Discovery Sport not worthy of Land Rover name

[MrLandy]

"It's no secret that most buyers aren't interested in how their SUV performs off-road. Or if it has even been designed to leave the relative sanctity of the bitumen." ('Disco Fever, battle of the luxury SUV's', The Age 20 June 2015). Disco Sport fails, comes third in comparison against BMW X3 and Audi Q5. Trying to be everything to all people in luxury urban escapeism mode is entirely unbecoming for Land Rover. Grave fears should be held for all future Land Rover models if this is a sign of things to come. A follower not a leader. Not worthy of the Discovery name, Let alone the Land Rover name.

[AllTerr]

That's funny.... I just read the exact opposite...


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[ramblingboy42]

Oh dear Mr Landy.....you are a SNIOP.......

have you read any other reports in the Discovery Sport?

the ones I have read have been very very good.

do you know anyone who has really tried to use their X3 or Q5 in the bush?

I know a guy who reckoned the X3 was the biggest piece of rubbish he had owned.....he sold it as soon as he could.

I don't think a motoring journalist has praised a Land Rover since the first Rangie was released.

[cripesamighty]

Was privy to a conversation just after some Q5 and X5 owners tagged along with some other SUV type vehicles (Forester, Freelander 2, XC90, D3, D4, Prado) on a 2 week holiday in convoy with a bunch of families. There was a modest amount of offroad tracks to negotiate, nothing requiring a 4WD or low range though.

The Q5 and X5 owners were in the process of selling their vehicles, as for them, in this mixed company of vehicles, theirs were shown up as unfit for purpose. The X5 owner complained about his tyres being wrecked after this light workout amongst other things and was very disappointed in the way the car didn't meet the hype of the sales pitch he received when he bought it. I'm pretty sure the Disco Sport wouldn't have flinched under the same light workout.

[Homestar]

I've heard nothing but good reports about it up until now. It is supposed to be very good off road too.

[scarry]

And it will get even better once the models with the new engines are released here.

[MrLandy]

Seriously? You all think the Disco Sport is an off road vehicle?

Sure it may be able to drive on some dirt roads "nothing which required 4WD". But that is anathema to the brand in my book. It's a soft roader 'sports' car designed primarily for on road use. Road Rover.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Let me guess,,
you dont like the Evoque or new RR either,,,

[Homestar]

Seriously? You all think the Disco Sport is an off road vehicle?

Sure it may be able to drive on some dirt roads "nothing which required 4WD". But that is anathema to the brand in my book. It's a soft roader 'sports' car designed primarily for on road use. Road Rover.

A lot more capable than the Freelander it is replacing. I don't think anyone would buy one thinking it is a full on off roader, but it is certainly more than a soft roader.

[DiscoClax]

I had the great privelege of working closely with an ex-Land Rover Engineer for a few years not that long ago. Apart from being a top bloke and having his head screwed on right he also shared much information on their development and sign-off process. The company I worked for owned them at the time. I can't divulge too much but I can say that all Land Rover product must meet a minimum standard of capability, verified on their in-house off-road test course. No great surprise there. But what was surprising to me was how high that level was. Watching internal footage of a production spec Evoque traversing the same stuff a Defender goes through was truly eye-opening. Ultimately a Defender will always be more capable than their 'soft' variants, and have lower damageability, but even these 'lesser' offerings provide staggering ability and robust engineering. Look at water wading specs as just one basic example. Seriously. It totally changed my perception of the company and is products. It is something the public don't get to see, and the press don't really get exposed to either. It's a pity they don't make a bigger deal about it really.

I'd have one :) :thumbsup:

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[MrLandy]

Let me guess,,
you dont like the Evoque or new RR either,,,

Range Rovers are awesome machines with a significant Land Rover pedigree. I could never afford one and they have become a bit too bling for my liking, but they make sense as the pinnacle of the luxury / technology end of the Land Rover brand.

Evoque, well yes, it's obvious, same category as disco sport. I'd rather a Subaru.

[Geedublya]

Subaru's are great cars however they are no where near as capable as a Freelander. I tried to take my Outback up a track that was a little interesting, it didn't take long to cross axle it and then it wouldn't go anywhere.
I've seen some of the places that a Freelander can go and some of the 4WD utes in standard trim have difficulty doing the same terrain.

[Disco Muppet]

Is this because you can't rivet things onto the side of it and have it still look 'acceptable'?
Is Mr Landy another panel gap fetishist? :D

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[MR LR]

What a load of dribbling rot.

Whilst I disagree with it getting the Discovery name, it's a direct replacement for the Freelander (shares most of its underneath parts with the FL2 and Ewok), which was perfectly deserving of the LR name...

