Another 'Which D4 To Buy?' Thread

[Ranger J]

Hi Folks,

First of all, it's a great forum you have here, hopefully I will be able to contribute in future to make up for the valuable knowledge I've gained thus far.

I'm new to LR's. I currently own a 2004 Mitsubishi Pajero, and whilst it (and my previous Pajero) have been honest, capable and reliable 4wd's, I'm going to stray from brand loyalty on the next. I remember sitting in a demo model D4 at an Ag show when they were first released, and saying - "one day I'll have one of these".

Now, I'm having a hard time distinguishing the model I want/need. What I do want is the 3.0v6, preferably Fuji white, black interior and hi-line stereo.

My budget currently lends me to both the -2012 6spd SDV6 (180kw) and the 2013 8spd TDV6 (155kw).

Current towing duties are limited to a camper, which is only 1200kg tare max. Will be seeing a fair chunk of offroad duties, but for the most part will be a daily driver.

I have test driven the 180kw 6spd a few weeks ago and found it great - but other than a quick squirt out of a roundabout, I never really got to push it and sense the worth of the 600nm.

I'm yet to test drive the 8spd 155kw, and I guess that will help answer my question - but for the minute I'm looking to seek other's opinions/experience with either (or both)!

So I suppose the question is, what's more 'valuable'/beneficial? More power or a 'better' gearbox?

Cheers,
Ranger J

[Tombie]

Go the 8 speed. And the bonus. Down the track you can remap it to the same output as the 180kw version.

[rar110]

Both would be good vehicles, but I agree the 8 speed would be the better of the two.

[strydes]

I drove both and wish I didn't, there was no looking at the earlier model after that.

The extra power of the SDV6 might be useful sometimes, but the smoother box is a nice to have all the time if the dollars with stretch for it.

[LandyAndy]

The 8 speed is awesome.
I have had manual 4x4s in the past,found the steering wheel gearshift in manual mode a brilliant feature.The ECU likes to keep the engine reving off road,was great to be able to shift up gears without the hands leaving the steering wheel.
Andrew

[LRD414]

Definitely the 8 speed assuming most other factors of condition are similar between the two.

Scott

[nat_89]

Definitely the 8 speed!! Ive had a quick drive of the 155kw version and dont think there was that much of a difference between my 180kw version both 8speeds!! Its just worth it plus its a newer model, but you do miss out on the arm rests on the seats which is a big luxury haha

[Melbourne Park]

The 8 speed is awesome.
I have had manual 4x4s in the past,found the steering wheel gearshift in manual mode a brilliant feature.The ECU likes to keep the engine reving off road,was great to be able to shift up gears without the hands leaving the steering wheel.
Andrew

Hmm ... I don't think its easy to quickly change the gears with the wheel at an angle, because the paddles follow the wheel, and when the wheel is 90 degrees or more, confusion reigns as to which paddle is which. I was taught that one should not cross your hands off road too, and that one should keep your thumbs out of the wheel gaps. So if you re-arrange your hands, then the paddles have to be re-found. I've found that non intuitive. Around town the paddles are fine, but that is not what the thread is about.

I think Land Rover should have put the new pop out gearknob on the dashboard, and opened up the console space for something else such as an extra caverty and a place to put an extra 3rd party something ... an opportunity missed IMO. But then - if they'd have done that, it would have been a better layout than a Range Rover. You cannot have that, can you!

Evidently to assist the gearbox off road in tough conditions where heat can be an issue, using manual mode is better too ... as the gearbox will not swap up and down. The 8 speed is more likely to do that, which actually, is not good. IMO that is an argument for the 6 speed, with the stick in the middle.

As to chipping or remapping the TD - one can also do that with the SD motor. Whose injectors and pump are different too. But you don't have to spend such money at all with the SD engine.

Your tare is 1,100kg. I know someone who had bought every couple of years a new Ultimate camper, those have a fold out tent which sits in a fibreglass camper arrangement. They have a light tare - about 1,300kg I think. He told me that on a weighbridge, his loaded Ultimate weighed well over 2 tonne. He had water and fuel, food, etc etc. So even with 1,100kg, the weight can add up.

