track, I'll have the motor and gearbox out which should lighten the thing enough to go on a car trailer and still remain under the weight limit for my little car. That way I can pay my local fabricator to do it.

Anyone got a tame gorilla who likes field trips?

[Landy Smurf]

I had one slightly worse in my s1 and put a crowbar down and bent it back.

[crackers]

I had one slightly worse in my s1 and put a crowbar down and bent it back.

I'm glad you said that. I was sitting at my desk today, failing to work as efficiently as 'she who pays my wage' would appreciate, and wondering about giving that a go - afterall, I have to get Wombat out of the shed this weekend anyway, it won't hurt to shove the crowbar in there and try. Thanks.

[Sitec]

An incorrectly placed crowbar in the end of that rear X Member will only open up the end hole and give you another job to do.. As Gav said, it will take quite a bit more force to get it back to where it should be.. but, with a well placed high lift jack, block of wood and hammer, you'll get it pretty close.
Option B is an Xmember length piece of RHS clamped/strapped to the back left x member leg (the bent one).. With it strapped tight, slide a piece of wood in between the RHS and x member. It needs to be at the point of bend. Using another strap, you can now pull the other end of the RHS against the other side of the x member, putting reverse pressure in the bend. With the RHS tight across the back face of the x member, the bend now will be under a to of pressure. Use a hammer and tap on the high points of the bends.. Only apply as much pressure as is needed to start the process, but with a bit of work, the bend will start to straighten. Eventually the piece of RHS will become slack. At this point you need to repeat the process with a larger piece of pivot wood on the line of bend.. Can draw it and post a pic if I've confused you... :)

[crackers]

G'day mate,

Good to see you back on the forum... and with your location changed I'm guessing you've done the shift. Living in a new house or living in a caravan? :cool:

As for what you've described, a diagram would be good thanks. Oh, and what's an RHS? :confused:

[slug_burner]

I can help you with the RHS bit, Rectangular Hollow Section. SHS Square .... Etc.

I think Sitec will have to put up a diagram to help us with the rest.


I would get a piece of hardwood and cut it down to a size that you can slip into the open end of the cross member. Make it a close fit, stick it in as far as it will go and leave some hanging out the end. The more you can leave out the end the more leverage you will get. Once the Cross member is supported by the hardwood it will not collapse or deform when you start to apply pressure to straighten the crossmember. Hiting it with a sledge hammer is going to be of limited value other than getting your frustrations on the world out. Unless the rest of the chassis is held down and braced to stop the chassis moving, jarring and vibrating and basically absorbing the energy in you hammer blows.

I think that setting up some solid RHS to pull against while bracing it against other parts of the chassis/crossmember will allow you to apply controlled force. Other usefull techniques would involve some solid attachment points in a floor slab against which you can chain the structure and use other anchors to allow you to pull. A bit like a panel beaters chassis straightening jig.

Welding is a good skill to have, equipment is cheap enough. But you don't have to be able to weld, you just need to know people who can. Then it comes down to beer currency or a BBQ in return for some welding.

[Landy Smurf]

An incorrectly placed crowbar in the end of that rear X Member will only open up the end hole and give you another job to do.

When I did this the rear cross member had been pushed back quite a bit more than the one on Wombat and I did manage to get it back without distorting the rear cross member at all. I did it just by myself so while it was still a fair bit of force it is amazing how much one can apply through leverage.
Unfortunately I did not take a picture of the finished result but in the picture you can see the one on the right is quite bent,
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/680.jpg (http://s948.photobucket.com/user/tonysmera/media/series%20one%20royal%20princess/P4020027.jpg.html)

[crackers]

There is an evil side of me wondering if leaving it as is would be part of her 'heritage' :twisted:
And I'm not being silly either, though it's probably better to straighten it. Wish I could remember how badly the tub fitted there (though it too is bent so maybe that's not a question I should be asking).

[Dark61]

I'd have a go at straightening it as it will probably annoy the poo out of you once you finish everything , reassemble it all etc and then it will start gnawing at the soul why you didn't sort it when you could have- or - you put it right now and then on your first trip out once restored, you back it into a power pole or something similar.......
cheers,
D

[crackers]

Got me pressure washer today :D
And the lad was available :D
So we pushed Wombat out of the shed and while he worked on his Stupidroo... er... Subaru, I pressure washed the old girl.

Dirty Wombat

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99122&stc=1&d=1442040151

Less dirty Wombat

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99123&stc=1&d=1442040167

You can see the difference, honest :cool:
Note the yellow at the rear on the panel closest to you?

It's remarkable what those pressure washers take off... and what they don't. I can now tell you that the chassis was gavanised, painted yellow, then painted black (then layered with dirt ;)). Not sure if that was standard practice for 1956 (it'd be a late 1955 build) or not but the original owner's name is still painted on the front mudguard and it's not over yellow paint. It'll be interesting to see what I find when I start taking off body paint.

Thick crud on the gearbox and steering arm some of which run away in alarm, much of which stubbornly refused to budge. I'm guessing I'll get that off after attacking it with degreaser, then with the pressure washer - that can wait until the units are out of the vehicle and I'm ready to start restoring them.

The clutch master cylinder passes through a hole in a cross member and is bolted on each side. On the other side of the vehicle, is a similar hole, obviously so they can make the thing LHD if they want. Thing is, there's no cover over the hole and it's full of dust and crud and no amount of squirting water in there is going to get it all out. Wouldn't have been hard to fit a cover over it would it Mr Land Rover? Or provide a drain hole?

Next job. Remove the pedals. Disconnect the steering and remove the steering column. Break the rust mass holding the firewall bolts together and remove the firewall. Then start removing the gearbox and engine, as described in my thread in the general section. Still well short running out of things to do.:cool:

[crackers]

I'd have a go at straightening it as it will probably annoy the poo out of you once you finish everything
D

I did do the crowbar in the hole, push hard and whack with a small sledge job. The top of the rear cross member is now more or less straight. It is, however, twisted so I'm going to have to have a go at un-twisting that, probably with a pipe wrench if I can find my big one. A tear opened in the top of the metal as Sitec suggested but nothing a line of weld won't fix/hide.

