Manual Choke 202 Holden Motor

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

Rebus my Series III 109 inch ute has a 202 ci Red Motor out of an early HQ. Over the weekend I fitted a new Stromberg re-manufactured carburettor and it has presented a wee problem. A previous owner must have for some reason fitted an old Stromberg carburettor designed for a 161 motor - that solely has a manual choke. The old 161 carburettor's butterfly valve is normally open. As in one pulls the choke lever inside the cabin and the butterfly valve closes. I checked the code on the carburettor in a Stromberg manual and it stated the old carburettor was meant to be fitted to a 161 ci motor. The 161 carburettor was knackered so I bought the new 202 ci one.

The new Stromberg carburettor is a hybrid which was designed to be fitted either with an automatic choke or a manual choke. It only came with a blanking plate on the inlet manifold and the brackets for the manual choke cable. It also has a butterfly valve that is normally closed. I bought the new carburettor off a specialist re-manufacturer and supplier and asked for it to suit the 202 ci motor.

When the choke cable is fitted in its normal configuration - pulling back towards the seat nothing happens. So the butterfly valve stays normally closed.

To get around this I have jerry rigged the cable to go from the front of the carburettor so that with the cable fully pulled out the butterfly valve stays open. It means that the choke control has to stay out for normal running and is pushed in to operate the "choke" and close the butterfly valve.

Is there anyway I can rig up a lever and springs so I can override the normally closed butterfly valve and make it normally open - while having the choke control in the cabin in the normally closed position like they traditionally are meant to be?

Or is another option to see if I can source all the parts to make it an automatic choke? Which are more reliable and efficient manual or automatic chokes?

I can live with the choke cable normally pulled out - however it is a bit of a pain.

Thanks for your help and I look forward to your replies.

Kind Regards
Lionel

P.S. Hmmm looks like the thumbnail photographs are logging me out again so time to revert to "Plan B".



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1243.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1371.jpg

[bee utey]

I suspect that you've got the throttle return spring hooked onto the choke mechanism instead of the throttle. I've never ever seen an auto close choke on a single barrel Strommie and I used to put gas conversions on absolutely heaps of them.

[Lionelgee]

I suspect that you've got the throttle return spring hooked onto the choke mechanism instead of the throttle. I've never ever seen an auto close choke on a single barrel Strommie and I used to put gas conversions on absolutely heaps of them.


Hello Bee Utey,

I checked and the spring is hooked up separately to the accelerator mechanism - well as far as I can tell. What can you see in the photographs?

Hang on the photographs are not playing nice...

Kind Regards
Lionel



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1242.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1243.jpg

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I suspect that you've got the throttle return spring hooked onto the choke mechanism instead of the throttle......I guess that would make it an automatic (or even a mandatory) choke! :D

[Lionelgee]

Hello All, most likely Bee Utey in particular, :)

I am not a mechanic, I just noticed that the arrangement of the butterfly valve was different - even with no spring connected. I then rang a friend and it was suggested that it could be because it may have come with the option of an automatic choke. I would not know differently.

Anyway, there are some other things different between the 161 ci carburettor and the 202 ci carburettor. Namely, a blanking plate held by two bolts on the inlet manifold. A small vacuum barb on the left of the inlet manifold on the 202 that the old 161 manifold does not have. The second thing is on the throat of the 202 carburettor it has a vacuum outlet fitting that the 161 does not have.

I thought the extra vacuum points and the blanking plate may have something to do with pollution control stuff or an automatic choke.

I checked the Engine Number and the 202 is an early HQ motor and there is no obvious places where the extra vacuum points may fit to on the motor.

Can anyone give me some idea where the extra vacuum lines should go and what is fitted to the inlet manifold where the blanking plate is fitted?

