Convert Petrol to Diesel

[Themadmob]

Hi All

A quick question ... I have a S2 petrol motor and was wondering what I would need to do to convert the engine to a diesel engine.

I know the block is the same ...........

[gromit]

Replace almost every part except the block (someone will confirm this I'm sure).

Cheaper option http://www.aulro.com/afvb/complete-engines-sale/221205-series-iii-2-25-diesel-townsville.html


Colin

[crackers]

Does the diesel offer any advantage over the petrol?
Or maybe that should be, what are the pros and cons of each?

[Themadmob]

I want to do a overland trip in high altitudes and was wondering if a diesel would be better ?????

[cafe latte]

I am not sure of the details, but I read somewhere that some engines (2 1/4) where built to be able to be swapped between petrol and diesel, I cant find the link sorry. From memory these engines (military) could have the spark plugs removed and the dizzy removed and an injector pump and injectors fitted and then it was a diesel. The same article said this could not be done to a normal 2 and a 1/4 petrol as as the normal petrol was not up to it.
Wish I could find the link so annoying!!
Chris

[debruiser]

Should ahve told me you were looking for one a couple months back.... I took 4 or 5 engines to the scrappy.... you could have given me a coupla bucks for them

[Themadmob]

What do you do to have so many engines ?

[cafe latte]

Can anyone confirm some engines can be converted? One thing I read I have been wondering ever since.
Chris

[Blknight.aus]

providing you stay within the confine of the year grouping of the engines yes it can be done and its relatively easy.

the really really short version is unbolt the head remove the dizzy and bolt in the injector pump and the diesel head then remove the carby, while that stuffs off you insert the diesel rods, crank and pistons. you should also swap the cam from the petrol cam to the diesel cam, but the petrol cam will make it work as a diesel. putting a diesel cam in a petrol block does make for a bit of an improvement in the petrols performance.

you can use a petrol manifold on a diesel but not the otherway aound

[cafe latte]

From what I remember one the special engines you dont need to unbolt the head.
Chris

[Blknight.aus]

The 2.25D head can be converted to a petrol head.

I dont know if it was ever done with a landover engine but I do recall an old style stantionary engine that had a large port in the head that you could crew in a precombution chamber with an injector in it to run it on diesel (obviously you needed to have the injector pump fitted a well or you could screw in a blanking plug and run it just on petrol.

you didnt have a choice on starting it, it had to have the carby and spark plug to get it started and wamed up then flicked it over to kero/diesel. one of the adjustments for the quality of fuel was setting the depth of the blanking plug or the precombution chamber depth to raise or lower the compression.

From memory chnge over was a case of getting it back to just on idle, turning off the petrol supply until the engine began topick up revs as the fuel mix leaned out, and then flicking a lever on the injector pump which enganged tbe injector pump and then turned off the spark.

[cafe latte]

The 2.25D head can be converted to a petrol head.

I dont know if it was ever done with a landover engine but I do recall an old style stantionary engine that had a large port in the head that you could crew in a precombution chamber with an injector in it to run it on diesel (obviously you needed to have the injector pump fitted a well or you could screw in a blanking plug and run it just on petrol.

you didnt have a choice on starting it, it had to have the carby and spark plug to get it started and wamed up then flicked it over to kero/diesel. one of the adjustments for the quality of fuel was setting the depth of the blanking plug or the precombution chamber depth to raise or lower the compression.

From memory chnge over was a case of getting it back to just on idle, turning off the petrol supply until the engine began topick up revs as the fuel mix leaned out, and then flicking a lever on the injector pump which enganged tbe injector pump and then turned off the spark.

I have a couple of dozers, a big D7 which I use on the farm and a little cat22 which is a bit of fun. The cat 22 is a 1926 model and it runs on both Petrol and power Kero (or petrol and diesel mix). You can run it on just petrol but swapping a warmer round on the carb, but most ran them on petrol and diesel mix. You need though to start her on petrol till she warms up then flick over to the petrol and diesel mix. No injectors though it just runs through the carby and it runs really well on it too.
The article I read re the diesel Land rovers was going on about some being easily converted ie injector pump and dizzy and spark plugs not removing the heads. I cant imagine how they could have got round the problem of the precombustion chambers.. I cant see how it could have worked but there was something on the net a while back.
Chris

[debruiser]

What do you do to have so many engines ?