It's a different product line to the rugged Land Rovers, and if the soft ones didn't exist, how many decades ago do you think the hard ones would have disappeared? :wasntme:

[MrLandy]

Is this because you can't rivet things onto the side of it and have it still look 'acceptable'?
Is Mr Landy another panel gap fetishist? :D

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He He, nah each to their own brother. I'm just a provocative, no pretender 4WD guy tired of the luxury urban-centric trajectory that Land Rover is taking with every vehicle, at the expense of serious heavy duty working 4WD's. This indirectly also means less and less service support outside the cities, for what are becoming more and more high-tech vehicles supposedly designed for the bush.

[MrLandy]

What a load of dribbling rot.

Whilst I disagree with it getting the Discovery name, it's a direct replacement for the Freelander (shares most of its underneath parts with the FL2 and Ewok), which was perfectly deserving of the LR name...

It's a different product line to the rugged Land Rovers, and if the soft ones didn't exist, how many decades ago do you think the hard ones would have disappeared? :wasntme:

There is only one hard one dude and it's about to disappear!

[LandyAndy]

There is only one hard one dude and it's about to disappear!

Nah mate.
Once Defender production finishes they are putting the name on these.
Tata Motors Australia - Tata Tuff Truck Concept (http://www.tatamotors.com.au/vehicles/tuff-truck-concept/)
Andrew

[MrLandy]

Nah mate.
Once Defender production finishes they are putting the name on these.
Tata Motors Australia - Tata Tuff Truck Concept (http://www.tatamotors.com.au/vehicles/tuff-truck-concept/)
Andrew

:D:o aah yes, just another hilux.

[LandyAndy]

aah yes they can if they wish,they own the company;););););)
Andrew

[Tombie]

What a load of crap... :angel:

Your posts are a fast-trak version of 4WD Action... :wasntme:


D4s as example have proven more reliable than any model Defender...
And are being used for almost all the same things out on the tracks...

Most "hard" 4wdrivers really are nothing but travellers... We have a member here who has taken a FL2 across the iconic tracks without issue...

We (LR owners) dress our vehicles up with all the gear more often because we like it, and it may make the trip a little nicer... Not because the vehicle needs it.

To claim that a vehicle built by a company is not worthy of the brand is just ludicrous...

As for urban servicing...

We dont have a LR, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Ford, Jeep, VW, Hyundai dealer in town (2nd largest city in SA).

We have a Holden dealer... And just recently a new Toyota dealer (essentially a service department only).

Ironically when it comes to service items, the worse was the Toyota dealer - most parts 6-8 weeks Ex-Japan.

And the quality of the workshop makes any LR story seem tame.

[grey_ghost]

My opinion...

I have a 101, a 60 SWB Station Wagon and a 61 LWB Ute - and I am will soon looking at buying a new daily driver..

Why not buy a Discovery Sport? If it helps Land Rover make more money - and more development goes into other Land Rover/Range Rover products - isn't everybody a winner?

I know that it's not a hard-core 4WD - and I accept that. I'm not buying it for that reason.

Why don't I buy a Defender? Because I do about 40,000km a year on bitumen and I want some comfort.. :wasntme: :angel:

Different strokes for different folks - as long as it has a Land Rover badge - it's all good in my eyes.

[MrLandy]

Thanks Tombie :) its interesting what a little provocative critique brings out! :angel:

Nice post Grey Ghost, absolutely agreed each to their own :) hope you love it!

It's just very interesting that no-one seems concerned that Land Rover is going soft. Yes D4's are awesome and capable, but not durable like a Defender.

[LandyAndy]

Thanks Tombie :) its interesting what a little provocative critique brings out! :angel:

Nice post Grey Ghost, absolutely agreed each to their own :) hope you love it!

It's just very interesting that no-one seems concerned that Land Rover is going soft. Yes D4's are awesome and capable, but not durable like a Defender.

I dont need to wory about the outside world intruding in my world whilst steering my D4.No dust,no road noise,no water,no drivetrain noise,and it dosent bleed oil all over the shed floor.Mate the duke box is awesome.
Off-road,see you and raise you anytime, BEST YOU HAVE A DRIVE OF A D4 BEFORE HAVING A CRACK:p
:p:p:p:p:p:p:p
Durable,well lets see.Have a friend who got their PHEWma bought back by LRA as it was a lemon.
Andrew

[cuppabillytea]

The most salient point here was made by Mr LR. If it wasn't for The Luxury Land Rovers the defender would have gone long ago.
I rebuilt a Rover 2000 SC back in the late 70's. I remember being amazed by the quality of the product. Very few parts deeded replacing, and the engineering was brilliant. My Dad was impressed too. After declaring that he would never own a Pommy car he went out and got himself a 3500.
Where are Rover cars now? They spawned the Land Rover which spawned the Range Rover and so on. The Rover itself is in Limbo now and the Defender is about to pass into legend. Who is to say that the company which has produced so many brilliant products, couldn't produce another Rover car or a highly credible Defender Replacement?

