6 tyre rotation

[wbowner]

Today I got some new Hankooks fitted. Just drove home and they seemed very good, nothing like driving on new types, like a new tooth brush, just feels right.

I got a good price so got 6 and in the future want to rotate the the 6.

I have chased the forum for advice and think I have it. I am sure there are a number of ways to do the rotation, as long as you are consistent it should be ok.

Any way what I think the rotation would be, if I understood other posts is:


Starting tyre layout:-
T1.......T2. Front (FL,FR)


T3. ......T4. Rear (LR,RR)


T5.........T6. Second Spare(SS) Wheel carrier((WC)

Rotation

LR(T3)>>SS
RR(T4)>>WC
FL(T1)>>RR
FR(T2)>>RL
SS(T5)>>FL
WC(T6)>>FR

After rotation

T5...........T6

T2............T1

T3............T4

Did I get it right?

Rich

[RobA]

Take two off the front and move them to spares, two rears move to fronts and two spares move to rears

Call me in the morning

Rob

[wbowner]

Take two off the front and move them to spares, two rears move to fronts and two spares move to rears

Call me in the morning

Rob
Rob,
Very similar except you do not cross the tyres when moving front to rear.


Any reason why you don't recommend that. I know some people state to not cross the tyres but I have also seen posts where people so it does not matter.

I got the above from a post from Mik&Loz.

Did you mean to put the bit about calling?

Rich

[RobA]

good question, simple reply. after 15 years of 4wd tyre testing the best results come from a straight line rotation as described. Cross rotation old hat for our modern technology tyres. Sure others will have a different view but I trust the tyre engineers we have worked wit more than a vehicle handbook.

Rob

[wbowner]

good question, simple reply. after 15 years of 4wd tyre testing the best results come from a straight line rotation as described. Cross rotation old hat for our modern technology tyres. Sure others will have a different view but I trust the tyre engineers we have worked wit more than a vehicle handbook.

Rob

Rob,
It sure is a bit confusing when you look on the NET as there are so many variations of the correct approach :).

Your approach is simpler I must admit but is there something wrong with the approach I mentioned.

I am not questioning your version just trying to understand the situation better. Have you published results of your testing.

Many thanks for your reply.
Richard

PS You mentioned to call you in the morning - ?

[RHS58]

Greetings Richard.
I rotate 6.
3 live on the left side, 3 on the right. (Actually the right spare generally lives in the garage).
Spares to rears to fronts to spares.
No crossing over.
Cheers
Ron

PS have you managed to find a 6th rim yet?

[wbowner]

Greetings Richard.
I rotate 6.
3 live on the left side, 3 on the right.
No crossing over.
Cheers
Ron

Ron,
Thanks for the reply,
Sounds like you do what Rob has suggested above.


Richard

[BMKal]

Even the Land Rover dealer (Barbagallo) in Perth does not cross wheels over when rotating tyres. They did mine last service - simply swapped front & rear on the same side of the vehicle.

Not sure that I'm entirely happy with their procedure, as they do not include the spare in the rotation (I only have 5 wheels / tyres).

[wbowner]

There does seem to to be a difference of opinion whether to cross or not. The general opinion above is to not cross but if you hunt through the forum and other places they advocate crossing. My local LR service area said to cross them as I first mentioned.

I have read that crossing can cause problems with the radial tyres but have also read that this was an old issue that nolonger exists.

Some people advocate not to rotate at all.

So for us poor dummies who do not know it does become confusing.

Richard

[RHS58]

I cross rotated 5 wheels on the Prado, and found that I got "radial pull" where the car would pull left. Alignment was fine. Swapped wheels back to their original sides and all resolved.
Now that I rotate 6 on the D4, I've decided that the wheels will stay either left or right sided.
We'll see what happens.
Ron

[RobA]

RHS58 feedback is one of the key reasons not to cross over on rotation. What we do when we put the spares, ex fronts back on to the rears is choose to keep them on the same side or swap them on the axle, same applies to all tyres. To date no problems but it really does depend on tread pattern, tyre compound and a whole lot of variables. The variables I hate so we will with the D4 keep each tyre to the same axle for each full rotation and subsequent pass across the axles.