Looking at that cross member, it's had a hard life. If I wanted her to be perfect, I'd have to cut it off and replace it. Leaving her as is, with all her dents and bings, just reflects her age and character. With a bit more work on that right hand side, I reckon leaving it is probably a good move. I'm also considering that unless I buy a really good condition tub (if I can find one), mine is going to be banged about with big repairs at the back where the metal is badly torn. She's unlikely to be a fashion queen. Things to ponder as I get to them. I can always cut that cross member off and replace it at a later stage.

[JDNSW]

........ I'm also considering that unless I buy a really good condition tub (if I can find one), mine is going to be banged about with big repairs at the back where the metal is badly torn. .........

The lwb Series 1 tub has a number of significant weaknesses, as I am sure you know, just looking at yours! (The Series 2/3/110/Defender tub was far better designed and built - they learned from experience.)

With this in mind, I don't like your chances of finding one in good condition, but you never know!

John

[russellrovers]

I did do the crowbar in the hole, push hard and whack with a small sledge job. The top of the rear cross member is now more or less straight. It is, however, twisted so I'm going to have to have a go at un-twisting that, probably with a pipe wrench if I can find my big one. A tear opened in the top of the metal as Sitec suggested but nothing a line of weld won't fix/hide.

Looking at that cross member, it's had a hard life. If I wanted her to be perfect, I'd have to cut it off and replace it. Leaving her as is, with all her dents and bings, just reflects her age and character. With a bit more work on that right hand side, I reckon leaving it is probably a good move. I'm also considering that unless I buy a really good condition tub (if I can find one), mine is going to be banged about with big repairs at the back where the metal is badly torn. She's unlikely to be a fashion queen. Things to ponder as I get to them. I can always cut that cross member off and replace it at a later stage.hi have a rear tub here for a 107 no damage also chassis been been cut up and selected good parts of chassi and rest scrapped if you need phone me jim

[crackers]

Got the steering column out today. Longish, slow job, just start at the top and work down... and pretend I'm not going to have to restore these bits later (scary).

The main bracket holding the column to the firewall is a two part job. Unfortunately, the bottom half of that bracket is broken along one side so it'll need replacing.

Compulsory picture to show I'm not fibbing - steering column sitting on wheel :D

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99186&stc=1&d=1442131558

You'll also note how clean everything is after yesterday's effort. For example, that steering box was a mass of cacked on, oil soaked, crud and it's shape impossible to define, let alone actually remove it.

[slug_burner]

Don't throw those broken bits away. You can always use them as templates to get replacements made.

[crackers]

Don't throw those broken bits away. You can always use them as templates to get replacements made.

I'm not even throwing broken bolts out, they may give me a lead on what I need to bolt something back together :cool:

[Sitec]

Here's a sketch of how I'd tackle it.

[crackers]

Here's a sketch of how I'd tackle it.

Looks good. How would you handle the twist it's got? That's the biggest problem I have.

[Sitec]

Looks good. How would you handle the twist it's got? That's the biggest problem I have.

That's where the right amount of hammer work on the bends comes into play. ;)

[crackers]

That's where the right amount of hammer work on the bends comes into play. ;)

Bugga, finesse :BigCry:

[klonk]

Just catching up with your post. Your going well.

I picked up on your comment about chassis colour. The yellow you mention will be a primer. So your chassis colour will be the black.
Klonk had the same under the green paint. I think it's zinc chromate.

[Homestar]

Here's a sketch of how I'd tackle it.

Great idea - that's the go. :)

[Dinty]

And add a bit of heat via Oxy/acetylene or something similar, use your head think about it as you go along, a good hammer & dolly would help as well, keep applying tension throughout the process, cheers Dennis

[Dark61]

why does the bulkhead have to come off? It doesn't look too bad from the last couple of pics. I thought once off , mega issues trying to get it back on nice and straight again. I'm not offering this pearl from any kind of position near to I know what I'm talking about , just what I've heard from other people.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

And add a bit of heat via Oxy/acetylene or something similar, use your head think about it as you go along, a good hammer & dolly would help as well, keep applying tension throughout the process, cheers Dennis

I don't have oxy or anything like it Dennis, this'll be a bash'n hope job. Somewhere along the line, I have to decide how good I want the back end to be. Factory fresh is outside both my budget and my skill set but sound is achievable.

[crackers]

why does the bulkhead have to come off? It doesn't look too bad from the last couple of pics. I thought once off , mega issues trying to get it back on nice and straight again. I'm not offering this pearl from any kind of position near to I know what I'm talking about , just what I've heard from other people.
cheers,
D

Good point on alignment D.

I have to have a closer look at how good she is. That corner is pretty rough and bent but I'm not so sure about the rest of it - patchy paint, surface rust and not having had a thoughtful all mean that I'm probably not really sure what I've got overall.

I could leave it as is and paint a small sign on it: The farmer did it :twisted:

At the end of the job, it doesn't HAVE to be perfect, just not horrible and preferably a pretty darned good (my primary aim). :cool:

Her tail end is in a dark corner of the shed, pushed up against a bench so I'll have to wait till the weekend to push her forward and have a good look.

[Dark61]

I'm in the not perfect but not horrible camp as well. You're doing well.


cheers,
D

[crackers]

I'm in the not perfect but not horrible camp as well. You're doing well.


cheers,
D

I don't know who to feel sorry for, me agreeing with you or you agreeing with me :eek:

Seriously, I've a lot of respect for those that desire to and actually can do it properly. Don't let my flippant nature suggest otherwise.

[Homestar]

why does the bulkhead have to come off? It doesn't look too bad from the last couple of pics. I thought once off , mega issues trying to get it back on nice and straight again. I'm not offering this pearl from any kind of position near to I know what I'm talking about , just what I've heard from other people.
cheers,
D

If you are only removing and installing the same bulkhead with the same spacers, then it will go back in the same position. The problems start when you replace the original bulkhead with a different unit. They, and the spacers are made to fit individual chassis, and each one is slightly different, which is what causes the dramas.

