Getting an 80" going - engine rebuild

[phin]

Hi all,

With work on my IIA, III Dormobile and Defender getting close to finished it feels like time for another project - the one that got me into Land Rovers as a kid and the first car I ever drove. It's my grandfather's 80" which he had on the farm since the early 70s (always kept in the shed so no real rust to speak of). In the early 90s it apparently 'dropped a piston' and the mechanic took the head off as well as one of the conrods and pistons. It's been sitting in a shed since then, long since replaced by a 109 IIA. I'd like to get it going again but for sentimental reasons have no interest in a cosmetic restoration - I'd like to preserve it is but fix up the mechanicals, straighten the kink in the front of the chassis, get the brakes and lights working etc.

I've rebuilt engines but never a Land Rover side valve. Bearing in mind that it hasn't run in 25 years and had a problem before that, is it something where I can clean it up, hone the bores, fit some new rings and bearings and put back together, or is it better going the full rebuild with new pistons etc? Don't mind spending the extra money but I'm keen to keep it original and won't be doing any big drives so don't need to go overboard. I've attached some photos.

many thanks
Phin

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/197.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wdwGkC)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/wdwGkC)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/198.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wdwEtm)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/wdwEtm)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/199.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wvB6fg)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/wvB6fg)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/200.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wvAZvk)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/wvAZvk)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/201.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vyggaZ)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/vyggaZ)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/202.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wsPerA)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/wsPerA)

[phin]

And here's what replaced it on the farm:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/196.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/eeJP2U)IMG_3866 (https://flic.kr/p/eeJP2U)

[crackers]

I reckon if you try to be half arsed, you'll regret it and wind up doing things twice. That's not to say you need to immediately do a full rebuild, I'm just suggesting that you want to look closely at what you've got and what you want. For something like this project with its emotional connection, you don't want a temperamental pig that lets you down every time you want to relive some memories. You want her reliable and that's more important than 'originality'. Similarly, I can't believe your early memories are of her in her current condition. There's nothing wrong with rebuilding seats, bashing out some dents and giving her a coat of paint (not hard to get paint colour matched, not hard to spray it, you can even do a hard to pick paint brush job if you try). She's been sitting so you may find the rust is worse than you think so addressing that with rust converter and a bit of paint is a good move.

You don't have to do a full restoration and I understand that that's not what you want. You also don't want a heap of old cow pats, that'll just dilute the memories. You can also find that as you get into repairs, they just keep going and going.

May I suggest this route.
Forget the motor for the moment. You can choose to rebuild that in any way you want, any time you want.
Clean her up. Repair what you need to to make her driveable and comfortable.
Get the brakes, shocks, steering, electrics, all that sort of stuff right.
Somewhere in all this, you'll discover just how much this car is demanding of you and will probably have already decided what you want to do to the motor.

And remember, if you want to get her registered, inspectors look a lot more closely at ratty vehicles than ones that have obviously been done over properly (at tip I was given when doing my MGB GT).

Keep us posted mate. Sounds like a great project and just a little bit different from those of us going down to a bare chassis.

[phin]

Thanks crackers - sage advice. Brakes, suspension, electrics, trim, running gear, tyres etc will all have to be done in due course as well. I've been considering a full ground up restoration for years or even the half way mark with a brushed paint job (used some vapormatic marine blue tractor enamel on the Dormobile door tops and bulkhead which worked quite well) but I don't want to lose what makes it special - it really was this wrecked when I used to drive it around!! It's spent the last 25 years in the back of a machinery shed in north-east Victoria and apart from losing the hood canvas hasn't really changed over the years. The front guards would need considerable repair (as does the front chassis but I'd like to keep the original paint - what's left of it - if possible.

I reckon first step will be to get it under proper cover (it's been in the hay shed a year or two now) and give everything a really good clean. That way should be able to get a better idea of what the chassis is like.

cheers Phin

[klonk]

Im pricing up klonks engine rebuild, to do it properly. Here's a couple of scary bits.

Pistons $900, new cam shaft and followers $1100 (renown weakness), crank bearings $350. Then include valves, guides and machineing etc.

So Im looking to see other ways of repairing it.


Steve

[phin]

Yikes! Is the camshaft that weak that you'd be mad to re-use the old one?

I have much more experience with the 2.25 petrol and diesel and they seem much more receptive to a light rebuild. Is the 2 litre much weaker or is it just more likely to be dealt with by the purist in a ground up resto?

cheers

[gromit]

Phin,
You can see why engines tended to get replaced rather than reconditioned with the prices mentioned.

I read somewhere that in the early Series I engines everything wore out at the same time so when something needs doing the whole unit need reconditioning. I wonder why it let a piston go ? Is that a sign of bigger problems.

I've seen 2 litre engines come up for sale occasionally, maybe a wanted advert will throw up something that could be usable while you investigate the original motor.

I personally find that getting a vehicle mobile keeps up the motivation. I usually get the motor & transmission usable, replace the hoses, add some anti corrosion additive, fix the transmission brake and it then at least stops & goes. For the electrics a battery wired to the starter button & the coil (via a switch) negate any issues with the original wiring.
You can then move it around and work on it as time permits.