[MrLandy]

I dont need to wory about the outside world intruding in my world whilst steering my D4.No dust,no road noise,no water,no drivetrain noise,and it dosent bleed oil all over the shed floor.Mate the duke box is awesome.
Off-road,see you and raise you anytime, BEST YOU HAVE A DRIVE OF A D4 BEFORE HAVING A CRACK:p
:p:p:p:p:p:p:p
Durable,well lets see.Have a friend who got their PHEWma bought back by LRA as it was a lemon.
Andrew

Love your passion LandyAndy! As I said I agree D4s are awesome.

[MrLandy]

The most salient point here was made by Mr LR. If it wasn't for The Luxury Land Rovers the defender would have gone long ago.

...I rest my case. Land Rover are more focussed on Luxury vehicles than on Work vehicles, hence the demise of the Defender.

... Who is to say that the company which has produced so many brilliant products, couldn't produce another Rover car or a highly credible Defender Replacement?[/QUOTE]

...They could yes, but I'm not holding my breath that they will.

[Homestar]

...I rest my case. Land Rover are more focussed on Luxury vehicles than on Work vehicles, hence the demise of the Defender.


That's because that's where the money is. Simple economics, not a conspiracy. ;)

[MrLandy]

That's because that's where the money is. Simple economics, not a conspiracy. ;)

Seriously? You think there's no money in mining, farming, defence, etc? Toyota hasn't made any money worldwide with Landcruiser / Hilux?

[incisor]

Seriously? You think there's no money in mining, farming, defence, etc? Toyota hasn't made any money worldwide with Landcruiser / Hilux?

there is heaps....

but why try and compete there when there is already a highly profitable market they they have by the throat?

path of least resistance....

[LoveB]

I imagine for a while.. the reason they had the ultra luxurious discos and whats nots and not made another 'hard' SUV is they already had the best. Why make another defender when there is already a defender. lol

I quite like the disco sport. It's not a hard offroader but I'm certain if I really wanted to I could take it onto harder tracks. lol but thats what the defender is for.

if I was asked why the disco sport - why not? lol I would rather be seen in a soft land rover than anything else I suppose hahahahaha

[wardy1]

LR, or anyone else for that matter will never build another Deefer. They are simply an anachronism.

Safety in collisions and pedestrian safety standards have made them into a dinosaur. Unfortunate, but true. They simply can't build one to comply with the standards required for this century. The fact that LR have refused to release an auto version has shut them out of the military and much of the mining industry anyway.

I do wonder though how these monster trucks from the US which will become a more common feature on our roads over the next few years actually work in these safety areas. Their height and sheer bulk must surely mean that any collision with a smaller (normal size) vehicle will place the occupants of the smaller vehicle at grave risk. I saw one of the new Ford trucks the other day (a Raptor I think it was) on its standard 35" tyres and honestly, even looking at it from my D2 made me feel very small indeed.

[Homestar]

Seriously? You think there's no money in mining, farming, defence, etc? Toyota hasn't made any money worldwide with Landcruiser / Hilux?

Not for Land Rover obviously or they would be pumping them out and the market would have already accepted them - which they haven't. Well off urbanites have, so you built to your market.

[cuppabillytea]

Oh ye of little faith. I anxiously await the arrival of the next whatever it is.

[vnx205]

Land Rover and every other manufacturer are not exactly free to build whatever they want or whatever they might think would appeal to you or me.

Automotive design is pretty highly regulated. Isn't it the case that most of the recent engine changes; the 200Tdi to the 300Tdi to the TD5 to the Puma etc were made to meet EU emission regulations?

[frantic]

Nah mate.
Once Defender production finishes they are putting the name on these.
Tata Motors Australia - Tata Tuff Truck Concept (http://www.tatamotors.com.au/vehicles/tuff-truck-concept/)
Andrew

Anybody else notice?
It's halfway back to a real defender,,,,,,it's got a 3.73 Salisbury rear axle!!! I wonder if they'll use a sal or solid axle in the front if doing a heavy duty model?
With a 2.2 that has the full 110kw not the 90 ford wind back before handing over in all but one special edition it's also interesting, if not embarrassing to LR.

[grey_ghost]

Hi All,

Yesterday I went and test drove a base model, Turbo Diesel 2.2, auto, Discovery Sport... Hmmm. :banana:

While it's probably not as capable off road as a Defender - it's more than adequate for what I want...

Sits in the corner and tries to work out how to come up with the funds... :wasntme:

[Disco Muppet]

I'm sure we're all familiar with that particular thought process :D

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[ozscott]

OP I know where you are coming from, but the horse has bolted and in terms of soft roaders the LR's will always be a good thing.

