Smiths Heater substitute

[damiane]

At considerable risk, I realize, of being dragged out into the street, tied to a lamp post, tortured with blazing fire irons and branded a heretic prior to being executed by have a Land Rover gearbox dropped on my chest, I gird my loins to ask the following question:

Has anyone successfully installed a non-original non-Smiths non-round type heater on the firewall of a Series IIa essentially in the same position as the original non-functioning (ie leaking core) Smiths and plumbed into the same pipes (perhaps with adapters for a different pipe ID). In my defence - to the charge of heresy - I have investigated the replacement core option from the U.K. and from the U.S.A. but I could buy a couple of wreck Series for body parts, or even take a trip overseas, or do any amount of other things, for the price of that option only to have a heater that looks like the real McCoy. While I fully sympathise with those who undertake the full and entirely accurate resto that is not for me; maybe the next owner.

A mechanic acquaintance has suggested that some of the old-car restorers often use generic heater types in their restorations when the vehicle didn't actually have a heater in its original form. Any advice will be very gratefully received. You can only do so much with two jumpers and a wooly hat in the Victorian climate.

Damian

[crackers]

Never having done it nor knowing what these heaters look like inside, is it worth taking the unit to a radiator specialist to see if they can do something with the core?
Alternatively, can you fit some different works inside while retaining the casing so that it at least looks right.

[Sitec]

There is a way around this... If the outer core leaks but remains in tact, with a bit of careful work you can remove the rest of the core and replace it with micro bore copper pipe rolled around something the same diameter as the original center gap. Then slide the outer core back over the new center and rebuild. I've not done it, but have seen it done....

[damiane]

Never having done it nor knowing what these heaters look like inside, is it worth taking the unit to a radiator specialist to see if they can do something with the core?
Alternatively, can you fit some different works inside while retaining the casing so that it at least looks right.

Crackers,

Thanks. But everyone says these cores are not repairable once they go. The crowd in the U.K. do a replacement core but the cost is astronomical.

[crackers]

Bummer.
Travel rugs work well :D

[gromit]

Can't remember where I found this so apologies for not acknowledging the source.

Smiths heater repair, fiddly and needs some soldering skills & lots of patience.


Colin

[crackers]

Man, that's a wet winter's evening in front of tele job isn't it. Patience and lock up the scotch bottle before you start. Be satisfying to get it all working though.

[JDNSW]

Similar heaters that would do in the Landrover were fitted to many cars in the days before heaters became common (for example, heaters were not standard in Holdens until the late sixties). There should be a few of these still about, and places to look would be long established wreckers, swap meets, garage sales etc.

Very few Landrovers came from the factory with heaters in Australia prior to Series 3, and where ordered by owners would most likely have been fitted by the dealer, who would have used whatever type of heater was available - which would have only sometimes been a Smiths, although some were very similar, some a bit different, some quite different.

John

[damiane]

Can't remember where I found this so apologies for not acknowledging the source.

Smiths heater repair, fiddly and needs some soldering skills & lots of patience.


Colin

Grief,

Thanks for taking the trouble to find this but really I think I would have more chance of successfully operating on the human brain than to perform that series of high temperature soldering tasks let alone getting copper tubing to cut and bend in all the right places. I am only too willing to admit that I have many inadequacies, these two being only part of that giant kaleidoscope of shortcomings.

Damian

[Don 130]

How badly do you want heat, and how much heat. One of these (http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproducts.asp'sg=1&pgCode=083&sgName=Electrical&pgName=Heaters+%26+Electrical+Fans&agCode=0205&agName=Circular+Heaters) will do for heat, or a diesel fired webasto/ eberspacher type if you want lots of heat

[digger]

would a replacement interior be possible...

seems if this fitted it would be great... and I havent looked long...


cheers

[gromit]

How badly do you want heat, and how much heat. One of these (http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproducts.asp'sg=1&pgCode=083&sgName=Electrical&pgName=Heaters+%26+Electrical+Fans&agCode=0205&agName=Circular+Heaters) will do for heat, or a diesel fired webasto/ eberspacher type if you want lots of heat

Those Clayton heaters look the business but at $600 plus freight :o that's more than some of my Land Rovers cost.

