The Schuler Files

[incisor]

I have had correspondence from John Hoerner (http://johnhoerner.com), the man behind the Schuler Range Rover

he sent me the following....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/45.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vmbooR)

DSC04097 (https://flic.kr/p/vmbooR) by Dave Blears (https://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/), on Flickr

The Shuler Automaker badge was on the last vehicles I made for the UAE - a batch of extended LWB vehicles with stroked Group 3 Brock motors for the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi. 6 liters, 400 HP and 400 Ft/Lbs.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/46.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/v4AWCj)

Scan10001 (https://flic.kr/p/v4AWCj) by Dave Blears (https://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/), on Flickr

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/47.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vmwbQ6)

SCHULER FF 5000 On Song (https://flic.kr/p/vmwbQ6) by Dave Blears (https://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/), on Flickr

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/48.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/v4AWbs)

SCHULER FF 5000 On Song 2 (https://flic.kr/p/v4AWbs) by Dave Blears (https://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/), on Flickr

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/49.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/upkYE6)

scan (https://flic.kr/p/upkYE6) by Dave Blears (https://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/), on Flickr

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/50.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/v4Ju9k)

SCHULER FF5000 Hi Res-3 (https://flic.kr/p/v4Ju9k) by Dave Blears (https://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/), on Flickr

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/51.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/v4CiBw)

SHULER FF 5000-1 (https://flic.kr/p/v4CiBw) by Dave Blears (https://www.flickr.com/photos/niknodave/), on Flickr

more to come

[DoubleChevron]

That dashboard looks very nicely done. I wonder how they stopped the diffs, axles and cv's going "BANG" with that sort of torque being punched through them :wasntme:

[Outback 1]

That dashboard looks very nicely done. I wonder how they stopped the diffs, axles and cv's going "BANG" with that sort of torque being punched through them :wasntme:

Never took them off road lol:p:p:p:p:p

Sent from my GT-S7275Y using AULRO mobile app

[rangieman]

Never took them off road lol:p:p:p:p:p

Sent from my GT-S7275Y using AULRO mobile app

Mmmm remember back in the 80`s we came arcoss a smick black schuler up near WoodsPoint . That thing went off road and the only hassle the owner had was cooking the brakes:angel:

[Scouse]

There's one being parted out on eBay now. No engine details so I assume it's gone.
Wercking 1985 Range Rover in NSW | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/WERCKING-1985-RANGE-ROVER-/181789212871?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2a537b40c7)


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=95889&d=1435842251

[incisor]

i received this from John Hoerner


"SCHULER FFRR more than an automatic
At last the Land Rover factory approved automatic Range Rover.
The all new transfer gearbox has the patented Ferguson full time four wheel drive system. This is completely automatic in operation giving improved handling and safety margins with better performance. .... "
And a very interesting article in Outlander - November 1982 about FF and Quadramotive.

2) In the last article you sent from 4x4 Australia - SUPER ROVERS from 1983/84 there is no mentioning about the Brock HDT 5.0 Group Three engine.
Was it in 1985 you started selling the Schuler FFRR 5000 Range Rover ?


3) Both articles from 1985 (Outlander and Wheels) mention a quantity of 25 leaded Brock HDT 5.0 Group Three engines that was ordered/delivered from HDT Special Vehicles Pty Ltd.
Was it so that you first bought 25 leaded Brock HDT 5.0 Group Three engines and the next year/batch moved to unleaded Brock engines?


4) In an article from Wheels - September 1987 - is about the disagreement between Peter Brock and the HDT Special Vehicles Pty Ltd and Holden Company in February 1987.
Tom Wilkinshaw (from UK?) replaced Peter Brock's engagement and HSV Ltd became a partner with Holden.
Still today the HDT Special Vehicles Ltd exist, but to a much less size.

What impact had this Peter Brock disagreement with Holden for you at Quadramotive for your Schuler FFRR 5000 ?

Do you know approximately how many Range Rovers Quadramotive converted with the Brock HDT Group Three engine (or replacement engine) ?