I love the iconic Defenders and Disco 1 and 2 shape and there character. I love the offroad ability of these vehicles. My D2 is a very comfortable and very able tourer and offroader - I have modded it it suit my needs. I could have purchased a D3 or D4 but make a conscious choice to spend (quite a lot) of money on my D2. Thats my choice. If I was in the market for a quiet, efficient, city vehicle that could also take me to some other places off road, like beaches that were not too soft and tracks that were rutted etc, but still recognisable as 'normal' dirt tracks the D4 sport would be a nice option.

I wouldnt for a minute expect that it would perform off road to anything like my modded D2 or a D4 standard, but the point is that is not what they are for.

The OP needs to remembers that LR has for decades been a brand that has luxury and offroading prowess in mind. Sit in a set of HSE D2 electric seats and grab the wallnut and leather wheel - a seriously nice arrangement.

LR needs to expand its market and doing smaller softer vehicles is smart - even if they offer 2wd.

LR will still produce excellent offroad vehicles, even if when they have an electrical failure or similiar in the middle of nowhere the chances of self help for most people is unlikely, but that is the way all modern vehicles are going. I am not a fan of over complicated offroaders either, but LR have ALWAYS been complicated compared to other marks, at least from the first RR onwards.

If you dont like the D4 Sport thats fine, but its not trampelling on hallowed ground, its just an adjuct to it.

Cheers

[Tusker]

"It's no secret that most buyers aren't interested in how their SUV performs off-road. Or if it has even been designed to leave the relative sanctity of the bitumen." ('Disco Fever, battle of the luxury SUV's', The Age 20 June 2015). Disco Sport fails, comes third in comparison against BMW X3 and Audi Q5. Trying to be everything to all people in luxury urban escapeism mode is entirely unbecoming for Land Rover. Grave fears should be held for all future Land Rover models if this is a sign of things to come. A follower not a leader. Not worthy of the Discovery name, Let alone the Land Rover name.

That article was syndicated around I read in the Sydney Morning Herald. It was wrong in a couple of respects, e.g. the reference to full size spare.

Notwithstanding, the reason it got 3rd seemed to relate to the engine. The new Ingenium engines should fix that, and I think are already in production.

Regards
Max P

[MrLandy]

Some great thinking here. ...The market for 4WD's has definitely changed and obviously Land Rover needs to maximise its soft roader market. The reason I think Disco Sport is not up to scratch is not so much about whether it will sell well...it probably will. It's disappointment in Land Rover following rather than leading.

The review above makes it very clear that Disco Sport is really just another X5 or Audi (or Touareg.) They even look virtually the same. It's also in the context that every Land Rover on the market now is a luxury, predominantly urban focussed vehicle. It's the end of real Land Rover adventure in my book.

Obviously if you like the Disco Sport and it does what you need, great! But what about those of us whose predominant vehicle use is in the bush? Land Rover has left us high and dry with the end of Defender. Its shameful. Not to mention nothing under $70,000! The Toorak Tractor moniker has never rung more true than now. Each to their own of course (unless you want a bush / work vehicle).

[Tombie]

MrLandy - May I ask what field of work you are in?

You make frequent comment around "Head bush for work"...


Any job that gets you 'out there' is a good one ;)

[MrLandy]

MrLandy - May I ask what field of work you are in?

You make frequent comment around "Head bush for work"...


Any job that gets you 'out there' is a good one ;)

Sure Tombie, I've worked in remote communities for many years in North WA, NT, NSW. ...PM me if you want to chat. Cheers,

[mikehzz]

I'll probably end up buying one of these, soley because they are built on the FL2. My FL2 has been the best car I have owned, it has 222k on the clock and has been everywhere from Billy Goats Bluff to the Simpson Desert. I've owned 2 Subarus, in fact I traded an Outback on the FL2, and I'm a member of the Subaru 4wd Club, so I've seen plenty of Subarus off road. I can say without a doubt that the FL2 is good enough to tow them where they can't even go. That's my opinion. Most people seriously under rate how good they are. Of course you have to learn how to drive them properly.
As for electronics, my FL2 got hammered by mud on the Warburton Crossing track into the south Simpson. The mud solidified in the wheel arches and actually stopped the wheels from turning. I had to hack it out, sitting in the rain and mud on my own. It wrecked an abs sensor which turned off all special programs and lit up the dash. The car still drove out on its own and back to Sydney. All this and it gets under 8 litres per 100 in outstanding comfort. No low range, no problem, I've been on the steepest tracks on the Eastern Seaboard. Light weight, auto box, mud/ruts program and plenty of grunt go a long way to compensate.
My mate Vesko has one as well and we both usually travel solo to some pretty remote places (we have no friends). :D You really have to trust the car to do that and it has to deliver. So far it has and put a smile on my face doing it. And I don't even like Land Rover the company. :)