Radar cruise control?

[GregMilner]

Have just driven down to Margaret River in the bride's new Mercedes C250 Estate and am absolutely smitten with the Distronic radar cruise. Even brakes to a complete stop all by itself. I want it for my L322, badly. Does anyone know if it can be retro-fitted?

[Graeme]

Doesn't your vehicle have adaptive CC?

[GregMilner]

Sadly not. At least as far as I can tell Graeme.

[Graeme]

I understood that ACC was standard on MY11/MY12. I'll have another look at some of the release reports I have.

FFRR people have enabled the 'Jag Criuse with Queue' feature in the CCF using their IID tool to get the 'stop then go again' feature.

Edit: No, it wasn't standard - had to be optioned.

[GregMilner]

I understood that ACC was standard on MY11/MY12. I'll have another look at some of the release reports I have.

FFRR people have enabled the 'Jag Criuse with Queue' feature in the CCF using their IID tool to get the 'stop then go again' feature.

Edit: No, it wasn't standard - had to be optioned.

So the question remains...I'm wondering if it can be retro-fitted? At $200-oddK it bloody well should've been standard.

[Graeme]

All the build specs that I've looked at in my hunt for a MY11/12 with e-diff only have 'speed control' specified and all the steering wheel pictures that I have retained do not have the extra 2 ACC buttons just behind the set/incr and decr CC buttons.

The L494 and therefore presumably the L404 has an ACC ecu incorporating the radar unit mounted just below/behind the front bumper. If the last of the L322s have basically the same wiring then there should be a connector in the vicinity, in which case I suspect only the ACC ecu, the different CC switch bank and CCF changes are required, including setting the Jag queue feature.

I'll see what I can discover about the ACC ecu/radar unit.

Edit: The L405's ACC ecu/radar unit costs nearly 900 GBP excl VAT.

[Graeme]

2 radar units and connecting harness approx 2000 GBP, ecu 160 GBP and steering wheel left switch bank 100 GBP if the wiring harness from the rear of the vehicle to the front is fitted (no specific body wiring harness is listed) plus enabling in the CCF. Approx $5K if buying the parts new but the expensive bits may be obtainable s/h.

Edit: It appears that the same radar units and ecu were fitted to the 2010-2013 RRS although mounting brackets are likely to be different.

The earlier RRS only has the primary radar unit mounted in the centre and the L404/L494 went back to a single centre-mounted radar unit. Hence I wouldn't bother with the secondary radar unit and connecting cable saving 800 GBP and mount the primary unit in the centre. The dual radar system reportedly doesn't detect motor bikes very well anyway.

[GregMilner]

2 radar units and connecting harness approx 2000 GBP, ecu 160 GBP and steering wheel left switch bank 100 GBP if the wiring harness from the rear of the vehicle to the front is fitted (no specific body wiring harness is listed) plus enabling in the CCF. Approx $5K if buying the parts new but the expensive bits may be obtainable s/h.

Edit: It appears that the same radar units and ecu were fitted to the 2010-2013 RRS although mounting brackets are likely to be different.

The earlier RRS only has the primary radar unit mounted in the centre and the L404/L494 went back to a single centre-mounted radar unit. Hence I wouldn't bother with the secondary radar unit and connecting cable saving 800 GBP and mount the primary unit in the centre. The dual radar system reportedly doesn't detect motor bikes very well anyway.

You're a veritable knowledge bank Graeme, thank you. Looks like an expensive luxury then. But could be an interesting project. I'll make some inquiries with the dealer as to whether, if I sourced the parts, they'd be able to fit it. (In the meantime, lovin' the Mercedes:)

[Graeme]

These are the part numbers from a 2012 version of Microcat:

ACC ecu LR025949 (mounts in RR of cargo area)
primary radar unit YDB500560 (left side)
mounting bracket LR012689
secondary radar unit LR029157 (right side)
mounting bracket LR022947
radar link harness LR023028
left steering wheel switch bank (vin BA349700+) LR029644

Confirmation of the existence of the connector for the primary radar unit presumably behind the left front bumper and the existence of the ecu connector in the RR would be my first step.

