S.A.D.F Series 111 S

[123rover50]

Its hard to find any info on the above.
Most of the pics of these are utes not hard tops.
This hard top and rear door are fibreglass. Note the panels in the roof where alpine lights can be fitted.
Can anyone shed some light on this or direct me to a site where these are discussed.?
Google does not give me much info

Keith

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/581.jpg (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/123rover50/media/110/IMG_1593_zpstc27rdmb.jpg.html)

URL=http://s939.photobucket.com/user/123rover50/media/110/IMG_1592_zpsaq7sgsks.jpg.html]https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/582.jpg[/URL]

URL=http://s939.photobucket.com/user/123rover50/media/110/IMG_1594_zpshhrar15w.jpg.html]https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/583.jpg[/URL]

[gromit]

Maybe try here and see if someone is SA can help http://www.landyonline.co.za/

Nice looking vehicle by the way......


colin

[pop058]

What a beauty Kieth, where did you find it ??

[Milton477]

Doesn't look anything like the SADF ones I drove in the early 80's. Most were rag tops unless fitted with an ambulance or signals body. The tail lights are right though. Most had a jerry can size box set into the sides behind the doors. Spare wheel would also have been on the bonnet. Just my recollections.

[gromit]

Could it be ex police ?

South African Police and SADF Transport - NONGQAI (http://www.enongqaipublications.com/sap-and-sadf-transport.html)


Also have a look at the Land Rover pictures in Volume 3 No 3 - Transport.

Canopy here http://car.donkiz.co.za/search?what=land+rover+series+canopy&where=johannesburg (for some reason I cannot open the full advert).


You may find it's an aftermarket canopy to turn a bakkie (ute) into van.
http://www.canopyworkshop.co.za/canopies.html




Colin

[123rover50]

What a beauty Kieth, where did you find it ??

It came via Brisbane.
I did not find it though;)

The hard top then is obviously aftermarket, fitted after it was demobbed, and before it came to OZ.

K

[123rover50]

Doesn't look anything like the SADF ones I drove in the early 80's. Most were rag tops unless fitted with an ambulance or signals body. The tail lights are right though. Most had a jerry can size box set into the sides behind the doors. Spare wheel would also have been on the bonnet. Just my recollections.

Its been resprayed and we can see where somethings been behind the doors, look a bit small for jerry cans but.
There is a spare wheel well behind the bulkhead.
Pics tomorrow.
K

[123rover50]

This load plate does not look to be original as its fastened over where the jerry can would be and the last weight number looks a bit much:o
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/553.jpg (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/123rover50/media/110/IMG_1596_zpsb8ghhizl.jpg.html)

The spare was kept here.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/554.jpg (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/123rover50/media/110/IMG_1599_zpszfwc6uze.jpg.html)

And it has the recess for the jerrys still on the inside.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/555.jpg (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/123rover50/media/110/IMG_1600_zpsfgj6t3sv.jpg.html)

Dont know if it was a soft top or had a truck cab originall but the bull bar looks the same as S.A.D.F. ones I found on Google.
SAPOL utes dont seem to have them.
Comments from those that know appreciated.
Thanks for the links Colin.

Keith

[123rover50]

Here is a pic of the engine bay.
Single overhead cam and twin SU carbs.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/508.jpg (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/123rover50/media/110/IMG_1601_zpsuh4ij3kp.jpg.html)

The gearbox is a 4 speed Santana.

Keith

[JPC]

This load plate does not look to be original as its fastened over where the jerry can would be and the last weight number looks a bit much:o
[IMG] (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/123rover50/media/110/IMG_1596_zpsb8ghhizl.jpg.html)

Hi Keith

That last number is the Combined Vehicle Mass, thus includes the trailer, both fully loaded.
JP

[JPC]

The best article I could find on the web about the IIIS is here: Series III S (http://www.lr-mad.co.uk/en/series-iii-s)

There are some inaccuracies in the article which I can clarify after studying it again.

[jerryd]

Looks like an interesting vehicle Keith, I like the look of that engine bay :)What are your plans for it ??

Maybe with that engine configuration it started out as a wagon :confused:

[123rover50]

Hi Keith

That last number is the Combined Vehicle Mass, thus includes the trailer, both fully loaded.
JP

Thanks for those photos. I was going to ask where the load plate should be when we open up the jerry can holders. That photo shows it well.
A question on the wheels. This has 7" rims but on inspection they appear to have been cut and shut. The weld is visible. Is this a feature of the 111 S or another aftermarket mod?

