Are the brakes really that bad?

[Silenceisgolden]

Hi all, I am posting this question on both sites - this and the Iveco site.

Are the brakes adequate for use at maximum GVM without a trailer? Being accustomed to Land Rovers and Okas I think I would find it difficult to adapt to dud brakes, but otherwise I am thinking seriously of getting into something bigger than the Defender, and newer than the Oka.

Cheers, Paul

[goingbush]

Look at it this way, The front rotors on a bread and butter BA Falcon Ute are the same diameter, but thicker and ventilated. The Iveco rotors are 297x22mm non ventilated. BA falcon One tonner ute has rear discs, and less than half the GVM of Iveco

the Iveco rear drums are 270 x80mm , smaller than land rover drum brakes and don't do anything - they don't even wear because they don't do any work.

It passes ADR but how ????

the brakes are absolutely horrendous and Iveco should be ashamed of them selves for not doing something about it.

I have been on this bandwagon for ages and looked for a brake vendor here that might help, http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/213655-any-brake-experts-vendors-here.html

BHSS in Capalaba came to the rescue and took my ideas on board and now have kits in stock,

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/31.jpg

note CNC caliper adaptor
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/32.jpg

this takes the brakes from one of the worst on the road to the level of a 2WD Daily which has excellent brakes.

[Silenceisgolden]

Thanks Don, so there is a fix, but..... it is hard to have faith in a vehicle manufacturer who would ignore a problem like that. Your video of the Iveco vs cow was very telling - have you sent it to Iveco? Could rattle their cage a bit.

It is difficult to see how they get away with brakes like that - is there a chance that your vehicle has some hidden fault? I would have thought that undersized, non-ventilated discs would result in brake fade, not near-complete lack of operation as shown in your video.

Land Rovers and Okas are looking pretty good still.......

Cheers, Paul

[goingbush]

Yes Paul, I sent the video to the Head of Iveco Daily Australia, no reply.

also my web tracker shows Iveco Italy have visited my page on Iveco 4x4 Brakes so they know too, If I was telling a lie I'm sure their legal dept would be onto me by now. Iveco 4x4 Brake Problems (http://www.goingbush.com/iveco5.html)

they definitely know the brakes are bad, but it passes ADR so they don't seem to care.

the rear brake lines fracture where the load proportioning valve vibrates, yet there is no safety recall.

Its not only my truck, they are all bad , yet the trucks are so awesome off road that the owners seem to have the attitude that , its a truck, so they expect it to brake like one and put up with it. I guess those owners have never driven any other trucks to compare. I have a Full Heavy Combo licence and have driven most types of truck and I can tell you the Iveco brakes are bottom of the barrel.

And Iveco can't pretend they don't know - they only make trucks and they know how other trucks stop.

BHSS did not take me seriously until they drove one for themselves, now we have a kit on the shelves, what does that tell you.

Don't let it put you off a great truck, the BHSS kit cost less that 2 Iveco brake jobs so its win win - you save money and you get better brakes.

[Silenceisgolden]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. The availability of a conversion to solve the problem certainly puts it in a better light - I still feel reluctant to deal with a company that cares so little for their customers welfare or good opinion, but at the end of the day if the trucks are that good.......

I guess I would always sigh for the Oka with its 4 wheel vented discs, but if the Iveco is as comfortable and as much fun to drive as the Oka I must think about it. I will try to get up to QLD to see if any of the makers can offer a test drive.

Thanks again,

Paul

[goingbush]

What you get with the Oh-Veco that you don't with an OKA is a flat front floor, no transmission tunnel , (or engine box) in the way . very spacious interior, Its as quiet as a 2wd car .

The Iveco is filling the market segment that OKA had, but the better watch out - Bremach has caught wind of Iveco's attitude and are rumoured to be tooling up for RHD with Australia in their sights
. They are the perfect compromise between OKA / Iveco .

[goingbush]

Also check out this blokes answer to the non existant engine braking. Marcus Tack is a master of lateral thinking and a genius to boot, (Iveco should hire him as a consultant)

did I mention there is no engine braking either. (PS EGR Blanking gives engine braking back - EGR Blank with 10mm hole gives engine braking & no ECU light)

Braking: electro-retarder installation | Tucks' Travels in a Truck (http://www.tuckstruck.net/truck-and-kit/modifications-and-repairs/braking-electro-retarder-installation/)

[Silenceisgolden]

Bremach - very interesting! I have often wondered if they ever would hit our shores. I had read the story of the electro-retarder in Tucks Truck - brilliant work, but these days I prefer driving to wrenching, getting lazier as I grow older. That is the only reason I would ever deflect from the Oka - I only want to play and have fun these days, not work towards it.
Cheers,
Paul

[goingbush]

Before Photos: note the backing plate which I've bent back in a futile attempt to get some cooling air in behind the rotor
this is the standard Iveco 297mmx22mm NON Vented rotor which costs $1500 to $1700 a Pair , and the front swivel housings must be dismantled to allow regrind or replacement. 6 hours labour just for a brake job .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/936.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/937.jpg

Here we have the BHSS 350mm x 28mm Vented rotor, fitted to my truck. The rotor started life as a Mercedes Rotor, as you can see you can replace the rotor simply by removing the wheel and caliper.