[crackers]

I'm not far off pulling the motor. I need to finish getting the pedals and associated systems out so I can remove the firewall and heavens knows how long that'll take. I'm also messing about with that mangled rear of the chassis (just to keep me amused) so it's probably not going to happen this weekend BUT, it's not far away... I hope. :angel:

I'll be removing the gearbox and transfer case first and assume I'll need some straps to lift them seeing I've got the crane (oh poo, I'll have to find somewhere to store them).
Also, the engine head is not installed nor are there any studs in the block so I don't have the usual engine lift points.

What do I need to lift the transfer case/gearbox/engine? I was thinking along the lines of some wide straps, probably car tie-downs with the ratchet removed - tie-downs so I can use them if I ever need to trailer the vehicle.

Any thoughts?
Specifically, if straps are the way to go, any thoughts on what to get and where to place them?

And yes, I know I'm panicking before hand. It's a fine family tradition that keeps us amused late at night when it's too cold to go out into the shed :cool::cool:

[slug_burner]

You can use a length of chain and attach it to a stud or bolt on the engine.

[crackers]

Had a really good go at sorting out the rear cross member using Sitec's suggestion. No luck :(

Heat would be the go but I don't have an oxy set up. I do have a little butane torch but it's small beer and besides, the canister is empty and they're hard to get because people buy them to make their ice (the drug sort of ice - that's what the hardware bloke told me anyway).

I think my Dad's got a torch for his propane bottles. Is that likely to give enough heat to be useful in the long term?

[crackers]

I removed all the pedals and unbolted the firewall supports so I'm now ready to remove the firewall... except the two big bolts that hold it to the chassis are rusted solid. Any thoughts on how to get them free? (currently making Mr WD40 rich)

Heat occurred to me, but I don't have any - see my above post. Is a propane torch likely to give enough heat to free recalcitrant nuts? Seeing I'm diving into the chassis, I expect to meet this sort of problem again.

Edited to add: Just spoke to my Dad and he's still got his small gas bottle with the torch (this is stuff where you refill your bottle at hardware stores or petrol stations, I'm calling it propane but please correct me if I'm suffering a senior moment). I'll try to get down there tomorrow to pick it up.

[Dinty]

Crackers, this type of heat is cheap n affordable,
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/DJM110/1955%20Series%201%20rebuild/IMG_4279_zps4xgg4cam.jpg
it's fully adjustable flame will heat up the bolt, spray the affected bolt/s with penetrating oil while it's hot, it will make a lot of smoke, while it's hot do you have access to a rattle gun, if not a socket with a breaker bar, try not to get too big on the breaker bar or you could snap/bust the socket.
The gas guns are available @ places like Bunnings etc, cheers Dennis
ps if you buy one make sure the nozzle is the bigger one, as they do come in a smaller size for small solder jobs,,.

[crackers]

Where/how do you refill the bottle? Thanks for the tip on the nozzle.

Just had another go at these nuts with an impact driver (the old 'whack it with a hammer' type). No joy. Worth remembering as a frustration defuser though. Looking at the amount of rust on the bolt and nut, I'm beginning to wonder if, in this case, reaching for the angle grinder might be the smart option. Surely a pair of big bolts wouldn't be hard to replace.

[crackers]

Well, wasn't that fun (hint, it wasn't :mad:)

Had a closer look at the offending nuts and bolts - these are the big, half inch jobbies that hold the firewall to the chassis, one on each side. I decided there was too much rust to expect the nut to come free, no matter what I did, so I donned the leather apron and face mask, dug out the angle grinder and cut the nuts off.

Crackers top tip: After grinding off a nut, don't just put it in a plastic bag. Let it cool down first, otherwise, it just melts a hole in the bag :angel:

Right. Nuts are ground off. Just get an old bolt to use as a dolly and tap the bolt out right? Okay, maybe 'tap' isn't the right word, maybe you need to whack it. Okay, maybe belt the living daylights out of the thing :mad:
Nope, couldn't get the :censored: to move. Got the firewall to move on one side, but repeated bashing led me to fear bending it (mainly because I noticed I was :angel:)
Them :censored: bolts are rusted solid into the chassis and, at least on one side, into the firewall, though the other side still needs severe coercion to finish the job.

So I need heat after all.
And some inspiration. Please tell me those bolts are supposed to just tap out and that I'm not doing irreparable damage.

On a positive note, I think I found at least some of the head bolts and the head is now bolted to the block - no head gasket so I only nipped them up but it should be good enough to be able to life the engine out of the chassis. The head even has the two lifting points in place. Pity I don't have unimportant stuff like cam followers.

[Dinty]

Well mate, you have just shifted the goal posts a bit further away LOL, I can understand cutting off the rusted nut but not the hex head of the bolt, as now you have nothing to use a socket n breaker bar on.
The canisters on the MAP gas gun are disposable, not re-usable, readily available where you buy the torch from. I would still apply heat (when you get something to apply it with) and try to get some penetrating fluids in n on the bolt, you could try (after heating) dropping penetrating fluid between the bulkhead upright and the chassis out rigger, if this proves fruitless then what I would do is get a 'thin' metal cutting disc and cut the bolt in half where the bulkhead meets the chassis on the outrigger end, cut through any spacer washer that might be there, keep in your mind the thickness of said washer as you will need to replace it later.
If you go down this path, you will need to support the bulkhead because as you cut through it will/might jam the cutting disc causing it to fly to pieces.
Once you have the bulkhead off, you will still need to remove the broken bolt/s, at least if you can dot the bolt in the center, you may be able to drill it out in stages, then hopefully with the heat from the drill it might make it loose enough to drive it out, hope that's of some help/consolation for you, your arms are going to get a workout, cheers Dennis

[crackers]

I haven't cut the head of the bolt off so I've still got that option (darn, no wiping sweat from forehead smilie).

The firewall is, from memory, open at the inside so I can get heat onto the tube that holds the bolt. Heat that up, then apply force, get firewall free. See, I'm still an optimist :eek:

As for getting the bolt out of the chassis - the tube holding the bolt is enclosed inside the chassis (I think, actually, I'm pretty sure it is). I can only hope that heating the bolt and applying pressure via the head of the bolt will start to get things moving.

Sheesh, this was supposed to be one of the more obviously simple jobs. Shows how you shouldn't pre-guess these beasts :mad:

Is this why this part of the dismantling process is always glossed over in the 'tutorials' you see? It seems such an obvious place to get rust and problems that I'm amazed that it's not more well documented (hint, this is where you point me to countless threads telling me how to get around this :cool:).