I blanked off the two extra vacuum points with what I had on hand at the time. I will make them prettier once I know where they should connect to; or if they need to be more permanently blocked off? Hopefully I have not offended anyone with my stopgap measures :cool:

Oh I remembered that there is a blanked off plug where I think a vacuum hose with a PC (?) valve used to go on other 202s I have seen in the past that fit just near the breather/oil filler cap on top of the rocker cover - just visible in one of the photographs below. I have no idea what or where the vacuum hose from the rocker cover should connect to? That memory eludes me at the moment!


Kind Regards
Lionel

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1365.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1366.jpg

[bee utey]

Hello Bee Utey,

I checked and the spring is hooked up separately to the accelerator mechanism - well as far as I can tell. What can you see in the photographs?

Hang on the photographs are not playing nice...

Kind Regards
Lionel





The spring is clearly hooked up to the lever under the throttle shaft. That lever is designed to increase the idle speed with more choke. The only spring required to operate the choke is a tiny thing inside the lever that the choke cable connects to. Remove the big spring off the idle-up arm and make it pull on the black semicircle thing full of holes. Also I've never ever seen a single barrel Strommie on any 6 cylinder Holden with an automatic choke, they were only fitted to the 2 barrel WW2 Strommie.

The blanking plate and extra vacuum fittings will be for the exhaust gas recirculation valve and the charcoal canister, both applicable to ADR27A engines sometime after 1976. They were never fitted to HQ's. Your manifold and carby will be off a HJ to HZ or VB Commodore, not a HQ.

[Lionelgee]

The spring is clearly hooked up to the lever under the throttle shaft. That lever is designed to increase the idle speed with more choke. The only spring required to operate the choke is a tiny thing inside the lever that the choke cable connects to. Remove the big spring off the idle-up arm and make it pull on the black semicircle thing full of holes. Also I've never ever seen a single barrel Strommie on any 6 cylinder Holden with an automatic choke, they were only fitted to the 2 barrel WW2 Strommie.

The blanking plate and extra vacuum fittings will be for the exhaust gas recirculation valve and the charcoal canister, both applicable to ADR27A engines sometime after 1976. They were never fitted to HQ's. Your manifold and carby will be off a HJ to HZ or VB Commodore, not a HQ.

G'day Bee Utey,

Sorry for trying your patience Bee Utey.

I have removed the spring. Now there are absolutely no external springs attached anywhere.

However, the butterfly valve is still normally closed. So I still have the same issue of only being able open the butterfly valve by pulling out the choke cable.

Funny how I asked the supplier specifically for a carburettor and inlet manifold for a early HQ.

My concern is that when the day eventually arrives for the roadworthy inspection that an inspector will see the blanked off fittings and think I have deliberately tampered with the anti-pollution stuff. Equipment that as you suggest the early HQ was never fitted with.

Would I be better off sourcing a locally supplied HQ and getting the manifold and carburettor off it and getting the carburettor rebuilt - locally?

I bought the re-manufactured carburettor off an eBay supplier and had to send the first one back because the top section of the carburettor under the angle iron reinforcing plate would not screw down level. Is the piece called the "air horn" because it was warped - so much for their quality control and final inspection.

I decided to buy a re-manufactured carburettor and new manifold from the same supplier to avoid problems. I figured even I could unbolt the old and exchange the new inlet manifolds and carburettors.

I connected the spring to the wrong place when I removed the lever and ball joint operated accelerator linkage and replaced it with the cable controlled one for Rebus. I did not notice at the time where both ends of the spring were anchored. One lesson learned. Thanks Bee Utey.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[bee utey]

This ebay listing

Holden HQ HJ LH Torana RED 202 Motor Carby Stromberg Carburettor | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Holden-HQ-HJ-LH-torana-red-202-motor-carby-stromberg-carburettor-/171834559471?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2802234bef)

shows a late emission HJ/HX carby with the spring in the correct position. You will have to find what other spring causes the choke to close automatically as it isn't supposed to be there. The fast idle arm should fall under gravity with the choke off.

This picture shows the correct manifold for a HQ, not 100% sure about the carburettor, but the seller should be able to advise.