And KW can matter ... its not just about torque. I think on a hill, the extra 18% of torque and perhaps sometimes the KW more than makes up for a closer ratio of gears, and there's no need to change a gear - the spread is broader afterall.

The acceleration of the 6 SD speed to 100 KMH, is only 0.2 seconds slower than the 8 speed, on tests I have read vis a vis the 8 speed SD. Not much difference at all there. But ... there is more than 2 seconds difference between the TD and the SD in getting to 100KMH - which is a huge difference. That's clear evidence IMO that torque and KW cannot be made up with tow more gears. And when towing, the extra torque will use less fuel IMO.

However ... we don't drive our vehicles doing 0-100KMH sprints. And that is the real issue. But I'd much rather have the KW and torque rather than closer ratios. Quite a few people think the difference between a 6 speed and an 8 speed is a sales gimmick.

I don't know though whether the overall gearing is different, and whether the off road gearing is any different. Does the 8 speed have a higher top speed in low range than the 6 speed?

In a few years, there'll be a 10 speed box too ... and I bet the many here with 8 speeds will be saying that 10 isn't an improvement, its more of a gimmick. I reckon it will be too ...

As to the sound system - the SD would likely have a better sound system. You'll have to learn how to find out which sound system is installed. And some SDs have the LR GPS system, which IMO is a very good one. Although a 3rd party external is likely mandatory for the bush anyway. The LR GPS setup eas overpriced IMO.

Concerning the arm rests - passengers love them. The driver though - the arm rest can be good on a long trip, but IMO, its not a huge deal. The arm rests are trick though - they are wonderfully adjustable.

IMO there is a big big difference between the front seats from the manual seat to the electrically adjustable seats. There is a lot more adjustment on the electric ones - the electric ones go up on just the front of the squab, and the whole seat then goes up and down. The you can vary the seat angle. So the electric seats are very easy to adjust the angle for your lower back. This is IMO more important than the air bladder adjustment in the small of your back. I think they all have adjustment there ... but for me, the electrically adjustable seats were immensely more comfortable. I think though that if you normally have the seat in its lowest position, the manual seats would be closer in comfort. Because as a seat rises, its angles change and often they become less comfortable. So - check out the seat differences. IMO seats are important.

As far as the electric pop out mirrors go - the Land Rover ones don't save much space when folded (an SD feature I think). Unlike a Toyota mirror, which folds a lot more. Although the Toyota mirrors are poor compared to the LR ones IMO. But, the fold mirrors do assist in knowing you locked your vehicle!

I am not sure too, whether a 2012 has the trailer alignment aid in its reverse parking. This works when reversing - you select the trailer reversing camera mode - and a straight line appears in the reversing mirror, and you aim that line at the trailer connection hole (front of the A frame). And as you get very close to the trailer, the camera jumps to a cropped view, and the camera fills up with a close up of the tow ball. This is very hand for aligning a trailer, especially with the distance. It's something that is very very handy if your trailer attachment point is not easy to move. I suspect a 2013 would have a better low light capacity in its rear camera, than a 2012 also ... but 2012 cameras were a lot brighter in bad light than 2009 cameras. So perhaps 2012 cameras are bright. I am not sure how you'd find that out ...

[LandyAndy]

I didnt need to swap gears in tight twisty stuff,the ecu gets that perfect!!!!
However it seems to like 2000rpm in sand mode.Was easy peasy to downshift and upshift on straight sections where 2000rpm wasnt needed,and when a bit of power is required,there is multitudes.
The juke box in mine is the Meridian upgrade,I cant fault it.When I bought mine they were dressing the poverty pack up with the Meridian stereo,rear camera,daylight running lights,bi xenons,premium leather,extended warranty,free onroad costs,and low interest finance.
Why didnt I buy the demo or second hand early D4 I rang about;););););););)
Andrew

[giskard]

Hi Folks,

Now, I'm having a hard time distinguishing the model I want/need. What I do want is the 3.0v6, preferably Fuji white, black interior and hi-line stereo.