[crackers]

I would still apply heat (when you get something to apply it with) and try to get some penetrating fluids in n on the bolt, you could try (after heating) dropping penetrating fluid between the bulkhead upright and the chassis out rigger, if this proves fruitless then what I would do is get a 'thin' metal cutting disc and cut the bolt in half where the bulkhead meets the chassis on the outrigger end, cut through any spacer washer that might be there, keep in your mind the thickness of said washer as you will need to replace it later.
If you go down this path, you will need to support the bulkhead because as you cut through it will/might jam the cutting disc causing it to fly to pieces.

I'm getting fed by my Mum tomorrow and at the same time, picking up my Dad's gas torch so I'm right for heat (and for tucker) :D
Wouldn't believe I'm old enough to be a grandpa meself would you, but I'se is, even if the kids aren't showing signs of producing kids themselves.

For supporting the firewall, I'm using my engine crane. I'd hoped to reveal this at the last moment as a 'wow' moment, but seeing I now have the brute, I couldn't see why it couldn't help with stuff other than just the engine. At the moment, it's hooked up to the two pivots for the windscreen so that once the firewall is free, it'll be free to dangle from the crane.

[wrinklearthur]

if you get one bolt out, you can use the firewall it's self as a dirty great big lever and twist the remaining bolt with lots of WDCRINORP or what ever fluid.

Watch out you don't rivet the bolt in the hole by using a drift and hammer, as that can mushroom the end inside the hole. a little heat is good but keep it to a black heat and getting it to glow white hot is not the thing to do.

Oh yeah and think of all the want-a-be patron saints of the Land Rover and pray to them.

Failing all of the above one of the stuck halves can be drilled out.

[Dark61]

drill it out would be my first option.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

Patron saints of Land Rover? But I'm not into devil worship :twisted:

I'm glad others find these brutes hard too. I wonder how many people in the know just say 'fuggit' and restore the vehicle with the firewall in place.

Regarding the heating, just apply the torch to the head and get it off before things turn red, is that right?
Let it cool before trying the socket? I'm asking this because wouldn't heating the bolt make it expand in that tube?

Useful tip about riveting the bolt into that tube, thanks. hope I haven't already done that.

My dad suggested putting my power drill onto hammer mode to drill it out. Any thoughts? Especially regarding the 'rivet' theory?

[Dark61]

If you don't need to remove it I'd leave it where it is . I wouldn't go red hot - when its "nice and hot" (technical term) stick some penetrating oil on it so it sucks it in as it cools. Having said that - I spent hours trying to remove a door bolt in that way with no success and at the point of insanity - drilled it out in under 20 seconds.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

drilled it out in under 20 seconds.
cheers,
D

You've a steadier hand than me, I get a bit to go skew iff even when using a drill press and vice :eek:

Last resort job drilling... and because I've already ground the nuts off, I can't just leave it, though things are so jammed solid I probably could :angel:

Next weekend. Just about to go down to Mum and Dad's for lunch... and to swipe his torch (he doesn't mind lending/giving me tools, it's all part of his long term plan to clean out HIS shed by cluttering mine :cool:)

[slug_burner]

The use of heat is to expand the metal and hopefully break the rust. A couple of cycles of hot and cold can do the trick. Spraying a penetrating oil will cool things quickly as well at get drawn in to provide some lube. On tight fits heat can be used to expand one part while leaving the other unexpanded or even cooled to get one part to expand and the other to stay at room temp size or shrink through cooling. Give it a try but I suspect you will need force or a drill.

Can you rig up a puller to push the bolt back out? Using a drift with a flat end and of a size similar to the bolt will avoid mushrooming the bolt. You need someone with a big heavy ballast to brace the bulk head to maximise the benefit of the blows directed onto the bolt.

[crackers]

I was able to borrow my Dad's propane torch so now can apply some serious heat to things - fingers, legs, ears and maybe even some bits of Land Rover. I've had a couple of goes on those bolts with no luck, but will apply a few cycles of heat and penetrating oil.

My socket set has one handle which is just a shaft through a fitting for the socket. Using that with an extension bar, all I achieved was to bend the shaft.

I was able to push the firewall forward off the bolt on the passenger side... after I thought to remove those vertical firewall supports :angel:
By lifting that side, the firewall pivots around the driver's side bolt easily so it's not stuck on that side BUT, do you reckon I can get it off? No amount of force or coercion will move it.

Confession time. When I first ground off the nut on that side, I tried to bash the bolt free. Although I gave up fairly quickly because I was starting to round off the head, I'm wondering if I haven't riveted the bolt in that tube as wrinklearthur suggested is possible.

I did have a brief go with my powerdrill but could barely mark the bolt, they must be made out of really tough stuff (and yes, I know my bits are rubbish though I used one that looked as though it had little use).

So at the moment, the firewall is free of the bolt on the passenger side. It'll rotate easily around the bolt on the driver's side but the firewall won't slide off it. Both bolts are stuck solid in the chassis and because I cut the nuts off with the angle grinder, I have to replace them.

[Sitec]

Ok, I'll paint a picture of the internals.. The bolt goes thru the bulkhead tube, and also a tube in the outrigger. Over time and use, water works its way in between the outer shank of the bolt and the inner wall of the tube.. This causes both the bolt and the tube to rust. In doing so they swell which causes the problem you have.. Having soaked, hit, cut, soaked etc you have prob not achieved too much.. First suggestion is to soak it every night and morning this week, and try it again next sat. Suggestion 2 is to drill a small hole thru the end of the outrigger and into the middle of the internal tube on both the bulkhead and outrigger. You only need to get thru the tube and touch the bolt shank. 3 or 4 mm will do. Then soak this hole with WD40. It will soften the expanded rust and hopefully help. If I find myself down your way, I'll come straighten that rear X Member. :)

[crackers]

Finally got the firewall off :D
But those damned bolts are still stuck in the chassis :mad:

I was able to borrow my Dad's propane torch and have been using that to apply heat, and have made the CEO of WD40 very happy with this year's profits. In fact, so much WD40 has dripped on the ground that the concrete under the job will never rust.

