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jik22
31st May 2015, 08:23 PM
Hoping someone can help with this, as am at the end of my tether.

My 94 Defender has decided it no longer wants to run....happened on a trip up North (as is always the case), just after a full throttle run in fourth up a hill overtaking a roadtrain. Started to lose all power, and eventually shuddered to a halt, and whilst it would restart OK, won't rev cleanly and then idles roughly often cutting out after being held at revs until the problem occurs.

Have had a similar problem before, which stayed for a few weeks, was very intermittent and then cleared itself. Prior to that, similar fault a few years back where as part of the troubleshooting, the ignition switch, fuel cutoff solenoid, lift pump and eventually the injector pump (the actual cause back then) were all replaced, just to give some history. Car would have done only 20-30k since then, despite the time lapsed, as it isn't a daily driver.

So far for this little adventure, we have tried the following:

New fuel filter from the carried spares
Checked airflow by removing filter (despite being sure it was a fuel starvation issue)
Hotwired fuel cutoff solenoid
Removed and cleaned sediment filter bowl and checked seal
Made sure fuel was in fuel filter straight after problem occured.
Replaced the suspect rubber hose end at the wastegate which we thought might have been leaking and hence potentially stopping the pump supplying more fuel under boost...but likely to have been clutching at straws and not reallt sure this woudl manifest itself at 1500-2000 revs whilst stationary!

It will start and idle OK, seemingly forever, but as soon as you hold it at revs it will then drop revs off regardless of throttle opening, and then sometimes idle roughly before recovering, but also often stall.

Since playing with it, we now also have a new issue.....namely that we are no longer getting fuel into the filter in the engine bay. Manually working the lift pump seems to do nothing, and there isn't much resistance on the lever when we do it manually. Even crankiing it for extended periods does nothing...except kill the starting battery so I no longer have that option.

So, first question is any ideas as to the original issue?

Second question is perhaps why are we not getting fuel to the filter now whereas we were?

Lastly, I have read many threads on here saying the 300TDi's don't need the lift pump, and others saying they do....but even if knackered (Despite not having had much use) could they cause this symptom?

If it wasn't for the fact the car and myself are 400k's from home, I'd have grabbed an electric one having read a thread on here....but need to get myself home first, and the car maybe later via trailer if there is no magical fix I have missed in response to this post!

Alternatively, if anyone knows a decent Landrover mechanic somewhere between Dongara and Geraldton, PM me please, as it'll be far easier to pay him to fix it at my mates place nextweek, and I'll pick it up next weeiend!! :)

Thanks!

loanrangie
31st May 2015, 08:55 PM
It does sound like lift pump to or delaminated intake hose.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

rangieman
31st May 2015, 09:10 PM
It does sound like lift pump to or delaminated intake hose.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

Mmmm lift pump x2;)

PAT303
31st May 2015, 09:10 PM
Have you cleaned the water trap?. Pat

Sly
31st May 2015, 09:21 PM
Local landy specialist in gero use to be Wyatts Automotive. I also carry a 12 volt pump with hose to get the 130 home when the lift fails.

justinc
31st May 2015, 09:25 PM
It certainly sounds like you have air entering the fuel system. Look very carefully for rubbed through fuel lines especially where they come up to the engine bay and to the lift pump. They are close to lots of sharp edges and especially where they travel along under the air cleaner bracket. A failed lift pump diaphragm can also introduce air into the system too.

101 Ron
31st May 2015, 09:43 PM
My TDI 130 used to give me trouble as described.
The lift pumps are nothing flash and the slightest problem will cause fuel starvation .
I fitted a small 12 volt cube type electric pump just after the water separator near the LHS rear wheel.
It does 2 things.
Will prime the system if changing fuel filters without stuffing around doing it by hand.
Will pressurise the system from the electric pump forward so a air leak will not be a air leak, but a fuel leak which you will see and not affect engine operation.
The electric pump asists the mechanical pump.........remembering the mechanical pumps......especially some replacement ones are barely up to the job.
Fitting a electric lift pump from the water separator is not a very hard job.
The hardest part is running the wiring.
One down fall was the location of the electric pump was a wet one so my electric pump would have to be replaced every now and then.

Blknight.aus
31st May 2015, 09:48 PM
use a 12v lift pump and bodge on a jerry of clean fuel to the return and supply lines on the injector pump.

dont forget to pull of the suppy line banjo on the injector pump and blow it out.

you might find its snot build up in that line.

if that works then you have a blockage in the supply line from tank to pump or its drawing air but I suspect blockage.

if that doesnt work.

pul the cut solenoid out and remove the plunger reassemble aand try again. if that works your having a failure of the solenoid or a sticking pin. dont orget to look at the pin for fine swarf.

if that didnt work you need to pull the top plate off of the pump and inspect the insides for contamination.