My budget currently lends me to both the -2012 6spd SDV6 (180kw) and the 2013 8spd TDV6 (155kw).

Ranger J

I have the 2013 TDV6 in Fuji white, with the upgraded stereo, but with the beige interior. I can't say I've ever felt it to underpowered. The 8 speed is exceptional. Very smooth and always finds the right gear. Sounds system is excellent. I've always found the seats to have lounge like comfort. I can't comment on the extra configurability of the electric seats, but I'm sure the convenience would be welcome.

In short, I've got zero regrets with the 2013 TDV6. It's a lot of truck. :)

[Melbourne Park]

At the end of the day, its value that counts.

I think that the 8 speed would use less fuel on the open road when not trailering. Because I think the motor revs are lower. But when trailering, that advantage on the open road would not be there IMO.

So, really, have your wants ticked off, and then compare the prices. And the history and warranty of the vehicle. Big price differences and low mileages should be an influence IMO. Except, if you are going to do high mileages. There is likely little point in paying a premium to get a vehicle which has 20k less mileage, if your going to do high mileages yourself. And the type of mileage can be found too ... dealers can ask the owner ... i did that with a lexus, and the owner lived on the Mornington peninsula. The dealer gave me a contact number after checking with the owner.

From the sound of this thread, 8 speeds will be easier to sell ... and they are later vehicles, with perhaps, some extras included. But - that comes down to your check box.

Incidentally the 2.7 should not be discounted for off road capability. It can run 17" wheels, which is a big advantage IMO. I know someone who has a 2.7, I think financed. His wife has "stolen" it ... but vehicles out of lease would be ideal. At 3 years, those would be 2012 ones. Typically an out of lease would be better value than one that is not?

[nat_89]

I think the 8spd will be definitely easier to sell as you say its a newer model, the electric seats and the armrests for me are awesome i use mine all the time and having the HSE is great because both me and my partner have different positions so its great just one press and its back to a comfy position it also helps having the electric steering column. For me with the SDV6 8speed the towing is amazing last month i towed 3.2t with an average speed of 108kmh and averaged 15.7l/100km at fuel calculations not what the car computer says so for towing its a pretty easy one there. I have the HK stereo not the meridian system and love it, i think it sounds pretty good. If given the choice i would probably go for an 8spd 155kw. But then again i really do love the armrests they truly make it a comfortable driving position.

[rar110]

Electric memory seats with arm rests and electric memory steering column make driving a car long distance very comfortable. Also when you swap drivers the seat and steering wheel goes exactly where you want it.

[Melbourne Park]

Well ... I don't use my arm rest around town!!! I know TD drivers miss them, but really - IMO its not a big deal. But for me personally, the extra seat adjustment availed from the electric controls, is a big big benefit. However, my 1997 Prado has got great seats - they are not adjustable. But perhaps, my body got used to them. The current Prado GXL seats are crap. The Prado VX and Kakadu much better, but they are crap compared to the electric seats in the SDs and probably crap compared to the base limited adjustment (IMO) of a TD.

As far as fuel economy goes, towing something heavy, torque is where its at, and 600NM v 520 is a big difference IMO. The torque is delivered from 1500 to 2500 too, so the gearbox differences between 6 and 8 are not going to make a difference - IMO.

But ... if you're highway cruising without towing, then the torque is not needed. And the lower revving (I think) top gear of the 8 speed is going to save you fuel, if you are not towing. So, my towing bias likes the SD motor ... but if the TD is much cheaper, then its the better buy ... IMO it all comes down to getting a good buy.

I bought a used Prado Kakadu, which had been an ex Toyota vehicle. The buyer towed a yacht, and found the door hit his winching post. He took it back to LeMans Toyota in Altona, and said I've changed my mind, I need a twin door, I want a 200 thanks. This was 10 days after buying it. Le Mans said get stuffed (according to the buyer who I called - he's a yachtie and told me the vehicle was excellent. I could hear his wife praising on the other end of the phone too!