Now some pics and chatter

First official use of my 'new' crane - to support the firewall. Working on my own, I thought this was a good idea and it proved to be so because that firewall isn't light and it's quite unwieldy once free.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99671&stc=1&d=1442921622

This is the area that's been giving me all the grief. The photo shows the passenger side of the firewall which came off quite easily (leaving the bolt stuck in place).

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99672&stc=1&d=1442921822

To get the driver's side free, it was a cast of heat, WD40, lots more heat, lots more WD40, bash, bash, bash. The annoying part was that the firewall would rotate easily around the bolt if I lifted the other side. In the end, what got the brute moving was to bash a wedge between the chassis and the firewall. What did I use for the wedge? The tooth off a plough that I found in the back of the Landy.

Anyways, I got the firewall off and safely stored against the pile of body panels at the side of the shed. Here's what I'm left with

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99673&stc=1&d=1442922080

These bolts (one each side) are my next challenge. I'm following Sitec's advice to soak the thing everyday. I haven't drilled the small oiling hole he suggested because my current drills wouldn't cut cheese.

But I've finally got to this point

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99675&stc=1&d=1442922518

except I've got to get them rotten bolts out :mad:

[Dark61]

www.aulro.com/afvb/...i.../198905-firewall-chassis-splice-bolt.html (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/...i.../198905-firewall-chassis-splice-bolt.html)


You are not alone.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

Thanks D. All a bit dire isn't it. :(

[Dark61]

It will come out. Positive vibes. When I was struggling with the door bolt , when it finally moved it was almost like the birth of my first child!
cheers,
D

[Rick Fischer]

Hi

Assume (ass of uan me) Anyway ......firewall chassis 6" bloody bolt!

Did all of everything heat penetrating oil etc etc ......all of the above! :(

Finally used the finest cutting disc I could find and cut through the bolt at the joint. Just the bolt and half the tube. That allowed the firewall to be removed. Once removed the remains of the bolts drove out easily with big punch and a 6lb little sledge. :)

Important that the tube/s not cut right through so as to provide the correct distance piece/Shim at re-assembly with new bolts.

regards

Rick F

[crackers]

At the moment, the bolt is still long (as shown in the photo above). I've been pondering the wisdom of cutting it off flush with the compression tube. Any thoughts?

[crackers]

Half an hour after my last post and I have stuff to report, good and annoying.

Heat applied to both bolts, WD40 flooded on.

Went back to the driver's side, gave the end of the bolt a few welts with small sledge. Lo and behold, there's now a gap between the head of the bolt and the washer. Heat it all up again, bash some more... and the bolt's moving. Rate of movement increased until the end of the bolt reached the compression tube. Got another bolt to use as a dolly and a few minutes later, the bolt leaps free of its shackles and lands with a satisfying clank on the floor. :D

Now to the passenger side. A couple of whacks. Nuffin. Fire up the propane torch, heat it up good and proper. Time to attack. THIS time, I gave the mallet to my son - you know, father/son bonding, get the lad involved. He starts belting away with a passion and I'm thinking - he's hitting it harder than me.
Then I saw it. He'd bent the bolt at some point, not noticed and by keeping on going, the bolt now has quite a bend in it. :BigCry:

Okay, I should have been monitoring him better (he's 22 but has never done anything like this Landy before).

So I got everything good and hot, squirted WD40 everywhere and came inside to sulk :(

At least I now know I have to cut that bolt off but the question is, when and where?

I'm thinking I'll keep up the heat and oil bit until sat. Each night, I'll give the bolt a few belts in the hope it moves and if so, THEN act.

[Dark61]

This is better than watching tele. I'd cut it just before the tube and keep up with the heat/wd40/ hammer treatment. Don't forget to occasionally whack it from the bolt head side. Someone should have invented some kind of sonic rust remover by now that you can leave on 24/7.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

This is better than watching tele.

I'm here to serve :D


I'd cut it just before the tube and keep up with the heat/wd40/ hammer treatment. Don't forget to occasionally whack it from the bolt head side. Someone should have invented some kind of sonic rust remover by now that you can leave on 24/7.
cheers,
DHey, we could set up a KickStarter, it sounds like just the sort of pointless project that'd get heaps of money :twisted:

I'm tempted not to cut yet because I can still bash and belt and the like and would prefer to be mangling the long end rather than something close to the tube. Do I try to straighten the bolt so I can direct the force better? Or do I bend it near 90 degrees so I can put a long bar on it and twist it?

[Homestar]

Have you had any luck trying to turn the bolt in the chassis? Using a socket and a large breaker bar and pipe if you need to to get it to turn. After that, cut the head off the bolt and use a drift to punch it out backwards. If the bolt is now bent it isn't going to come out the right way.

[crackers]

No luck getting it to turn. Wary of using my ratchet handle too because I don't want to blow that up and that's the sort of pressure I'm putting on it.

I'm a little wary about cutting the head off before getting some sort of movement because that stops you being able to twist it, but I take your point about the bend.

I was thinking along the lines of cutting the bolt off flush with the end of the compression tube after getting movement on the grounds that this should leave only straight metal to push through the tube. I'd only cut it AFTER I got it moving to avoid burring over the end which is what I faced on the other side though as it turned out, that wasn't a problem except the drift kept sliding off the now rounded end of that bolt.

[Homestar]

Yep, sounds like you're on the same page - get it to move first. Do you have any friends with a large breaker bar, or a 3/4" socket set? Im sure a decent single hex socket - like an impact socket and a good quality 3' breaker bar would get it to move. If you lived closer I'd lend you mine, hopefully you will get it to move soon. :)

[Dark61]

Softly softly catchee monkey. I'd put a cheap spanner on it and a tube over the end of the spanner strong enough not to bend. That way , you don't hurt your socket wrenches. Don't try get it out in one go - just wiggle it up and down each time you apply the heat / wd40/ Hammer. It'll shift eventually.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

I've got some weapons to twist. Tried them tonight with no noticeable success. Will try to remember to include that in the assault as I tend to forget it's an option.