One other thing to consider and which drives our decisions is which TPMS we are using. Right now we are evaluating one from the mining industry which has external sensors. First time we have chosen this option but with a mining industry background I am confident we may not kill them. The reason for this choice is that unlike all other external sensors we have tested or had clients bring to us is that we can re-program the sensor to a different wheel, not seen that with any others on the market. By this I mean all others we have seen are tyre specific so if a RHF fails and you are not carrying another RHF sensor no information.

As well with Gordon's rims we have used short stem metal valves for these sensors as they do flex and rub the paint off. Whilst that is the lowest of my priorities off road I still want them looking their best

Regards

Rob

[scarry]

I have always crossed them over,no trouble at all,on many different vehicles.

Obviously these are not directional tyres,unless of course you want to take them off the rims and move them around.

In fact if we don't cross them over on our work vans,and just go front to rear,the left will chew out prematurely.It is the front left that gets the most wear.

[wbowner]

RHS58 feedback is one of the key reasons not to cross over on rotation. What we do when we put the spares, ex fronts back on to the rears is choose to keep them on the same side or swap them on the axle, same applies to all tyres. To date no problems but it really does depend on tread pattern, tyre compound and a whole lot of variables. The variables I hate so we will with the D4 keep each tyre to the same axle for each full rotation and subsequent pass across the axles.

One other thing to consider and which drives our decisions is which TPMS we are using. Right now we are evaluating one from the mining industry which has external sensors. First time we have chosen this option but with a mining industry background I am confident we may not kill them. The reason for this choice is that unlike all other external sensors we have tested or had clients bring to us is that we can re-program the sensor to a different wheel, not seen that with any others on the market. By this I mean all others we have seen are tyre specific so if a RHF fails and you are not carrying another RHF sensor no information.

As well with Gordon's rims we have used short stem metal valves for these sensors as they do flex and rub the paint off. Whilst that is the lowest of my priorities off road I still want them looking their best

Regards

Rob

Rob and Ron

Many thanks for the explanations. It sounds like a good way to go.

So if I Understand correctly this is what you are saying

Initial set up

T1. T2
T3. T4

S1. S2


After first rotation

T3. T4
S1. S2

T1. T2


After second rotation
S1. S2
T1. T2

T3. T4

The third rotation will bring them back to the initial set up
I think that is what you are saying

Rich

[wbowner]

I have always crossed them over,no trouble at all,on many different vehicles.

Obviously these are not directional tyres,unless of course you want to take them off the rims and move them around.

In fact if we don't cross them over on our work vans,and just go front to rear,the left will chew out prematurely.It is the front left that gets the most wear.
Bugger I was just convinced that not crossing was the way.

There does not seem to be one answer

Richard

[RobA]

No great surprise you get a difference of view when it comes to tyres. I run data on 2,000 vehicles all used in mining and rural/agriculture and the process I have described is what they all do. We're happy with how we approach this and others will be happy with a different approach

Suck it and see is my approach particularly if you are starting out on this learning journey but keep accurate data otherwise you end up never knowing where you started, where you have been and why. Hence we collect so much data

Rob

[LRD414]

I run data on 2,000 vehicles all used in mining and rural/agriculture and the process I have described is what they all do.

Rob, what's your line of work if you don't mind me asking.

Regards,
Scott

[RobA]

Rob, what's your line of work if you don't mind me asking.