Manifold AND Carby Package HQ HJ BIG Base | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Manifold-and-carby-package-hq-hj-big-base-/231609648235?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item35ed02c46b)

The carby at least has no charcoal canister connections on it.

I have no idea where you'd find an actual HQ setup at a sensible price, no doubt someone on AULRO has a shed full of them.:cool:

Edit: Oh and the plug behind the filler cap should be the engine fresh air inlet from a fitting in the side of the air filter lid, with a small foam element to stop the dust. The vented filler cap your engine has belongs to a 161/186 series and should be a flat cap on a 202 together with the correct inlet hose. it's supposed to stop the typical Old Holden oily streak down the rocker cover when you push the engine hard and fumes come out of the cap. They're supposed to be eaten by the engine via the vent hose to the air cleaner. The PCV of course fits to the back of the rocker cover and goes to full manifold vacuum by the base of the carby.

[Lionelgee]

This ebay listing

Holden HQ HJ LH Torana RED 202 Motor Carby Stromberg Carburettor | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Holden-HQ-HJ-LH-torana-red-202-motor-carby-stromberg-carburettor-/171834559471?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2802234bef)

shows a late emission HJ/HX carby with the spring in the correct position. You will have to find what other spring causes the choke to close automatically as it isn't supposed to be there. The fast idle arm should fall under gravity with the choke off.

This picture shows the correct manifold for a HQ, not 100% sure about the carburettor, but the seller should be able to advise.

Manifold AND Carby Package HQ HJ BIG Base | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Manifold-and-carby-package-hq-hj-big-base-/231609648235?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item35ed02c46b)

The carby at least has no charcoal canister connections on it.

I have no idea where you'd find an actual HQ setup at a sensible price, no doubt someone on AULRO has a shed full of them.:cool:

Edit: Oh and the plug behind the filler cap should be the engine fresh air inlet from a fitting in the side of the air filter lid, with a small foam element to stop the dust. The vented filler cap your engine has belongs to a 161/186 series and should be a flat cap on a 202 together with the correct inlet hose. it's supposed to stop the typical Old Holden oily streak down the rocker cover when you push the engine hard and fumes come out of the cap. They're supposed to be eaten by the engine via the vent hose to the air cleaner. The PCV of course fits to the back of the rocker cover and goes to full manifold vacuum by the base of the carby.


Hello Bee Utey,

Okay I had another look at the old 161 carburettor and I counted the number of springs it had connected. Two springs on the choke; one that runs parallel to the link rod between top and bottom of the choke levers. This is a very light spring. The second spring had the same top anchorage point to the light spring however it goes down to a anchor point at where a hose connects at the inlet manifold. The second spring requires much more effort to stretch than the other choke spring. The third spring runs between the highest arm of the carburettor and is anchored to the accelerator control.

Whereas, the new carburettor only came with the accelerator spring. This morning I jiggled the butterfly valve. The sod of a thing fell open and stayed that way. I then used this miracle as an opportunity to re-route the choke cable. It is now in its normal position and operates as it should! :angel:

A couple of years have elapsed between buying and fitting the re-manufactured carburettor, so it might have bound up at the pivot points and just needed to work itself loose with my moving it around over the past couple of days.

This brings me to ask a question. Does the later model HZ to VB carburettor need the two choke related springs that the old 161 carburettor had? Were they superseded? The photographs in the eBay links do not seem to show them.

Do the pivot points for the choke need lubrication and if so what with?

From your description Bee Utey about the air cleaner and the oil cap - it seems like I have more carry overs from the 161 motor! I now need to find a HQ air cleaner unit. Plus the PCV valve and pipe; plus the correct oil filler cap.

I will get it all sorted one day. The joys of inheriting the works of a succession of previous owners!

Thanks for your help Bee Utey.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello Bee Utey,

Yes the air cleaner for the HQ - HZ are like chalk and cheese to the 202's currently fitted air cleaner unit. They even face different ways. The current air cleaner has an arrow which says "Front" and this makes the spout point across the motor; and there are no connections for pipes.