Did get some movement from bashing the end of the bolt (using heat and WD40 of course). Only a little, enough to make a crack between the washer and the compression tube. Knocked it shut again. Opened it up, but it wasn't going anywhere. Considering the bent bolt and that it might be jamming in the end of the tube, I cut the bolt off level with the tube (at the opposite end to the head of the bolt natch). Using a bolt as a drift, I was able to move the bolt, but only a smidge. Hitting the head, I can knock it back in. So I can marginally move it. Much harder doing it this way, holding drift and hitting it, than hitting the end of the bolt and I can't hit as hard (might be a good thing).

Anyways, I didn't achieve much more than marginal movement backwards and forwards. Heated it up again, squirted and came inside to cook dinner.

It will give up eventually - just be nice if it did it sooner rather than later but maybe I'm not patient enough for this restoration game and she's trying to teach me some. :angel:

[crackers]

Yep, sounds like you're on the same page - get it to move first. Do you have any friends with a large breaker bar, or a 3/4" socket set? Im sure a decent single hex socket - like an impact socket and a good quality 3' breaker bar would get it to move. If you lived closer I'd lend you mine, hopefully you will get it to move soon. :)

Actually, I've got an impact driver. Might give that a go. Get that sudden twist each way might help. I'll do that next time.

As well as the ratchet handle, my socket set does have a solid bar fitting. I've put a long tube on that and leant on it but it just bends when I lean on it.

[Dark61]

At least you have movement. Keep up the good work , don't try and do it all in one whack otherwise you may get it stuck again. I think when it finally shifts we ought to make it a public holiday. Lets ask that nice Mr Muir for his assistance.
cheers,
D

[wrinklearthur]

Got access to a welder? weld a couple of long bits of scrap across both ends of the bolt, but not too close to the chassis so you can cut the last of the bolt away afterwards.
Using the scrap as levers and while the heat from the welder is still in there, twist both levers up and down at the same time and something will move I am sure.

[crackers]

Got access to a welder? weld a couple of long bits of scrap across both ends of the bolt, but not too close to the chassis so you can cut the last of the bolt away afterwards.
Using the scrap as levers and while the heat from the welder is still in there, twist both levers up and down at the same time and something will move I am sure.

It's cut too close at the bolt end to do this, but I could still weld something onto the head. Worth a go. Thanks.

[crackers]

Well, I give up, though it's due more to my incompetence than the suggestions made.

Digging around in the shed, I found an old arc welder I'd been given many years ago. I've never used it and, to be honest, the fittings aren't the best. Anyway, it's there. No face mask, so I went up to Mitre 10 and bought one.

Bit of a win there. The manager saw me wandering the shelves and when I asked about masks, he led me to where there was one left. It's one of those that you can see through and which goes black when the weld starts. I asked how much and he leant down to read the tag in front of it $36. I took it to the front counter and it scanned at $116 - I squawked in shock. The manager was nearby, heard me and said: "I told him it's $36 so that's what we'll sell it at". So I got a good deal there and yes, they'll be getting more of my business.

Home to see if this welder works... and to teach myself how to weld (had basic instruction once years ago). Finally worked out how to coax welds out of the thing.

Eventually decided to have a go at welding a bolt onto the bolt jammed in the chassis (I'd bought a nice new one for the purpose). My first effort fell off when I let go of it. Hmmm. Cleaned it up. Welded it back on again, came off as soon as I pulled on it.

Obviously I know stuff all about welding, which is only to be expected. Were YOU an expert the first time you tried? Without tuition?

Doesn't help me with this sodding bolt though and to be honest, I don't think I've achieved anything except to make it even harder to get out. The phrase 'thoroughly fed up' springs readily to mine. :wallbash:

[crackers]

I watched a couple of how to weld videos on youtube - one was actually useful. Went out into the shed, got an old star dropper and started practicing - much better when you know what you're supposed to be doing (as opposed to what you actually are). Practiced welding a round bit of rod onto the star dropper.

Then got keen and welded a long bolt onto the jammed firewall bolt.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99811&stc=1&d=1443250108

As you can see, I did a real classy job and metal shops all over the country will be lining up to hire me :angel:

Then I put my extension pipe over it...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99812&stc=1&d=1443250124

and pulled.

The bolt (the one that's supposed to be doing the twisting) just bent. Bent the bugger up and down for a bit but it just felt like I was trying to soften it to break it off much as you'd do with a bit of wire.

I guess I could get in there with the propane torch and heat everything up but I can't say I'm feeling too positive.

Yes, this is where you tell me I've used the wrong bolt, that I should have sourced a hi-tensile one or some such damned thing. Either way, I've got to grind this off and hope the head of the firewall bolt isn't so stuffed up I can't get a socket on it. :(

So I squirted some WD40 all over things and shut the shed door. Trying to decide between rum, scotch or brandy for tonight. :(

[crackers]

And I've just remembered that I was going to put part of Sitec's suggestions into practice - namely, buy a 3mm bit and drill a hole into the centre of the compression tube so I can squirt WD40 into the centre of the mess as well as on the ends... but I forget, so I didn't buy the bit did I.

[crackers]

Following a suggestion from my dad, I got things good and hot, fitted a gear puller, pulled it up really tight (note the bow in the drive bolt), gave it a couple of whacks.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99818&stc=1&d=1443254879

Nothing happened but I'm leaving it under tension overnight.

We'll see. ;)

[Homestar]

Man, that bolts is stuck! We all started welding like that. :). Back when I started there was no internet and phones still had cords and dials on them, so I taught myself - with diabolical results, so we've all been there. :D

Maybe try welding the star picket to the bolt - that won't bend as easy as the bar you have on there. Hopefully you're creeping up on it and it will give up soon.

[crackers]

I've bent star droppers over the years. In that other thread, someone mentioned cutting the whole tube out and welding in a new one - that's not sounding outrageous at the moment :(

[Dark61]

how about giving the drilling it out thought one more chance ?Start with a small bit and go larger - nice and slow, nice and straight. I know you said you cant drill straight but neither can I and I still managed it. I accept the bolts in question were different.
cheers,
D

[crackers]

how about giving the drilling it out thought one more chance ?Start with a small bit and go larger - nice and slow, nice and straight. I know you said you cant drill straight but neither can I and I still managed it. I accept the bolts in question were different.
cheers,
D

I'm saving that as a last resort. The big problem is that it feels like the bolt is hi-tensile steel and the one effort I made at drilling the other bolt barely made a scratch in it. It won't hurt me to test the theory anyway. Just about to head out for another effort.