Regards,
Scott

We consult in remote area risk management for fleets and operate a custom training and driver risk assessment program in the fleet space as well. We also have a couple of certified practicing engineers in the group and they and we get involved in certification and/or design of vehicle fittest including ROPS, suspension upgrades et al. Consequently one of the things I do is spend a heck of a lot of time walking around mine site carparks generally in the middle of the night checking tyre pressures and condition, assessing crash sites and reports and a whole lot of other safety related stuff related to light commercial vehicles. So mining, agriculture and all levels of gumint to start with. As well as trying to get adults to understand they actually aren't bullet proof behind the wheel either. Amongst other things that help pay the bills

Rob

[vbrab]

I have always run 2 spares as part of my rotation and each 10,000k's with oil /filter change I move spares to front, front to back and back to spares. I haven't worried to ensure whether I swap sides as I get frequent wheel alignments (3 a year) and ensure that all suspension components/bushes etc are without real wear.
Only time I have tyre wear problems is when my service person sends my car to his aligner "expert" (after changing some suspension component), and they stuff the alignment and I rip off some tyre edge on the 1650k trip home.
Has anybody been able to find out what the maximum tolerance is in tread depth difference across an axle on a D3/4?
IE. At what point (if any) does difference in tread depth impact on the AWD system?
If I stake a tyre that is 50% and have to put a new tyre on, what are the consequences (if any)?
More than a few millimetres wreaks havoc on early Volvo and Ford AWD systems, so wondering what the tolerances are for Land Rover?

[LRD414]

Has anybody been able to find out what the maximum tolerance is in tread depth difference across an axle on a D3/4?
IE. At what point (if any) does difference in tread depth impact on the AWD system?

Not exactly a definitive long term test but I have done this .... which I think is equivalent to a significant difference in tread depth.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/06/277.jpg

The diameter difference is 12mm (smaller) for the 255/55 R19 compared to 265/60 R18 assuming equal tread and equal pressure. In reality, the difference will be less because the 18's are partially worn and the 19 is brand new, never used (original spare). So the most likely diameter difference would be around 8-9mm.

I tested this wheel combination around my local streets for a few km's. I would expect going around bitumen corners a few times to be a good way to get errors if they were going to happen.

Also, I've read on the forum of someone (garrycol) running a 255/55 R18 in combination with three 255/60 R18's from Melbourne to Canberra without issue and that's a diameter difference of 25mm (smaller).

Cheers,
Scott

[Slunnie]

I do cross rotate. The vehicles are not weighted the same from front to rear or from left to right. Likewise the wear pattern on the fronts are not the same as on the rear, and hard cornering/ roundabouts take off the edges.

For me, when I jumble up the tyres (again) I put the lowest tread on the FL and the highest tread on the RR for my Disco2. I think you will however find the difference in wear more striking with a D3/4/RRS due to the independent suspension and changes in camber with steering.

[Melbourne Park]

I have a set of 6 GOE 18" wheels and tyres ... I haven't put them on yet. I am wondering whether there is a devise to allow me to easily raise and rotate the tyres and get them onto the vehicle, without effort.

Any suggestions?

[RobA]

We use a shovel. Roll the tyre and rim onto the mouth and use the long handle to slowly lift it onto the studs

Rob

[RHS58]

I have a set of 6 GOE 18" wheels and tyres ... I haven't put them on yet. I am wondering whether there is a devise to allow me to easily raise and rotate the tyres and get them onto the vehicle, without effort.

Any suggestions?

"Without effort" would mean taking it to the tyre shop and putting it on the hoist and getting someone to do it for you.

Ron

[Melbourne Park]

"Without effort" would mean taking it to the tyre shop and putting it on the hoist and getting someone to do it for you.

Ron

I didn't know they do that for free! Thanks!

I'll just take my 19" wheeled D4, with the 5 18" wheels in the back, and have a cappuccino while the boys do me that favour for me.

[Redback]

The current way we have been doing, worked well on the D2, but hasn't worked on the D4, this is how we have done it, only difference in right diagram from us, spares go to both fronts so for our next set, the fronts will not be crossed to the rear.

I don't know why it hasn't worked like it did on the D2, maybe it's because of the IFS/IRS v solid axles, can't be weight, cause there are about the same, give or take 100kg.

Any ideas will help if you know.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/610.jpg

Just to add another option, this is the VW Syncro 6 wheel rotation that VW recommend, which is different again.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/611.jpg

Baz.

