Synthetic winch rope - life span

[86mud]

Hi all

I have had my winch rope for about 5 years. Used it in anger maybe 10 times. Otherwise it just sits on the winch. There is no direct sunlight on it only the light via the opening of the hawse.

It is not frayed or damaged.

Can I still trust it?

[Tombie]

I still use mine... Its 15 years old :cool: Having said that - I wouldn't be hanging the vehicle off of anything by its own though...

And I do carry a replacement roll :)

[Hamish3300]

The question that I would ask then is what is trust worth? A new roll of dyneema is a couple of hundred dollars. What is peace of mind worth?

You could perhaps try it out with a load, but not a critical one and see if it breaks.

I'd rather just spend the few hundred and buy new rope and have peace of mind.

....just some thoughts for you.

[Tombie]

The question that I would ask then is what is trust worth? A new roll of dyneema is a couple of hundred dollars. What is peace of mind worth?

You could perhaps try it out with a load, but not a critical one and see if it breaks.

I'd rather just spend the few hundred and buy new rope and have peace of mind.

....just some thoughts for you.

Brand new rope has broken before...

As has new rope that accidentally scraped a rock during a recovery..

No peace of mind in new... Peace of mind comes from equipment checks and care when in use..

[vnx205]

Is UV light a big killer of synthetic rope?

[Tank]

Yes, mooring lines for ships are coloured orange, which offers UV protection, for how long I don't know, an email to the manufacturer should reveal how long before UV degradation is a concern, Regards Frank.



Is UV light a big killer of synthetic rope?

[86mud]

So where is the best place to by replacement rope? ARB shop? ebay?

I guess I could shout the truck some new rope :D

[weeds]

I brought mine at dobinsons springs......it was on special at the time and seemed good value for money.

I did a thread ages ago in the recovery section........about selecting rope, than didn't follow my own research.

[cuppabillytea]

Hi all

I have had my winch rope for about 5 years. Used it in anger maybe 10 times. Otherwise it just sits on the winch. There is no direct sunlight on it only the light via the opening of the hawse.

It is not frayed or damaged.

Can I still trust it?
If it is not frayed, discoloured, or oily, it should be fine. Sun, oil and grit will damage your rope and it is not as strong when wet but you can't do much about that.
Cheers Billy.
PS. I've been mooring ships for 15 years and I haven't seen an orange line yet. The lines which are usually supplied for winches are very strong but they have poor sheer strength so are easily cut.

[Tank]

Well I worked in shipbuilding and repair for over 20 years and have seen every colour including orange mooring lines, Regards Frank.



If it is not frayed, discoloured, or oily, it should be fine. Sun, oil and grit will damage your rope and it is not as strong when wet but you can't do much about that.
Cheers Billy.
PS. I've been mooring ships for 15 years and I haven't seen an orange line yet. The lines which are usually supplied for winches are very strong but they have poor sheer strength so are easily cut.

[Bushie]

Well I worked in shipbuilding and repair for over 20 years and have never seen anything but orange mooring lines, Regards Frank.

Quick flick through google images suggests things have changed Frank.


Martyn

[Tank]

Same "quick flick" shows numerous orange mooring lines, having trouble loading pic from my Gallery (medium image icon seems to be missing), Regards Frank.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/784.jpg







Quick flick through google images suggests things have changed Frank.


Martyn

[KzBushy049]

I'm in the State Emergency Services our rope has a life span of 10 years and then must be thrown out regardless of condition. I hate it as it seems wasteful but them the rules

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using AULRO mobile app

[Blknight.aus]

one of the inspection criterea fo synth slings and lines is fadbing of the rope. If the rope is not coloured evenly or is excessively faded its to be turfed.

[cuppabillytea]

Well I worked in shipbuilding and repair for over 20 years and have seen every colour including orange mooring lines, Regards Frank.
I don't doubt you Frank. I've seen every colour line as well I just haven't seen an orange Ship's Mooring line. Neither have I heard of any line made a specific colour to be UV proof. In the Spectrum, Orange is closer to Infra red than it is to Ultra Violet, so it would be more likely to absorb UV than reflect it.
Ships, especially Tankers, are beginning to use the new super lines which come in different colours, mostly blue. At 20 mill they are good for more than 60 Ton. They also last for many years, mooring after mooring. The same stuff is used for the winch ropes you can buy today. They are not easily cut,(I stated earlier that they were. That was wrong.) as I found out when I wrapped one around my prop. Keep it clean and it should last a long time. UHMWP fibre rope is highly resistant but not impervious to all of the nasties that affect synthetic fibres.
Cheers Billy.
Some pics of a typical day at the office.