5) In an article in Outlander - November 1982 - 'From brands hatch to Cunninghams Gap - Ferguson 4WD transmission in Range Rovers') describing the history behind the development of the Ferguson 4WD system and that Quadramotive was now the Australian agent for this system.The anti-locking brake system offered from Schuler, developed by Maxaret.
In this article you mention you hope for approval for the Ferguson anti-skid braking system to be approved by ADR.
Did you receive any Australian approval from ADR and were able to convert Range Rovers with this anti-locking brake system ?

6) In all pictures I have seen of Australian Range Rovers interior with the FF system I only see the original Schuler gear selector lever/stick.

Did Quadramotive any conversions with the LR/JRA factory produced automatic Range Rovers, with the Formula Ferguson transmission system and kept the new original LR factory automatic gear shift lever?

7) When did you/Quadramotive ended to convert Range Rovers with Schulers Formula Ferguson transmission system?


8) Any idea how many Range Rovers in Australia that was converted with the Schuler Formula Ferguson transmission system?

I am more than happy if you can share some light with questions and for any additional information to be shared or images to be scanned.


Cheers,
Vidar








I'm not sure you should feel honored - but it's a nice thought for an old bloke to hear.

I went to England in 1980 to get the deal in place with Schuler Presses.

At the time my friend Ian Roberts and I had formed a partnership as QuadraMotive - Ian is a very talented engineer and also came up with the name.

The first RR we converted with the Schuler FF kit was my 2 door 3.5 ltre vehicle. This would have been in about 1980/81.

The engine in this vehicle was fully blue-printed by Frank Lowndes - Craig Lowndes father.

It took a while for people to realise what a genius system the FF was - whistle into a corner and give it some throttle and around it went - no tendency to drive straight through the corner.

The reason I had become interested in the Schuler FF system in the first place was to be able to get to my fishing shack at Cape Otway firstly going down the Geelong Road as fast as possible and then being able to navigate the rubbish road that the Great Ocean Road used to be and finally the dirt track down to the tip of the Cape and still be able to handle the sand dunes. The 3 speed TorqueFlite transmission was bullet proof.

The various motoring writer such as Chris de Fraga and others all seemed to be amazed but the manner in which the FF system handled these widely varying conditions.

Again I must tickle the old grey cells - it must have been 84/85 that I did the deal for the Brock engines and began designing the Schuler FF 5000.

Earlier Ian had built a 350 Chev engined Schuler with a Schuler Tx and I decided that I wanted a more Aussie engine and sought out the Group 3 motors.

I also had a deal with FF {not Schuler) to put one of their Opel 4x4 conversions to build a Brock Group 3 engined 4WD - pity that did not happen.

There as only one batch of 25 Brock engines and I am pretty sure they were all leaded. The problems that HDT did not impact on Schuler Australia at the time.

Most of those engines ended up in my local Schulers but some were stroked to 6.00 ltre for the UAE vehicles. Several FF 5000 found their way to the Moonee Oil fields - one customer complained that the temp gauge was reading a bit hot when cruising for a few hours at about 140K's.

Again memory tells me it was about 50 or so vehicles that Quadramotive fitted will the Schuler Tx.

Back then I had been developing a Solar village of 16 allotments back then and at the same time expanding my picture framing business Frame Maker and very highly geared financially.

Unfortunately my bank manager pulled the plug and flushed Quadramotive down the toilet.

The UAE deal was the turnaround point and resulted in the formation of AutoMaker Australia.

A good but costly learning curve. Seems I was not alone in that regard - how many small car projects in Australia have ended for want of capital.

Cheers

John H

PS There is a lot of detailed info in the garage but my eyesight makes sorting it a very slow process. I'll send you more bits if I come across more stuff that might be of interest.



http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=97783&stc=1&d=1439790292

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=97784&stc=1&d=1439790292

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=97785&stc=1&d=1439790292

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=97786&stc=1&d=1439790292

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=97787&stc=1&d=1439790292


Here are some Mk II Schuler LWB/LHD pics and info.
.
They are only snaps from a camera and a bit scrappy - will have to find a way to scan them properly.

Had to laugh when I saw the post about how the transmission coped.

No - they are not Toorak Tractors. Massive 4 sp gearbox - heavy duty axles - Quaife Locking diffs.