[GregMilner]

These are the part numbers from a 2012 version of Microcat:

ACC ecu LR025949 (mounts in RR of cargo area)
primary radar unit YDB500560 (left side)
mounting bracket LR012689
secondary radar unit LR029157 (right side)
mounting bracket LR022947
radar link harness LR023028
left steering wheel switch bank (vin BA349700+) LR029644

Confirmation of the existence of the connector for the primary radar unit presumably behind the left front bumper and the existence of the ecu connector in the RR would be my first step.

Brilliant, that gives me a start, many thanks Graeme!

[nat_89]

Its a bloody awesome thing alright!! A mate of mine is the sales manager at a local Mercedes Benz dealer and he called me up when the roadshow was in town said come take some stuff for a test drive!! Fist thing i took was the new S550 what a bloody hell gorgeous car and it had that cruise aswell as the system that steers you for 20 secs jeeze its hard to let it do it all but so amazing the tech!! It also takes the car to a complete stop then just tap the accelerator and off it goes again!! I wanted one immediately haha my bank says no $330k is a bit much :(

[Graeme]

Those part numbers are mostly for the 2010 model. The parts catalogue is incomplete for ACC for 2011/2012 models, only showing the secondary radar on the RHS along with the link harness and even that's not accessible via the graphical index. The 2011/12 owners handbook states that the radar unit is in the centre (the same position as for the L405 which uses a different radar unit part#) so the part numbers may not be applicable. A current catalogue should be referenced.

[harlie]

LR was really a bit slow to introduce this; in 2012 it was on a VW Golf with the optional drivers' convenience pack (or whatever they called it). Now Skoda (really just a Golf) have it on sub 30k cars - and it is excellent.

[nat_89]

LR was really a bit slow to introduce this; in 2012 it was on a VW Golf with the optional drivers' convenience pack (or whatever they called it). Now Skoda (really just a Golf) have it on sub 30k cars - and it is excellent.

It appears a lot of the higher end cars are lagging behind in so much technology!! Look at every model in the new Holden VF range comes with auto parking system not that many would use it but the new L494 RRS is like a bloody $3k option when every Commodore gets it some things just make me wonder.

[harlie]

yeah Nat, agree. VW introduced Radar cruise control on the Golf 7 in 2012. Self parking was introduced on the Golf 6 in 2009. Ok the VW Golf is not exactly the cheapest hatch available but it's far from an expensive car.

[nat_89]

yeah Nat, agree. VW introduced Radar cruise control on the Golf 7 in 2012. Self parking was introduced on the Golf 6 in 2009. Ok the VW Golf is not exactly the cheapest hatch available but it's far from an expensive car.

Yeah my thoughts exactly some options in the upper models need to be made standard its just silly that less expensive cars have so much stuff standard that the higher ones are charging big $$ for!! Im looking at the new Volvo XC90 brochure and some options are like $100 and $200 for that price why not make the bloody thing standard just seems a bit ridiculous in my eyes haha!!

[GregMilner]

Must admit, the radar cruise control on the Merc has really opened my eyes to the technology now available on ever-more-cheaply available cars. Just did a 1,000km round trip in the bride's C250 and it really was a relaxing drive, mainly because I didn't have to worry too much about drivers in front not knowing how to stick to a constant speed (even though most of them these days have cruise). The Merc would take care of it, right down to a full stop. And you can infinitely adjust the distance you want between you and the car in front, no matter what speed you're doing.
Being able to voice-enter destinations while on the move is another huge bonus of that Merc Command system. Works brilliantly. Far in advance of the clunky LR infotainment system.
On any future medium-long blacktop trips, I'll be sorely tempted to take the Merc if we're not towing anything or needing to lug a large load/people.
If radar cruise isn't currently standard on the L404/L495, it certainly should be.