1 x I bought a diesel for a project then decided not to use
3 x parts cars
1 x spare engine that came with a project
1 x engine from my current project
1 x can't remember where that came from but must have got it with a car or something.....

Most are gone now. Although I think I might still have a diesel that needs a fair bit of work.... could be a 5 bearing petrol there too.... not sure...

[Lotz-A-Landies]

If I remember correctly the SIII 2 1/4" were diesel blocks, in SII and SIIa the blocks were slightly different.

There are also differences in the cranks, and importantly the pistons have to be changed.

The best engine to use would be one of the very late SIII 2.3 engines with the 5 bearing crank.

Otherwise I know someone who is about to remove a 2.5 NA diesel from a 1989 Defender 90 when it is replaced with a turbo diesel. Should fit straight into a series 4 cylinder chassis.

If you're going to be doing high altitude work (where is that in Australia? :confused: ) a turbo diesel would be the preferred option.

[Blknight.aus]

I have a couple of dozers, a big D7 which I use on the farm and a little cat22 which is a bit of fun. The cat 22 is a 1926 model and it runs on both Petrol and power Kero (or petrol and diesel mix). You can run it on just petrol but swapping a warmer round on the carb, but most ran them on petrol and diesel mix. You need though to start her on petrol till she warms up then flick over to the petrol and diesel mix. No injectors though it just runs through the carby and it runs really well on it too.
The article I read re the diesel Land rovers was going on about some being easily converted ie injector pump and dizzy and spark plugs not removing the heads. I cant imagine how they could have got round the problem of the precombustion chambers.. I cant see how it could have worked but there was something on the net a while back.
Chris

Yep vaporisor diehsel, AKA the deisel with a carby. WOn a few carto of beer from them with yong bloke who dot know any better

[cafe latte]

Yes, the exhaust gases are diverted round the carby to heat it up, when it is hot enough it will run on the diesel and petrol mix and you switch over, it works very well indeed. I should sell my toy really as it is quite rare now and I have no use for it, but it is so much fun :)
Chris

[Themadmob]

Thanks for your help guys ... The high altitude areas will be in Russia ... We are taking a few landrovers to the UK and overland to Magadan

[Sitec]

Hi Themadmob.

Ok, I'll throw a different take own his conversation... The 2.286 petrol is an underrated engine that in the right hands can have as much get up and go as a Rover V8. Now, the diesel you are talking about building up using a petrol block etc has to be one of the most dated, sluggish and inefficient lumps Land Rover made. I ran one years ago and the novelty wore off very quickly. Do not waste your time and funds building up an old indirect injection 2.286 diesel when you can buy a 200 Tdi and basically bolt it straight in place of your petrol. The bell housing is the same pattern (bolt holes need to be enlarged to M10), the metal mounts need taking off your petrol and fitting to the Tdi. Use the Tdi bolts as they are metric. Replace the petrol mount with Series 3 diesel mounts. (Same size but stronger). Use the thermostat housing off the petrol.. but use the Tdi's metric bolts. You will have to remove the battery tray and relocate the battery as the fuel injection pump sits there. The original rad will cope fine IF it is in good condition and clean. A bit of inginuity will have a fan in he right place and working. Electric fan is the easy option. An intercooler will need rigging up somewhere. There's a few other things that need modifying. A cut down Ser 3 6 cyl LWB exhaust system gives you the bore you need and enough parts to alow modification. The rear section should be able to be fitted up relatively simply. You will then have a fuel efficient vehicle that you can get parts for. If you are worried about too much power, get the pump turned down and it'll be even better on fuel. Good luck! :)

[cafe latte]

Hi Themadmob.