I have a small round heater that came off a Series II, from memory its a Japanese unit (I'll have to dig it out).
As John already mentioned, swap meets, trash & treasure markets etc. might turn something up.

Clayton details here Clayton Climate Control for all your Heating & Air Conditioning - Classic 'Circular' Heaters (http://www.claytoncc.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23)
I'll have to rely on the heat coming through the floor in the meantime......

Colin

[digger]

would a replacement interior be possible...

seems if this fitted it would be great... and I havent looked long...

free shipping 12/24V 200W car heater fan warm air conditioner heating accessories defroster AUTO defogging windows cigarette-in Heating & Fans from Automobiles & Motorcycles on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/free-shipping-12-24V-200W-car-heater-fan-warm-air-conditioner-heating-accessories-defroster-AUTO-defogging/1465237472.html)


cheers

[damiane]

Those Clayton heaters look the business but at $600 plus freight :o that's more than some of my Land Rovers cost.

I have a small round heater that came off a Series II, from memory its a Japanese unit (I'll have to dig it out).
As John already mentioned, swap meets, trash & treasure markets etc. might turn something up.

Clayton details here Clayton Climate Control for all your Heating & Air Conditioning - Classic 'Circular' Heaters (http://www.claytoncc.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23)
I'll have to rely on the heat coming through the floor in the meantime......

Colin

Yes Colin never understood why they put the heater and the exhaust on the same side. The passenger gets the best of all worlds at least in winter.

[bee utey]

Have you looked on ebay? There's this one:

Smiths Beehive Heater Fits FX FJ FE FB EK EJ EH Holden Ford Hotrod Ratrod | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SMITHS-BEEHIVE-HEATER-FITS-FX-FJ-FE-FC-FB-EK-EJ-EH-HOLDEN-FORD-HOTROD-RATROD-/391156584625?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item5b12bfd0b1)

[digger]

Round heater core for Morris Minor, Morgan, Range Rover (http://classicfordradiator.com/morrisminormorganrangeroverroundheatercore.aspx)

this is new heater coil ...ouch!!

[JDNSW]

Yes Colin never understood why they put the heater and the exhaust on the same side. The passenger gets the best of all worlds at least in winter.

In 1948 only luxury cars had heaters, so the heater was an afterthought. It is unlikely that more than a tiny proportion of Landrovers before Series 3 were delivered fitted with a heater*. English engines were frequently designed with the exhaust on the left, possibly to avoid conflict between underfloor pedal mechanism and the exhaust, although the choice often seems to have been a random choice by the designer.

While the original Landrover engine was designed before the Landrover was even thought of, it is likely that the new engine introduced for the Series 2 had the exhaust on the same side to minimise chassis redesign.

*the first two Landrovers I owned, from 1956 and 1958 (bought by me in 1963 and 1964), both had heaters from new as they were delivered to SMHEA. The next one, however, a 1961 model (bought 1966), was not fitted with one, a deficiency I remedied shortly after driving through snow on my way from the Simpson to Sydney.

John

[Dark61]

there was an article on a bloke in UK that does up old ones - LRO Intl Spring Issue 5.


You can get that "bendy" copper pipe stuff as well if it makes the task easier.


cheers,
D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

There was an ex-NSW Forestry 107 or 109 ute that had an odd heater. It was a length of exhaust pipe fitted inside the radiator fan shroud that ran back through the firewall to supply warm air from the radiator to inside the cab.

The Canadians have a local design Kodiac heater for Series 1 and 2 Land Rovers. In a country where a heater is essential they really know what's needed.

You can see some good details of one on TeriAnn Wakeman's Expedition Land Rover site: Series Land Rover Kodiak heaters (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/Kodiak_heater.htm)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1046.jpg

[damiane]

There was an ex-NSW Forestry 107 or 109 ute that had an odd heater. It was a length of exhaust pipe fitted inside the radiator fan shroud that ran back through the firewall to supply warm air from the radiator to inside the cab.

The Canadians have a local design Kodiac heater for Series 1 and 2 Land Rovers. In a country where a heater is essential they really know what's needed.