[Tombie]

good question, simple reply. after 15 years of 4wd tyre testing the best results come from a straight line rotation as described. Cross rotation old hat for our modern technology tyres. Sure others will have a different view but I trust the tyre engineers we have worked wit more than a vehicle handbook.

Rob

Ditto...

And consider this... The belts and torque have been going through the tyre in one direction...

A simplified reason:- I would never run my tyres the opposite direction as the potential for them to shift and introduce a weak point or fault...

[wbowner]

The current way we have been doing, worked well on the D2, but hasn't worked on the D4, this is how we have done it, only difference in right diagram from us, spares go to both fronts so for our next set, the fronts will not be crossed to the rear.

I don't know why it hasn't worked like it did on the D2, maybe it's because of the IFS/IRS v solid axles, can't be weight, cause there are about the same, give or take 100kg.

Any ideas will help if you know.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/610.jpg

Just to add another option, this is the VW Syncro 6 wheel rotation that VW recommend, which is different again.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/611.jpg

Baz.

[QUOTE=wbowner;2388611]Rob and Ron

Baz,
I think the 6 tyre rotation diagram is what Rob was suggesting and what is below (cut from an earlier post)

Front to spares
Spares to back
Back to front
No crossing.


Initial set up

T1. T2
T3. T4

S1. S2


After first rotation

T3. T4
S1. S2

T1. T2


After second rotation
S1. S2
T1. T2

T3. T4

The third rotation will bring them back to the initial set up
I think that is what you are saying

Rich

[Melbourne Park]

"Without effort" would mean taking it to the tyre shop and putting it on the hoist and getting someone to do it for you.

Ron

And how do I get the 5 wheels and tyres to the shop without lifting them? :o

Its a shorter lift to put them on the vehicle itself ...

[Tombie]

I have a set of 6 GOE 18" wheels and tyres ... I haven't put them on yet. I am wondering whether there is a devise to allow me to easily raise and rotate the tyres and get them onto the vehicle, without effort.

Any suggestions?

Roll them into position and raise of lower the vehicle height accordingly using the jack...

Its how I taught my wife to do it... Although she can now Dead-Lift them into position :):o:D

If you have strength issues, rolling them unto position and then straightening them up... Just requires a push from then on.
Hard to describe, a video would be better...

If there's no medical reason - may be time to reactivate the Gym membership :angel:

[Melbourne Park]

Roll them into position and raise of lower the vehicle height accordingly using the jack...

Its how I taught my wife to do it... Although she can now Dead-Lift them into position :):o:D

If you have strength issues, rolling them unto position and then straightening them up... Just requires a push from then on.
Hard to describe, a video would be better...

If there's no medical reason - may be time to reactivate the Gym membership :angel:

I broke bones in my foot and its going to take time to fix. They don't want weight on it ... and bending down is an issue due to the caste.

I've thought I may make a plate for my hydraulic jack, that will fit on the circular jack plate. And on that plate, I'll attach four small wheels.

Then I can put the tyre on the wheels (which are on the hydraulic trolley jack) and then slide the jack into the vehicle. The rotate the tyre to line up, and slide the trolley jack in a bit more more ... then push.

Thanks for the thoughts.

[Tombie]

I broke bones in my foot and its going to take time to fix. They don't want weight on it ... and bending down is an issue due to the caste.

I've thought I may make a plate for my hydraulic jack, that will fit on the circular jack plate. And on that plate, I'll attach four small wheels.

Then I can put the tyre on the wheels (which are on the hydraulic trolley jack) and then slide the jack into the vehicle. The rotate the tyre to line up, and slide the trolley jack in a bit more more ... then push.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Like the idea.... In a workshop would work well...

Although it may mean lifting the vehicle far higher than normal...

I didnt mean to bend to fit the tyre... Sit down legs in a V either side of the tyre...tilt the top back towards you and 'walk' the bottom under the hub...
Now push the top of the tyre forward and use a jack to raise/lower the hub until the tyre slides on...

Cheers (hope the foot heals quickly)