The photographs I have seen on eBay that show the HQ - HZ air cleaner have the pipe connections and the spout faces towards the radiator.

Thanks for the tip :)

I am now very glad that I did not strip the air cleaner back, repaint it and buy new decals, like I was intending to do :cool:

P.S. I copied the photograph and added some arrows - am I right in where the parts featured connect up to? I do not have anything to go off other than eBay photographs of engines for sale to work out what goes where.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[bee utey]

The extra choke spring on the 161 carby looks like something added by a previous owner, it's not stock. It should only be necessary if your choke cable can't push the choke flap back open because it's too weak.

Now you need to read my previous posts more carefully. The PCV is the "positive crankcase ventilation" valve and should be connected to the area under the throttle valve, with full engine vacuum. It lives at the back of the rocker cover and has nothing to do with the air cleaner. The fitting you need is a plain 90 degree elbow and hose to the side of air cleaner where the small foam air filter element lives. This is the fresh air inlet to allow "positive crankcase ventilation" to occur, ie the inside of the engine should have some clean air into it.

Now finally, the thing on the horn of the air cleaner is the hot air intake valve and should be controlled by a thermostatic valve normally screwed into the cylinder head somewhere on the manifold side. If that thermostatic valve isn't present you should just remove the device and plug up the hole in the horn. It isn't normally found on HQ's from memory.

Oh and for pictures, type "HQ 202" directly into Google and you should see something like this:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1249.jpg

That appears to be a dead stock layout. You could easily modify the 161 air cleaner to take the fresh air hose and filter element and then it would look like that.

And here's another pic from the other side:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1252.jpg

[mick88]

You have it ass about Lionel.
That bracket should be bolted on via the screw on the rear right hand corner of the carby then pull the lever towards the firewall in order to choke the engine.
I am at work but tomorrow I will take a pic of mine so that you can see how it is set up.

Cheers Mick.

[Lionelgee]

Now you need to read my previous posts more carefully. The PCV is the "positive crankcase ventilation" valve and should be connected to the area under the throttle valve, with full engine vacuum. It lives at the back of the rocker cover and has nothing to do with the air cleaner. The fitting you need is a plain 90 degree elbow and hose to the side of air cleaner where the small foam air filter element lives. This is the fresh air inlet to allow "positive crankcase ventilation" to occur, ie the inside of the engine should have some clean air into it.

Now finally, the thing on the horn of the air cleaner is the hot air intake valve and should be controlled by a thermostatic valve normally screwed into the cylinder head somewhere on the manifold side. If that thermostatic valve isn't present you should just remove the device and plug up the hole in the horn. It isn't normally found on HQ's from memory.

Oh and for pictures, type "HQ 202" directly into Google and you should see something like this:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1249.jpg

That appears to be a dead stock layout. You could easily modify the 161 air cleaner to take the fresh air hose and filter element and then it would look like that.

Hello Bee Utey,

I found this photograph of a 202. However it may be out of a later model to suit my current HZ-VB carburettor. It is not the first photograph I found, of course I cannot find that one again. Anyway the new photo shows where the air cleaner hooks into the rocker cover. The label on the air cleaner reads 3.3 so it is a later model.

I might go track down a Holden HQ-HZ and have a look at a real life example of how things are arranged under the bonnet.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[lewy]

Mick 88 is correct,the cable holder is shaped for that[if it is the correct holder]New something didn't look right.its only been 25 years

[harry]

You have it ass about Lionel.
That bracket should be bolted on via the screw on the rear right hand corner of the carby then pull the lever towards the firewall in order to choke the engine.
I am at work but tomorrow I will take a pic of mine so that you can see how it is set up.

Cheers Mick.


what he said.

[Lionelgee]

Hello Mick88, Lewy and Harry.

Thank you for your replies. I fixed the issue of how the choke pulls out from the firewall side of the carburettor. It now works how it is meant to. There was no way that I could get the thing to operate how it should yesterday.