I have seen the boost compensator pin stick in the no fuel position and with the main fuel screw set too low there wasnt enough injection to keep it running. but that doesnt seem to fit all your faults.

whyatts
31st May 2015, 10:02 PM
Hi Jeff, my name is Shane. I am from Whyatt's in Geraldton.
I just wanted to let you know that we keep the ERR5057 Lift pump in stock as well as the associated parts needed to carry out the repair. (Gasket, Nuts & Olives)

While we don't have any mechanics available until Tuesday, I can assist with supplying you the part after hours if needed.

I check the AULRO forum from time to time, although contacting our Facebook page may be faster - Just send me a message.

Kind regards,
Shane.

jik22
1st June 2015, 09:07 AM
Thanks guys....off home this morning by other means, and for the relatively low cost I think I'll order a 12v pump for the spares kit and for the testing as suggested, and a new lift pump too as might as well fit one while playing with fuel lines.

Out of interest, if I'd had a 12v pump, would the best bet to have been out it in place of the lift pump and leave that out of circuit, or put it at the back to push fuel to it, whilst keeping it (or a working one!!) installed? Just thinking of a more permanent fix, and also having connecting pipes made up for troubleshooting while I'm at it, as the lift pump seems to use threaded connectors, rather than just fuel hose and hose clips, despite (I assume) being a very low pressure line, based on 7psi electric pump comments in other threads.

Will also follow up with Whyatts (Public holiday in WA today, not sure about Nationally) Tuesday and see if they or someone even more local can do the work, or if I need to come back with a mate and do it.

Luckily, I don't need the car...unluckily, I have to be in Perth tonight and have a full week of work from tomorrow.

PAT303
1st June 2015, 11:06 AM
Hi Jeff, my name is Shane. I am from Whyatt's in Geraldton.
I just wanted to let you know that we keep the ERR5057 Lift pump in stock as well as the associated parts needed to carry out the repair. (Gasket, Nuts & Olives)

While we don't have any mechanics available until Tuesday, I can assist with supplying you the part after hours if needed.

I check the AULRO forum from time to time, although contacting our Facebook page may be faster - Just send me a message.

Kind regards,
Shane.

Shane,we didn't meet at Jurien Bay a while back?,I remember talking to an owner of a bright yellow 130. Pat

jik22
1st June 2015, 03:44 PM
Right, back home, minus car! Going to call Whyatts tomorrow and get a new pump, and a mate is hopefully going to collect and fit it and then use my car to get himself to Perth, doing us both a favour of sorts!! Fingers crossed that's actually the problem, or he's walking and I still have an issue!!

Just a slight aside....does anyone know which model Facet electronic pump is most suited, and where best to source for prompt mail order delivery? The auction link in the old thread has long since expired, and the PDF had two models shown, neither of which I can find with a search.

Thanks!

PAT303
1st June 2015, 07:01 PM
Just replace the lift pump with another using TWO gaskets,they last a long time and if UK sourced are very cheap,make sure Whyatts fit TWO gaskets. Pat

schuy1
1st June 2015, 08:27 PM
I agree with check the sedimentater at the tank, mine did the same thing once and it was gunk blocking the outlet pipe.. would idle until the cows come home but as soon as you went for 2nd it would die. Drove me mad for a while, just be sure to clean UPunder the housing where the outlets are.
Cheers Scott

101 Ron
1st June 2015, 08:37 PM
Facet pump needed is the same used for a old type carburettor car 3 to 4 psi.........advailible from any after market parts supplier if you want to go that way and use it as a back up or for priming.

130camper
2nd June 2015, 04:14 AM
Pat303, I see that you recommend using two gaskets when fitting the lift pump on the 300 Tdi.


Could you please explain the reason.


Just for interest I have done what a few owners have done and fitted a renewable filter/glass bowl unit in place of the sediment unit at the tank.

PAT303
2nd June 2015, 11:36 AM
The reason the pumps fail is because the lever runs past the cam so it over strokes causing it to fail,well thats the theory,owners found by fitting two gaskets that moved it out enough to stop it happening.I used a beer carton gasket the first time,quite thick material and the pump lasted 10 years. Pat

jik22
2nd June 2015, 01:02 PM
Just for interest I have done what a few owners have done and fitted a renewable filter/glass bowl unit in place of the sediment unit at the tank.

I might do this whilst fitting an electronic pump at the back to make airleaks far more easily identifiable fuel leaks....do you have a link for what you used?

Also, is it safe to use rubber fuel hose with hose clips for plumbing in the pump and new filter, rather than the union arrangement with olives like the lift pump does?

PAT303
2nd June 2015, 07:15 PM
Seriously I would leave it alone,Tdi's have been around for 2 decades using the lift pump set-up,I'd replace it and drive away. Pat

weeds
2nd June 2015, 07:28 PM
I had the same problem last year......had the smallest pin hole the the hard plastic fuel hose. No fuel leaked out the hole but it sucked enough air to give me issue.......

jik22
3rd June 2015, 08:29 PM
New lift pump fitted today by a mate, and seemingly sorted. Car is coming down to Perth tomorrow, hopefully.....just in time to go shooting at the weekend, which was the real worry!! :D

Anyway, thanks to all who offered help, and Shane from Whyatts for the PM's over the Long Weekend and sorting the new pump first thing Tuesday.