[Lionelgee]

Hello Crackers,

I belong to a tractor forum that has a number of engineers that contribute to the thread. There has been discussion about tests conducted using a 50/50 mix of acetone and either WD40, or automatic transmission fluid, or vegetable oil to make your own penetrating oil. There was also a study done by the Machinist's Workshop magazine in their April 2007 issue - their results are mentioned in the YouTube clip...

Yes, acetone is a highly flammable and toxic chemical - definitely not a "green" option = handle with care.

https://www.engineeringforchange.org/how-to-make-penetrating-oil

There is a Youtube clip about ATF and acetone mix - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WuVBFTzoKc

Another forum that mentions the article is http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/ot-penetrating-oil-196347

Some people swear by the mix and others claim that it makes no difference at all. It seems that you might like to include this option in your arsenal against the bolt.

Could you turn the part of the chassis around so the bolt was vertical and you could use some type of cylinder with a seal on the bottom. This would make a well and fill it up with the penetrating mix so that it soaks in overnight? Otherwise if the chassis is too awkward to rotate just use multiple applications over a couple of days - weeks.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[crackers]

Started whaling on the welded on bolt with a hammer - near the join of course. Thought I saw things change. 'Nah,' I thought, just the bolt bending.
Whaled away some more. 'Definitely looks like movement'.
Got a small cold chisel and put an index mark on the tube and bolt at the other end.
Whaled away.
Now un-welded bolt goes flying across the workshop floor.
Check the index mark - small movement, waaaaayyyyy less than a mm but the two lines no longer lined up.

Right. Weld on another bolt, the hi-ten jobby from the other side. Leant on it with the extension tube. Bolt comes off. Obviously my welding skills again.

Heated up the works.
Whacked away with the hammer and dolly again. Could convince myself there was some minuscule movement... but maybe it's just blind optimism.

Anyways, I had a good worry and think AND...

decided to drill the brute out.

I've only got two bits worth anything (yup, once again, I get into this after the hardware stores have shut), a small one and one that just happens to be the same size as the tube.

Started drilling the pilot hole. This actually went pretty well - take it quietly, lots of WD40 for lubricant. I stopped at half an inch in and switched to the big drill. This too went surprisingly well. Drilled for about half the pilot, reattacked the pilot, went at it again with the big bit. Stopped short of the bottom of the pilot of course.

This was obviously going to take a looooonnnnnng time and besides, my small bit isn't long enough to go right through (would have to come in from the other side). The other problem is that I'm slightly widening the end of the compression tube. So I heated everything up, lubed it and, using the bolt from the other side as a dolly, started belting away in the hope this bolt would pop free.

It didn't.
Maybe the crack behind the washer opened a poofteenth.

Either way, it's going to be more of the same.
So I came inside for a cup of tea :angel:

[crackers]

Hello Crackers,

I belong to a tractor forum that has a number of engineers that contribute to the thread. There has been discussion about tests conducted using a 50/50 mix of acetone and either WD40, or automatic transmission fluid, or vegetable oil to make your own penetrating oil.

Yes acetone is a highly flammable and toxic chemical - definitely not a "green" option = handle with care.

There is a Youtube clip about ATF and acetone mix -

Some people swear by the mix and others claim that it makes no difference at all. It seems that you might like to include this option in your arsenal against the bolt.

Kind Regards
Lionel

I've tried it :D

I've even got a bottle of it - I used acetone and ATF.

I'm not sure if it worked or not. It certainly does the job but I wouldn't like to say it's better than WD40. I've been wondering whether to give it a go for this job or not, guess I wasn't convinced enough to, especially seeing I've been squirting the WD40 onto hot and very hot metal (so the stuff gets sucked in as the metal cools).

The big problem is that the bolt either sheers off or comes free and you really do not know if it would have done it with the other goop or not.

[crackers]

Got the recalcitrant little sod out :D

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99859&stc=1&d=1443343797

So what did it?

I drilled the pilot hole right down to the chuck of my drill. Then started attacking it with the big bit. After one break, I suspected I was going off line, so I heated things up, and assaulted it with the dolly and hammer. No luck.

So I went inside for a cup of tea.

Bashed again upon return. No luck, so I carried on drilling, trying to keep on line. Did a lot of drilling, to the point where I was at or past the half way mark.
I was sure I was off line so rather than use a dolly that fitted the hole, I used a skinnier one. Heated it up and bashed, and bashed, and missed and whopped my hand - do that with a baby sledge (the size of my fist) and you know about it.
So I heated everything up and renewed the assault.
It started to move. Not much, but it moved.
Bashed some more, sweat providing an almost constant stream to cool the work area. I wear glasses so standing over the job with my glasses now swimming pools of sweat just made it all more 'interesting'.

The bolt moved a bit - by now, it'd moved a couple of mm (yeah, it doesn't take much to get me excited).

Put a pipe wrench on the head of the bolt and by using all my generous body weight, I was able to twist the bolt by about one flat.

Still wary of clouting my hand, and with the dolly being shorter than I felt comfortable with, I dug out an old pair of multi-grips to hold the dolly, and resumed my assault.

Heat. Pour on penetrene.
Bash like mad.

Repeat.

The bolt began to move.
I got the thing about 2cm clear of the tube before it really started to shift, then suddenly... PING, that happy sound as it landed on the floor.

Now look back to the photo. You can see that I'd drilled at least halfway through the bolt but also that for much of that distance, I was going off line. This is what I feared with drilling the bolt out. I'm also concerned about my drill which got very hot and actually smoked when I put it down. Still, what's done is done.

Hopefully the slightly enlarged compression tube isn't going to be a problem.

Thinking back to Lionel's suggestion, I got out my bottle of acetone/ATF mix and was using that at the bolt end. The question is, did this stuff make a difference or was the bolt ready to give way anyway? I don't know.

But the brute's out now. Now I can go onto something basic and straight forward - removing the engine and gearbox.