You can see some good details of one on TeriAnn Wakeman's Expedition Land Rover site: Series Land Rover Kodiak heaters (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/Kodiak_heater.htm)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1046.jpg


It looks like it would melt the Alaskan tundra!!

[damiane]

Have you looked on ebay? There's this one:

Smiths Beehive Heater Fits FX FJ FE FB EK EJ EH Holden Ford Hotrod Ratrod | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SMITHS-BEEHIVE-HEATER-FITS-FX-FJ-FE-FC-FB-EK-EJ-EH-HOLDEN-FORD-HOTROD-RATROD-/391156584625?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item5b12bfd0b1)



That's the sort of thing I'm looking for. I'll see if I can track down data on pipe sizes.

[damiane]

Round heater core for Morris Minor, Morgan, Range Rover (http://classicfordradiator.com/morrisminormorganrangeroverroundheatercore.aspx)

this is new heater coil ...ouch!!

Ouch is right. I wasn't joking about costing your first-born grandchild was I?

[damiane]

there was an article on a bloke in UK that does up old ones - LRO Intl Spring Issue 5.


You can get that "bendy" copper pipe stuff as well if it makes the task easier.


cheers,
D

Was there any business address/website or email given for the bloke in the U.K. D?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1046.jpg
It looks like it would melt the Alaskan tundra!!
You may be correct, perhaps Series 2 Land Rovers are the reason for the loss of Arctic sea ice in the last few years? :D

[Dark61]

I had the floor up the other day - was leaning in through the passenger door with the motor running - suddenly noticed it was getting a bit warm! I'd like to think you could get some heat from the exhaust into the cab somehow - (other than removing the floor) but I guess any potential leak would be hazardous. The pipe from the radiator sounds interesting. How well does the heat exchange dissipate the heat I wonder - the plumbing doesn't look so bad - I wonder what difference if you just had the core and the fan?
cheers,
D

[gromit]

You could probably rig something up with a heater matrix, fan & motor from a Series III.

Here is what looks like a home made job in my Series I. No nameplate, square matrix in the back. Judging by all the other mods on this vehicle home made is a distinct possibility unless someone recognises the manufacturer ? Previous owner has used silicone to help hold the fan motor in position !

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/278.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/cradley/media/Spare%20parts/DSCN3522_zpsetz8rzrg.jpg.html)


I have two made by Toa Denso Co (Type TDH 12), both were removed from Series II's. Smaller diameter than the Smiths.
One has a Date of '48 S' whether that's a code or the year I don't know

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/279.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/cradley/media/Spare%20parts/DSCN3521_zpsysiqva7c.jpg.html)


Finally a Smiths. Matrix OK but needs some de-rusting and new clips made for the doors.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1045.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/cradley/media/Spare%20parts/DSCN3524_zpsuzfvffrq.jpg.html)

I guess that Toa Denso was part of Nippon Denso ? Need to do some research on that though.


Colin

[Jeff]

Here is what looks like a home made job in my Series I. No nameplate, square matrix in the back. Judging by all the other mods on this vehicle home made is a distinct possibility unless someone recognises the manufacturer ? Previous owner has used silicone to help hold the fan motor in position !

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/278.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/cradley/media/Spare%20parts/DSCN3522_zpsetz8rzrg.jpg.html)

Home made sounds right. Isn't that a Nasco speaker grille on the front?

Jeff

:rocket:

[gromit]

Home made sounds right. Isn't that a Nasco speaker grille on the front?

Jeff


Jeff,
That was the only part that looked as though it might be mass produced.

It puts out a fair amount of heat but doesn't have demister connections.

I also need to replace the water on/off valve on the block because the lever has been lost and it's stuck in the open position, it's windows & vents open in the summer.......

Colin

[bee utey]

Home made sounds right. Isn't that a Nasco speaker grille on the front?

Jeff

:rocket:
I pulled a grille just like that off a junked commercial tumble dryer, it floated around home for years (it just looked sooo useful) until it finally went to the scrappie during the last clean up.

[Dark61]

Was there any business address/website or email given for the bloke in the U.K. D?


Chris Parker (01535 610083) phone


carpcrew@yahoo.co.uk


ebay = carpcrew_123


cheers,
D