They say a little knowledge in the hands of fools is a dangerous thing. :p

I think I will now go sulk off somewhere and find a nice hole to hide in for a while. :angel:

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Timj]

Hi Lionel,

Best resource I have found for the red motors is OldHolden.com and they have a wiki called holdenpaedia. The page about PCV is here and there are diagrams and explanations about how it all fits together as well as photos - PCV - Holdenpaedia (http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/PCV)

I found out a lot about the carries by searching that site as well, lots of photos to be found of all the different set ups if you go looking.

Cheers,

TimJ.

[mick88]

Hello Bee Utey,

I checked and the spring is hooked up separately to the accelerator mechanism - well as far as I can tell. What can you see in the photographs?

Hang on the photographs are not playing nice...

Kind Regards
Lionel



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1242.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1243.jpg

Lionel, you should have flat washers under those nuts holding the adaptor to the manifold too. They tend to need a nip up every once in a while (perhaps annually) as do most to screws on the carby or you will get air leaks and the old girl won't idle or run to it's optimum.

Cheers, Mick.

[lewy]

And while we are going down memory lane,you may have to lower the float level for off road,they will tend to spill over and flood the engine at the time when light throttle is needed.

[Lionelgee]

Hello People with sorely tested patience,

I took some more photographs this morning - they are "After shots". I compared the new photographs to one of the earlier ones where I had to put an extra bracket on the carburettor so the choke would work. The bracket allowed me to pull the choke lever towards the radiator so that the butterfly valve would open from the position it was in when I got it from the supplier. It was the reverse of how it should be - it was normally closed. This meant I had to have the choke control in the cabin pulled out to have the butterfly valve open. Not something I was happy with at all.

I think the re-manufacturer put the choke/butterfly lever in the wrong position! :confused:

When I was moving the butterfly valve around yesterday - after I took all the springs and cables off - I felt something move. When I looked at the lever the choke cable pulls, I noticed it was in a different position. Plus the butterfly valve stayed open for the first time!

I looked at the photograph I took with the jerry-rigged choke bracket at the front of the carburettor and in that photograph the choke lever was pointing to 8 o'clock. This meant when I pulled the choke cable towards the seat the butterfly valve did not move from being closed. I had to set up the new jerry-rigged bracket so I could pull the choke lever from 8 o'clock back anti-clockwise to 4 o'clock to open the butterfly valve.

In today's photographs the choke lever is sitting at the 4 o'clock position with the butterfly valve normally open. When I want to close the butterfly valve the cable moves the lever clockwise to the 8 o'clock position.

No wonder I could not work out why the damn choke would not work properly and held the butterfly valve normally closed!

The last photograph - the one with the jerry-rigged front mounted choke bracket, the choke cable is pulled out in the cabin so in that configuration the butterfly valve was open.

It really inspires me with confidence about how well the rest of the carburettor was "re-manufactured" - not.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Lionel, you should have flat washers under those nuts holding the adaptor to the manifold too. They tend to need a nip up every once in a while (perhaps annually) as do most to screws on the carby or you will get air leaks and the old girl won't idle or run to it's optimum.

Cheers, Mick.


Hello Mick,

Thank you for the tip about the flat washers. Should they have some spring washers as well as the flat washers?

Kind Regards
Lionel

[lewy]

they will also suck the choke closed if the cable isn't adjusted properly.

[mick88]

Hello Mick,

Thank you for the tip about the flat washers. Should they have some spring washers as well as the flat washers?

Kind Regards
Lionel



No the studs are not long enough for both, and flats will suffice.
Just be diligent and nip them, the manifold nuts, and the carby screws
up every so often.


Cheers, Mick.

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I picked up an air cleaner unit off a HQ 202 from a wreckers for $10. However, it did not have the air cleaner filter clip - the part that the hose from the tappet cover joins on to. This cost as a genuine part $64 :o Oh well betwixt them both I should be on track to getting things sorted out. :)

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

If the arrowed part in the photograph is the float - is it meant to be able to be moved up and down with the air horn off?