Ok, I'll throw a different take own his conversation... The 2.286 petrol is an underrated engine that in the right hands can have as much get up and go as a Rover V8. Now, the diesel you are talking about building up using a petrol block etc has to be one of the most dated, sluggish and inefficient lumps Land Rover made. I ran one years ago and the novelty wore off very quickly. Do not waste your time and funds building up an old indirect injection 2.286 diesel when you can buy a 200 Tdi and basically bolt it straight in place of your petrol. The bell housing is the same pattern (bolt holes need to be enlarged to M10), the metal mounts need taking off your petrol and fitting to the Tdi. Use the Tdi bolts as they are metric. Replace the petrol mount with Series 3 diesel mounts. (Same size but stronger). Use the thermostat housing off the petrol.. but use the Tdi's metric bolts. You will have to remove the battery tray and relocate the battery as the fuel injection pump sits there. The original rad will cope fine IF it is in good condition and clean. A bit of inginuity will have a fan in he right place and working. Electric fan is the easy option. An intercooler will need rigging up somewhere. There's a few other things that need modifying. A cut down Ser 3 6 cyl LWB exhaust system gives you the bore you need and enough parts to alow modification. The rear section should be able to be fitted up relatively simply. You will then have a fuel efficient vehicle that you can get parts for. If you are worried about too much power, get the pump turned down and it'll be even better on fuel. Good luck! :)
I swapped out a good series petrol for a good series diesel, but my needs where rather specific. I have a farm and the series 3 landy was never going to leave the farm it just chugs around my property. The petrol was fine, but I get diesel delivered (4,000 liters at a time) not petrol so it was a pain in the butt every time I needed to refill with petrol. Also crossing the creek a few times wet the dizzy and resulted in me stalling and having to walk back to the house, the last time it happened it was in monsoonal rain :mad: which was when I decided to swap the engine..
On the farm the 2.25 diesel is great, it would climb a wall, but I hardly ever get it into fourth gear. I cant imagine driving it on the road you would need to be not in a hurry.
Saying that, if I wanted a work truck just to go into town with to carry my tools for my rentals which is only a 10 minute drive the old series diesel would be fine, but if you want to go on a motorway forget it for this get a 200tdi or stick with the petrol.
Chris

[Themadmob]

All these decisions ... You guys arnt helping :-) .... :-) ... :-) okay I have ruled out the diesel after your advise Chris as we are going to do a 24000 km trip through Asia and Europe ... So do I restore the 1960 S2 Petrol ....... Which is part of the challenge I want to achieve .... Old engine doing 24000 km's ..... Or ..... Go 200TDI ???????????

[cafe latte]

Why not restore the petrol it would be more original, you could always fit a lpg kit to get cheaper running costs for when gas is available. Your main issues with the petrol are running costs and getting the dizzy wet with deep wading. I am sure you could water proof the dizzy some how with a rubber glove or something, but for economy you wont beat the 200tdi. It really depends if you want to keep every thing original, if it was me I would go the 200tdi, but that is just me being stingy re running costs :)
Chris

[Themadmob]

That was my original thought .. I what to restore the 1960 S2 2.25 petrol engine and have it travel 24000 kms through Europe and Asia., it must be a challenge and it sure will be.

[cafe latte]

That was my original thought .. I what to restore the 1960 S2 2.25 petrol engine and have it travel 24000 kms through Europe and Asia., it must be a challenge and it sure will be.

Go for it!! The old series petrol engines will run on very poor petrol so it will be ideal for Asia. Just take some obvious spares, like a carby kit, points, belts and hoses you know the sort of stuff.
I once drove a 1966 MGB GT from the UK to Italy, we got some very funny looks on that trip.
Are you restoring the rest of it or just the motor?
How much is it going to cost you to get it in and out of Aus for the trip?
Chris

[Themadmob]

I'm also restoring everything on the Landy as well ...it was stripped down to chassis ...Apparently about $2500 to ship to UK

[frantic]

You could always do option C:
Do both, restore an old 2.25 petrol with original gearbox etc, but for the trip grab a 200/300tdi with a Disco/ defender 5 speed to give you better economy, power and parts availability.( possible power steer addition if you want) Also more comfortable cruising speed And as your going though the uk potential to get a few more horses to climb the ranges. A bigger intercooler etc.
You could then recoup some money onselling the engine gearbox when you got back.