[cuppabillytea]

Sorry Frank. This ship came in at 18:00 Hrs 10/6/15., IE earlier this evening, sporting brand new head lines.

[vnx205]

They say it takes a big man to admit he was wrong.

In that case it probably takes an even bigger man to post the evidence that shows he was wrong.

Well done! It's good to see that you are more interested in the truth than in merely winning an argument.

[cuppabillytea]

Thanks vnx205. My Dad used to say "You're not often right Billy, but your wrong this time."

[Dopey]

I don't doubt you Frank. I've seen every colour line as well I just haven't seen an orange Ship's Mooring line. Neither have I heard of any line made a specific colour to be UV proof. In the Spectrum, Orange is closer to Infra red than it is to Ultra Violet, so it would be more likely to absorb UV than reflect it.
Ships, especially Tankers, are beginning to use the new super lines which come in different colours, mostly blue. At 20 mill they are good for more than 60 Ton. They also last for many years, mooring after mooring. The same stuff is used for the winch ropes you can buy today. They are not easily cut,(I stated earlier that they were. That was wrong.) as I found out when I wrapped one around my prop. Keep it clean and it should last a long time. UHMWP fibre rope is highly resistant but not impervious to all of the nasties that affect synthetic fibres.
Cheers Billy.
Some pics of a typical day at the office.

G'day, cuppabillytea,
Sort of off topic, but your tug pictures look like they are of one of the former Harbour Lighterage tugs?
Leveret or Fern Bay?
I grew up playing on them and later working on them, I knew them from the mid 70's until the Harbour Lighterage business was shut down and the tugs sold off at auction.

I have worked on most of them...
leveret, Fern Bay, Betts Bay, White Bay, Utah, Sydport, Throsby, George H Weyerhauser, Mort Bay, Seaport, Van, Valiant, and many others over the years.

But when the company shut down I went overseas to the UK to work at Land Rover and my Life then took a different direction......

My father also spent 37 years working for HL on the same tugs and he was the last employee when the company finally shut.

Regards,
Mike.

[cuppabillytea]

G'day Mike.
We are talking here about Salvage and recovery, if just a slightly wetter version and I think this thread had fizzled anyway.
The pictures are actually from the Batlow an ex Stannards work boat/crew launch/tug. Single screw 6 cil Turbo Cummins.
Fern Bay and Leveret are now with Polaris Marine in Rozelle Bay, I worked on both of them for 4 years. Lots of sea tows on both. Fern Bay had no towing winch in those days, so hauling in 200 M of line then shackle, wire and bridle was some task. I was on Leveret in Brisbane, September 11 2001, so will never forget that.
Betts Bay is in New Castle owned by Billy Johnson. Nautilus wet to NZ was sunk by its tow, raised and I think,(Don't quote me.) is still operating in Dunedin. Sydport was restored and is or was moored off Strides old yard in Balmain Near Dawn Frazer Baths. The rest I've lost touch with.
Some Heritage you have. You might remember Roger Forster. He works with us.
PM me if you'd like a Beer/coffee and chat.

Cheers Billy.

[Redback]

Is there any benefit in Plasma over Dyneema, apart from price.

Baz.

[Tank]

90@ and cupabillytea, feels like I should know you two, I was born in Balmain, lived in Fitzroy Ave. next to Dawn Fraser pool (also worked there in Summer).
I have worked at Howard Smiths, Storey and Keers and Cockatoo Island, sadly all gone now, also Garden Island, my mate Michael Ryan worked at Sydney Ferries for years, I always wanted to get a job on the Tugs, but I believe the waiting list was years long, my name was Frank Gibson back then, changed it for family reasons 30 years back.
If you ever have a reunion let me know would be interesting to meet up, Regards Frank.









G'day, cuppabillytea,
Sort of off topic, but your tug pictures look like they are of one of the former Harbour Lighterage tugs?
Leveret or Fern Bay?
I grew up playing on them and later working on them, I knew them from the mid 70's until the Harbour Lighterage business was shut down and the tugs sold off at auction.

I have worked on most of them...
leveret, Fern Bay, Betts Bay, White Bay, Utah, Sydport, Throsby, George H Weyerhauser, Mort Bay, Seaport, Van, Valiant, and many others over the years.