[Homestar]

Yes Haw! :D

Wow, what a saga. I bet you'll be glad to move onto something else now. Maybe a smear of never-seize or similar on the new bolts. ;)

[Lionelgee]

G'day Crackers,

Good to read and see that the bolt is out.

There could be another suggestion it relates to the possible letting of blood as a result of your hammer blow to your hand. Sometimes I think there is a gremlin of DYI that requires a blood sacrifice for things to go right. Or alternatively you have to reach a certain level of insanity, that is brought on by frustration until it considers that you are worthy enough to proceed with the job. Maybe you provided sufficient levels of both tokens of sacrifice to appease the twisted little sod that is the DYI gemlin! :twisted:

Kind Regards
Lionel

[crackers]

Hmm, I had a model aeroplane engine that wouldn't start unless you swore at it. I was never sure whether it needed the offering or if by the time you were cranky enough to swear, you were flicking the propellor that little bit harder.

Can't say I was swinging that hammer any harder, I was (and still am) knackered ;)

[Dark61]

well done.


I don't think there's any harm in offering a libation either.


Is there a patron saint of seized bolts? There should be, I ought to have a word with the Pope. Set up your drilled out bolt on some kind of altar in your shop so next time (hopefully there wont be one) you can make some kind of offering ahead of the task.
cheers,
D

[Lionelgee]

Hello Crackers,

There could be something in a name too. "Wombat" is this creature known for its flexibility and rapidity in being able to change direction - if not mind? Stubborn, a bulldozer on four legs that will push its way through fences or other barriers. Hmmm a very stuck bolt ....

Kind Regards
Lionel

[wrinklearthur]

Ah! Now I know how to do it. :angel:

[crackers]

Ah! Now I know how to do it. :angel:

Actually, to follow on that thought.

First: DON'T cut off the nuts until after you've made extensive efforts to remove them. Soak with penetrating oil, use heat and hopefully have a socket with a good breaking bar. If you can get the nuts off, and the bolt itself refuses to move from the chassis, you can choose to leave the original bolts in place but once you cut off the nuts (as I did), you're stuck with getting them bolts out.

Second: Try to remove the bolts out with the firewall in place, even if you slide the firewall forward to heat things up, then slide it back for the assault with the hammer. This avoids falling into the trap I did when my son bent the passenger side bolt. Maybe it creates other traps :cool:

Third: Heat is your friend and while my propane torch did make a difference, it probably wasn't hot enough.

Fourth: Patience - this process took me a good three weeks or more (I'm too scared to look). There were times when I knew I wasn't actually doing anything because I was tired and despondent but if nothing else, getting everything good and hot and squirting on some penetrating oil will help for your next attempt.

Fifth: You can spring the firewall off one side while it's still stuck on the other side and the suggestion made by someone else to use the firewall as a long fulcrum to twist it on the bolt that's jammed is a good one.

WD40 vs the Acetone/ATF mix? I still don't know. The bolt finally came free using the home brew, but I'd also drilled out half the bolt by them, maybe it was going to come free. I wish I had some way to adequately test this this stuff but will continue to experiment with the home brew (no, I'm not convinced by the video because rusted nuts and bolts are very much a case by case exercise so I feel back to back comparisons are dodgy).

Tomorrow, a whole new insanity as I attempt to get the engine and gearbox out. If this takes three weeks, the whole thing's up for sale :mad:

[crackers]

Got the brake master cylinder and pedal, clutch pedal and drive shafts out.

Spirit not broken... yet :cool:

[crackers]

One problem with the clutch - a pin won't come out :eek:
Now where have I encountered this problem recently? :angel:

Of course, it may not be supposed to come out, but if not why did it have a split pin top and bottom? Be nice to get it out of the way come lifting the gearbox out time

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99993&stc=1&d=1443513195

Any thoughts?

[Brisruss]

Can you rotate the pin at all? It may have worn and developed a lip.

[crackers]

Can you rotate the pin at all? It may have worn and developed a lip.

So it's definitely supposed to come out. That's good. I'll try rotating it. One of the other bushes (forget which) was very badly worn so it wouldn't surprise me if this is. Thanks for the tip.

[JDNSW]

It is meant to come out. It is possibly bent (or bent and partly fractured) - this happens!

John

[crackers]

Thanks. That close to the clutch itself, I leery of too much force without knowing it's supposed to come out. Will try again tomorrow.

Now, the speedo cable. How is it connected to the gearbox? Those three little bolts I can see or is there a knurled end under all that grease and crap that I can't see?

And while I'm obsessing about tomorrow's disaster:
At this point, I'm thinking of pulling the gearbox and transfer case in one piece - this is because I've got a crane, all the body work is off so there's nothing in the way and the mounts to the chassis are off the transfer case. It'll be a case of hook up the crane, unbolt stuff, lift the box clear of the chassis, turn 90 degrees, push to the back of the shed and lower it gently onto a bench where it can live until I do something with it.

I get the 'drive a wedge of wood between the back of the engine and the cross member' bit, and it's not hard to use one of the rear casing bolts to mount a bracket at the back of the assembly for one chain from the crane, but what's the best way to support the front of the assembly? A strap under the bell housing? Fit another bracket to the front somewhere?

[JDNSW]

Thanks. That close to the clutch itself, I leery of too much force without knowing it's supposed to come out. Will try again tomorrow.

The clutch release shaft is quite solid and well supported, so you are unlikely to damage it.

Now, the speedo cable. How is it connected to the gearbox? Those three little bolts I can see or is there a knurled end under all that grease and crap that I can't see?

Speedo cable is attached by three tiny screws, presumably the bolts you can see. These retain a circular plate the cable is threaded through. Don't lose the screws - they are BA and may be hard to replace.

......
I get the 'drive a wedge of wood between the back of the engine and the cross member' bit, and it's not hard to use one of the rear casing bolts to mount a bracket at the back of the assembly for one chain from the crane, but what's the best way to support the front of the assembly? A strap under the bell housing? Fit another bracket to the front somewhere?

The gear lever bracket is suitable (easier with the gear lever removed and bracket bolted back on).

John

[crackers]

Thanks John. Hopefully I get to test it all out later today (life's decided to get in the way of Landy stuff :mad:)