As I said earlier these are Schuler/Automaker Australia design - Not FF Schulers

Cheers

John H

[incisor]

more

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=97788&stc=1&d=1439790093

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=97789&stc=1&d=1439790093

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=97790&stc=1&d=1439790093

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=97791&stc=1&d=1439790093


Hi again

Here is a pic of my Mk I Schuler LWB RR.

I'll send you a bunch of the MII in a moment.

Cheers

John H


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=97792&stc=1&d=1439790093

[p38arover]

A few days back I was looking through a Vinnies store and came across Overlander March 1985 and there is an article "A Range Rover No More" about John Hoerner's FF5000 Rangie.

Also in the pile of mags was an Overlander's Custom 4WD mag, date unknown, with an article "Five-Litre Phantasm" about Asquith and Johnstone's FF from John.

Do you want me to scan and upload them?

[incisor]

Do you want me to scan and upload them?
please and thank you!

[p38arover]

Probably later tonight after I get home from a meeting.

[Scouse]

Probably later tonight after I get home from a meeting.Long meeting?

[Mercguy]

If I can find any info on where to obtain the ferguson transfer case and input adapter housing, I'll be laughing, because it apparently bolts right up to the 722.3 4 speed mercedes transmission.
Then I can recreate the 5.6 v8 version. Would be fun.

Anyone have a lead on where to look for the case and housing? probably weren't too many merc v8 schulers around in the UK though.

[Scouse]

If I can find any info on where to obtain the ferguson transfer case and input adapter housing, I'll be laughing, because it apparently bolts right up to the 722.3 4 speed mercedes transmission.
Then I can recreate the 5.6 v8 version. Would be fun.

Anyone have a lead on where to look for the case and housing? probably weren't too many merc v8 schulers around in the UK though.The guy in my eBay link from July is still advertising on eBay. I'm not sure what he has for sale from the car now though.
Wercking 1985 Range Rover in NSW | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/WERCKING-1985-RANGE-ROVER-/181891856832?hash=item2a599979c0)
Just up the road from you too.

[p38arover]

Long meeting?

My computer HDD died a couple of months back. I finally received a replacement under warranty and, would you believe, it was DOA. I replaced it and the motherboard failed.

The next bit is almost unbelievable but the new motherboard is faulty, too. I've been so frustrated by it all I haven't touched the PC for weeks.

Elisabeth is urging me to just go and buy a complete new system but have you seen the price of them!? So, at the moment, I'm limited to the iPad which is a frustrating heap of crap. I do have an old XP laptop but it is so slow it is virtually impossible to use (10 mins or more to boot up, up to a minute to swap tabs in the browser).

[Scouse]

I'll see my Dad over the weekend & use his scanner to copy the pages in the magazine I have here.

[p38arover]

At last, I have a working desktop. I got yet another MoBo and have been through the ritual of installing an XP upgrade (after finding the Win 98SE original disk) then installing the Win 7 upgrade.

Now to install all the drivers and cards for the SCSI HP flatbed and SCSI Nikon slide scanner, etc.

[Scouse]

I scanned the 5 pages at Officeworks yesterday. I'll stick them up tonight.

[Scouse]

This article was in the March 1985 edition of Overlander magazine:

[Faceplant]

There is a Schuler owner looking for expressions of interest on the Land Rovers AU buy swap and sell Facebook Group. Two Tone Red with Gold lower trim.

[bigdog]

Interesting ad on Carsales.com

1980 Land Rover Range Rover Manual 4WD (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Range-Rover-1980/SSE-AD-3698637/?Cr=11)

Advertised as:
Last remaining, one-of only four Schuler, by Automaker, built in 1984 in Aust.
1981 - Two door, soft-top convertible, with roll-bar, including boot. Reconditioned 3.9 V8

[iluvbrownale]

I admit ignorance here, but a guy I worked with has one of these and hadn't appreciated their rarity. Used as a farm hack of all things but very good nick. They worth much?

[superquag]

Buy it......

[incisor]

last one i saw that was in reasonable condition was sold for about 8k

sadly they always pop up when i am destitute...