But when the company shut down I went overseas to the UK to work at Land Rover and my Life then took a different direction......

My father also spent 37 years working for HL on the same tugs and he was the last employee when the company finally shut.

Regards,
Mike.

[cuppabillytea]

Yep.I lived at 9 Lookes ave Balmain East. Billy Toohey. Haven't Changed my name Yet. Phone: 0419608221.

[cuppabillytea]

Is there any benefit in Plasma over Dyneema, apart from price.

Baz.
Hi Baz. Both these ropes have similar qualities. Plasma has better strength and performance but has a lower fiction coefficient than some (not all) Dyneema ropes. So if you want a straight replacement for steel, go Plasma. If you want something you can tie or hitch with occasionally, go Dyneema. Both have low recoil, so are safer than wire, but if you use them in conjunction with a sling tree protector or messenger etc, the recoil will depend on the elasticity of those things.
Tip. On Sips, to prevent chafing they run the line through a section of off cut fire hose. This would be a good idea for use in recovery because the fire hose would act as a recoil damper. I haven't tried this because I don't have a winch, but you could stitch a weight bag to each end of the section of fire hose to hold it in position.

[Tombie]

Hi Baz. Both these ropes have similar qualities. Plasma has better strength and performance but has a lower fiction coefficient than some (not all) Dyneema ropes. So if you want a straight replacement for steel, go Plasma. If you want something you can tie or hitch with occasionally, go Dyneema. Both have low recoil, so are safer than wire, but if you use them in conjunction with a sling tree protector or messenger etc, the recoil will depend on the elasticity of those things.
Tip. On Sips, to prevent chafing they run the line through a section of off cut fire hose. This would be a good idea for use in recovery because the fire hose would act as a recoil damper. I haven't tried this because I don't have a winch, but you could stitch a weight bag to each end of the section of fire hose to hold it in position.

Having been 'whipped' by Dyneema - aside from an eye strike (I always wear glasses) - its not much worse than a "tea towel whip"...

Dyneema and a sleeve that is run out with the rope and positioned where any abrasive wear can occur is fine... Been running Dyneema since my Plasma broke years ago and havent had a problem.

[cuppabillytea]

I'm sure Dyneema is fine for the job Tombie. The two products are almost the same. The only difference is in the method of producing the fibre. Dyneema lends itsef more to a variety of uses. Plasma is stronger but has a lower friction coefficient, which means that splicing eyes and thimbles etc into it is difficult and could create weak points. I have lots of experience in Marine Recovery but absolutely none in vehicle recovery (using gear that is) Neither have I handled either of these two products in any application other than Ship Assist. So I can only comment on the qualities of the materials.
Cheers Billy.

[Tombie]

Agree. All I was saying is that I see no gain between the 2...

Dyneema is well up to the task if treated with respect.

[cuppabillytea]

Neither do I. It's a matter for personal preference. I don't know which one I would choose myself. I do know I have a hatred for steel rope but thats just me.
I did want to highlight though, that even if there is no backlash in a winch rope backlash can still come from the gear you might be using in conjunction with it.
Cheers Billy.

[Redback]

Thanks Billy, I have Dyneema on the current winch and was thinking I might replace it, I need a more compact winch extension also, so might go plasma for the winch extension and Dyneema to replace the winch rope.

By the way, I worked as a rigger at Stewart & Llyods and BHP Newcastle in the early 70s, then AIS Wollongong as an overhead Crane Driver, so I have a small rigging background, about 6 or 7yrs, just a pup in terms of experience.

Baz.

[cuppabillytea]

Cheers Baz. Technology is moving so fast in the synthetic fibre field that it makes pups of all of us. I try to keep up but I'm definitely no genius. I think I'd better get myself a winch so that I can appreciate the differences between land and Marine applications.
I think Tombie deserves a big thanks for his input in this thread.
Cheers Billy.

[Hogarthde]

a big thanks to all you old riggers , dogmen, winch-mancage,and lineboat men.

sensible firsthand experience generated,opinion, is much appreciated.

[loanrangie]

a big thanks to all you old riggers , dogmen, winch-mancage,and lineboat men.

sensible firsthand experience generated,opinion, is much appreciated.

You left out the winch wenches, winch bitches etc :D.

[Hogarthde]

i also forgot log haulers, the old Dad had one just after the War, REO truck engine,half mile of wire rope and a Clydesdale mare to drag the rope, logshoe andstrops and blocks back down to the river,

d'ont believe it was very technical though.