(EDIT): Nothing at all beats the L322 for that king of the road feeling though:)

[nat_89]

Must admit, the radar cruise control on the Merc has really opened my eyes to the technology now available on ever-more-cheaply available cars. Just did a 1,000km round trip in the bride's C250 and it really was a relaxing drive, mainly because I didn't have to worry too much about drivers in front not knowing how to stick to a constant speed (even though most of them these days have cruise). The Merc would take care of it, right down to a full stop. And you can infinitely adjust the distance you want between you and the car in front, no matter what speed you're doing.
Being able to voice-enter destinations while on the move is another huge bonus of that Merc Command system. Works brilliantly. Far in advance of the clunky LR infotainment system.
On any future medium-long blacktop trips, I'll be sorely tempted to take the Merc if we're not towing anything or needing to lug a large load/people.
If radar cruise isn't currently standard on the L404/L495, it certainly should be.

(EDIT): Nothing at all beats the L322 for that king of the road feeling though:)

They certainly have some great systems in the Merc i do love the look of the new C Class its a beautiful shape really stunning!! Im just loving the new Volvo XC90 look at a few videos on that and you'll see the new infotainment system on that is just something else its really crazy so simple yet so effective!! Very much like an iPad in its simplicity but infinite controls for many things aswell. And your dead right its such a shame that LR doesn't have any decent sytems that are super hi tech I've always said if they can make something as unreal as an iPhone so small and slim how come they have a massive car and cant put a decent tech system in there!!

I must say I'm mildly jealous that you have an L322 as i can imagine they would be just the ultimate machine and i could only imagine how nice the L405 would be aswell!!

[Graeme]

I just bought an ACC unit for my RRV, listed as new for 166 GBP delivered. I concluded that only the right radar unit is used on the 4.4 which uses a conversion harness to connect to the main front harness so will need to buy that (13 GBP) and a bracket (another 13 GBP) and only the left switch bank (92 GBP). The new left switch will match the right switch bank as my vehicle was built with the latest design switches so no need to also buy a right switch. As I can now make CCF changes, enabling ACC (Jag mode) should get it working.

[PhilipA]

BUT does the Merc have a spare tyre?
Cruise pretty useless if you can't go on a long trip.
Regards Philip A

[CSBrisie]

Indeed- we also have a Benz C250 Estate with RCC....love it ....and "run flat tyres". Not so good. We have been waiting a few weeks for new tyres (old ones are worn and different profile between front and rear and directional too) but none in Australia (Contis) and local dealership has plenty of customers waiting and quite irritated 😐

[RR44TDV8]

Chris, you don't have to run the 'run-flats'........I have changed every car I have ever owned that had them standard over to normal tyres and just carry a can of emergency goop. There is no advantage in run flats.......you can't get one when you need it, they are exorbitantly priced, they wear early because of the super stiff sidewalls and are very dependant on constantly correct alignment and pressures.
Get rid of them and get your comfort back.......ever see run flats on Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.......nope. They're rubbish!

Resume normal programming now........I have finished:mad:
Grant

[PhilipA]

But make sure you keep the run flats and wheels somewhere.


My son's new wife tried to sell her very nice no immaculate as her dad is a detailer 2006 BMW 325i recently.
They tried first on Carsales and then left it with a trusted dealer friend to sell on consignment or to the trade.
They ended up getting only 7.5 K as all buyers particularly Trade wanted the original Msport wheels .
Go Figure!!

[Graeme]

My ACC radar uni, bracket, wiring harness and replacement left switch pack arrived today. I now know why the new/unused radar unit was so cheap - it's missing 1 locating grommet/cup. Not a problem though as I'll easily fabricate an alternate if a replacement cup can't be sourced.

[Graeme]

I finally got to remove the front bumper and fit the radar unit, for which the supplier had supplied the missing cup that he hadn't spotted was missing. The short link loom previously acquired connected the radar unit to a nearby connector that had been plugged into a dummy connector. CCF changes have been made and the new left steering wheel switch bank fitted but now need to calibrate the system. The instrument cluster ACC symbol is displayed on start-up but 'Forward alert not available' is displayed after start-up and 'Cruise not available' if any of the CC buttons are pressed. My Faultmate Extreme has a radar calibrate function so will see tomorrow what can be achieved.