He sold it to Werribee Toyota as a trade in on a 200 - they gave him a good deal. A dealership bought it. Their manager drove it for 6 months (which is what the dealership does, the manager lives 40KM from the dealership), and then I bought it. They said it had never been off road, and just before paying for it, I had them put it up on the stand and sure enough, there were some marks on the running board and two marks on either front chassis rail. So I carried on and they sold me an extended warranty for three years, for $500.

So ... be driven by a good deal, and do your homework. I sold the Kakadu for what I paid for it too ... but if there are Prado buyers out there (and the new 2.8 litre four is coming shortly with a 6 speed gearbox too!!!! - get GXL, the rest are not good IMO!).

[nat_89]

Electric memory seats with arm rests and electric memory steering column make driving a car long distance very comfortable. Also when you swap drivers the seat and steering wheel goes exactly where you want it.

Certainly does thats one of the reasons i went for the HSE because i love that, its a pain that my partners Audi doesn't have it so have to change the seat all the time thankfully she only really moves it up higher so not to much to change.


Well ... I don't use my arm rest around town!!! I know TD drivers miss them, but really - IMO its not a big deal. But for me personally, the extra seat adjustment availed from the electric controls, is a big big benefit. However, my 1997 Prado has got great seats - they are not adjustable. But perhaps, my body got used to them. The current Prado GXL seats are crap. The Prado VX and Kakadu much better, but they are crap compared to the electric seats in the SDs and probably crap compared to the base limited adjustment (IMO) of a TD.

As far as fuel economy goes, towing something heavy, torque is where its at, and 600NM v 520 is a big difference IMO. The torque is delivered from 1500 to 2500 too, so the gearbox differences between 6 and 8 are not going to make a difference - IMO.

But ... if you're highway cruising without towing, then the torque is not needed. And the lower revving (I think) top gear of the 8 speed is going to save you fuel, if you are not towing. So, my towing bias likes the SD motor ... but if the TD is much cheaper, then its the better buy ... IMO it all comes down to getting a good buy.

I bought a used Prado Kakadu, which had been an ex Toyota vehicle. The buyer towed a yacht, and found the door hit his winching post. He took it back to LeMans Toyota in Altona, and said I've changed my mind, I need a twin door, I want a 200 thanks. This was 10 days after buying it. Le Mans said get stuffed (according to the buyer who I called - he's a yachtie and told me the vehicle was excellent. I could hear his wife praising on the other end of the phone too!

He sold it to Werribee Toyota as a trade in on a 200 - they gave him a good deal. A dealership bought it. Their manager drove it for 6 months (which is what the dealership does, the manager lives 40KM from the dealership), and then I bought it. They said it had never been off road, and just before paying for it, I had them put it up on the stand and sure enough, there were some marks on the running board and two marks on either front chassis rail. So I carried on and they sold me an extended warranty for three years, for $500.

So ... be driven by a good deal, and do your homework. I sold the Kakadu for what I paid for it too ... but if there are Prado buyers out there (and the new 2.8 litre four is coming shortly with a 6 speed gearbox too!!!! - get GXL, the rest are not good IMO!).

I paid $92 for a HSE with ediff and elec steering column so that was a good enough deal for me to say yeah ill take that over a TDV6 of SE model.

I had a 150 Prado Altitude got a great deal on that and then 6 months later sold it for $500 more than i paid for it and that was brand new hahaha!!

Not only the armrests the memory seats is pretty good to!! And now the HSE models also come with the keyless open doors which is another good thing although i did argue with a dealer that it should be bloody standard as every model of Prado and 200 series come with it standard so that should be on LR to and he said LRs come with more stuff than both of them which is very true!! :p

Oh man the new 2.8 from Toyota is going to be a world beater I'm sure, finally going to 6 speed :o:o i dont think thats ever been seen before not to mention the massive increase of 3kw and 40nm she's really going to be a goer now!!