The float is ceased and I cannot move it with my fingers neither up or down. I would think that the word "float" lends itself to the fact that the device actually moves - hmmm up or down depending upon the level of the stuff it "floats" in - for example, mmmm petrol.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[crackers]

Um yes.

As the float bowl (that word again) fills with petrol, the 'float' floats on top of it and the little tag on the side of the pivot opposite the float, presses down on a needle. Once the float is high enough ie, there's enough petrol in the float bowl, the needle is pressed into the jet, closing it off so more petrol can't get in.

So yes.
Your 'float' needs to float and it needs to pivot freely around the shaft.

[Lionelgee]

Hello Crackers,

Thanks for confirming that the float is meant to move.


Is the float being totally stuck something beyond a bit of detritus floating around in the system?

If it is beyond a bit of gunk lodging in the wrong place then it is so much for the carburettor being "fully re-manufactured, bench tested and ran hot so that it does not need any adjustment". Is it RonP38 who has the thread about having the knack for buying defective products?

What is the best way of freeing up the float so that it can indeed do what it is meant to as in move and float.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[bee utey]

Your tiny pictures don't blow up very well but I think I can see a metal tab just above the needle and seat that is holding the float down. There should be a metal splash guard in there somewhere, I suspect its been installed incorrectly. You'll need to extract the tab with a pair of pliers and work out if it fits in there without jamming the float.

[crackers]

It could be some gunk so squirt it out with some sort of cleaner. It could also be a bent tab as bee utey suggests. Just have a close look and it'll become clear. I don't know those specific carbies but the floats are usually easy enough to get out - you need to be able to to change the needle and jet. Just don't drop anything is six inches of wood shavings under your bench :angel:

[Lionelgee]

Hello Crackers and BeeUty,

I think I have worked it out. With a bit of help from the "Old Holdens Shed Site". What had happened is that the needle had come out of the seat and jammed itself between the pivot of the float chamber - where it hinges.

Now remember this is a "fully re-manufactured" carburettor that requires no adjustment". Especially since it has been "bench tested and ran hot".

All I have done with this carburettor was install it on the manifold and connected the pipes and cables on to it. I had not tinkered with the carburettor's internals at all.

How often does the needle come out of the seat and block the float valve mechanism?

Could someone please let me know which way should the rounded end of the needle fit back into the seat? Is the rounded end meant to have contact with the vertical elbow of the float. This means the pointy end of the needle goes towards the hole in the seat?

Is there meant to be a spring in between the needle and seat? Or is it just moved sideways by the float moving up and down?

Kind Regards
Lionel

[bee utey]

The short answer is that someone clearly has for some reason unscrewed the brass outer section after testing the carby, probably while undoing the fuel pipe. When screwing it back in they weren't careful enough to hold the needle and seat level or uphill while screwing it back in. Just put the needle, pointy end towards the seat, in the outer bit and carefully screw it back in. Then with your finger tip maneuver the float against the needle so it's gently closed. The top face of the float should be near level, there's a measurement in every Holden workshop manual but you should be able to find it online.

Fuel pressure opens the needle, no spring is needed.

[crackers]

The pointed end goes into the jet (the hole) so fuel can flow out around it at varying rates depending on how far into the jet the needle is pressed. Yours looks like that point has a rubber coating - all the better to seal it with.

Get some sort of manual for that carby. The float level can be set by bending that tab but you need to have the right procedure and the right measurement. It's dead easy though but important. If the float rides too high, your engine will flood. If it rides too low, your engine may not get enough fuel.

It's a pretty basic system but works well. Taking the time to get things like the float level right though, can make a big difference to the way your engine runs. Working on carbies is also satisfying (or maybe I really am crackers :angel:)

[crackers]

The short answer is that someone clearly has for some reason unscrewed the brass outer section after testing the carby, probably while undoing the fuel pipe. When screwing it back in they weren't careful enough to hold the needle and seat level or uphill while screwing it back in. Just put the needle, pointy end towards the seat, in the outer bit and carefully screw it back in. Then with your finger tip maneuver the float against the needle so it's gently closed. The top face of the float should be near level, there's a measurement in every Holden workshop manual but you should be able to find it online.