[FFRR5000SCHULERTIM]

Hi folks. Here is my Schuler FFRR 5000 that you may have seen before. I have been tossing up what to do with it so here is the add. Thought that I should offer it up here for all to see.

Even if you're not interested in buying it please let me know what you think of it and what it might be worth.

1985 Schuler FFRR 5000 Range Rover Wagon | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Knox Area - Boronia | 1126422085 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/boronia/cars-vans-utes/1985-schuler-ffrr-5000-range-rover-wagon/1126422085)

Thanks. Tim.

[Joh55y]

I have two. "born" within 5 months. One from Alice Springs. One from Victoria. One is original and going well. other is becoming the donor. May have to put energy into the going Alice Springs one.

[JonGM13]

Hi guys, just joined and wondering if anyone has ever stripped a Schuler transfer box and more to the point the viscous diff?
The seals had totally gone! The fluids had mixed and total mess. She was sat for 6 years before I got her a couple of months ago.
there are a few questions need to ask someone who has done these!
Cheers

[Mercguy]

Hi guys, just joined and wondering if anyone has ever stripped a Schuler transfer box and more to the point the viscous diff?
The seals had totally gone! The fluids had mixed and total mess. She was sat for 6 years before I got her a couple of months ago.
there are a few questions need to ask someone who has done these!
Cheers

To be brutally honest, the only way you will get any information is to contact voith, and enquire about obtaining a service manual and part specifications (design drawings) if you have to remake the clutch housing
It would seem that nearly all the information relating to the schuler-voith (FF) transfer case would be best sought from the Jensen interceptor guys, or from voith themselves.
Ferguson Four-Wheel-Drive System Explained - The Jensen Museum (https://www.jensenmuseum.org/ferguson-four-wheel-drive-system/)

Unless you are desperate to keep the drive train in this oddball configuration, I would advise to make a choice outside of this procedure to a later RRC ZF/BWTC installation, simply on a cost vs availability perspective. If you find yourself in possession of the service manual in future, I'm sure we'd ALL love to see it here as a resource.

[Gav 110]

Thought this might be of interest
Never knew they existed

Range Rover 'Quadramotive Schuler' Station Wagon Auctions - Lot 91 - Shannons (https://www.shannons.com.au/auctions/2021-shannons-winter-timed-online-auction/KZADDL96YT4Z35A0/?cmpid=SHN:PI:NPS:EDM:20200801:2944)

37/63 transfer case, does anyone know if they can be locked?

Gav

[p38arover]

I contacted Shannons and they said we could post the images from the above into this thread (email below). Thank you very much Shannons.


Dear Ron,

thankyou for your email in relations to The Range Rover Photos. Please feel free to copy for your files.

Regards.
(name deleted for privacy reasons)
Vic Auction Sales Advisor| Shannons Auction Ltd.
40 Corporate Drive, Heatherton VIC 3202
Email (name deleted for privacy reasons)

This car is in lovely condition.

171178 171179 171180 171181

171182 171183 171184 171185

171186 171187 171188 171189

171190 171191 171192 171193

[p38arover]

From August 6 years ago!


A few days back I was looking through a Vinnies store and came across Overlander March 1985 and there is an article "A Range Rover No More" about John Hoerner's FF5000 Rangie.

Also in the pile of mags was an Overlander's Custom 4WD mag, date unknown, with an article "Five-Litre Phantasm" about Asquith and Johnstone's FF from John.

Do you want me to scan and upload them?

From October 6 years ago! :bat:


Long meeting?

I completely forgot. I will have to go through the magazines tomorrow.

[p38arover]

Well, I couldn't find those magazines but I found a number of others with various Disco 1, RRC, and Defender tests and comparisons. A lot are in old Bushdriver magazines. Does it still exist?

[V8Ian]

Ric Williams, owner of the magazine is no longer amongst with us.

[p38arover]

I see there is a Bushdriver website run by Ric Jnr. so probably can’t post scans of the articles without permission.

Dunno who owns the Overlander name as it disappeared years ago.

[steveholt69]

I had one for a month that had the green paint four door and it was pretty great, had to sell it however.

They've done a really good job on it though it looks even better now