[Graeme]

A slight hiccup - the radar unit is programmed for a Jag, not my RR and doesn't want to re-flash with LR firmware even though it is the same hardware. It was advertised as the correct LR part number (LR029157) but only labelled with a firmware assembly number (CX23-9G768-AD) which at the time I was not able to decode to spot the misrepresentation. Unless the failure to accept a re-flash can be overcome quickly, a replacement correct module (BH32-9G768-AD) will be acquired as used ones are readily available and as a bonus may not require calibration.

[Graeme]

Gap Diagnostics have provided a reflash that has converted the radar unit to the correct RR version and are working on a calibration option - great support!

[LRD414]

It's quite amazing how quickly Gap has been adding functionality to the iiD tool across the models.

Scott

[Graeme]

ACC activation has been put on hold for a few months due to the task of adding the radar calibration function requiring more work than expected plus other priorities so standard CC is being re-activated. Not only do the CCF parameters have to be reset to standard CC but the original steering wheel CC switch bank has to be refitted as the data format from the ACC switches is invalid for normal CC. Maintaining 100 kph at 1250 rpm without CC requires constant attention which detracts from the otherwise effortless driving so worth the effort to temporarily change back.

Update: It wasn't the ACC switch bank preventing standard CC from working, it was unexpected data being sent by the radar unit, overcome by removing the ACC fuse from the engine bay fuse panel.

[Graeme]

After only 1 month and amid their other work, Gap Diagnostics have provided a menu option to set the ACC radar unit to calibration mode. The ACC instrument cluster icon is now flashing, waiting for suitable road-side calibration conditions which I understand needs to be a series of metal posts. There are 2 bridges not too far away, the closest will be crossed on Tuesday but if that doesn't do the trick then the other, a narrow high-sided metal structure bridge without walk-ways should achieve calibration. Nearly done...

[peter g]

Hi Graeme,
Are you hoping to achieve autonomous braking (works when ACC is not set), as well as ACC.
Autonomous braking (AB) was not available when I purchased my July 2015 L405, however I did specify ACC which as all acknowledge is great. It seems now that so many cheaper cars have AB, and it is available on current L405's. I had thought that as my car is fitted with ACC, that AB might simply be a software upgrade, however JLR advise me that it is not possible, (or perhaps simply don't want to know about a one off).
Hence my question above, I would really love to have AB if it were possible. Good luck with your ACC project.
Cheers, Peter

[Graeme]

Several UK owners of late L322s have activated autonomous braking by enabling queue-assist in the CCF even though LR didn't have it as an option. I've set my CCF to have queue assist enabled primarily to get autonomous braking rather than just forward alert with brake pre-arming, although even just forward alert seems like a good feature. ACC in earlier L322 and L320 RRS apparently wasn't too great when approaching trucks in adjoining lanes or on bends but I've encountered no bad comments for MY10+ RR/RRS.

My ecm is back about 4 update levels so I would get that updated if any untoward behaviour occurs before backing away from queue-assist. I'll not be relying on autonomous braking in queues until satisfied that it's operating well and even then doubt that I'll use it.

If you have an iidtool or other tool capable of full ccf editing then give it a try. The L322 CCF has a few parameters that have to be changed but it would be good to know what particular options are set in the current L405. EG my ccf has multiple options (eg gen1/gen2/gen3) for 2 parameters. My ccf's queue assist parameters are:
collision mitigation by braking ( CMbB ) - enabled
speed control - ACC queue
speed control - adaptive speed control, stop and go
collision mitigation by braking - GEN1
forward collision warning - GEN1

My selection of GEN1 is because another L322 MY12 TDV8 with factory fitted ACC with queue assist subsequently enabled has GEN1 specified for those 2 parameters.