[Themadmob]

You could always do option C:
Do both, restore an old 2.25 petrol with original gearbox etc, but for the trip grab a 200/300tdi with a Disco/ defender 5 speed to give you better economy, power and parts availability. Also more comfortable cruising speed And as your going though the uk potential to get a few more horses to climb the ranges. A bigger intercooler etc.
What is the work involved in dropping a defender gearbox in ???

[frantic]

From what I understand a Disco 200tdi gearbox is better as it is higher ratio 1.1 compared to defender 1.4 Ratio.
It may need mods in the inside around the panels over gearbox and a mod you should have is the crossmember under gearbox cut and made to be bolt in rather than welded.(easier for clutch change etc.
The other options are an overdrive, to original series box, with a 200tdi, or fit lower ratios front and rear, standard are 4.7, newer defenders, Discos and the rrc all had 3.54, some 10 spline, others 24.
There are a lot of conversions on the uk sites as s2 and early s3 are tax free, have a look.
Fitting a Defender 5spd box to my 200tdi Series 3 - Series Forum - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=69195)

[Sitec]

What is the work involved in dropping a defender gearbox in ???

Quite a lot. I would suggest a slightly detuned Tdi against a Series 2 box as they're stronger than the Series 3 (All synchro) box, and then fit an overdrive. If you have the time, then yes a Defender box is the go. With a Discovery box, yes and no. Yes the ratio is better at 1.222:1 in the transfer case, but no due to its length. To have the gear lever where it should be, you'd have to move the engine forward about 160mm as the R380 and Disco Lt77's have longer bell housing... For a rough idea on work involved with fitting a 5 speed, I have a thread going in Projects and Tutorials called 'SWMBO's Ser 2 Tdi The Beginning' or something like that.. Its the beginning of a ground up resto on a Series vehicle that's going to be fast, reliable, fuel efficient and reasonably comfortable. I have sourced a Defender LT77 as they're shorter and not too dissimilar to a Series box. They run the LT 230 Transfercase which has plenty of ratio options. Going back to the petrol as an option to restore, if you do that, then look to a 'Turner' recon head out of the UK as they have hardened valve inserts and are set up to run unleaded long term, and would prob handle gas too. I've had nothing to do with gas converting a 2.286 tho so can't comment. As said before, fit a diesel cam. If you do go down this route make up a decent 2.5" exhaust, with decent inlet and exhaust manifolds. A decent later twin choke carby of a car would also be something worth considering. Loose the oil bath air filter too.

Found it:- http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/171036-swimbos-series-2-tdi-beginning.html

[Blknight.aus]

Dont discount the ability of a well tuned 2.25D.

Ask baz or icefyre about some of the bits achieved on the ccccc trip. I won the race against the td5 d2 on the telegraph on the way back down.

And on top.of all of that i used less diesel than any other vehicle on the trip except the regularly repaired range rover.

[Themadmob]

Dont discount the ability of a well tuned 2.25D.

Ask baz or icefyre about some of the bits achieved on the ccccc trip. I won the race against the td5 d2 on the telegraph on the way back down.

And on top.of all of that i used less diesel than any other vehicle on the trip except the regularly repaired range rover.
That was my thoughts .. if I rebuild the S2 1960 2.25 Petrol then it should perform very well.... The only issue will be the unleaded fuel issue ... But ... Nothing wrong with dropping some additive in every tank .. a small inconvenience I think

[crackers]

If you're rebuilding the engine, get the head done so you don't have to worry about unleaded fuel or LPG. Mind you, I'm not convinced you need to worry much anyway but if the work's being done, do all of it.

[Themadmob]

Crackers ...Who can put hardened valve seats in the head in Brisbane

[crackers]

Crackers ...Who can put hardened valve seats in the head in Brisbane

I have no idea because I'm not in Brisbane. The last time I had an MGB engine rebuilt, it was done as a matter of course so I would be amazed if it's difficult for a Land Rover.

[Lionelgee]

What do you do to have so many engines ?

Hello Themadmob,

Sometimes engines can be like moths around a light.

You start of with one ... Sort of like Land Rover Series IIIs - before you know it there is two, and then three then .... OMG!!!:D

Kind Regards
Lionel