Fuel pressure opens the needle, no spring is needed.

Wot 'e sed :cool:

(he posted it while I was composing mine :eek:)

[Lionelgee]

Hello BeeUtey & Crackers,

Okay it is all back together. Now when I hold the various levers in place and shake the carburettor up and down gently I can hear the float move up and down.

I am just going out to get the battery on charge so that I can have a go at starting the engine again after I get everything back in the engine compartment. Fingers crossed for tomorrow :)

Kind Regards
Lionel

[crackers]

Fingers crossed for tomorrow :)

Kind Regards
Lionel

Can't work the fire extinguisher with your fingers crossed :Rolling:

Have fun mate.

This is why I love old vehicles, you CAN tinker with this stuff. If my MG stuffs up, it's pull underside of the dash out, remove the computer, post it to England, get it fixed, wait for it to be returned, then put the damned car back together again. I really do miss my MGB sometimes (still reckon I'll put twin SUs on the Landy :eek:)

[Lionelgee]

Hello Poor People I am trying the patience of,

Between the previous owner and myself the hold down bolt for the distributor has become loose. This means I am not sure where the distributor should be facing roughly before I start to work out where the cam is and the gap in the points begin to open. Using the vacuum advance as a guide should it be turned towards the motor, turned away from the motor or roughly at the 3 o'clock position?

This is to roughly gauge a starting point before adjusting the position to advance or retard the distributor.

At the moment the distributor is very loose so I have no idea where it should be roughly positioned before I start to set the timing.

I have both feeler gauges and a timing light with a dwell meter.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Can't work the fire extinguisher with your fingers crossed :Rolling:

Very droll Crackers .... slow clap ;)

Kind Regards
Lionel

[bee utey]

Hello Poor People I am trying the patience of,

Between the previous owner and myself the hold down bolt for the distributor has become loose. This means I am not sure where the distributor should be facing roughly before I start to work out where the cam is and the gap in the points begin to open. Using the vacuum advance as a guide should it be turned towards the motor, turned away from the motor or roughly at the 3 o'clock position?

This is to roughly gauge a starting point before adjusting the position to advance or retard the distributor.

At the moment the distributor is very loose so I have no idea where it should be roughly positioned before I start to set the timing.

I have both feeler gauges and a timing light with a dwell meter.

Kind Regards
Lionel
There is NO WAY you can tell where the distributor should be just by looking, as the gear on the bottom means it could be put in in an number of different positions and run the same. FIRST you'll have to turn the engine so that the timing mark on the front pulley lines up with one of the marks on the timing cover, preferably 6 degrees BTDC or thereabouts. THEN you rotate the distributor anticlockwise to the exact point where the points open, THEN clamp it down. All things being equal the rotor button should point to the number 1 cylinder lead position.

To find the exact position where the points are opening you can switch on the ignition, then the coil lead if safely clipped near a metal part of the vehicle will spark at that exact position.

[Lionelgee]

There is NO WAY you can tell where the distributor should be just by looking, as the gear on the bottom means it could be put in in an number of different positions and run the same. FIRST you'll have to turn the engine so that the timing mark on the front pulley lines up with one of the marks on the timing cover, preferably 6 degrees BTDC or thereabouts. THEN you rotate the distributor anticlockwise to the exact point where the points open, THEN clamp it down. All things being equal the rotor button should point to the number 1 cylinder lead position.

To find the exact position where the points are opening you can switch on the ignition, then the coil lead if safely clipped near a metal part of the vehicle will spark at that exact position.

Hello Bee Utey,

I have watched the Supercheap You Tube video and it matches what you said.