Keith

[123rover50]

Looks like an interesting vehicle Keith, I like the look of that engine bay :)What are your plans for it ??

Maybe with that engine configuration it started out as a wagon :confused:

Hi Jerry. Its Johns to play with. I am not taking on anymore ATM.
The SADF had them as a ute and a Station Wagon that they called a Bus.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/478.jpg (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/123rover50/media/110/IMG_1603_zpsff3r8ju6.jpg.html)

This has PU as a prefix whereas the Wagon (Bus) has BU.
The R6 is the engine.

Keith

[Killer]

The engine looks like the same one that made its way into our Austin Kimberleys, except they referred to it as the X6 engine.

Cheers, Mick.

[1950landy]

Keith that looks like a P76 6cyl motor , I am sure Leyland used them in South Africa. Motor was also used in Austin Tasman ( with single carby )& Kimbley ( with twin carby's):confused: I see Killer got in before me about the X6 engine. In Australia they had over heating problems & head gasket problems. I see they changed a few of the problems with the motor's . The fuel pump was mounted on the cam cover on the Aus vehicles & the oil filter has been moved & got rid of the plastic air filter housing which allowed dust to get past the filter seals causing engine wear.
Wayne

[123rover50]

Thats it.
That link that JPC put in post 11 explains a bit of it.

K
I read in another forum that many use Austin Princess head gaskets in this R6 engine now.
Overheating seems to be a problem.

[1950landy]

Thsese engines used the same shim adjustment system for the valves as Jaguar , you need a lot of bifferent size shims to adjust the valves. It was a time consuming job setting the valve clearances , you had to set the engine up check the gaps pull the cam out & measure the shims then select a shim to get the correct gap then reassemble the engine & check the gaps again if they wern't correct pull the cam out again & keep doing it untill you got the clearances correct. In Australia the Otto switch for the electric fan gave a lot of trouble & also thermostates failed often , they were ment when fully open a disc on the bottom would seal off the bypass but this did not always happen & the water would bypass the radiator causing over heating . I hace here a lot of service bullitans on P76's , I will have a look & see what other things they say about the engine.

[JPC]

My issues with the lr-mad article:

The vehicle designation is Series IIIS.....not R6 as many plonkers here in SA (not South Australia!) still call them.
My research of many years has not turned up a 2.25 petrol engined IIIS. A 2.25 will not fit on the Santana bell housing unless an adaptor is used and that would have meant extra production costs. None of the IIIS workshop or owner manuals indicate a 2.25 petrol engine either. The Series 3 with 5 bearing engines were still available after the introduction of the IIIS, but who in their right mind would buy the older model unless there was a huge price difference, which there wasn't. I was told that some dealers added the IIIS decals to the series III just to try and get rid of them.
The last Series IIIS was sold in 1991, according to the Auto Digest, an authoritative vehicle data publication here at the time.

Enough of that. The common overheating problem of the R6 engined Land Rovers was also prominent in the Austin Marina, but not at all in the Rover SD1, all running the same engine.

Keith, about the rims. The Series IIIS had unique rims......6mm offset and 5.5 width as standard.

The military version of the PUP had the spare wheel on the bonnet or in the back. When on the bonnet...the hole in the load box front was covered with a plate and the bracket hole in the tub-front was not there.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/348.jpg

[123rover50]

Thanks for the info JPC.
Now whats the thing on the back wheel in that illustration. It looks like the front wheel step on a Forward Control. Is it a winch of some sort?

Keith

[123rover50]

Here is a little Gold Mine of info.

pdf Land Rover Manuals | Landroverweb.com (http://www.landroverweb.com/landrover/pdf-land-rover-manuals/)

It has the SADF Land Rover Manuals etc . No 1 has how to set the tappets.
on the R6.

Keith

[JPC]

Correct Keith, it is a wheel winch. The SADF used them extensively on the Series III and IIIS.

Most of the military IIIS vehicles had galvanised chassis ex factory. Is yours one of them?

Some pics of the Jerrycan holder.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/415.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/416.jpg

[123rover50]

No this does not appear to be galvenised.
Interesting that they made them the old way with 4 pieces welded along the corners not the 2 piece clamshell type a normal series 111 would have.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/377.jpg (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/123rover50/media/110/IMG_1604_zpsfra2dywj.jpg.html)

Do you have any drawings of the wheel winch, or photos of these vehicles in service pulling the trailer etc?