Iveco are not interested in designing decent brakes for their 4x4, and are sticking their head in the sand with regard to the inadequate braking, This is what Aussie Ingenuity can come up with, from dream to reality in a matter of months , kit and fitting at BHSS in Capalaba.

obviously there are no backing plates, as they won't fit - but a waste of time anyway.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/938.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/939.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/940.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/941.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/942.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/943.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/944.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/945.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/946.jpg

[weeds]

Nice work GB

[goingbush]

Very Simple rear disc conversion, ...... Iveco said it was impossible

Ford F250 rear rotors, 325mm x 30mm re-drill PCD 8x170 to suit PCD 6x170 (18mm holes ) ,
Bore center hole from 127mm to 138.8mm

Callipers are new '85 Cadillac Eldorado with integral handbrake , commonly used in 4x4 rear disc conversions ,

Caliper Adaptors are GM 5.5" (metric) to suit Ford 9"

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16473053_1250094215072366_6673124951404170523_n.jp g?oh=70d5aeb742723a53c23f2b27b9df3d79&oe=5926380D

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16603153_1250094238405697_2957609884379304060_n.jp g?oh=a79bdfdd5e7a46f724c788ce5d6585ae&oe=592EAA72



https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16864820_1263900490358405_6977484694773478832_n.jp g?oh=d4ddd02006ec843b927f6979cac14410&oe=59470415

[goingbush]

Hydroboost going in. yes that is a plastic firewall . The mounting bracket is temporary, just to see if it all fits, The Chev Master Cylinder has a much bigger reservoir, misses underside of closed bonnet by 10mm.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/681.jpg

[Silenceisgolden]

Brilliant work. Australia still leads the world in some things - it is amusing that a private individual can do what the might of Iveco International can't do!

[rangieman]

Brilliant work. Australia still leads the world in some things - it is amusing that a private individual can do what the might of Iveco International can't do!

It all comes down to the bean counters [wink11]

[goingbush]

It all comes down to the bean counters [wink11]

Hit the nail on the head there Chris,

Iveco say the Brakes on the Daily 4x4 pass ADR's and there is nothing wrong with them, They tell me they don't need fixing because they are not broke, However the Iveco Product Manager conceded rear discs would be nice but its not possible, Even it could, it would be 5 years till it got from Engineering through development to production.

But hang on, e the Bean Counters see an opportunity........

Latest development , and I can not give anything but vague details, Iveco deny this vehicle exists, but an Emergency Services dept in Australia has put out a multi million dollar tender for new Heavy Duty 4x4 vehicles & Iveco have built a new Euro 6 Daily with Eurocargo front & rear disc brakes , Dual piston rear callipers , Eurocargo Master Cylinder, etc.

It has also blown two transfer cases in 60,000km of testing , the 3rd they installed with pins to lock the Low Range circlip into place , surprise surprise , that has not failed !!

hope to have photos soon of this vehicle which does not exist.

[goingbush]

Thought I might share my ABS sensor protectors, took me a few night sleep to think of what might work.


Exposed ABS sensor a bit vulnerable to flying rocks
https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16832148_1264911940257260_3226622795387314581_n.jp g?oh=aef320bd3c84e7d25f46da96945320c5&oe=5929E4E9

Hmm , Gas Bottle might work :idea: $22 at Bunnings, Probably $220 if it was an Iveco part.
https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16997836_1269243669824087_4943449746804960563_n.jp g?oh=0ce7636471eab96d5a8a5429102dc0f3&oe=59254CC7

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16865157_1269303933151394_3687771910285659452_n.jp g?oh=1593d2c2a54a83a72e30cb70750f4bdc&oe=593A8999

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17022446_1269304613151326_6050255643979526914_n.jp g?oh=2c2be9ace515641f6f98db8fc399947b&oe=5936EF79

Good to go !
https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16998191_1269490913132696_1412316751631348387_n.jp g?oh=2b8dd417ab75469a160e1cb55929a35e&oe=5934B4B0

[goingbush]

A bit of history, got me on a path to a solution. This is factory brakes, I was towing a small 'off road' caravan you might just be able to hear the van brakes lock , the truck brakes did bugger all at 100kph , after 100m was down to about 85kmh , Both feet firmly planted on the brake pedal . Its a plastic pedal arm - I don't know how it did not snap off


https://youtu.be/OsMlKeeG7Lc


This is with the rear discs and hydroboost , from 80kmh stopping like this was impossible before - scary eh. If you see one in your mirror - get out of the way.


https://youtu.be/Q3ykHMZIIDE

[goingbush]

and on gravel

https://youtu.be/ZwfhavtAzsA