Lots of suppliers but the costs are getting up there....
Welcome (http://www.seriesoneshop.com/)
Land Rover Series One Engine Parts Page 1 (http://www.dingocroft.co.uk/acatalog/Engine_S1.html)
Land Rover Series 1 Engine | John Craddock Ltd (http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/series/series-1/parts/engine/)
http://www.dunsfold.com/stockroom.php

Don't forget people like 4 Wheel Drives (now in Hallam), they carry some Series 1 parts.

+.020"pistons http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hepolite-13348-Four-Ring-Piston-for-2-litre-Land-Rover-series-1-020-/331599550709?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d34df98f5




Colin

[crackers]

Flippin' dog biscuits, fitting a modern turbo diesel starts making a lot of sense doesn't it. :eek:

[JDNSW]

Camshafts - the 2.25 and the six got roller cam followers for good reason!

However, I remember that when I had a Series 1 many years ago, I transformed it's performance simply by replacing the rings and big end shells, nothing else. Not 'the right thing to do', but in those days I did not have a lot of money!

I'd be inclined to clean up and strip the engine, and see just what is wrong with it.

John

[klonk]

Klonks cam has 1mm worn off the top of a couple of the lobes, so that makes quite a difference to the lift of the valve.

Alex at the series one shop can get them re ground but he is finding it hard to get cams that aren't too badly worn.

I've found a second hand 1600 engine for sale, condition unknown . So I don't know whether it's worth the risk or do I save the money and put it into Klonks engine.

Steve

[gromit]

Klonks cam has 1mm worn off the top of a couple of the lobes, so that makes quite a difference to the lift of the valve.

Alex at the series one shop can get them re ground but he is finding it hard to get cams that aren't too badly worn.

I've found a second hand 1600 engine for sale, condition unknown . So I don't know whether it's worth the risk or do I save the money and put it into Klonks engine.

Steve

Metal spraying then regrinding might be an option but I dread to think of the cost.

DCL Surface Engineering - Thermal Spray Coatings - Arc Spray - HVOF - PTA - Flame Spray - Gas Wire - DCL Engineering Group (http://www.dcleng.com.au/index.php?f=surface-engineering)

Possibly worthwhile if you had a batch of them done.


Colin

[phin]

Many thanks all. Looks like the plan is to get the engine out and how it looks after a good clean and strip down. Might take the front guards off at the same time and see how the front chassis looks too.

The other complicating factor is that a few bits (carby, a piston and conrod, distributor, generator) are missing. Of these, only the piston and conrod are an issue. I can source a replacement but it feels like bad practice trying to mix a random odd piston in with the others if I'm going to the trouble.

cheers
Phin

[phin]

I've also put up a wanted ad for a running 2 litre on the off chance that there's one out there.

[JDNSW]

Many thanks all. Looks like the plan is to get the engine out and how it looks after a good clean and strip down. Might take the front guards off at the same time and see how the front chassis looks too.

The other complicating factor is that a few bits (carby, a piston and conrod, distributor, generator) are missing. Of these, only the piston and conrod are an issue. I can source a replacement but it feels like bad practice trying to mix a random odd piston in with the others if I'm going to the trouble.

cheers
Phin

Taking the guards off will make it easier to get the engine out.

If you do fit an odd piston you need to balance the piston/rod assemblies.

John

[123rover50]

Klonks cam has 1mm worn off the top of a couple of the lobes, so that makes quite a difference to the lift of the valve.

Alex at the series one shop can get them re ground but he is finding it hard to get cams that aren't too badly worn.

I've found a second hand 1600 engine for sale, condition unknown . So I don't know whether it's worth the risk or do I save the money and put it into Klonks engine.

Steve

When I rebuilt the 1600 Tickford engine and again the 2000 siamese Royal engine I had both the cams reground. That worked well. The 2000 sounds a little bit better than the 1600 though, it may be because I fitted new camshaft bearings to it or it may be the new liners and matching pistons. Seems to run smoother with less ticking.

Keith

[phin]

Thanks - sounds like it will be hard to know more until the engine is out and clean. will get some diesel into the bores to free up the pistons in the meantime.

[Bundy]

This guy has got some camshafts if someone is looking

LAND ROVER SERIES 1 CAM SHAFTS | Engine, Engine Parts & Transmission | Gumtree Australia Hawkesbury Area - Colo Heights | 1051283631 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/colo-heights/engine-engine-parts-transmission/land-rover-series-1-cam-shafts/1051283631)

[phin]

Thanks Bundy - will see how mine looks then might get onto the ad.

[phin]

Well it took a while but the fun begins... Engine should be coming out tomorrow morning.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/455.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/NdvxWH)

The left hand dumb iron is worse than I remember though. Do you think I can get it stretched back or will I need a new dumb iron?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/440.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/MfS9nS)

cheers
Phin

[chazza]

Do you think I can get it stretched back or will I need a new dumb iron?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/440.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/MfS9nS)

cheers
Phin

Make a new one - they are only four pieces of 2mm sheet, welded together at the corners.

Take the shape of the sides from the good one and transfer the shape to pieces of thin cardboard. The top and bottom can be tacked at the crossmember end and then bent and tacked in stages until they reach the front. Don't forget to put crush-tubes where the bumper bolts on.

Anyway, leave this job until the chassis is stripped and then you can check the dimensions of the entire chassis. I made a jig which fitted into the shackle eyes on the chassis to help locate the new dumb-iron.

If you want more detailed instructions, PM me with your email address and I can send you a Word.doc on how I did mine,

Cheers Charlie