Keith

[JPC]

Interesting that they made them the old way with 4 pieces welded along the corners not the 2 piece clamshell type a normal series 111 would have.
Keith

The clamshell type chassis was not used in SA other than in the RRC's manufacture. I would imagine that the tooling cost would have been prohibitive with the 110 on the way.
Did the Stage1 have a clamshell? We did not have the Stage1 here at all but I suspect that the IIIS was nothing but a Stage1 with a different drive train.

I have some pics of the wheel winch here somewhere which I'll dig out for you. As for pics of military vehicle towing a trailer....well that was srticktly forbidden, thus the distinct lack of SADF photos. I have had some declassified and will check what is there.

[123rover50]

Yes the Stage 1 was clamshell.
Note the different crossmember also.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/356.jpg (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/123rover50/media/110/IMG_1606_zpsfkll8407.jpg.html)

I was browsing other forums and someone asked for pics of SADF vehicles.
There was a distinct lack thereof.
It was said the sqaddies were searched for cameras to ensure this.
Your declassified pics would be a bonus:)

Keith

[123rover50]

My issues with the lr-mad article:

The vehicle designation is Series IIIS.....not R6 as many plonkers here in SA (not South Australia!) still call them.
My research of many years has not turned up a 2.25 petrol engined IIIS. A 2.25 will not fit on the Santana bell housing unless an adaptor is used and that would have meant extra production costs. None of the IIIS workshop or owner manuals indicate a 2.25 petrol engine either. The Series 3 with 5 bearing engines were still available after the introduction of the IIIS, but who in their right mind would buy the older model unless there was a huge price difference, which there wasn't. I was told that some dealers added the IIIS decals to the series III just to try and get rid of them.
The last Series IIIS was sold in 1991, according to the Auto Digest, an authoritative vehicle data publication here at the time.

Enough of that. The common overheating problem of the R6 engined Land Rovers was also prominent in the Austin Marina, but not at all in the Rover SD1, all running the same engine.

Keith, about the rims. The Series IIIS had unique rims......6mm offset and 5.5 width as standard.

The military version of the PUP had the spare wheel on the bonnet or in the back. When on the bonnet...the hole in the load box front was covered with a plate and the bracket hole in the tub-front was not there.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/348.jpg

Regarding the illustration, whats on the bonnet?
With the spare behind the tub bulkhead are they Pioneer tools or something?

Keith

[1950landy]

Ha Keith, here are some hard to find ones you may be interested in[bigrolf] just kiding. That trailer on the forward control looks like iy could have a diff & tail shaft.:BigThumb:
A bit more on those X6 motors , you need to make sure you wind back the timing chain tentioner before disconecting the chain or it will all end up in the sump & also you don't want the chain to come off the bottom wheel because what can happen is the chain comes up behind the wheel & gets jamed . I speek from experance, hell of a job getting the chain back on the wheel. These were not a nice motor to work on when they were in the tasman , Kimbley's & P76's.:(

[123rover50]

Yes, the trailer is a Rubery Owen powered trailer driven from the transfer box of the LT95 in the 101 Forward Control.
Uses the same drive as I have in the 6x6 to drive the rear axle.
The powered trailer was not popular as it tended to tip over the 101 on sharp corners.
K

[JPC]

Hi Keith

Apart from the gearbox X-member position and the c-section, what else is similar or a major difference between the IIIS and Stage1 chassis?

Yes, pioneering tools, a spade and pick on the bonnet, larger than the infantry personal issue, about 75% the size of the garden variety.

The IPC was compiled by Leyland for the Army and the drawing of the wheel winch is unfortunately pathetic. It seems they tried to copy the dish of the rim and pass it off as a winch. I'll look through the Series III IPS when I can lay my hands on one and hopefully there will be a better drawing.

My stash of photos does not include a IIIS with a trailer. I will have to visit DoD Archives and look through their stuff. The trailers commonly towed with this truck included a 1200kg cargo, 1270kg generator and a water or fuel bowser of 845lt capacity IIRC.

[JPC]

From the Series III IPC.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/949.jpg

[123rover50]

Thanks for the diagram, first time I have seen one.
Cant be a very heavy cable if it fits in that slot.
I got under the chassis yesterday and apart from the diferences noted the rest looks pretty much the same.
Keith