[Graeme]

ACC is now working. I noticed that the flashing icon had gone after exiting the local tip that has 2 sets of steel gateway posts, so stopped, locked then restarted. Indeed, queue-assist / stop-and-go now works although I didn't encounter a situation where another vehicle or an animal would be expected to trigger autonomous braking without CC enabled. I used the shortest gap setting for traffic and up to 80 kph and the longest setting for the open road with only a lone vehicle ahead.

An unexpected benefit is that the gearbox now down-shifts on inclines when CC set for 100 kph, whereas previously top gear was held until around 1000 rpm then the gearbox would downshift several gears. I suspect a bug in the ECM's standard CC logic.

[CSBrisie]

Graeme, I assume to enable autonomous braking I'd need to add some hardware at the front of the car as you have - is that correct? (I assume I cant just enable the automomous braking using my IID tool?
regards
Chris

[Graeme]

The radar unit, mounting bracket and short link harness will be required, as is required for ACC. I don't know if the steering wheel left switch bank with the ACC gap increase/decrease switches is a prerequisite to activating ACC, but as they're quite useful when using ACC then best to fit them anyway.
The radar unit is quite expensive new but can be purchased ex ebay UK quite cheaply, just be sure to purchase a unit with the correct number on the label to avoid having to get the correct firmware from Gap.

[LRD414]

Do you think it's feasible for D4?

Scott

[Graeme]

That would greatly depend on whether ACC was an option on the particular model D4.

[Brumby60]

Graeme

You stated you need the following bits to upgrade the manual cruise control

ACC ecu LR025949 (mounts in RR of cargo area)
primary radar unit YDB500560 (left side)
mounting bracket LR012689 - FOUND IT
secondary radar unit LR029157 (right side) GOT IT
mounting bracket LR022947 GOT IT
radar link harness LR023028 WAITING ON IT
left steering wheel switch bank (vin BA349700+) LR029644 GOT IT

Do we definitely need all of this. I was told we only need the bits I have or waiting on.

Regards
Craig

[Graeme]

The rear ecu, left radar unit and link harness to link the 2 radar units together are only for the 5.0 engine.

[Brumby60]

The rear ecu, left radar unit and link harness to link the 2 radar units together are only for the 5.0 engine.

Thank you

So I hope I have all the bits I need. Now just got to find someone who can help me fit it and commission it. Sydney/Southern Highlands/Wollongong - any thoughts?

[Graeme]

You will need to have an IIDtool or similar or know a workshop to update the CCF settings once fitted. The front bumper is straight-forward enough once you know where the screws and nuts are located. Fitting the steering wheel switch requires a hooked piece of wire to unclip the airbag. Align the radar unit as horizontal as you can and straight ahead knowing that you may have to R&R the bumper if an alignment adjustment is required. Mine must be slightly high as vehicles dropping over a slight crest can't be seen when I think they should still be visible but only a minor inconvenience.
Don't fit the fuse in the engine bay auxiliary fuse panel for the radar unit until the CCF has been changed as the ECM will see the unexpected can-bus messages and will make normal CC inoperative.

[Cambo_oldjaguar]

Now just got to find someone who can help me fit it and commission it. Sydney/Southern Highlands/Wollongong - any thoughts?
I can help you with that.

[Brumby60]

I can help you with that.

Thank you. I will be in touch when all the various bits arrive.

[Brumby60]

You will need to have an IIDtool or similar or know a workshop to update the CCF settings once fitted. The front bumper is straight-forward enough once you know where the screws and nuts are located. Fitting the steering wheel switch requires a hooked piece of wire to unclip the airbag. Align the radar unit as horizontal as you can and straight ahead knowing that you may have to R&R the bumper if an alignment adjustment is required. Mine must be slightly high as vehicles dropping over a slight crest can't be seen when I think they should still be visible but only a minor inconvenience.
Don't fit the fuse in the engine bay auxiliary fuse panel for the radar unit until the CCF has been changed as the ECM will see the unexpected can-bus messages and will make normal CC inoperative.

Brilliant. Thank ewe so much for your insight and help.