I thought that the physical position of the vacuum advance unit may give a starting point from which the finer adjustment could start from. Because I do not have a known starting point where the engine actually starts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9wZvcr3v2c

Did the Supercheap video miss anything?

Kind Regards
Lionel

[crackers]

Here you go, John Twist showing how to static time your MG... but it'll work for your Landy too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpp67aqwM2Y

[bee utey]

Look it doesn't matter where your wretched vac advance is, what matters is that you understand what "ignition timing" means. It means that the points open when the selected cylinder's lead is adjacent to the rotor button. If it isn't you either shift the leads around in a circular fashion or the vac advance to a new position and try again.

[lewy]

Just turn the dizzi all the way anti clockwise then back a quarter,it will start,you can do the rest good enough by ear,Dont have your head over the carby whilst you crank it.

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I will be blocking off the old AC Delco mechanical fuel pump for my Holden HQ 202 motor. The type of fuel pump with the glass bowl. At the very least it needs an overhaul as it was not working properly for the vehicle's previous owner and it has since deteriorated further.

Just out of interest I looked at how much a kit would cost to repair and alternately, the cost of complete new replacement unit. I found one repair kit for $129, a new complete pump ranges in price from $130 to $320 :o

There is a similar mechanical pump - non-glass bowl type for $130.

The new Facet fuel pump that I bought is similar to the old Bendix fuel pump that the 2.6 litre six cylinder Land Rover motors were originally fed by, it only cost $120. Plus the cost of a block-off plate and a gasket to allow me to remove the old mechanical pump off the side of the motor.

I am glad I am not a slave to originality and being tied to the glass bowl type mechanical fuel pump.

Yes I have already broken the Land Rover code by my buying a Land Rover Series 3 which had a 202 Holden motor fitted to it. However, I like Land Rovers and I like Holdens - :cool:

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I tracked down a supplier who was selling a pre-pollution inlet manifold and carburettor of the same type that would have originally been fitted to my very early manufactured 202 HQ motor.

I found my saved copy for the carburettor package that had be de-listed because its sale had ended. I contacted the seller to see if they still had the package and was told they still had it. This was a fortnight ago. I was informed that they would re-list the item that night. Since then multiple messages have been exchanged saying the unit would soon be listed.

Towards the end of our chain of correspondence I was told that the inlet manifold had been lost during a reorganisation of the workshop. I was then told the inlet manifold was found and they were in the process of cleaning the manifold.

I asked them to text me soon as the item was re-listed. I checked the site and it had been re-listed and no text was sent to me.

Plus just to add insult to injury the same unit that had been previously listed had sky-rocketed by $100. I contacted the crew to ask if there was a mistake in the price. I was told that they "had to buy in a new manifold so this had increased the price". Funny how they previously wrote in an email that they had found the lost manifold and were "cleaning it" :mad:

No I am not buying the manifold and carburettor off this mob of shonky operators.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I took the carburettor that I was sent that had the needle that had came out of the seat and was holding the float down to the local ENZED store. You know it was the carburettor that I specifically asked for a pre-pollution very early HQ 202 one and I was sent one for a post-pollution HZ :mad:.

This was after I sent the first one back because it had a warped air-horn cover. You know the carburettors that were "fully re manufactured and bench tested to ensure it did not need any adjustment".

Anyway, today I wanted to get a fitting to block off the superfluous anti-pollution crap. In order to make sure what I got was the correct size; I bought the carburettor with me. As I put the carburettor down on the counter one of the sales blokes spotted it for a Stromberg carburettor off an early Holden straight away.

I told him of my efforts to get the correct carburettor. To which he replied, "You should have come to see me, because I have a stack of HQ carburettors because I rebuild them as part of my hobby" :angel: I have about 10 of them tucked away in case anyone asks for one. I can rebuild them for you too"

To connect back to the Title line ... to cite Maxwell Smart - "I missed it by that much!" Arrrrgggghhhh sometimes my timing leaves a lot to be desired!!!

Kind Regards
Lionel